Desicritics Comments on Where is the Muslim Outrage?

Comment by josef

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:19:32 EDT

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Comment by josef

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:18:58 EDT

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Comment by josef

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:18:48 EDT

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Comment by Mike Ghouse

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:18:42 EST

A Y A N H I R S I A L I Ayan Hirsi Ali has written a piece in the international Herald Tribune called "Silence of Moderates" on December 7th, which has a lot of similarities and sequneces - of the several odd ball events, she has picked the same events as I have in my article posted in this thread "Where is the Muslim outrage" on December 1. Here is the link, what are your thoughts? http://iht.com/articles/2007/12/07/opinion/edali.php Mike Ghouse

Comment by Aaman

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:35:50 EST

We won't ban you,we'll just ignore your caps, or delete them until you use normal case.

Comment by KELA

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 03:07:19 EST

NO CHANDRA,I GOT BANNED,THIS TIME I PLAN ON INTIMIDATING THEM INTO NOT BANNING ME BY USING CAPS. MUSLIMS IN JAIL IN UK ,JUST PROVES WHAT I SAID ABT SKIN COLOUR

Comment by Chandra

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 02:58:18 EST

abbe Kela I asked you before, do you work on a ship? Did you know there are many muslims in jails in the UK without being charged.

Comment by KELA

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 02:51:48 EST

GIBBONS CASE PROVED YET AGAIN THE BENEFITS OF BIENG BORN WITH THE RIGHT SKIN COLOUR.A HANGING OR BEHEADING WAS IN ORDER

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:29:18 EST

Sanjay, can you distinguish between Talibans and Afghanistan, Americans and neocons, Indians and Hindutvadis, Muslims and Islamists? If you can, welcome to the straight shooters club. Mike

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:27:04 EST

If I don't criticize the US Admin (not Americans) and place checks against the wrong things we are doing, then that is not being truthful and amounts to jingoism. condemn what is wrong whether it comes from Islamists, American Admin,neocons, zionists or hindutvadis. I take pride in our democractic institutions, they are live today because people who stand up against wrong doing of our president. Mike Ghouse

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:22:52 EST

Where did you get the idea that I support Talibans? They are in my curse every day and I have condemned them every opportunity I get. Mike Ghouse

Comment by Sanjay

Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:10:46 EST

Let's not forget all the terrorists harboured by Taliban and trained in their training camps, who came to India to murder Indians. Mikey wants to carry credibility with his "Indian brothers", even though he cares more about his precious terrorist friends being hammered by the US Army in Afghanistan. I'm not interested in that kind of "brotherhood", Mikey. That kind of "brotherhood" isn't worth a crap.

Comment by updike98

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 23:26:51 EST

Mike by defending the Taliban you dont do yourself justice.We in India still remember their behaviour during IA hijack at Kandahar.The US war was justified.

Comment by Bong buster

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:35:31 EST

hey sam, that's a lot of gas coming from a defender of the talibani animals..why the muslims are kiling each other ?just because US is arming them?there is nothing in that sick cult that tells them to kill at each opportunity? Long list of US 'atroctities' but what about ur favourite muslims? neway,contnue cursing the US untill the taliban animals give u the mid night knock..

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:44:18 EST

Dear Mudassar, Salaams, I appreciate your sentiments, about not apologizing for the acts of some one else. It does not make sense on the face of it. However, it does make sense to let the other people know that what the Sudanes and Saudis are doing is their own culture and has nothing to do with your or my Religious culture. We are linked with them by our religion, just as Hindus, Jews or whoever is linked in the world and it behooves for us to speak up. We may have a genuine difference in understanding the purpose of religion, and we have to honor that, and that is what pluralism is all about, accepting and respecting each others uniqueness. Worshiping God is certainly important, the message of God is same - live in peace with yourselves and with others. Whether it is expressed in Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Jainism, Christianity, Bahai, Buddhist, Sikh, Shinto, Wicca, Zoroastrianism and others, it is the same essence. It is an affirmation of values in all religions and it should not negate other values because of the value set one is aware of. It is easy to blame others for what is made of Muslims, they are not the one's enduring it, we are. We have the freedom to be down and depressed or up and upbeat. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong in belief in One Lord, One Rasool or one Ummat. As beauty is in the eyes of beholder, faith is in the heart of the believer. No matter what faith, it is beautiful to the believer. I don't believe one faith negates the other. I don't believe, your penchant for apple pie is any lower or higher than my taste for peach cobbler. I let you enjoy Islam, and we let Ruvy enjoy Judaism, Sam his christianity and the other gentleman his faith Hinduism. All are beautful, God's command is not to create copy cats and duplicates but doing good to others, the ultimate goal of all faiths is nirvana, salavation, mukti, Moksha, nijaat... heck it is freedom and peace that comes from Justice. Mike Ghouse

