Where is the Muslim Outrage?

Dear Mike,

I salute you for this article. This introspection is what is unfortunately missing among the muslims of today. There are short comings in every religion including mine, but there are also enough checks and balances in each of them save Islam. The fanatics have hijacked it and you have demonstrated that all is not lost yet.

Many westerners go about deliberately provoking muslims and we all know what kind of insane response you get from some muslims. The tamasha goes on.......

Chandra:

Agree with you that a few westerners have made it their business to provoke, get angry reactions, create the fear and then cash it in. Poor Americans dole out monies if they are frightened and some charlatan claims to become their saviour.

However, Ms. Gibbons is a genuines teacher, and showed affection, it was rather endearing. Those idiots did not understand, they were waiting for an opportunity to get angry at anything, a result of their suppressive government.

They need to get on their government and not on others. There is big time Imam next door in Somalia, who openly advocated to have liquor within the confines of the walls.

It is a darn shame, people are misused and it is a greater shame, they take their anger on the innocent people.

Dear Ravi,

Thanks for the note.

Every religion has checks and balances including Islam.

The criminals laws of any country prohibit people from killing, raping, mugging... and there is a punishement for it. Greater than 95% of population of any country follows the laws, obeys the traffic laws.. some don't. It is not the law books that are wrong, it is the violators that are wrong.

Every religion is beautiful and divine. No one can claim superiority over the other, as each religions is dear to the believer.

Mike Ghouse
www.foundationforpluralism.com
www.WorldMuslimCongress.com
www.MikeGhouse.net

Please tell me I'm wrong. Can Islam be corrected?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm

BTW I'm not here to start a flame war

#6 Hello Unni
It depends what sites you choose to read, well the above sites main purpose is to abuse Islam and Muhammed(PBHU), so what can we expect from this.
Thanks

well someone should be outraged because in the sudan people are taking to the streets calling for the execution of that british teacher, calling her an infidel and saying she is poisoning the minds of children. all over a small misunderstanding for which she has apologized profusely.

meanwhile in that country people are being murdered wholesale.

I have nothing against righteous mulims, but I hate extremists of every religion equally.

it is becoming a sad, frightening, polarized world.

condemnation is the order of the day for utter nonsense like this and the saudi rape victim

but the muslims have to go beyond condemnation and spread awareness and knowledge to their multitudes...that would be a formidable task

otherwise

they would be doomed to making knee-jerk condemnations for a long time

Dear Unni,

Dear Unni,

I know you are not here to start a flame war and I appreciate that, that means our resources are to be employed more appropriately - yours and mine and everyone else's to combat ignorance.

Religion is not the reason for problems of the world, it is the ignorance. As I have noted earlier - if one commits a crime in India -it does not mean India is criminal or its constitution is wrong, it is the darn criminal. Look at the crime stats - it is not committed by 100% of Indians be it 100%of Muslim, 100% of Hindu... you will not find more than 5% of population in crime, the rest are good law abiding citizens. India is not and cannot be called criminal... it is not even her people, it is the individuals. Same goes with Religion, it is not the religion.

How do you solve terrorism? The same way as common criminals, jail each one individually as individuals, and the murderer that is thrown in the jail is not to be labeled as Indian murderer, let it not be Hindu or Muslim terrorists, it is simply the terrorist.

If I call those guys involved in either Godhra or Gujarat - Muslim Terrorists or Hindu Terrorists... it offends the innocent law abiding Muslims and Hindus. It starts with the right labels. Terrorists. Period. It does not incite either Muslims or Hindus with such labeling.

Besides, the followers of all religions have their prime duty to have peace for themselves and peace for others.

As an individual, who is also a Muslim, me and all the people that I know, are there to mitigate conflicts and foster goodwill. I am sure, you are part of this peace makers. It starts with each one of us. If we cannot be peaceful, we cannot expect others to be.

Mike Ghouse
www.MikeGhouse.net

Dear SS,

None of us should have anything against others. Crimes are committed by individuals, not by Hindus, not by Muslims, not by a Nation or a religion.

If we bark against the wrong tree, we will not get the results. If you have the time check out my piece on Laser Barking at the terrorists - how to work with the terrorists.

Please do not hate any one - you are the first one to lose peace to do so and it strips your ability to be a peace maker or at least not to be a trouble maker.

Mike Ghouse
www.MikeGhouse.net

Dear Temporal;

Agree with your thought that condemnation is the first step to express the wrongness, that is the least one is expected to do. If one sees a wrong in the world, the prophet whom these ignorant's claim to follow, advises that you must step in and stop the wrong, mitigate the conflict or at least you can speak up and let others know it is wrong.

Many organizations are involved in bringing education to the criminals, it will come. Just as we cannot wipe crimes - thefts, rapes, mugging, arson, murders in India or America, we cannot completely eliminate terrorism in one day. But we can reduce it by treating them as individual criminals and containing the crime to them and not making it a group item.

You and I may not be satisfied with the speed of results, but it is happening.

mike... you misunderstand me... I said I hate extremists, and all of them equally. Meaning that I hate the people who give good, God fearing Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc a bad name. These are the people ruining the world...

I might be a troublemaker, but not the kind you think :)

SS,

Thanks for clarifying, I stand corrected. By the way, what kind of trouble maker are you?
Mike Ghouse

oh, you know.. the garden variety kind... the italian jew that married a hindu and moved to india kind... the girl who has a loud mouth and will tell anyone anywhere to stick it where the sun won't shine... but usually ends up making more friends than enemies.

