Desicritics Comments on Names of the Romani People

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Comment by Escu

Sun, 4 May 2008 06:14:34 EDT

Oh man.. where should I start? First of all I want to say that i am a Romanian, but not an "Adrian-like" Romanian. What Alin said about us is unfortunately mostly true, a lot of Romanians today are violent (in all ways), impulsive and have litle respect for logic. We were never a tolerant people like the nationalistic legends say, but today the Romanian society is in a prolonged an deep crisis and we seem to look more and more like the "gypsy" stereotype. I do hope though that with the economic growth that started to happen people will become more "relaxed" and some basic human values will come back into our lives. I also hope that people will realize that not all Romanians are like Adrian and that as usually "the dogs" are the loudest. About the Rom/Romani matter, I don't know what is the etymology of the word, but i now that the word is not new and i know that not even the fight for its recognition its not new (definitely older than 1971). For example, a simple investigation on the net shows that in 1933 appeared "Uniunea Generala a Romilor din Romania (General Union of Romanian Roma)". Even the article of Delia Grigore posted by Adrian shows that if the term Rom comes from Dom that happened long time ago and happened naturally. Unlike the change from Ruman/R�m�n into Rom�n done by Romanian nationalists in the 19 century. Not to mention that in fact we were mostly known by the exonym "wlach/walach" that also had pejorative connotations. Even today some Magyars call us "olah" in a derogatory way. It is true that Romani resembles Romanian, but there are many cases in which different ethnic groups have similar names and nobody confuses them. I, as a Romanian, never met any foreigner who would take us for Romanies. The only Romanians that complain about this are Romanians that bleary hate the Roma (not few) and who just search for excuses to express their hate. The idea that the Roma want to replace us it is obviously ridiculous and I hope that you don't think that most Romanians are that "smart" as Adrian. In fact after the slavery abolition in the 19 century the most common movement for Romanies was that out of Romania. And in these days more than ever. What is more serious is that today many Romanians try to put the entire blame for the country's bad image on the Romanies. They have started to call all Romanian criminals "tigani (gypsyes)" regardless of their true ethnicity, without even thinking that this might create the idea that the Romanians are "gypsyes". And yet they shout that they don't want to be confused with the "gypsies". One very good example is the one posted by Alin: Doina Matei. An ethnic Romanian girl who killed an old Italian lady, and that is called everywhere "gypsy" by Romanians. One cannot say how many of the criminals are ethnic Romanian and how many are ethnic Romani from the news, but one thing you can tell for sure is that Romanians commit more serious crimes than the Romanies (like the Romanian guy that killed an Italian couple with a hammer some days ago!!!) @Ruvy. As far as i know the etymology of word "Hebrew" is still disputed. In the Romanian language the word "evreu (Hebrew)" is also used contemporany instead of "jidan (Jew)" who is very offensive. The mechanisms by which various names for the same people get positive or negative connotations can vary from place to place. @Stan. You said that "only about two dozen "delegates", apart from a few observers, are said to have taken the far-reaching decision for several millions of Gypsies worldwide". But how many Rumanians decided that we should call ourself Rom�ni instead of Rumani/R�m�ni, vlachs/walachs? And nobody in knowledge does not attach the name Rom to the Lom or Dom groups. @smallsquirrel. Unfortunately, not only Ceausescu was a bloody crazed Romanian, we had lots of them from old times to new, from "left" to "right". What is worse is that many of them are considered "heroes". @Adrian. If you have "gypsy and jew friends" bring one here and let him tell us that he is your friend.. in his own language. This will really show us...

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Comment by Adrian

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:53:40 EST

@ Quoting Madalin Voicu a famous gypsy from Romania : My dad was a tsigan(gyspy) not a rom, thus i'm a tsigan(gyspy) and not a rom.

Comment by Adrian

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:35:48 EST

a little addition to my previus statement * Why there aren't historical proofs to clarify the etymology of the term "rom" for gypsies? The use of this etnonim was obscure to zero untill the 90 when FROM ROMANIA began the program who aimed to change the official name for gypsies and was sponsored by Soros fundation. George Soros is a wealthy multi-bilionare american-hungarian speculator being awarded by the Times Magazine in top 25 Most Influential Americans . @Ruvy in Jerusalem i'm sad to hear this things from you. Did you know Romania had the biggest jew minority in the prewar period? And that even in present are some sizeble jew communities. Are romanians guilt for what Nazis and Iron Guard did to you? Don't forget that even in present Romania has strong relations with Israel at political level. We don't hate and had never hate jews or Israel . I think you are alot more hated by other countries in contrary Romania is among those who actually sympathise you. This is not about hating gypsies or "roma" or whatever their name is. This is about unveiling the truth about this etnonim. The normal gypsy population are the last who are guilt for this manipulatios, the normal gypsy people don't even think at this aspects, they are more concerned about havin something to put on their table for their children. Gypsies and Romanians could live together in pace, if there wasn't the actual fact that some of your elite wants to steal our identity . The decision is up to you guys, if you real care about normal gypsy population you would change this etnonim, into some other which isn't similar to Romania or romanian. that's all

