Narendra Modi and Adolf Hitler

You've got no idea what you're talking about. You don't live in Gujarat, have no first hand experience and just wank in your armchair. The reason why you can get away with far-fetched intellectual speculation is because the stakes for you are so low. Your basis for equating Modi and Hitler is purely based on what you've read in the media. You have no idea what Gujarat is about.

Sujai,

Hindu nationalism is the proper concern of Indians, not Jews living in the mountains of Israel. So, I withhold comment on what you say here. At least, so long as you leave us out the argument....

However, you do deserve praise for having taken a comment to another article and turned it into an article for the readership.

From my understanding of history, the reasons cited by you for rise of the Third Reich are correct. Germans were humiliated after World War I. The terms of peace after the war set by France and England made Germans seethe with anger. They wanted vengeance. Hitler exploited those conditions and rose to power. No matter what anybody says, one fact is certain - Germany was in dire straits after the WWI and the Weimar Republic was weak. The fault of the Germans was that they gambled on the wrong person and party to lead them out of misery and paid a heavy price later on.

Do you realize that you have trivialized Jewish holocaust by your comparison of Modi and Hitler? Have you ever stopped to ponder whether the reasons behind Modi's rise and survival as cited by various Hindutvavdis are valid - various anachronisms of militant Islam w.r.t. to the existence of a modern nation state? Nothing exists in vacuum.

Modern nation state as a construct of the western civilization is a reality in today's world. You might not like it but it is here to stay for at least another few hundred years. People have accepted the idea of nation states so much that they find it natural to identify themselves by their nationality rather than anything else. How has Islam responded to this construct? That is the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room that nobody wants to address. Until you address this you will keep cursing in the darkness but change nothing.

With the victory of Modi, Hindus and Muslims of India have come to a crossroad where both the communities have to figure out how to address each other's legitimate and illegitimate concerns within the framework of a modern nation state. Unlike you, I believe, even militant Muslims have a responsibility to uphold the basic tenets of "Indian version" of secularism as enshrined in our constitution. Putting the onus of upholding values of secularism on the shoulders of Hindus because they are in majority will not work any more. Introspection and positive action is the need of the hour not rabble rousing.

Regards,

P.S. F**k Nehru! That guy was a curse on India.

It's funny that we get ads for investing in German property on this site. I wonder which advertisers think its appropriate:)

Hinduism is religion of tolerance and peace, there was no mass massacare of chr***n in Germany, for which Hitler has to take any action or reaction against j**s. But in Gujarat what ever has happened was result of Hindu massacare occured in Godhra. It was obvious to have riots after that in those condition. Besides after 2002 what ever progress Gujarat is going through is combined effort of Hindu and Muslim, I would say Gujratis. Please stop all this b*ll S**t in media to create more difference in Gujarat and let it come to peace.
Thanks

Anindo:

Some societies have spent time to learn history so that it would not be repeated. Some other societies have tried to ignore history only to realize that they have repeated the tragedy once again.

After WWII, most Western societies and even Japan to a certain extent have taught their future generations the evils that came about in their own countries. Institutions were created, mindset was instilled, and opinions came about, to ensure that such tragedies are not repeated.

Do you realize that you have trivialized Jewish holocaust by your comparison of Modi and Hitler?

I do not think so. Comparing Modi to Hitler does not trivialize either Hitler or Modi. It does not trivialize The Genocide or post-Godhra killings.

Many a times, it makes sense to know what had happened in a distant land. How they did not anticipate what was coming and instead fueled it, only to be caught in the worst massacre ever to take place on the planet. Germans of pre-WWII just did not know what was coming. Nor did the rest of the world. Indians

Comparing the two is only to wake up the slumbering nations out of their complacency and teach them what could go wrong if they do not make necessary checks right now. It may not be Modi, it may be someone else twenty years from now. What we are creating here in India are the same conditions that are ripe for such a man (Hitler) to come onto the stage.

Have you ever stopped to ponder whether the reasons behind Modi's rise and survival as cited by various Hindutvavdis are valid ...Nothing exists in vacuum.

This is the exact notion I am trying to fight here. To condone it, then accept it and then legitimize it, saying that such actions are valid. I am taking a stand here - that no matter what the conditions, such actions are NOT valid. That we need to take a legal recourse to settle our disputes, that a state and its machinery should not participate in indiscriminate and unlawful actions that put to death certain sections, based on their identity.

Modern nation state as a construct of the western civilization is a reality in today's world. You might not like it but it is here to stay for at least another few hundred years.

Hmm.. that's an invalid conclusion. When did I profess that I do not like the concept of a nation-state?

Unlike you, I believe, even militant Muslims have a responsibility to uphold the basic tenets of "Indian version" of secularism as enshrined in our constitution.

Once again, that's an invalid conclusion. I have not put the onus on one community alone.

However, I do believe that it is the responsibility of the majority and the privileged to set examples. And I don't think we have seen such examples in India. Letting Modi go unchallenged is another of such bad examples.

Sujai has built up a story without appreciating that the world is today living under a threat of Islamic terrorism. It is necessary to fight this with a binding force which is not religion based but nation based.

I think Modi has done this well by projecting the "Gujarati's" as a community. It appears that even Muslims in Gujarat have started supporting Modi.

His success therefore is welcome and represents a resounding drubbing of communalists who are in the Congress and media.

Congress has long lost the ability to lead the country to progress and is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to our progress. It lacks vision as a party and indulges only in the "Divide and Rule" policy.

Modi has tried and is succeeding in uniting the two communities in Gujarat and it is reflected in the result.

People who still harp on the Post Godhra riots forget that there was a very strong incitement to the riot in the form of Godhra carnage and the counter blast was natural. Even if one can argue that the administration could perhaps have been stricter, in such emotion charged atmosphere it is not always possible to manage the situation as effectively as one would like to have.

We must try looking beyond the twin incidents of Godhra carnage and post Godhra riots and look to the future.

Sujai needs to develop such a positive outook than to continue inciting both communities against each other.

Vijay other.
Vijay

Unfortunately, this article repeats the long-standing myth that Hitler was a vegetarian and/or advocated such
a diet.

In fact, Hitler was not a vegetarian (nor were the top Nazis), as the New York Times'
accurately pointed out in a 15 March, 2005 "correction" of similar statements,
observing that Hitler "did eat at least some meat."

Ironically, this persistent and pernicious myth about Hitler has long been used
to try to discredit vegetarians by associating them with such an evil and violent
person, even though he regularly ate meat and fowl.

This is confirmed in numerous reliable published accounts and first hand sources,
including Robert Payne's classic work, "The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler,"
and Albert Speer's well-known autobiography, "Inside the Third Reich."

They make it clear that at private meals and those with his associates, Hitler
avidly and openly dined on such dishes as sausages, squab (pigeon), ham, liver,
and poultry.

Because of chronic health problems, during certain periods Hitler apparently
avoided meat (as well as alcohol and tobacco), and his propaganda chief Joseph
Goebbels often tried to portray him as a purist and ascetic, whose life was dedicated
to sacrificing harmful pleasures for his people. But good propaganda does not make
good history.

Payne observes that Hitler "had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages,"
and quotes Hitler's personal chef in Hamburg as bragging that the stuffed squab
he prepared was "a great favorite of Mr. Hitler."