The Muslim ummah is a fictional state in the west, that does not really exist in the Muslim world. I know of several educated Muslims who bemoan the backwardness of the Sudanese and the Arabs (what else can you expect from those goatf***ers? Bah!) rather than see this as a problem that affects all Muslims

Strangely though, lately I have seen a shift in this trend. Muslims who are judged for their beliefs by people who do not even know them (like Unni above) have begun to realise that, like it or not, what happens in Sudan or Saudi Arabia is no longer a local issue of jurisprudence, but a global issue of Islam. What Saudi Arabia and Sudan do is not linked to their history, type of government or culture but is an issue for all Muslims regardless of their country of origin. The Chechnyan, the Malaysian, the Indonesian, the Chinese, the Canadian, all must take responsibility for what happens in Sudan or Saudi Arabia.

Isn't it amazing that regardless of what people may think about Islam, they believe, deep in their hearts that all Muslims are one? Regardless of country, color, gender, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, all Muslims are as ONE.

Now all we have to do is wait for Muslims to discard their apathy and recognise this fact.

ss:

heheh

didn't you forget to add "... and who adds to the workload of the moderating editors.."

;)

Dear Sam;

You have made good points, but this particular one is the where I will apply the standard question, "IF IT APPLIES TO ME, WOULD THAT APPLY TO YOU?" or even" WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE HAS GOT TO BE GOOD FOR THE GANDER"

Let's put your sentences to test;

The comment "What happens in Sudan or Saudi Arabia is no longer a local issue of jurisprudence, but a global issue of Islam".

What happens to Hindus in Caribbean, Fiji, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Russia, Uzbekistan or Timbuktu is no longer a local issue.

What happens to Christians in Indonesia, Pakistan, China or India is no longer a local issue.

And now this sentence;

Isn't it amazing that regardless of what people may think about Hindus, they believe, deep in their hearts that all Hindus are one? Regardless of country, color, gender, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, all Hindus are as ONE.

Isn't it amazing that regardless of what people may think about Jews, they believe, deep in their hearts that all Jews are one? Regardless of country, color, gender, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, all Jews are as ONE.

The Bahai's, Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jains and others are no exception either.

It is wrong to paint Muslims or any one in that light, it is creating a division of Humanity... Yes, many a people do that, does it mean we have to do it as well? NO, absolutely NO. I have taken up the issue in each instance above. It is a human issue indeed.

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/02/hindus-harassed-in-kazhakstan-dear-mr.html

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/06/bangladeshi-hindus-harassed.html

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/08/condemn-temple-desecration.html

The World Muslim Congress has condemned any injustice towards any human, whether is is Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Zoroastrian, Jew, Buddhist, Bahai or any one...

Each one of us have to stand up for justice for all. We cannot have justice to one and not the other, then it is not justice. Justice is a strong concept in all human endeavors and religions, certainly it is in Islam.

People make mistakes, religions don't.

Mike Ghouse

Mike,

This was a very interesting article. It is evident that there is some real movement in the Moslem world, and your writing is real evidence of this. With your permission (and that of the publisher here, I'll forward this article to the Yahoo List of Sheikh Abdulhadi Palazzi and to the Editor of the Root & Branch Information Service for publication there. It is very important for non-Moslems to realize that the Moslem world is not a monolithic bunch of mad, throat cutting terrorists or drive-by shootout artists, even if a lot of the locals here give that impression.

Shavua Tov,
Have a good week

Ruvy,

Shalom
(check this out:http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/Pluralism%20Greetings.pdf)

What made you log onto this website? Just curios.

Thank you for the comment, please forward to Dr. Abdul Hadi Palazzi in Italy, he and I have had several exchanges in the past... I lost the link to his website... he has the best recitation of one of the most popular chapter of Qur'aan. I long to hear it.

112:1 SAY: "He is the One God:
112:2 "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being
112:3 "He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
112:4 "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.

I am familiar with the interfaith work that is going on in Israel. I was going to be in Jerusalem with the International Federation for Peace, but have postponed due to committments. May be in March 2008.

By the way we were the first group of Muslims in the world, who commemorated holocaust, the surivior spoke at lenght. And am a good friend of director at the Holocaust musuem. We will be doing the event again in Jan 2008. Never again should the world go through what it did in the holocaust.

I am surprised you are writing on Saturday!

Shavua Tov,
Mike Ghouse

ruvy:

welcome to the awareness! no group is monolitihic

:)

Ruvy,

you have my permission to forward the article, I don't know the policies of this forum on that particular issue.

Thanks
Mike Ghouse

Mike:

"Each one of us have to stand up for justice for all. We cannot have justice to one and not the other, then it is not justice. Justice is a strong concept in all human endeavors and religions, certainly it is in Islam.

People make mistakes, religions don't."

Absolutely, I totally agree. I always give the example, if you are drowning and a hand is extended to you for help, would you care about the religion of the hand?

20,000 children die of starvation everyday. A vast majority of people in the world live on less than a dollar a day, in conditions of shameful deprivation, lack of human rights and unaware of choices and opportunities that you and I take for granted.

Instead of bemoaning the visible results of this deprivation, what we need most urgently is people who CARE. Care enough to educate one child, feed a family and provide an opportunity.

As Gandhiji said:

The world has enough for everyone's need, but not everyone's greed.

I am happy and pleased to see your efforts. Kudos to you and all those like you.

First of all, I dont know who gives out this nonsense of "Religions are for peace". I have yet to see anything based on any ideology "ACT" for peace! NONE!