Comment by temporal

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:25:51 EST

if this: Alin Dosoftei these days you will have a wonderfull surprise. Too bad you decided too late to protect your privacy, is a veiled threat you should know you can be traced too adrian

Comment by Adrian

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:18:53 EST

[EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK - IP BANNED] Why there aren't historical proofs to clarify the etymology of the term "rom" for gypsies? The use of this etnonim was obscure to zero untill the 90 when it began the program who aimed to change the official name for gypsies and was sponsored by Soros fundation. George Soros is a wealthy multi-bilionare american-hungarian speculator being awarded by the Times Magazine in top 25 Most Influential Americans . As a people (or, more accurately, a collection of disparate groups) originating in India's Gujarat, gypsies were the camp followers of Mongol invaders of Eastern Europe in the 13th century. Once within the Byzantine Empire, they adapted the Byzantine self-defining term of Romaioi ("Romans" in Greek), given Byzantium's claim to be the direct successor of the (Eastern) Roman Empire. Hence today's historically absurd self-definition as "Roma." http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=69E9D3EF-6860-4CC5-9832-7725954173AE the word and term "rom" doesn't have any connection with your language or heritage. Even the romanian gypsy linguist Delia Grigore ( O cunosti mai mult ca sigur) recognised that the original term is "DOM" and that was taken from Prakrit language and adapted to "Rom". Rom means nothing in your language and in any language. The correct term is who means "man" in Prakrite is DOM . I see you continue to deceive, lie and and manipulate the readers . Haven't you got any shame? Cine te plateste sa raspandesti propaganda tiganeasca si sa lovesti in Romania ? eu stiu dar te las sa zici tu...

Comment by Ruvy in Jerusalem

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:11:34 EST

Just for everybody's information, the standard British spelling of the country in question was Roumania, and in the 19th century, it was Rumania, after being united as a kingdom. The Communists changed the spelling during the days they ruled the country to Romania, and the world has adjusted to that spelling. But that is not the issue here. Bigotry is the issue. Romanians do not like "Gypsies" at all, and the idea that these wanderers of South Asian ancestry should take a name like Roma, makes many Romanians feel, "there goes the neighborhood" - like whites would feel if a black family moved in 50 years ago. They do not want the negative connotations they themselves attribute to Roma and Roma culture to stain themselves. That is what Adrian is really going on about. In the early 20th century, the Romanians hated Jews, and blamed them for all of their country's problems. But the Iron Guard and the Nazis killed off lots of Romanian Jews, and the remainder fled the country after WWII, coming here, or going to Canada or America. With no Jews to blame anymore, lots or Romanians point their fingers at the Roma. Now that they are free of Communists sitting on the natural expressions of the country, the bigotry against the Roma can come out into the open...

Comment by Alin Dosoftei

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:39:39 EST

temporal, why do you give reasons to reply to this person? He is a helpless troll that represents here the Rumanians, until, as I said, a normal one will try to speak as social human being. I gave already the link of the Webster Dictionary that attests Romani in 1812. If one knows the writings of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Borrow they may see he used extensively the word Romany. What can we do if literate people were not interested in Romani language earlier? I see you're rather interested in the delirium of this... I don't know how to name him. I said earlier that only a part of the Roma have a connection with Romania. It's normal, we live in every continent, in most of the countries. How can be explained that Roma took the name from Rumanians, if most of them have no idea about this people? Moreover, I repeated many times, the Rumanians changed their names into Romanians (see above the Wikipedia link). They came closer to the name of the Roma and now they have also the pluck to complain.

Comment by temporal

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:30:58 EST

who is "we" and what do "we" mean by "imposing" :) and please, wipe that froth from the corners:) and while not entirely scientific, there is a way to judge a person's IQ from their posts;)

Comment by Adrian

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:17:55 EST

Bangladeshis are the habitants of Bangladesh country. They became independent in 1971. Bangladeshis is not a copy of other nation's name or ethnicity. Are you stupid? did you read what I said untill now ? We don't care how gypsies are calling to themselves as long as they don't try to impose the term with force and as long the termn it doesn't belong or isn't similar to another and distinct nation or population.

Comment by temporal

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:04:30 EST

adrian: am on the fringe here...by that i mean i couldn't care less if they call themselves romas or domas...it is their choice... you wrote: the name "rom" "romani" doesn't appear in history until 1971...in 1971 was the first time you took this name. it was the same year people took another name for themselves bangladeshis and they are known as such today i fail to see the reason behind so much vituperation from you...(shrug)