No, Hitler and his Nazi thugs were not vegetarians. Indeed, they actually
banned vegetarian organizations in Germany and the occupied countries, and Himmler
was a chicken farmer and slaughterer before turning to the slaughter of people.

Lewis Regenstein
President, The Interfaith Council for the Protection of Animals and Nature
Atlanta, GA
>>
>>
>

Sujai..

Since you brought it up, those who do not learn from history, are bound to repeat it. But it looks like your view of history is selective amnesia and your history begins only after hindu reaction as if such reaction exists in a vaccume. It is fashionable to equate anything hindus assert to be fundamentalism, fascism, nazism, holocost, genocide and what have you and such abuse is not new to hindus, it has been tried against BJP time and time again, in fact, that has been the main currency of discourse in India from predominantly leftist establishment. The Sonia's 'merchant of death' campaign made such point of view a main election issue before voters of Gujarat - and people of Gujarat gave it a decisive response as to who is real merchant of death and who is not. Now you are essentially equating Gujaratis and hindus at large to be modern day foot solders of Nazism because they refuse to agree with your assessment of BJP, history, or lessons of history. BJP has ruled at the center, BJP has ruled in dozen states in India and quite frankly, there has been nothing spectacular or extra ordinary about it, except shrill propaganda we hear from likes of you. Get over it. Days of leftist monopoly over political discourse are over. In fact, it shows leftists can not tolerate or accommodate any other point of views and must resort to corrupting the discourse with Gobbelian propaganda. It is precisely such texture of politics in India that makes BJP even more attractive to Indians. You keep it up, see BJP go from strength to strength.

There is nothing original in comparing Modi to Hitler. Hundreds of pseudo-secular social activists,politicians and journalists have done so. And yet, as a Gujarati, like other 5.5 crore Gujaratis, my response to this insinuation and many others was to line up outside the polling booths on election day and vote for Modi. You can call Modi whatever you want. The general public will simply respond by voting for him, election after election, poll after poll. This is our way of fighting Modi haters.

By the way, is this comment true ? >>

Sanjay : "Sujai also told us that opponents of university admission quotas have strong similarities with Adolph Hitler. Sujai even went so far as to create a chart depicting such a correlation. Everybody who isn't a Left-wing wacko like Sujai is liable to be called a Hitler by him.

I think Sujai loudly advertises his own credibility -- or rather the lack of it."

Haha..how pathetic. Guess all Gujaratis are Hitlers then. 5.5 crore mini-Hitlers. :)

Sujai, relax maadi. Just as there was never a French revolution in this country, there will never be a Hitler. Fear not. Use your ability to write in a more constructive and positive manner. There is much people like you can DO with so much commitment and zeal ! Rather than wasting your energy in ranting and tilting at windmills, take up a cause- be it increasing the litracy levels or encouraging oganic farming- there are millions of choices.

Lewis Regenstein:
Thanks for dispelling the myth. I will ensure I do not characterize Hitler as a vegetarian.

But understand that this was not an effort to discredit vegetarians, or bachelors or good orators, by comparing them with Adolf Hitler.

The writer seems to be a bengali and will do well to write about the other HOLOCAUST (Nandigram) and the OTHER HITLER (Mr Budhaadeb).
He should leave complex topics which he does not seem to have comprehended. 5.5 Crore Gujaratis cannot be wrong.(Just as xx no of Bengalis cannot be wrong to have voted the communists to power in W.B.)
It is time to understand the voter in Gujarat rather than make sweeping generalization based on once own pre-conceived notions, beliefs and prejudices.
-rocky...a proud Gujarati

before Modi there was Advani and Thackeray and look at them now.I guess these fellows realise soon enough that if they keep sinning at this rate they'll end up as cockroaches or other such slimy limeys in their next birth

i said at this rate Modi will end up as a cockroach in his next birth,so he better mend his ways

kela,

I thought you dont believe in karma, rebirth and other such Hindu nonsense :)

When majority is not right

Many Indian Hindus hail the victory of Narendra Modi for putting together a Hindu brigade to fight the evil Muslims who are terrorizing this country.

5.5 Crore Gujaratis cannot be wrong.

writes one commenter.

The fact that Gujarat has voted Modi back to power with overwhelming majority is a clear sign that he cannot be wrong. If so many people voted him back, naturally he is not wrong, isn't it? If he is wrong, why would people vote him back?

Many Indians do not understand democracy. They think an electoral vote will decide everything. If a majority in a nation votes to put the minority to death, is that right?

Take Rwanda, for example, Hutus (the majority) felt it was OK to kill Tutsi (the minority) and that ended up in genocide where nearly million people died within 100 days. Can we say, 'few millions of Hutus cannot be wrong?'

Take Serbia, for example, if majority Serbians felt it was OK to kill minority Kosovans, does that make it right?

If Hindus of India vote as a majority for exterminating Muslims of India does that make it right?

Is majority right in these cases? How do we deal with it when certain majority wants to discriminate, prosecute, traumatize, terrorize, marginalize, kill, or exterminate a certain minority?

That's why we have constitution and judicial system to safe guard rights of humans even when they are marginalized, even when they are a minority, even when they are pushed to a corner. We need to take legal recourse no matter how emotional or sentimental an issue is. And that's NOT what happened in Gujarat.

What is wrong about Gujarat?

What's gone wrong in Gujarat is very simple. (I am not sure why many Indian Hindus are not able to see this.)

A state or an individual in an official capacity cannot abet, support or participate in targeted killings of certain people based on their identity, no matter what. Such actions cannot be condoned, tolerated or excused, no matter what.

When an Islamic militant blows up a train, he is considered a criminal. When is caught, he is put in jail. He is not allowed to walk scot-free. He is not hailed as a hero and voted to power.

So, when a Hindu political leader does something illegal, he should arrested, prosecuted and put in jail. He should not be allowed to walk scot-free, and definitely he should not be allowed to hold power.

Indians gone fascist

Educated and elite Indian Hindus have started to engage in a rationalization exercise to excuse Modi's actions saying that what he did was indeed right, as clearly seen by his electoral wins.
Democracy does not mean majority prevails all the time. It means it prevails as long as you stick to legal methods as provisioned by Indian Constitution and legal code. When you subvert them, even your electoral wins have to be trashed to uphold the law of the land.

Indian Hindus have gone blind in their hatred for Muslims. So much so that, they are not only ready to excuse Modi of his crimes, they are ready to hail him as their leader.

And that's when I start fearing the trends and ask myself- How long before we become completely fascist?

sorry for the double post,it was an error.
Atlantean,i don't but i was surmising on as to why the likes of Advani/Thackeray ,who are lions/tigers at the begining of their careers turn into domestic cats in their later lifes

I was wondering what they meant by Sujai's rant. Now I know.

This article is an early warning of what might be looming, I hope this warning puts us Indians, Gujaratis and the world Citizens on a cuatious alert. I hope it does not happen, but we need to guard the safety of every human, as shamelessly we did not guard the safety of Jews in Germany, which enveloped the whole world in WWII and all of us are paying for our guilt one way or the other. Let's not let this repeat this crime be repeated again.

Sujai's article is in the interests of the very Gujaratis who have criticized this article. It is in their interest to safeguard the nation and the state from ruthless humans.