Religions are nothing but ideologies with a self-constructed haloes! Nothing more. Just like communism or hardcore capitalism... Islam or Christianity or other religions stand ONLY for their PRIMACY and nothing more. There is an inherent element of intolerance in the genesis and existence of all ideologically based groups.

So, to expect Islam or any other religion to even work for the goodness of mankind is utter nonsense. It can never happen.

There is a difference between spirituality and religion. At the level of spirituality, one does need to assert any thing.. least of all a "distinction"... so ideology or ideas that get their strength from people loses meaning. That alone can be basis of peace.

But to me when someone starts parroting that religions or ideologies which owe their strength in any one PERSON, GROUP, BOOK or institutions.. however pious He/They/it may be ... I am amazed at the inherent ignorance and shallowness of understanding of the real issue of misery in the world.

And please... dont start citing Quranic verses here to argue against this thing.. as I can also cite enough lines from Mein Kampf and Communist Manifestos etc. Its all the same... its about the animal called IDEOLOGY... the generic form.

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

"But to me when someone starts parroting that religions or ideologies which owe their strength in any one PERSON, GROUP, BOOK or institutions.. however pious He/They/it may be ... I am amazed at the inherent ignorance and shallowness of understanding of the real issue of misery in the world."

Then you are aware, are you not, of the role of secular institutions in sustaining this misery for profit?

It is true that group think can overwhelm personal ideology, after all, there are two types of people in the world, those who accomodate themselves to the world and those who refuse to do. All change is due to the second group of people, who though a minority, lead the others into revolutions. But its not the religion that defines the direction of change, it is the will and ideology of those who are willing to put themselves forward to institute that change.

Desh,

Let me address your comments back wards, Para by Para.

Please feel free to quote from any book you wish, if there is goodness out there, it ought to be universal and open, and not become any one's exclusive property. Christians do not own Jesus or his message, neither Hindu has copy rights to Bhagvad Gita or Santana Dharma nor do Muslims own Qur'aan or God. The message and the book belong to all. They are indeed self improvement books, and to limit them is a travesty to the message of goodness. It is a shame to bottle and limit the messages of these great teachers. It is a greater shame if we are close minded and afraid to learn from more than one source.

To understand misery in the world, please give a shot at reading Gautama Buddha's 4 noble truth, you will find an answer there as clear as crystal clear waters. The message of any religion is not a magical; it is a distilled wisdom to live a good life. A good life is where one is not afraid of the fellow being and pretty much have a balance between the desires and their gratification.

I agree with you about spirituality. Let me add. Spirituality and arrogance are inversely proportional to each other.

Please look around - look at the charities, hospitals, educational institutions, ashrams, soup kitchens, women shelters..... by all religions. They abound, without which life would not have been where it is today. All religions motivate individuals to take care of each other, especially the down trodden. By the way, both Hinduism and Islam have a saying "let the left hand not know the charity that right hand gives". There is a Doha (couplet) where one Muslim Fakir (forgot his name) was helping poor people and when he gave, he lowered his gaze and gave. Tulsidas wrote to him, why he does that, why does he lower the gaze, instead he should be proud that he gives.... The Fakir said "why should I be proud of giving something that is not mine, God gave me and I am merely passing it out?" Most charities and good works are not publicized; they silently work and help the needy. Prophet Muhammad had advised his associates, that when you give, give as quietly as you can - so you do not embarrass the receiver. Desh, please enrich me and quote from Mein Kempf, I would love to learn.

Each religion answers people's deep concerns - why was my baby born blind? Why did my beloved die? How do tyrants get away from injustices? How come I cannot find the job? Why is that I cannot have friends? .... Religions answer these questions and bring about calmness and composition to an individual and societies. Islam, Christianity or any faith, are all out there to do good to humanity. Individuals do wrong, but not the religion. The Pope in cahoots with the European kings issued a Fatwa that Christians have to go kill the infidel Muslims and Jews... Without that Edict, the soldiers would not have given up their lives for the kings. It is wrong of us to give the Pope as the representation of Christianity... he was as human as any one, he did not get the message of Jesus.... If not he would not have done what he did. Bhagvad Gita has my favorite quote - "Finding the truth is one's own responsibility" Which means, whatever you learn from your teacher and parents makes you hate some one without any basis, it is your responsibility to find the truth, so you can be released from the Pain and achieve Nirvana.

Thanks God we are endowed with religion (all of them), without which, the world would be chaotic.

Ah, by the way when Tsunami hit, every one was out there to help instinctively. The first ones to hit Tamil Nadu shores were Muslims, who gave shelter in their Mosques, the Swami Naryan People, Israel flew doctors to Banda Aceh... there was no distinction about who you serve and who served. That is the power of religion.

Mike

the real evil in this world is not religion per se, but American greed and lust for power, and the Christian fundamentalist neo-imperialists behind this. It is to their advantage to keep dictators in power in the third world and keep the population of those countries poor, uninformed, uneducated, and beaten down by their rulers. The western media uses images of Sudanese calling for the British teachers head to brainwash their own ignorant masses into believing that western (christian in fact) values are in danger. these events in Sudan and S.A. give them excuses to bomb away.
The media never mention the hypocrisy of labels. Muslims are "terrorists"...but were the IRA ever called roman catholic terrorists? Or were the Stern Gang called jewish terrorists? I dont think so.
If you want to talk about religion and terrorism look no further than the european/american christians!

the real evil in this world is not religion per se, but American greed and lust for power, and the Christian fundamentalist neo-imperialists behind this. It is to their advantage to keep dictators in power in the third world and keep the population of those countries poor, uninformed, uneducated, and beaten down by their rulers. The western media uses images of Sudanese calling for the British teachers head to brainwash their own ignorant masses into believing that western (christian in fact) values are in danger. these events in Sudan and S.A. give them excuses to bomb away.
The media never mention the hypocrisy of labels. Muslims are "terrorists"...but were the IRA ever called roman catholic terrorists? Or were the Stern Gang called jewish terrorists? I dont think so.
If you want to talk about religion and terrorism look no further than the european/american christians!

temporal #17.. yeah, that too. (grins sheepishly)

hey ruvy, you're back! shalom!

and PS.. wow! great paragraph of overgeneralizations you got there. so very helpful!