Comment by Sam

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:27:46 EST

1. "Since the brave Islamic warrior is not coming out of his ratohole,it makes sense to prioritise the destruction of jehadi sleeper cells and funding network." FBI: we have no hard evidence linking Osama with 9/11 But that won't stop us from attacking two countries that have NOTHING to do with it!!! 2. Oops Iraq was a mistake. But don't worry Iran has nuclear weapons! Oops it doesn't. But so what? Its still a danger to its neighbors *thinking of last 200 years of history when US only invaded 25 nations through military interventions while Iran invaded zero; , the US also toppled democratic governments, sent death squads to torture innocents after training them in the school of Americas, threw two atomic bombs on civilian populations and supported dictators and depsots while supplying 30% of arms worldwide* See? :rolleyes: 3."Btw,how many of the killings are actually done by the followers of that merciful god?" You mean where the US is arming and funding Sunni militias that are against the majority Shias, just happen to be supporters of the Baathist regime the US toppled, are against the US and the elected Iraqi government? Sorta like going into Germany and funding and arming the Nazis then crying out that Germans are killing Germans. Duh! ORLY?

Comment by Bong buster

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:14:25 EST

1.Osama is not a priority: Since the brave Islamic warrior is not coming out of his ratohole,it makes sense to prioritise the destruction of jehadi sleeper cells and funding network.Difficult for a muslim to understand for a muslim,Sam 2.No WMDs found,still people killed:I have already said,Iraq was the biggest mistake as it removed the only sensible muslim rules.Btw,how many of the killings are actually done by the followers of that merciful god?

Comment by Mudassar Rana

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:44:08 EST

Dear Mike, I agree that apologising for one's wrongs is a healthy thing. But the actions of state that are not islamic (states) but secular states with a veil of islamic identity to confuse the layman are not the responsibility of the individual muslim. There is no way on God's earth that I would apologise for saudi's actions. Especially when Saudi Arabia was created by the British and is today protected by the Americans and British. More effort is needed on an individual muslims part to present on a daily basis the true islam in dealings with muslims and non-muslims alike. I work with non-muslims all day and have done for the last seven years. Often these questions pop up and I always seek to present true islam and give the customers an indepth guide to the true nature of these regimes. On a global level the muslim ummah faces many macro challenges and these can only be met by a political entity that protects the interests of muslims and presents the true light of islam. Witness the letters the prophet Mohammad s.a.w sent to the monarchs and leaders of the then empires inviting them to Islam. All islam is the confirmation of previous revelations. It calls to the worship of one God. It is revelation confirmed by the bible, torah and even the hindu vedas. The global media barons, banking moguls have combined with the zionists to put muslims on the back foot and try to get them to leave their deen and make them feel ashamed and embarrassed. It is a fullfillment of the hadith that near the end of times the holding onto islam will be like holding onto hot iron. If belief in One Lord, One Rasool, one Ummat is wrong in todays world then I am more than happy to be wrong! There will indeed be a day when We will be proven right and the shallow and superficial will then be ashamed of their deeds.