A thousand Gujaratis were killed brutally, you know the words to describe it. Mr. Modi was asked repeatedly by the Television channles, he did not sound repentent, nor did he say sorry to the Gujaratis that were inhumanely made homeless, instead he was arrogant. That is one of the qualities of a tyrant, we need to be concerened with.

Hate is destructive, the patterns Sujai has described between Hitler and Modi are worth studying and guarding the humanity from a possibile disaster.

Right after Tehelka's report, I wrote an article with similar comparision, I just cannot find where it is now.

Shashi Tharoor's column addresses this.

It has distorted the voting preferences of an electorate that knows which individuals it wants but not necessarily which policies. It has permitted parties that are shifting alliances of individuals rather than vehicles of coherent sets of ideas. It has forced governments to concentrate not on governing but on staying in office, and obliged them to cater to the lowest common denominator of their coalitions. It is time for a change.

Partly agree with Sujai, and blokesbogin...

1) Gujju Society is less stratified than in any other state. Hence we see more voters chosing a more radical action than in other states.

2) Congress cannot divide gujarat as much as it usually does. So the divide and Rule strategy does not work well.

Any Indian society waaay more stratified than Germany or France. Hence a french revolution is very less probable in India, nor is a Holocaust.

What is more probable is rioting. Which is what happened in Gujarat, something like a Jewish/Romany holocaust is impossible anywhere in India unless there is very limited stratification.

The divide and rule policy of the congress inherited from their political forefathers (the british) is used to keep the votes in their favor. As seen in countless examples. This has failed to work in Gujarat. However the victory of the BJP does not mean that there would be an institutionalized violence in the state which resembles anything close to the Jewish/Romany Holocaust.

What could happen, as i mentioned above is that there could be violence and the state apparatus could be looking the other way when violence is commited against muslims.

This is why i consider this article to be a hype. Its distorting reality in a very fucked up way and not giving the root causes of why BJP keeps coming to power.

Democracy is a failure when people are not clear on what they want to achieve. This electorate wants to keep the congress out of power. It is my belief that people are fed up of the divide and rule, leftist appeasement ideas of congress. Its anyone's guess why they would keep congress out of power.

This is not fascism, its a voter reaction AGAINST congress or for that matter any pseudo secularist party :)

Agreed with Anindo.. Nehru was one of the biggest mistakes with some minimal positive points. Sardar Vallabhai Patel was a waay better choice. Its just that Nehru had his tongue stuck in gandhis a-hole :). The legacy still continues :) thru Indira Gandhy and RaHul Gandhy and Sonia Gandhy :)

Why did Modi win?

In a nation which only puts up dishonest and corrupt leaders who are blatantly hypocrite, a murderer and a criminal who is honest comes out as a winner.

Congress or Left of India holds no moral authority over BJP. Their accusations sound hollow bereft of honesty. These parties don't know what it takes to set an example to gain a moral high ground. Indian people clearly see through their charade of taking a high moral ground without having done anything in that direction. When these parties accuse Narendra Modi or his goons as 'merchants of death', they do not back it up with evidences nor do they follow it up with action. India has missed the opportunity to use one of the best revealing stories in Indian journalism [Tehelka]. History will not condone us for this.

The opposition lacks moral authority

Yes, Modi allowed the carnage that followed Godhra train incident where Muslims were selectively chosen, rounded up an killed, while the administration and its machinery, stood by, abetted and participated in that carnage.
What did Congress do after Indira Gandhi's assassination?

Its leaders went to the street in New Delhi, rounded up Sikhs and burnt them alive, where thousands lost their life, just because they belonged to an identity. And Rajiv Gandhi purportedly reacted, rather coldly, "When a mighty tree falls, it is only natural that the earth around it does shake a little..."

After those killings, a commission and its report which looked into those calculated-and-methodical killings was rubbished and completely ignored by the Congress. A book that detailed those riots was banned forever.

Even recently Congress has not acted on Sri Krishna Commission Report which looked into riots that followed Babri Masjid episode where thousands of Muslims were killed.

Indian Left has no stance of its own on such issues, and when it gets a chance to make a stand, it does a Nandigram, riddled with hypocrisies only an Indian politician can conjure up.

When the nation cannot bring honest leaders to the front, the criminals, thieves and goons who confess their crimes openly in front of millions are lauded and hailed as strong and honest over the weak and corrupt leaders who are blatantly dishonest.

Posted from E=mc^2

Very funny. Not a mention of the economic policies of the Modi Govt. Some of the policies were no doubt very sensible, eg. regular paid power instead of free power to the farmers, etc.

IMHO Milton Friedman principle of Disaster Economics can be applied very nicely here. As it can be to 9/11.

Sujai:
Comment 24 contradicts what you were saying in the whole article. Fascism is not the disease that affects india. Its communal violence. Could be directed against any community and none are as big to create something even close to facism.

you could compare Rajiv Ghandy with Modi and thus to Hitler.

Do u see how pointless it is? Do you see why i call your article a hype?

For the Gujju Hindus, BJP is the lesser among evils. Such as the Congress Thughs and the motherfucking commies.

Sujai..

The majority rule is a construct of modern democracy and nation-state whereby people express their will. That is how people are allowed to create the power structures within nation-state. Democracies can smooth when will majority is allowed to manifest and minorities accept the will of majority in exchange for protection of some basic freedoms and rights of minorities. In India, that is not the case. The minorities do not want majority to have same freedoms and rights that minorities want to demand and enjoy in India. They have made a precondition for peace and co-existance that hindus must give up their religion, their culture, their way of life and until such doctrine is enshrined in Indian nation-state, such nation-state and its national identity is not acceptable to them - that belligerent insistance of minorities created partition of India that killed millions of hindus and made many more hindus destitute in their own country. Was partition state-sponsored? Was Indian nation-state able to protect the hindus against this holocost? No. It remained mute participant and spectator. Indian nation-state was built over holocost of Hindus. Hindus treated it as a price they had to pay for building modern nation-state. Fine. Minorities got all the protections and freedoms in new nation-state. But the belligerence that majority should not have any still continue unabated. Kashmir has been burning for last several decades - hindus have been driven out from there and made refugee in their own land once again. Why? Because the minorities want hindus to have no freedoms or rights, they do not want hindus to exist or co-exist with them - that is the terms of peace hindus are offered. That is the term offered for accepting legitimacy of Indian nation-state. You would still not call it a holocost, right? Than look at what happened in Bangladesh - again, millions of hindus got butchered, raped and driven out from Bengladesh and what was their fault? That they were Hindus. Islamists were not prepared to live among Hindus in peace and offer co-existance to hindus. Hindus must cease to be hindus in order to get peace from Islamists. Taslima who criticised such atrocities on Hindus got driven out not only from Bangladesh but also from commie bastians of India - she now lives in India under house-arrest - why? Because Islamists in India think she offended Moslems for criticizing the holocost of Hindus in Bengladesh - it is increasingly clear that killing, raping, driving out hindus and banishing any expression of Hinduism is official policy of Islamists of last 1000 years and there is no break from this policy on the part of moslems. You would still not consider it anti-hindu nazism, right? Ayodhya set the litmus test - have islamists given up their jehad against Hinduism, are they willing to co-exist and live in peace with hindus, are they willing to reconcile with aspiration of hindu majority, are they willing to admit wrongs done by islamists and willing to give it up - Islamists emphetically said no. A non-descript non-functioning structure that was already being used as Hindu temple became a battle cry for Islamic jehad against Hindu majority. Wide-spread anti-hindu humiliation and propaganda followed over Hindu desire to have their place of worship restored. No moslem was killed when Hindus pulled down that symbol of Jehad with bare hands - but aftermath had moslem riots and terrorism erupted all over India, all the way to Pakistan and Bangladesh. What does that say? That moslems felt insulted by attack on that symbol of Jehad of bygone era? Islamists made it clear that they do not want peace or reconcilliation with Hindus nor want hindus to enjoy their religious or cultural freedoms in India. When train carrying pilgrims from Ayodhya was burnt down in Godhara, it was the last straw that broke camel's back. If Moslems do not want to live or co-exist with hindus in peace, than why should hindus? And both moslem and hindu reaction was on predicted lines. There have been hundreds of such riots but what makes this one stand out was the larger context within which it occurred - plus, for the first time, moslems suffered more than hindus and there happened to be BJP government at the helm of Gujarat and Center. For decades, the pseudo secularist propaganda had equated BJP with Nazis without any proof, but along came this riot that is now showcased as a clinching evidence - they are hanging on to it as if their ideological life depend on it. A riot in which both moslems and hindus killed with equal zeal, a riot in which both hindus and moslems had to flee to refugee camps, a riots where both hindus and moslems got killed by each other and police bullets, a riot that was contained within a week, a riot in which many police got killed, a riot in which army was brought in within 48 hours - became a massacre, progrom, genocide, holocost in post-riot propaganda. Elections after elections were fought on such propaganda and BJP keeps coming back with same resounding rebuttal from people of Gujarat. Unable to convince the people of Gujarat, these propagandists are now equating 5.5 crore Gujaratis to foot solders of Nazism. It is essentially a diversionary tactics - Hindus in India are what jews were in Germany. It is Hindus who are subject of Holocost and their culture that is the subject of state-sponsored demoniztion and banishment. And that is what hindus are awakening to. More you keep up this hindus-are-nazis propaganda, more and more people will come to realize who the real Nazis are in India.