I am little new to this sites but not to this type of blogs.
very great article.
But one observation.
In the process of asking your Religion folks for introspection it is better not to compare with other religions.
This way it gives unnessary commparion and unnessary war of words...eventually loss of real message.
See the situation goes like..
-U compare Hindus/Xians at one point.
-One Hindu gets angry and responds with some comments.
-to this a Muslim (untill them believes your article) suddenly becomes defensive and blasts on him.
-then the loop continues.

I am not saying introspection is not needed in Hinduism or other religions/cultures.
-"Sati" which was prevalent some time back in hinduism was aboloished by every one. I don't it is practiced even on remote areas (some odd cases might be reported hear and there but it is not a trend)

-Similar way there are lot of things like woman's importantce in society, caste system,etc,etc are questioned and debated.

introspection is always needed in all religions.. as apart from basics I feel all religions shd evolve as mankind is evolving.

Namaste my Hindu friend,

Agree with you that introspection is necessary. The good news is, it is going on a daily basis. Thanks to the internet and America, people living in America (no matter what faith they wear) are fairly bold and value their freedom and judge religions from that perspective.

Yes, we have the neo-cons, a few Islamists, and few extremist zionists and a few Hindutvadis, who frighten people.

Look at any website that is run by neo-cons of all religions, there would be a fearful story as PS in #29 has narrated... and then they ask for money. All the right wing organizations know that the only way to collect money is to manufacture fear, twist events to fear...and ask money.

It is a business for them, and a lot of ordinary folks get suckered into it.

Mike Ghouse

A great article !Could someone tell me what happened to mysticism in Islam?Sufis and Dervishes with their language of celebration and joy are being stamped out by fanatics.Sudan is an extreme end of the spectrum;Islam also has Nusrath and Masth Kalandars who bring joy and ecstasy.Let us not be too obsessed with western opinions.The West for centuries has brought misery to the third world.

Updike, perhaps, is pointing towards those 'mystic-ecstatics', who sing about the importance of loving humankind without distinguishing one from another on the basis of her or his outer garb - Under the skin of our beliefs we are all human, has been their refrain. Such sooth-singers (sooth, meaning truth), have sprung up in every religious tradition, - the Bauls, the Sufis to name a few. These rebels were responding to the separative drives inhererent in all organised systems, be they religious or secular.

It is also a fact, however, that humankind, largely, has turned deaf ears to such messages, and turned the song into mere enjoyment, rather than learning.(Such learning can be intensely enjoyable too, I suppose?).

Updike,

Mysticism in Islam will continue to flourish, but not at the pace it happened in India. Their message is universal love, they are not bonded by rituals, they practice rather a free form of spirituality.

Abida Parveen is good - on you tube place Abida Parveen in search...these are really good... they will put you in a trance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ9_3zOwEIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8BgubvXWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6aI1gdmy2U

It strikes me funny that the very people who are to be humble, are not - Look at the regalia worn by the clergy in all faiths - they have to have a certain color and wear it certain way to distinguish themselves from the others. They don't look and live like normal souls. They attain spirituality through clothing?

Western opinions? Living and being an American from India, I have never felt that they or we are a different breed. Physically we look different, but our motivations are same - food, clothing and shelter. Normal people (95%) are the same no matter what religion they wear - it is the fanatics within that 5% range that are difficult. They are accused of dividing and ruling - apply the formula what is good for goose is good..... It sticks to all.

Ms. Gibbons actually did not make the mistake from her point of view, but culturally it was different for the Sudanese. My friend Shiv visited me from India and had stayed with us for a few months, I got him to drive among other things... One day, I gave the key and told him to go on and drive... he said no... but then told me that he will not drive that day, as I was giving him the key with my left hand.

Mike

smallsquirrel

you said "and PS.. wow! great paragraph of overgeneralizations you got there. so very helpful!"

that's exactly what I was doing...overgeneralizing. western media does it so much towards the "Other" that I thought maybe if "we" did the same then the western masses might, just might, see that their perceptions of us were wrong (oversimplified and over generalized?). clearly I struck a nerve. was it the Stern Gang reference? this is not the first time you have been taken aback by my comments (remember the Redskins?).
was anything that I said untrue? Are not America and the christian fundamentalists causing so much anguish in the world?
Is Israel not an apartheid state? I await your reply

oh parmdan.. what a riot... stereotyping much because you read that I was jewish. please, give it a freaking rest. if you did your homework you would have read that I do not support settlement of israelis on palestinian land (west bank, gaza strip, etc) and I could give a damn about the stern gang. really. you did not strike a nerve, do please do not go patting yourself on the back.

what I object to is your constant stereotyping of ALL americans as greedy, warmongering neocon christians. it's so tired. it's so predictable. and it's too easy. it's simply knee-jerk. and I thing probably you've never been to the US to realize that the bulk of people there do not even fit your predictably sophmoric and cartoon-like representation of them.

as I have said a million times, yes the US does some totally fucked up things and should be held responsible for them. but this trend of overarching US-bashing for everything is simply useless.

let's use the Sudan for example. I love it when Indians whine that the US is doing nothing in Sudan. Uh, maybe then India should do something itself beyond continuing to fund the very people causing the genocide with their trade policies.