Comment by Sam

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:42:17 EST

Bong: Read my lips: 1. Osama is not a priority 2. There are no WMDs in Iraq oops we killed a couple of million people for NO REASON

Comment by Bong buster

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:43:06 EST

"Ah of course, makes sense now. The US was afraid the Taliban would not play ball which is why they bombed the civilians instead and THEN decided Osama is not a priority. Brilliant!" The US was not afraid the your talibanis would not play ball.It was sure.We have the examples of the Talibanis playing ball in case the Buddha statues,Kandahar Hijacking,cutting the throat of the Indian engineers while telling the world that they are negotiating.You are just too brilliant not to see that.And the US did not bomb the innocent civilians knowningly.Your brave and innocent Islamic warriors ran away to their rat holes,leaving the civilians exposed to the bombings.The US has expressed regret over the few civilians bombed.In any case,when u r fighting a enemy that consists of animals,some collateral damage is bound to happen. My question remains: Why is the so called god called allah,whose name is always followed by the phrase 'most merciful',so dreaded by his followers?Why should mohammed's name should be so sacrosanct not be given to a Teddy but children?Why then is Mohammed Azharuddin not being asked to change his name,after he made crores out of match fixing?(of course he went on to the usual muslim breast beating after being caught').Is it because the original mohammed was also a criminal?

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:10:16 EST

A few Muslims, like the few neo cons, are distractive and out of focus, here is one such dialogue: Salaam, Dear Raafia, I respectfully submit that both of us are doing, what we believe are important to us. The issues you are talking about are important as well. No issue should be pushed to the corner. Our limitations are; 1) We cannot utter all the injustices in one breath. 2) We cannot express all issues in one word. Given that limitation, we have to deal one issue at a time, that is my personal preference, you may have your own style, but all are honing on issues. Please work on the issues that are important to you and I will work on the issues that are important to me. Together, God willing we may achieve a few things. I reiterate my standing on the usage of the word Kufffar. As a Muslim I do not subscribe to the meaning you are giving in splitting the world into Kuffars and Muslims, that sounds like George Bush's imitation - either you are with us or with them. It will not cut for me, it is an extreme position. Very few, yes very few Muslims subscribe to that idea, the Majority follows the middle path - getting along with every one and creating peaceful world, I am on that path. Indeed, that is the guidance from God. Qur'an, Al-Hujurat, Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. The noblest of you, in sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware." I believe in what is good for Muslims has got to be good for others and vice-versa. I strongly believe in the verses of Qur'aan, do unto others as you would want others to do for you. Please continue on working what you are guided by, and Insha Allah, I will follow the path that guides me. Let's respect each others work. Jazak Allah Khair Mike Ghouse ............................................. In a message dated 12/4/2007 10:23:12 A.M. No Mike Today Saudia and Sudan are not the subjects..........except by CNN Headlines. If Muslims would search the world and create their own headlines, I am sure neither one of these issues would make page 25. We are becoming more and more like the kuffar with this short attention span. When you read Quran, the first issue is always Allah's Oneness, Heaven and Hell. This should always be first and foremost in our minds. Second, we are to be mannerly and just. If we make the issue of this rape (alleged) or this woman who defamed the Prophet, a headline issue, then we are being UNjust to the many other plights that Muslims are facing. If I am being choked by a burglar. and you are in the room with me and cleaning the furniture, that is unjust. This doesn't mean the furniture is not dirty or the floor doesn't need sweeping, but in light of the fact I am being attacked and you are in the room, you have forfeited my rights over you as my Muslim brother, because you have forsaken me. We are to honor our brothers, not oppress them, not forsake them. So my last word on this issue is that we need to stop focusing on the minor issues and focus on the major oneos. I am pretty sure if you scour the news all over the world, and compare it to the status of Muslims and Islam in the world today, both of these issues would be non-issues. ......................................... Raafia, Appreciate your note and dialogue. You have made a few assumptions, one of them is that you are the only one standing up for Muslims and other's are not. The reality is you are one of the 1.5 Billion Muslims as I am, each one of us is doing the work, some less than their share, and some more than they can handle. Please look at the situation. 