Also remember a small community called Kashmiri Pundits????

take a statistics on how many of them are in Kashmir and how many are outside.

before you think of calling modi a hitler try to find out what caused the exit of Kashmiri Pundits from Kashmir.

I guess, while the US denied visa to Modi. They would probably be happy accepting the people who made Kashmiri Pundits dissapear from Kashmir.

Where is the voice of the world when Hindus are massacred?

Modi isn't Hitler, but Sujai is definitely a Goebbels in training.

Did you even happen to hear of this, Sujai:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marad_massacre

Narendra Modi's rise is troubling, because it represents yet another cunning and amoral politician using violence and targetting of minority groups to advance his cause. No one should forget the murder of the sikhs of 1984 by the "secularist" congress - this was one of the first and hugely bloody use of violence for politican purposes in indepenendent india.

Making statements like "Modi is the same as Hitler" lacks any factual basis and is based on historical ignorance. All it does is cause confusion and dissension amongst those indians who want a peaceful and prosperous india.

The real question is: how can we lessen the role of violence in indian politics? How can governance and policing be improved so that vulnerable groups, whether kashmiri hindus or delhi sikhs or gujarati muslims or bihari workers in assam can no longer be targetted???

If you guys are not from Gujarat, then just stop all this nuisance. It's a problem of Gujarat and we know how to deal with it.

Don't be jealous of Gujarat's progress and communal harmony that we have achieved currently, effort like this to disturb it will never be successful. This is not a right way to earn money for your bread. Media and people like you should concentrate on current burning issues and try to find solution to it. Everyday we are affected by terrorist blows. We have burning issue in east. We have poverty, illiteracy, fetoicide and biggest of all is corruption. Shoud'nt we concentrate on this issues rather than this meaningless discussion.

Thanks

We are concerned with what is happening in
Pakistan which is a soverign country, but it is our closest neighbour. Gujarat is a State of
India, so what is happening there has serious
repercussions all across India.

Sujai,
Modi is a state leader. The Indian constitution is bigger than him and it is secular. Gujaratis have been traditionally vegetarian while Germans are not. Modi being a vegetarian is not something weird or Hitler like. Hitler becoming vegetarian is weird. You don't understand that Gujarat is a state and Germany a country and there are innumerable differences. But if you are so paranoid to find similarities here one more to maske you happy - Both Gujarat and Germany start with 'G' :).

Kerty#27

Where did you come up with the following statements?

"The minorities do not want majority to have same freedoms and rights that minorities want to demand and enjoy in India."

"Indian nation-state was built over holocost of Hindus. Hindus treated it as a price they had to pay for building modern nation-state."

"Because Islamists in India think she (Taslima) offended Moslems for criticizing the holocost of Hindus in Bengladesh"

"plus, for the first time, moslems suffered more than hindus and there happened to be BJP government at the helm of Gujarat and Center."

Mike

Adesai,

I appreciate this solution oriented statement "The real question is: how can we lessen the role of violence in indian politics? How can governance and policing be improved so that vulnerable groups, whether kashmiri hindus or delhi sikhs or gujarati muslims or bihari workers in assam can no longer be targetted???"

I hope we can focus on this, all of the above is given, what solutions next?

Hate business is destructive, it will destroy every one, not Just one group, but all. xxit, hits the fan.

Mike

Dear Sujai,

I applaud you for writing this article, because such debates are necessary. What happened in Gujarat (not in now, but in 2002) is troublesome, and the rise of fanaticism among the hindu community is not a good sign.

As others have said, it is not productive nor conducive for proper discourse when you resort to name calling. This becomes a distraction. One should get to the roots of why he was elected again after the 2002 riots, rather than his character should be our focus. Democracy may not be a perfect system, but there is no other system that's better. So, we have to accept its results, if it has to succeed long term.

In democracy there is a political pendulum that keeps swinging right and left. That explains the reasons for BJP's rise to power, nationwide earlier, and in Gujarat now. Decades of misrule by Congress, and more importantly, decades of hypocrisy by the leftist intellectuals hasn't done India any favors. Again and again, the intelligentia of the country has failed us by not calling a spade a spade. I am not just talking about intellectuals who oppose a uniform civil code in India, but also those who turn a blind eye to the lopsided development led by Nehru-Gandhi family for four decades.

It is not too late for India. I disagree that Gujarat/Modi phenomenon is a trend that will envelop all of India and we will see a rise of hindu nationalism à la nazi Germany. We have a much better institutions today and globalization will prevent any major destabilizing trend. Indian judiciary at the highest levels and the media is relatively free and independent for that to occur.

Instead we should concentrate on why extremists (of one form or the other) keep coming to power in India. The following come to mind:

- Education for all. Too many poor people are illiterate. Our highest priority should be to provide secular education to all.

- Lopsided development. We have ignored many states and within states, many reasons far too long and pampered a few. We need to change that.

- Uniform civil code. All are Indians first and they need to respect the laws of the land. No special privileges to anyone just because they belong to a particular community.

- Better courts. Our courts are notoriously slow and corrupt (at lower levels). We should put more resources in law enforcement and justice.