It's very easy to point the finger, and I agree that sometimes the US Government makes it easier. I am no fan of Bush, and that is putting it very lightly. But this rampant overgeneralization is the easy way out. anyone can make stupid generalizations. it takes an intelligent person to tease out the real issues.

I am taken aback by your comments only because they are far too facile to be taken any other way. they lack any creativity or thought or insight.

smallsquirrel,

you assume that because I "hate" the west that I must be in India. well you're wrong. I'm Indian but I grew up and live in Canada and have been to the states.
If the "bulk" of Americans are not "greedy, warmongering neocon christians" then why do so many have such strong beliefs in god?
by "bulk" I assume you mean more than 50%.
In my original post I said "American greed and lust for power, and the Christian fundamentalist neo-imperialists..." I never said that American people were ALL that; just the ones in control are. Was this a false statement? can you refute that the media loves to join "Muslim" and "terrorist" but never did with the IRA? or maybe I'm one of those delusional conspiracy theorists? I should be careful about what I say...they could be listening.
maybe if the yanks quit f@#$ing with every country that didn't agree with them then the world would be a better place. since you mentioned the issue of Israel and apartheid, have you (or do you) blog on any sites about those issues? do you make your views known that you "do not support settlement if Israelis on Palestinian land"? I wonder. Is your passion for those issues as strong as it is on desicritic?
"..the US does some totally fucked up things and should be held responsible for them. but this trend of overarching US-bashing for everything is simply useless." ¬maybe it's overarching but it is so f#@$ing true. at the end of the day most of these problems are caused by the americans/christian neo-imperialists. If I'm wrong then please enlighten me.

yes I do make my views known and plenty clearly

http://smallsquirrel.blogspot.com/2006/06/political-rant.html
or
http://smallsquirrel.blogspot.com/2004/07/just-another-brick-in-wall.html

those are just a couple small notes but there are plenty more. you just don't like to do your homework but instead like to spout off half-cocked.

and yes, the IRA *is* known as a terrorist group. what sand hole have you had your head stuck down?!?!? the US would not meet with Sinn Fein leaders for a very long time because we had classifed them as terrorists. again, please do your homework.

and I did not mention Israel, you genius... YOU did when you were busy trying to stereotype me.

also I said "indians" not "people in india" , so please make sure to quote me correctly when you do your half-baked ranting.

and you think the US is the anti-christ but Canada is blameless???

wow. good luck with the delusion, man. you're got issues far larger than I care to tackle.

The 'christian white west' and muslims are in the middle of a mad fight. The whites explore avenues to provoke muslims and the muslims react like nut jobs. We India should not fall for this. There should be no tolerance for anti-islamic crap nor for islamic fundamentalism of any sort. We have far more important things like Palestine and Sudan. Let them kill themselves, blow themselves, fight wars, butcher each other.

Mike,

I tried answering you last night, but for some reason Desicritics would not accept my comment. When you posted in Dallas it was the Sabbath - there. The Sabbath had already ended here in Samaria. This was the reason I was writing - on Saturday night, after the Sabbath had ended.

Sheikh Palazzi's site is www.amislam.com.

I tend to agree with Desh and you in that what is important is not the ceremony per se, but that one be a believer in the faith. In other words, rattling off a prayer by heart without meaning it is worse, in my eyes, than not praying at all.

I came to view this article because I am a writer here. I saw an e-mail from the publisher, Aaman Lamba, highlighting this article at the Blogcritics Yahoo! List and came to see what you had said.

You can find my work at Blogcritics Magazine at my writers' site there.

If you look at the writers list at Desicritics, you'll find my articles there as well. I firmly believe that there will be a reconciliation between the Children of Israel and the Children of Ishmael [Isaiah 60:7-8]. I would like to see a solution that will prevent a great deal of bloodshed - but I fear that my hopes will not be realized, and foresee a terrible war in the region in the not too distant future. The reconciliation prophesied in Isaiah, will have to come after many gallons of blood are shed, and this is truly tragic. But it is what events appear to point to.

Smallsquirrel and I generally do not see eye to eye (two Jews, three opinions) and you can get a good read of how I think from the very first article I posted at Blogcritics Magazine two years ago last November, Hanukkah - Judaism's most important holiday. Enjoy....

But, this does not change the fact that there is movement in the Moslem world that hopefully can combat the influence of the Wahhabi on Islam, and your own words are testimony to this.

Kol hakavód l'khá!

Reuven

Hello Ruvy if you talk about the reconciliation between children of Abraham it is a impossible mission atleast for near future, because more and more Jews in US are falling prey to Evangelical Christians and messianic ideologies, the evaangelicals are preparing for a war between west and Israel on one side and Muslim+russia+china on other side, resulting in second arrival of Jesus.
Any reconciliation should be between Palestanians and Jews living in Israel, no US between them.
As far wahabis(salafis) remember they do not have any interest in Palestine-Israel issue,and giving much importance to Jerusalem or Al-aqsa is a shirk.