7 years ago - other topic If It was a year ago - many topics A month ago we talked about different things Today, Sudan and Saudi Arabia's situation is the talk and focus Tomorrow, it may be Iran again. Please know that in one single breath, we can talk only one thing that needs attention. Islam means peace to me, it is not a word to flaunt around, it is the actions we take. Working for reducing the conflicts and fostering goodwill. To me the world exists as human beings with different belief sets worshipping and bowing to the same divine. Every human believes in creator, or cause of creation in his or her own way and no one is denying the existing of the cause of creation AKA God. Hence, the word Kuffar has to be debated much, and is not a wedge to divide people and to me no one at this time is a Kuffar in the sense it was used then. We need to look at the world from a larger context, the context that God has shown to all, including us, the Muslims. Please remember, God is not the God of Muslims exclusively, he is God of the Universe, and it is in the very first verse of Qur'aan, and Qur'aan concludes in the very last chapter Naas by addressing all humans and not Muslims - Let's not depreciate the word of God by dividing people. We are one world and one community and we have to create peace among ourselves, we have got to know each other, again refer to Qur'an, Al-Hujurat, Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. The noblest of you, in sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware." Mike Ghouse ......................................... In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:27:28 A.M. I am not denying that these two miniscule issues are not issues. They are issues. But the response i see from the Muslims, you would think that these are the worst things Muslims are enduring. By far, they are not. You seem to be a man of intelligence, thus i assume that you are aware of the plight of Muslims all over the world. Are you telling me, with all of the death and destructions muslims face, that these two issues are of the highest priority? Sufficient for you to go on this global email campaign? I see people quote ayaat from Quran to support these two incidents, but I have yet to see these same people quoting the ayat where Allah says, When a fasiq person comes to you with news, to verify it? Have you spoken to the judges and the victim? Have you even verified if there was a rape? There are many versions of what happened here, we are NOT to automatically to condemn neither the judges nor the victim. This is not professional, nor Islamic, but rather purely knee-jerk reactions, based upon headlines from the kuffar. And why these two cases? When there are instances in the world where Muslims are enduring far worse treatment. One more thing, Mike. Anytime a Muslim is standing side-by-side with the kuffar and attacking another Muslim, he should reflect his position. You, and a host of others, are busy attacking muslims, with the kuffar beside you. THIS is not behavior of a muslim ......................................... Dear Raafia, Indeed, I am outraged at the treatment meted out to Muslim women and all women all over the world. As Muslims we have to speak out against any injustice; be it against Muslims or any one without distinction. This week it was Ms. Gibbons that is harassed, so we speak out and express our outrage. We did condemn the mistreatment of Saudi Women. Ms. Gibbons did not insult our prophet at all. With all the love and endearment she named the Teddy.... she is not aware of out cultural sensitivity, we have to forgiver or take a minute to explain to her. Islam is about caring and understanding and not about violence. We are rightly outraged. It does no diminish our outrage at the patriarchal societies and how badly they treat women around the world. The idiocy of Sudan and Saudi - reflects on all of us Muslims and we have to speak out, their laws may be bad, but not Islam's. Mike Ghouse ......................................... In a message dated 12/3/2007 2:08:18 P.M. What I really find outrageous is how when we live in a time where there are Muslims being killed by the thousands, and jailed, and raped. Their lands are being invaded, and they are being oppressed by Muslim dictators, how can we even show the slightest concern over a woman who defames the Prophet? Do we ignore the plight of the Muslims (like the kuffar) but we get outraged when a headline is used to excite us against Islam and the Muslims? How can we have so much concern over ONE woman being jailed, when Muslim women are being jailed all over the world? Do we care for the kuffar more than we are concerned over our Muslim sisters? Yes Mike, where is YOUR outrage?

Comment by smallsquirrel

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 04:24:00 EST

oh god! yes I guess you would NOT want them then. That is even worse than not wanting to look at a food that you got stomach upset from, I would guess! YIKES... glad you are in good health now. shabbat shalom.

Comment by Ruvy in Jerusalem

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 03:15:36 EST

smallsquirrel, Of course I can have a latke! I find them particularly unattractive since the heart attack because they remind me of the morning after I enjoyed them the last time (when I got the heart attack). Shabbat Shalom, Reuven

Comment by smallsquirrel

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 02:55:58 EST

ruvy... yeah, don't bother engaging him...he spouts off but clearly doesn't know how to or want to read the answers to his queries. ignore! :)

Comment by Ruvy in Jerusalem

Fri, 7 Dec 2007 02:52:30 EST

Avoiding my questions again? Parmdan, I haven't the patience to write over and over again the same things - or even to copy and paste. It's Friday and we have to prepare for the Sabbath, which comes before 16:00 local time, only a few hours away. Go look at my articles at Blogcritics, (the link is at comment 42 upthread), and my comments here to get a good idea of my views and for probable answers to your questions.