Regards,

Ravi Kulkarni

The people of West Bengal elected Jyoti Basu for
a number of terms with all the hopes of having
an utopian communistic state, but they became
more desperate after each election. Even though
we can proudly say that Modi was democratically
elected, but most of the electorate might have
voted for Modi from an emotionally charged
decision and saw a super human leadership in him
while forgeting the bygone real drama of pre-meditated carnage in Gujarat.

A.S.
while i get your naive(condescending ??) view of the complex Indian socio-economics (typical of anyone associated with missionaries), I do not get what point you are trying to make.

The Gujarat verdict is more of angst against pseudo secular congress rather than support for fundamentalism. It came out more so in case of Gujarat because of limited stratification of Gujju Society.

Its dangerous indeed, and I think we need to view it as a failure on congress' part rather than a victory on BJPs part.

Let me ask you this: Assume that you were in a Xtian majority country (one which you are trying hard to achieve in India) and the government thugs kept attacking xtianity, would you not vote for a party thats slightly supportive of xtianity. Or for that matter, would you not vote for a fundamentalist xtian party, because thats the only hope you got against the current political thugs....Thats exactly what happenend in Gujarat.

Its shows more of a colossal failure of congress that makes even the moderate hindu go to the extreme and vote for modi.

Its not hindutva or any other fucking shit that you are seeing here. Its the hypocrisy of pseudo secularism that leave the moderate majority limited, extreme, choices like modi to vote for

The majority can be wrong, but their emotions are predictable in case of limited stratification.

Sujai,

You better get yourself converted to other religion. If you don't have pride in what you are.. than get the f**k out of what you are.

It is very unlikely that the BJP will win centrally. If they did that would be with the NDA. I think the NDA's were better than the present gang. On the paper the Congress look good but in action they are not secular and more divisive than BJP. I do not see what is the big fear about. If elected the Congress would have disturbed a hell of a lot more shit in Gujarat. I for one think the staus quao is good for Gujarat. And the people seem to think so too. Comparision of Modi wirh Htller is fear mongering of the lowest kind and does not deserve any serious discussion.

Sujai is trying to become the new Andy Warhol: "Everyone will get 15 minutes of Hitler infamy"

This kind of comparison is irresponsible and stupid. When you mention Nehru as one of India's great leaders, you display your ignorance. Under him, India witnessed the start of decades of Congress ineptitude an corruption. BJP has its share of corrupt polititians but Congress institutionalized it. For too long, people like you have made a strong case for electing weak leaders under the guise of acceptance and fear of showing the Muslims, who abuse the privlege of living in India and then behaving like it's not their country, that they have been given more in India than any Hindu got in Pakistan. Modi was a fairly and duly re-elected leader of the wealthiest most advanced state in India, and its presence at the top of the heap is thanks, in no small part, to his leadership. He has not cow-towed to anyone, including the US, and for that he also deserves accolades. Stop throwing around these extreme comparisons to make an invalid point.

Please write about the other HOLOCAUST (Nandigram) and the OTHER HITLER (Mr Budhaadeb).
proselytizers should stay off this discussions.
To add to #39
1)In the long history of US no black has become president. But in our SECULAR COUNTRY we have had presidents, governors, CM's. Now do you want us to give you the PM's post on a silver salver??
2)You kill a hindu criminal, no one is bothered. The moment you kill a muslim criminal,all hell breaks loose. You are called pseudo_....etc.etc., you are hitler, you are anti-minority.
3)The press highlights riots and forgets Godhra...sickening
4)Nandigram violence is all but forgotten by the left-oriented press...why not compare it to riots in gujarat??? why not blame Mr.Buddha?? The press is totally blind.
It has to be understood that politics everywhere in all countries is dominated by the majority community( UK, US, and the latest example muslim dominated malaysia, pakistan(the largest minority is xtian not hindus , can you imagine that Sujai). the earlier minorities understand this the better for them.
Let BJP continue and all this will change. We will deal with proselytizers too effectively.
-rocky....a proud Gujarati

I have never, in one thread, seen so much grandstanding, hyperbole and ridiculousness.

congrats, all, for everyone's total lack of thought and reason and simply resorting to emotional ranting on what could have been an interesting and timely discussion.

Kerty:

Democracies can smooth when will majority is allowed to manifest and minorities accept the will of majority in exchange for protection of some basic freedoms and rights of minorities.

Does the "accepting the will of majority" include targeted killing of minorities?

The minorities do not want majority to have same freedoms and rights that minorities want to demand and enjoy in India.

What freedoms and rights do minorities in India enjoy that the majority do not? And what steps do the minorities take to ensure that such freedoms and rights are not extended to the majorities?

[BTW, are you confusing sops and incentives with rights and freedoms?]

They have made a precondition for peace and co-existance that hindus must give up their religion, their culture, their way of life...

I see Hindus asking other Hindus to give up their way of life. Some of them, acting as policemen and enforcing agents, are dictating other Hindus to conform to their version of Hinduism.

belligerent insistance of minorities created partition of India that killed millions of hindus and made many more hindus destitute in their own country.

Did that Partition somehow miraculously saved all the "minorities" from getting killed?

Was partition state-sponsored?

No, it was not state-sponsored. Both the newly-formed nations tried their best to contain it.

Indian nation-state was built over holocost of Hindus.

Was there a holocaust during Indian Partition? If there was one, I missed it. You mean 'hollow cost'?

Hindus treated it as a price they had to pay for building modern nation-state.

And Muslims didn't?

Because Islamists in India think she (Taslima) offended Moslems for criticizing the holocost of Hindus in Bengladesh
??

Are we inventing history here on this forum?

What does that say? That moslems felt insulted by attack on that symbol of Jehad of bygone era? Islamists made it clear that they do not want peace or reconcilliation with Hindus nor want hindus to enjoy their religious or cultural freedoms in India.

Oh, now I get it.

When you say you want to 'enjoy religious or cultural freedoms in India', you want the exclusive privilege to break down mosques and built your temples!

plus, for the first time, moslems suffered more than hindus and there happened to be BJP government at the helm of Gujarat and Center.

It's like saying- 'Well, many Jews got burnt in the furnaces, and there happened to be Nazi party at the helm!'

the pseudo secularist propaganda had equated BJP with Nazis without any proof,

Finding 'similarities' involves reading of history. It is not bolstered with proofs. It is supported with similar trends. If one were to equate Chengiz Khan with Pol Pot (just for the sake of argument), one would find similar trends, there won't be proofs or evidences.

A riot in which both moslems and hindus killed with equal zeal,

Except that in one case, the state government and its apparatus aided, abetted and even participated on behalf of one side! THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE!

Unable to convince the people of Gujarat, these propagandists are now equating 5.5 crore Gujaratis to foot solders of Nazism.

BTW, the rest of India has still hope for Gujarat. All of 5.5 Crore Gujaratis did not vote Modi into power. There is still sanity left there - other parties got their share of vote too. Even those who voted him into power do not share the same ideology.

When Hitler was voted into power, even those Germans who voted him didn't know what was to come. Innocent and nice Germans, along with hardcore Nazis, wanted Hitler in power. I suspect the same with most Gujaratis. They just don't know what they are creating in their own state the way most Germans didn't know what they were creating in their own country.

Hindus in India are what jews were in Germany.

??

Again, are we inventing history here?