"because more and more Jews in US are falling prey to Evangelical Christians and messianic ideologies"

I do not believe this. In fact, what is happening in American Judaism now is that people are practising it less and less. Out of 50% of Jews who profess to be Judaic (the other 50% are secular Jews or profess no religion), only half, ie about 26% go to a syangogue.

http://www.culturaljudaism.org/pdf/ajisbook.pdf

Sam,

You are close to being right, you will be right in a few more years. The movie about a Palestinian terorrist was premiered in Dallas. I was perhaps one of the few non-Jews there.

The conversation after the show was interesting... I have written two columns on that some two years back and a few of my Jewish friends agreed with the content.

Several of them denied that the Palestinians did not exist and were an implant from Arab nations. Of couse, when I reminded them 1948, and Holocaust relocation....then a few started seeing another point of view.. but they were afraid to speak up. It amazed me how much misunderstand is out there.

However, more and more Jews are thinking independently now, and are not afraid to speak up, unlike in Israel, where Jews do speak up against wrongs. By the way, the principle of what is good for goose.... applies to Hindus, Muslims and Christians as well.

My mission is for people to see demystify the myth of others, as that myth is ours too.

Mike Ghouse

Farhan,

It is not an impossible mission. Possibilities exists because each one of us, you, me, Ruvy and others believe it will happen.

The extremists in all faiths are very passionate about what they do, they jump at the command and stick with the leadership,(they surrender to the will of their leaders and rarely employ their mind) whereas that passion is missing among the moderates. The time has come for us to speak up and out strongly.

The ugliness of Bush/Cheney gang persists in the world because the darned good for nothing majority hesitate, by nature they are not loud enough to condemn their missions. By the way I am a Republican, a moderate one. There aren't that many of us, but the seed is sown and will take time to for the Republicans to get off the hard core mindset to the middle of the line, which most Americans (or any public in any nation) are.

The chief difference between the extremists (neo-cons, Hindutavadis, extreme Zionists and Islamists) and us the moderate is they drive the herd with fear, and we have hope to dangle and not many not find it interesting. Theirs is tangible and ours is intangible.

The neocons (all faiths) feast on every instance like the one in Sudan and Saudi Arabia, while the other extremists feed them. We should not stay quite and become a spectator, we have to do the right thing. The least we can do is speak up.

Mike Ghouse

Mike..

Good post and very timely.

Condemning bad is very theraputic for society. Especially from members of communities on whose name bad is committed. Also when it is committed by a fellow member and rest of the community had nothing doing with it. It allows stray or local incidents from escalating into us vs them hostility. Silence or looking other way usually allows the other side to mobilize the outrage of the incident to make a bigger issue out of it, whose consequences can come back to haunt entire communities. So silence and looking other way is never an option. After the issue has taken confrontational overtones and damage is already done, coming out of the shell and hitherto silence to pour condemnation and outrage is rarely effective and stand accused of partisan posturing and exploitation for political ends.

I agree that all religions have something good in them which holds these religions togather and they also somethings bad. They all have their minding-their-own-business majorities and small bend of fanatics out to change the world in their religions' mirror image. Religions have to find ways to wrest power away from their fanatics and fundamentalists by creating other power-centers within, empowering moderates - some religions so have mechanism to do that, some do not. And that is the crux of problem - because it gives fanatics of other religions an imperative and urgency to empower themselves at the expense of moderates. Ultimately. merit of religions in modern society have to be judged on this, not by how much good they do and what is actually meant in their scriptures. Otherwise, Nazism and communism too had their ardent followers and they too did lots of good work and they too had their share of fanatics and they too can claim they had to do terrible things for maintaining purity, purpose and self-defense of their menifestos. So how are religions any better? What if communists were to claim communism was good but only people did not follow it right and only its fanatics were to blame and not communism? That can not be how religions or ideologies can be measured. How well they are able to self-police their own worst instincts and their own worst elements is the critical yardstick.

smallsquirrel

I said, were the IRA ever referred to by the christian media as a CATHOLIC terrorist group?
NO...never! although they had every right to wage war with the Brits.
How much money did Irish-Americans give to the IRA in the 70s and 80s, I wonder?
the Brits bomb Afghan and Iraqi villages, why the f#$k did they never bomb Irish villages?! cause they're full of white christians? I imagine that you never thought of it this way.
how do I feel about Canada (in Afghanistan)? I hope all those christian MFers die. I love reading my morning paper and hearing about another dead canadian/christian soldie...and that goes for all foreign euro/christian neo-imperialists in Afghanistan, Iraq, and everywhere else.
no matter how hard you try, how long you live in India, how well you speak an Indian language you will never understand what it feels like to be the Other in this world.

Parmdan,

We Jews all know what it means to be the Other in the world. For all her differences with me in her views, Smallsquirrel knows as well as I. We both know what it means to hear Christ-killer, god-killer, Jew bastard, kike, and all the other shit the goyim threw our way in America. We all know what it means to be worried about a pogrom, even if we never experienced it ourselves. Some of us had to fight hateful scum throughout our entire childhoods because we are Jews. Screw the pictures of Auschwitz. We see the old folks with the blue numbers tatooed on the arm, the numbers they didn't want to talk about for years - and we know. And when they finally do talk about it we want to break down and cry. But the show goes on, and we cannot afford to break down or to cry, except in the darkness, hidden from a world sick with the gimmes - gimme this, gimme that! And here in the Middle East, I hear itbáH al-yahúd! (slaughter the Jews!) and al-yahúd klabná (the Jews are ur dogs). So we know.

Smallsquirrel and I have walked different paths, and therefore have different views, but neither of us needed to know any languages of India to know the language of oppression, and about being the Other.

If you want to wag your finger of self-righteousness, wag it at someone else.

When we all know that the cases highlighted in this article are nothing to do with Islam then why should we be outraged? Saudi and Sudan are as much islamic states as Israel and the US. We forget that the creators of the state of saudi arabia were the destroyers of the ottoman state -the last islamic khilafah/state.

the darfur crisis is one engineered by the western powers to access to sudan's natural resources i.e. oil and gas.

judge islamic laws by the actions of a caliphate. you yourself highlight the example of the 2nd caliph omar ibn khattab. these are the people to use as examples of islamic law in practice whether good or bad.

to go on the back foot everytime the media highlight some bad actions by muslims mean putting islam on trial every other second. this is a sign of deep insecurity.

do we trial christian america or the west for 2 world wars, use of atomic weapons, conquest of small 3rd world countries like vietnam? NO.

Islam doesnt need defending. the worlds truth seekers whether muslim or not know the real culprits and reasons behind contemporary troubles.

Mike:

You are close to being right, you will be right in a few more years.

Dear Mike,

I provided the reference!!!!

ruvy.. thank you, I could not have said that better myself. some people just really need to feel like they are the only people on earth that have ever been persecuted. like it is a badge of honor or something

parmdan... you are truly sad. and sick. and you don't make sense. and you're hateful.

on these grounds I am pretty much done with you. you just want a punching bag, not a dialog.

Kerty (#47)

I just cannot admire your note... I was writing one similar article, but I will defer to you, your words are just perfect and express my sentiments. Please write a full blown article on that. It will hit the target in the bulls eyes.

Mike Ghouse

Mudassar Rana,

Please refer to Kerty's note (#47), it has the answers to your forthright comments.

Our goal,the people with a conscience and people who care about peace in the world in general, and the Muslims who sing a song about Islam being peace in particular, have additional burden to do the work of peace.

I do agree with you 100% that the majority of any group knows the truth, that it is the work of fringe element and it is.

However, when you see the fringe group constantly violate the rules, in the case of Sudan, the government was involved in it and shamelessly they took pride in it that they have reduced the punishment to 15 days. There should not have been any punishment at all, she did not make a deliberate mistake, it was an honest cultural conflict she did not understand. Average people do that every day.

It is our obligation to condemn such a wrong, if not, it is a blanket authorization to others to continue.

The Saudis? I do not think it is an Islamic government in any form, monarcy is not Islamic, the prophet wanted leaders to be selected with consensus, sort of democratic system. The prophet was not in favor of hereditary leadership either, he knew, it would become corrupt. I have written and talked about it at lenght, but for now, Saudi is not an Islamic Govt.

To call their brutal laws Islamic is a shame, and if we do not condemn it, we are silently approving it.

The evil exists in the world not because of evil people, but because the good people don't do anything about it.

Mike Ghouse

Sam,

Without any doubt, you provided the reference, it is indeed acknowledged and appreciated.

Thank you my friend.

Mike Ghouse

Ruvy,

I fully understand the agony and the pain the Jewish community endures. I empahtize and respect the capacity of the community to bear it.

The worst case of betrayal came in Germany, when after nearly a 2000 years of diaspora, the Jews integrated into the society, believed, they were no different, believed they were a part of it. In all reality, the fascist criminals did not accept the genuine sincere effort of Jews then.

Although a majority of Christians do not have ill-will, there are enough of those few evil men who call Christ-Killer and the other phrases you have mentioned.

Every day, some where or the other comments are hurled at Jews. Two years ago, in the Dallas City council, a council man referred to another council person as "You people", meaning Jewish is some thing less. I was outraged and Dallas Morning News published my outrage then, not only that several Muslims were outraged with that kind of attitude by the council person.

Ruvy, it is the small things we have to guard... you had said a beautiful phrase somewhere above that every day we discover myth busting every day... welcome to the world of....

You, me, and every one who is committed to creating a better world, have to keep working at it, I know we can at least let a few people see that there is good in accepting and respecting the God given uniquness to each one of us.

Mike Ghouse

Mike,

My hat is off to you and to any who are determined to reclaim their religion from the fanatics.

A person can take any belief system and warp it into a reason to legitimize hatred and bigotry. It is up to all of us to utilize reason and love to penetrate these kinds of narrow minded acts and beliefs. Often the scariest actions are not those of the perpetrators but rather of those who look upon them with apathy.

We can not afford to ignore those who warp any beautiful religion into their own ends. A few days ago a gentlemen asked me about my upcoming trip to Malaysia to speak with 300 Muslim women, (I'm not Muslim by the way), where I am supposed to speak about how to balance preserving one's culture in the face of globalization without resorting to violence. The man had to gall to suggest that I tell these women to change to some other religion than Islam. I had to struggle not to spit up my water, as he said it when I was in mid sip! I asked him calmly why he thought that and he answered, "Well look at all the extremists out there!" So I asked him if he thought the Ku Klux Klan exemplified Christianity. Of course he said, "No". So then I asked him, "But they say they do." Of course he said, "But I'm a Christian and I have do not abide by their awful belief systems. They just warp our Bible." I smiled at him and said, "Exactly." The light went off in his head at that moment.