SS: So is this your emotional rant on how everyone is emotionally ranting :)

Folks:

Thanks for your comments. Sometimes, one could just debate and explore possibilities. It is not to prove whether I am right or wrong. It is to see if we can conduct a civil debate. Most of these debates confirm my belief that we are in deeper shit than what I would like to tell myself.

Modi may not be Hitler and may be he is far from it. May be, India is not ripe yet for bringing such a leader onto the stage yet. May be, what he did in 2002 is a one-off incident which he won't repeat again. That's the good news.

The bad news is that we are creating the very similar situation that Europe went through during late 1800s and early 1900s. WW-II was the point of culmination of that situation. The exit point for fueling such hatred for another and instilling such superiority complex of oneself is a blood bath. The more the pent up sentiments and prolonged indoctrination the bigger the blood bath.

Many nations who have experienced this war have gone back to check such sentiments from growing within and have put in place many harsh boundaries, some sound ridiculous - like the law which prohibits people from denying Holocaust.

India continues to harbor similar sentiments, not really knowing where it is taking us. India continues to play innocent when small flash points occur, thinking it is all OK.

Indians are myopic which is clearly seen in all their policies- either it is road building, or nation building.

They are being myopic in this context too.

Nearly 93% Indians believe that 'our culture is superior to others', topping the list in a survey conducted in various nations [available at pewglobal.com]. Also, we are very insecure about our greatness. 92% of Indians think that "our way of life needs to be protected against foreign influences."

In addition to this superiority complex and xenophobia, which we share with pre-WWII Nazi Germany, we also have a pent up hatred for minority religions in India. I wish there was a poll conducted to check the hatred for other religions within the country, and I believe we will top the list in that survey too.

I see a trend which does not bode well for India. In spite of all the prosperity, we are plunging our nation into darkness. It is like entering a long and deep tunnel. We will not know till we reach it. And I believe we are racing towards that tunnel.

Sujai:

I would like to correct your slightly myopic vision here:

1) indian myopia leads from unable to give themselves good leaders. And that could come when the society is uniform. Which is impossible in india and therefore i do not see any great leaders coming out of india. NOR do i believe that we as a nation would be a great nation. We would go far.. but i dont think we would ever be in "I am fucking serious" league.

2) Indian society is too stratified and each strata is hating each other. If you conduct the poll remembering only communities and FORGETTING the fucking numbers (as you mentioned) we would have pretty much a lot of people in the minority hating the majority too.

India would be a great nation the day we forget this minority majority stuff and move on.. and I think that day would never come. If thats what you meant to convey in this convoluted article.. then i agree with you.

but once again. Modi cannot be compared to a Hitler :) too different situations

Dear Sujai,

Just because you can draw similarities between two events in history doesn't mean present has to follow the same pattern.

What's your solution to this problem? It is easy to be negative and criticize, but is there a way forward? There is so much to criticize in India. Look at Bimaru states. Look at corruption. Look at the corruption of minds that is taking place due to mindless aping of the west. Why not talk about those too?

It is more productive to talk about how we can prevent India from becoming fascist. The solution lies in an educated and enlightened public.

I don't agree with Lakshmikanth either, any nation can become great, and India has a tremendous potential. Stratification can be overcome. Which country does not have some form of stratification? Due to increasing mobility and globalization more and more cosmopolitan culture will take hold in a few generations.

Regards,

Ravi

Dear SS,

You said:

"I have never, in one thread, seen so much grandstanding, hyperbole and ridiculousness."

And thanks for adding your some of your own to the debate.

Ravi

ya whatevs... see what I mean? this "discussion" has devolved into swearing, namecalling and threats but *I* am the problem?

hahahhahaha.

SS: Let me give you the temporal smile :):):)

So much for name calling.. what else can we say of a convoluted article and an equally convoluted commentator crowd

or... does... the ... article make sense to you?!!?????

I have purposefully chosen not to comment on the article... I see both sides here. my personal opinion is that modi is not a nice man. I would need to read a lot more to back that statement up properly. so I have stayed out of the fray.

what I do not agree with are all the people who stick up for them simply because they are gujarati.

head in the sand tactics always blow up in your face at a later date

Sujai, the problem here - as is often the case with your pieces - is that the possibly pertinent points you make get lost in the hyperbole. So this is not really about the points you raise but the shoddy hyperbole that weakens them.

A couple of points re your article as well as your riposte.

Sujai: "No, it (partition) was not state-sponsored. Both the newly-formed nations tried their best to contain it."

Anamika: Technically it WAS state-sponsored, just that the state was a colonial one that was retreating from the land in question. Should Iraq be split into three or more countries, that too shall be "state-sponsored" for all that the US denies its role.

Sujai: Was there a holocaust during Indian Partition?

Anamika: This is where hyperbole leads you. If you're going to compare Modi to Hitler because approx 1000 people died in riots - NOT at the hands of the military or police as in the case of the Nazis - then, you will end up in a corner when the same is extended to the Partition violence where far more people died.

The percentage change in demographic between Pakistan and India since, as well as well as change in population in 1947 ALSO ends up supporting the "Hindu" holocaust idea (Muslims have grown to 15% in India while the Hindu/Sikh population has dwindled to neglible in Pakistan).

I think the problem comes in when one uses words like holocaust and genocide indiscriminately. In fact, I have to say that this usage - initially by US government and media - has led to a huge desensitization amongst people around the world.

When "genocides" or "holocausts" get bandied about for millions dead, as well as a few thousand (with little impact on percentages), the words lose their meaning and importance. Any use of these ends up being nothing more than emotional rants.

Do criticize Modi and BJP all you want. But unless you are able to draw far more pertinent links than the ones above, your arguments will be quickly demolished merely on the hype

PS: Finally, Sujai, there is an idea called "appropriation" where a member of a "majority" or "empowered" community takes on the role of speaking for "others." (Look this up please). This may be for the best of intentions, but it robs those who SHOULD have a voice of the opportunity to speak for themselves. Its something that certain kinds of Indians inherited from the British and continue to perpetrate in the worst unconscious ways.

You stake a claim - through your article - to speak for the "minorities" in Gujarat as well as the Holocaust victims in the piece above, appropriating both voices. And that makes me very uneasy. Also, it again undermines your credibility. Something for you to think about?

#55,

Anamika:

When I said
No, it (partition) was not state-sponsored. Both the newly-formed nations tried their best to contain it.

I meant the riots and killings that came along with the partition.

That's my mistake. It didn't come out right.

If you're going to compare Modi to Hitler because approx 1000 people died in riots - NOT at the hands of the military or police as in the case of the Nazis - then, you will end up in a corner when the same is extended to the Partition violence where far more people died.

Anamika, relax, and reread what I wrote. I said we are creating similar situation that existed during late 1800s and early 1900s. There were many small incidents that preceded the Holocaust. I am referring to them.

(Muslims have grown to 15% in India while the Hindu/Sikh population has dwindled to neglible in Pakistan).

Was the dwindling population of Hindus attributed to targeted killing in Pakistan?

Also, are you in the business of nitpicking?

If you had read my argument without getting caught in the trivialities, you would have got the message.

But I guess, you were keen on finding holes than trying to understand the message ;-)

I have not termed what happened in Gujarat 'genocide' or 'holocaust', but I do maintain that current trends suggest that it could lead to one. Please go back and reread the article and use Control F to see when the words 'genocide' and 'holocaust' first appear.

You stake a claim - through your article - to speak for the "minorities" in Gujarat

I do not speak for Minorities in Gujarat.

I speak for myself. I am quite selfish that way. I see the trends moving in a direction where everyone would be eventually targeted, not just Muslims. The rule of the law would be subverted to make way for rule of sentiments of certain communities. I am fighting for myself and my family who might have to face such a calamity in this country.

Also, it again undermines your credibility.

Let me worry about my credibility. Why don't you worry about yours?

I am not sure if it is really about one's credibility. Some writers predicted what's going wrong with Europe before WWII, but they were dismissed by nitpickers like you who got lost in the woods for trees.

#50,

Dear Ravi Kulkarni:

Just because you can draw similarities between two events in history doesn't mean present has to follow the same pattern.

Absolutely! Yes, there is no reason we need to follow the same pattern. I wish and hope that we don't follow the same pattern. I believe that we can avert such calamities by teaching people the outcomes of our actions.

What's your solution to this problem?

My solution is simple- follow the laws. Follow the system. Even if it pains you, follow the system. If it is cumbersome, become a part of it, convince everyone around you, and then change it [I give an example at the bottom]. But follow the system. Don't override the system.

Set good examples. When given a chance, set a good example. Congress or the Left or the BJP or for that matter many of us do not set good examples. Put trash in the trash can, don't take bribes, follow the traffic rules, don't encroach upon lands when building your homes, don't flout rules, live and let live.

Don't tell me how I should live my life and I won't tell you how to lead yours. Don't measure me by my patriotism and don't measure me by the amount of saffron on my body. Let me be.

Right now, there is no necessity to unify Indians under one banner called Hinduism, or one color of nationalism as defined by the highest flag bearers. We want our local identities, our religious identities, our languages. We don't want to trade them for another.

Keep the state away from our belief systems, and for that, please set examples. And please don't target me based on my identity.

It is easy to be negative and criticize, but is there a way forward?

Yes, there is a way forward. To set right examples at every step!

We had 1984 riots where Sikhs for butchered and massacred.

We should have raised our voices and asked for the justice. We did not raise our voices. We did not protest. As majority, we just shrugged it off. We thought it was one of those 'natural reactions'. Sikhs in India lost faith in Indian Union. It led to Khalistan Movement and thousands were killed.

Now, we have another of those incidents. A government, the state and its apparatus colluded with killers in targeting people of one identity. And yet, we do not raise our voice. We do not protest. Instead, we hail such people as heroes and vote them back to power. Wrong examples!

Such wrong examples lead to wrong results. We will see more Muslims disillusioned and disenchanted. That will lead to more displeasing actions and we continue to go down that spiral and the only exit is a blood bath. I don't want that to happen in India.

It is more productive to talk about how we can prevent India from becoming fascist. The solution lies in an educated and enlightened public.

Yes. For that one has to know what could happen when we go on setting wrong examples. We need to read in our histories what happened after Indira Gandhi's assassination. We need to read how our leaders who were in power came onto streets to encourage and support the killers that targeted people of one identity. We need to read how those events spiraled into a big terrorist movement in this land where thousands of young people died.

We need to read how fascism grew in pre-WWII Europe. How innocuous it seemed to wave one's national flag and salute it and brim with pride. How harmless it sounded to create new theories that proposed how superior the people of that land were. How reasonable it sounded to target one community for all the ills of the society.

Yet, all those simple actions were hijacked by certain people who used it to create greatest tragedy of human history.

I hope your questions were sincere. My answers above are sincere.
Thanks.

Example for Ravi Kulkarni (as promised in #50):

I met someone, an Indian, raised in USA, some kind of boy wonder, who created his first company while in college, took it to a multi-million dollar business, sold it off, went to Business School in a top school, and headed a successful dotcom company as the CEO. All of it before he was 25!

Then he looked towards India. Came to India and settled down here. Joined TRAI (Telecommunications Regulatory Authority of India). I asked him why he chose TRAI. He said he wanted to influence the future of communications in this country. And the best place to start off, according to him, was the governing body which influenced it all. He worked at TRAI for few years influencing and authoring many recommendations and policies. He confessed the pay was not enough even to pay his mobile phone bill.

When you look back, you realize that many great recommendations have come from TRAI in the last few years. It has become a very organized and transparent system. When I was there sitting with a top officer recently, he asked the circular to be put up on the web right away. When the assistant said that he would do it after he sent the copies to other officers, this officer insisted that he should put it on the web first before doing anything else.

Dear Sujai,

Thanks for your replies. I believe you are sincere and this is what we need.

Your example of that person at TRAI was wonderful. There are a lot of such unsung heroes among the bureaucracy and they need encouragement. Like it or not the country is run by babus, not by the politicians as people tend to think. We should all encourage such people. If we enough sincere people in the administration, politicians can't do much. Right now any chief minister (Modi or otherwise) can find an easy replacement if he or she encounters an honest officer who is a hurdle to their agenda.

Bloggers and the media can do a great job here. There have been many such honest people in the administration; Kiran Modi, T N Sheshan, Bangalore's own Sangliana and so forth. It should become fashionable again to be honest. Your prescription that we do the right thing is exactly right.

Regards,

Ravi

Ravi...

One of the primary reason Modi was able to create outstanding development in Gujarat was precisely because removed politicians as middlemen and placed qualified a-political technocrats in the decision-making process. He removed political patronage that was source of greatest inefficiency and corruption in administering development. Politicians have been used to milking money and power by putting themselves and their patrons as chairmans, directors and other influential positions in key entities - Modi scraped such system of patronage. And that is why dissidence within BJP grew because they felt sidelined and not being consulted and not being able to peddle their power and influence. VHP and RSS had same complaints against Modi - they felt bypassed and sidelined as Modi relied on educated and qualified technocracts to set his agenda for development. Modi told them - election does not give you power, it only gives you responsibilities, earning power does not mean you take from the system, power means you give to the system - mind you, these are not mere slogans and empty rhetorics - Modi translated them into action and reality. That is why what congress could not produce as development in 50 years, Modi could produce far more in just 5 years. People of Gujarat could see and feel the development all around them. Congress tried to rebut that Gujaratis have always been enterprising and credit for development belongs to Gujaratis and UPA policies and not Modi. But people can see the differece between caged lion and free lion - they may look the same but the other one can do far more than the caged one. And that is what Modi did - he uncaged the lion within Gujarati enterprenure spirit and chanelled it for development. He could have chanelled the lion towards full throttle communalism if he was such a Sujai's caricature - but he faced the danger signs as soon as he assumed the reins of Gujarat - the Godhra and 2002 riots were meant to distablise his up-start administration - he had just replaced a dissidence ridden Kashubhai administration, and some people miscalculated that strike like Godhra would cripple Modi and break down BJP in Gujarat like earthqauke did to Keshubhai. Modi had never ran a government before, never held an elected office before, was never a politician before - and he was thrust into highest political position of running a hugely inefficient government of a highly developed state and within 2 months, even before he could settle in his chair, Godhra and post-Godhara riots landed on his lap - and just as earthquake saw inept administration that was very slow and haphazard initially but mobilized the greatest relief and rehabilitation effort in the history of any disaster in India - however anti-BJP media was mainly focussed on what was not being done or done too late and how badly it was being done and how much people have suffered - relentless media and its selective focus was successful in wounding Keshubhai administration. Modi administration too faced same hurdles when it faced 2002 riots - inept administration within 24 hours but massive subsequent mobilization that contained the riots in matter of days. Anti-BJP media as usual selectively focused mainly on what was not being done and how badly it was being done and how much people suffered in riots. There were stories of heroism, people helping people, people saving lives, administration pulling all stops to come to the rescue of people and stopping the violence - but none made it into media coverage. Record number of people got killed by police bullets, record number of people were arrested and majority of them were Hindus. There were Hindu refugee camps too as Hindus too had to flee moslem violence. Many Hindus too got raped and killed by Moslems. Widely circulated Gujarati news papers cronicled many such events as they occured - but propaganda in english media outside Gujarat took on life of its own that had no basis in reality - it constructed its own reality by focusing selectively only on what some in administration did or did not do, and what happened to only one community, what happened to only some families - people of Gujarat took such selective and distorted characterization of 2002 events as insulting and malicious - and Modi was able to translate that collective hurt into quest for Gujarati pride. It allowed Modi to take that campaign for Gujarati pride into positive directions - for development of Gujarat. In a way, what modi was able to achieve on development front was precisely because Indian media kept insulting the Gujarat's pride world wide - it helped Gujaratis get organized world-wide behind Modi to develop Gujarat. Modi aptly says, let others throw mud at him, for his lotus blooms even more in mud.

Dear Mr.Sujai, your frankness in writing the article and answering the comments is admirable. Your case of "Majority Not Being Right" is thought provoking. I think this is not the case of majority having some deep routed scorn against the minority. Neither it looks like the minority's failure to revenge the actions of the majority. It looks more like "I Dont Care" attitude of Indians (Why single out Gujarat?). First, we dont understand what is the problem, and why we need to get rid of the problem.We dont even accept that there is a problem, in most of the cases. If there is a law and order problem in any part of the nation, and people there (and elsewhere in the nation) say "I don't care", we lose our confidence in the judiciary and the executive wing which needs to maintain the law and order. In case of India, the general public have already lost their confidence as far as these two bodies are concerned. What ever has happened in Gujarat and elsewhere in this nation is a direct reflection of this loss of confidence. When we analyse the current problems facing us, its deep routed causes have to be analysed even more - which both public and the media seem to continuously and comfortably ignore. What if Congress had come to power instead of BJP? Would the people get the confidence back in the judiciary and law and order mechanisms? As far as I can see, the answer seems to be 'No'. Right now, the first step (in my point of view - please feel free to critisize me if you feel otherwise) is to atleast accept that we have lost our confidence in the mechanisms that are required to run the state/nation efficiently - both the political as well as the executive wings of the nation. This is the first important step as we could proceed to make amends only if we first accept that there is a problem. How we need to solve it comes later, and believe me, the solution portion is very easy when compared to the acceptance portion.

Destination Infinity.

Anamika..

I do not think it is accurate to say partition was state-sponsored but British were to be blamed. British were only care-takers than and worked closely with heir-apparent of both nation-states and British did only what both sides had agreed and consented. Both Congress and Moslem League accepted the partition without providing for any state-sponsored mechanism for protection to their people - what were they thinking? That Hindus and moslems will exchange flowers and celebrate with fire crackers now that both have their own long-fought independent nation-states? That fasting, prayers and speeches will guarantee the safety of people against butchers? Responsibility for safety and welfare of lives due to partition was squarely on the shoulder of those who had agreed to partition India and assumed power over partitioned nation-states - how could they agree to partition a nation before making sure there is mechanism in place to protect lives affected by partition? It amounted to criminally looking the other way and abrogating the responsibility of ensuring safe exodus and protection of people that were on the wrong side of fence for no fault of theirs. That is more than criminal, it is genocidal of epic proportions. We are not talking about few thousand people here - we are talking about millions of people here. Show me how many people were punished for those crimes and how many were held accountable at highest level? Nation-state let them off the hook. That colosal holocuast remain unpunished and unaccountable to victims till date. Compare that to assassination of Gandhi - over 60,000 people were arrested and thrown in jail for that one crime. If Indian nation-state could do that, why not holding those who created Hindu holocaust accountable? If riots can be held accountable at highest level of ideology-bearers and nation-state, why not countless anti-hindu genocides?

On a side footnote unrelated to your comment:

Sindhis, numbering in millions, like kashmiri pandits of recent times, were made permanent refugees in India - thanks to Gujaratis, that Sindhis like Parsis of earlier ethnic exodus by Islamists, were adopted whole-heartedly by Gujaratis as their own and they are now at the forefront of being prosperous Gujaratis. Moslems in Gujarat too are at the forefront of development compared to moslems in rest of India - if they can come out their Jehadi shell, they too can be as prosperous as sindhis and Parsis and become role model of development for rest of moslems in India. And that is what Modi has promised - an inclusive development - but not thru prism of religion - not more Urdu, more reservations, more madrassas, more hajj subsidies, more mosques, more power to mullahs - Moslems will not be offered development because they are moslems - no targeted development for any community - they will get development as Gujaratis, not as moslems. That is a Modi development paradigm that seeks to transcend narrow focus of caste and creed but focuses on development of Gujarat as a whole - Moslems who come forward for development of Gujarat, they would get rewarded, those who don't will be left behind - that is the definition of inclusive development - as simple as that.

The NRIs who are supporting Modi surely do not want a Modi like ideology/agenda on in the countries they are living. They want secular democracy for themselves, but not for those living in Gujarat?

Kumar..

Most NRI Gujaratis are business-minded, development-oriented and against Islamic terrorism and do support such policies in their respective host countries. So they see no contradiction in supporting Modi's agenda.

Gujaratis also have great respect for positive secularism - unlike others, Gujaratis do not see any contradiction between secularism and hindutva - because Hinduism is built on liberal and non-fundamentalist principles and its way of life(Hindutva aka Hindu-ness aka essence of being Hindu) is built around accommodating diversity of pursuits and plurality of practices in every sphere of life - that is why asserting the hegemony of such way of life is treated as non-theocratic, anti-fundamentalist, secular and tolerant and its ire merely directed at the antithesis as it should be. Gujaratis do not see any contradiction there.

Kerty,

>> Most NRI Gujaratis are business-minded, development-oriented and against Islamic terrorism and do support such policies in their respective host countries. So they see no contradiction in supporting Modi's agenda.

But you have not stated the Modi ideology/agenda fully in the above statement. One need not believe in rioting, indulge in propaganda of teaching lessons to non-hindus etc to believe in development?

>> Gujaratis also have great respect for positive secularism - unlike others, Gujaratis do not see any contradiction between secularism and hindutva - because Hinduism is built on liberal and non-fundamentalist principles and its way of life(Hindutva aka Hindu-ness aka essence of being Hindu) is built around accommodating diversity of pursuits and plurality of practices in every sphere of life - that is why asserting the hegemony of such way of life is treated as non-theocratic, anti-fundamentalist, secular and tolerant and its ire merely directed at the antithesis as it should be. Gujaratis do not see any contradiction there.

So, you are saying that there is no difference between secular humanism/democracy and Modi's ideology/agenda/actions?