All of us hold our spirituality as a deeply private matter...I'm not talking about the public charms around our necks of star of Davids, crosses, or even a Wiccan pentacle. I'm not talking about showing up for church in your Sunday best. I'm talking about our conversations with God that occur inside our heads and hearts in those sacred moments of the days or night. We would each feel this communion with the Divine with or without the aid of any one religious practice. But for some reason people like to think that they can lay claim to what that holy relationship is between other individuals and the Divine. What arrogance!

Perhaps the greatest answer to fanatics of any kind is to ask where is their humility? I mean, at what point does any one individual believe he or she can speak for what another's beliefs and spiritual practices should be and how they should be practiced. And how should any one of us begin to judge another for being less a Christian, a Jew, a Moslem, a Native American, a Hindu, a Wiccan, a Zoroastrian, a HUMAN BEING than who we are?

Again, Mike, my hat is off to you for standing up for your faith's true beauty in the face of extremists who claim to speak for all Muslims. For mankind to progress past these kinds of socio-pseudo-religion "takeovers", we will all need to practice the same kind of humility, respect, passion and grace as you have.

Stay Inspired!

Mary Ann Thompson-Frenk

Mary:

wish you success in your upcoming malaysian trip

when will you visit the west bank and address palestinian mothers, widows and orphans with your wonderful message about how to balance preserving one's culture in the face of globalization without resorting to violence?

they could surely use it and pass it on to their children so our world can be less violent

you could also make a side trip to tel aviv and speak with the mothers, widows and orphans there too

smallsquirrel AND Ruvy

so does the suffering of the Jews at the hands of the Christians give Isreal the right to treat the Palestinians like shit? to make Gaza into the biggest prison in the world? to apply the same apartheid policies on Arabs that the whites used against the Africans and Asians in South Africa?

Mary..

Good luck to you, though I doubt it makes much difference talking to groups if they are already sold on to preserving their cultures - I mean fundamentalists are not doing bad job of fighting off threats to their cultures and if people are worried about their culture being eroded by anything, they are more likely to turn to their fundamentalists, and not all of them engage in violence as a first resort, they do have power of persuasion - it is when they have to deal with opponents they end up using heavy-handed tactics.

I do not know where did you get 'All of us hold our spirituality as a deeply private matter..', not when mankind needs to be saved, not when their religion is so universal it can not be individualized for personal interpretations nor any aspect/sphere of life be kept away from its universalism.

I don't know what kind of God is available to you for private one-on-one conversation - for God has stopped talking to anybody long time back and God is not in or of creation, period. Last time somebody claimed to have spoken with God, people hailed them as prophets and their words as final word on/of God - God has no more to say to anybody in creation, God was accessible to only chosen ones and that act is done and over with, God has permanently retired for eternity now. Are you sure you are not conversing with your own demons in your brain?

May be KKK or Nazis do not exemplify xianity. Xianity has gone thru reforms, enlightenment, Renaissance and it had to be separated from state. Not all religions have gone through similar phases and to presume that what applies to xianity would apply to such religions as well is over generalization.

Mary Ann,

I know you will do a great job in building bridges in Malaysia and inspiring people to do be good beings.

All it takes is for each one in our groups, including this particular group to become ambassadors of peace - their words and actions reduce conflicts and gives hope.

Let's not look to someone else, neither keep a score on others. Let's bring the peace to our own soul first... peace is possible, if we are peace first.

Thank you Mary Ann for such an inspirational message.

Mike ghouse

Mary:
With all due respect to you, I (know your intentions are not that but just) want to bring one fact that Proselytizing in Malaysia is banned.

Sorry..I will be clear now.
Proselytizing is banned for MUSLIMS only. But Proselytizing on Hindus and Buddists is allowed.
(Now I understand how the World's top two religions are maintaining their numbers.)

Razor,

It is a shame indeed, and we have condemned this at least three times:

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/05/malaysian-apostasy-case.html

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/06/muslims-affirm-freedom.html

Conflict erupts because of arrogance, arrogance that my faith is superior and thus, the others need to learn. My system of governance is superior thus others need to follow..

Let me apply what is good for the goose.... gander, applies here:

Look at our big country USA... just a few idiots are running this nation and creating havoc around the world, terrorising nations and butchering millions, and we the good for nothing silent majority is screaming, and those gutless, useless democracts are scared to stop this bullying...even though we have given them the majority in both houses.

The few extremists Malaysians could justify their wrong doing on the above principle. They care less what the world thinks. If we, the united states can regain our moral standing in the world, like we had before, we can be an example to the world to goad into changes with love and by example.

Last night I was watching Geraldo Riviera at large, he was interviewing someone in Sudan... and asks the other reporter "Aren't the Sudanese ashamed of what the world thinks of them?... ho ho ho. Isn't our president ashamed of what the world thinks of us? Geraldo does not have the brains to ask that question to our president. Just us,UK, Egypt and Israel ,four against 192 nations?

A few comments expressed were holier than thou attitude in this forum.

As they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I say, faith is in the heart of the believer.

Let me assert, I am a Muslim, and Islam suits me fine, but, never, ever, I will claim that my faith is superior to any other, all are divine to me, all faiths are here to makes us better beings.

Mike Ghouse, I am still a Republican, a moderate one for that matter.

parmdan.. does the problems perpetrated by some christians give you the right to be a heinous bigot and spread hate and misperception everywhere you go?

why do you INSIST on applying views to me that I do not subscribe to. and honestly, it's all good and fine for you to go ON AND ON about the middle east, but me thinks you have never been there. Ruvy lives there and deals with it every day.

please stop your clap-trap armchair pseudointellectual hate-filled philosophizing. it's old already.

smallsquirrel

you have not answered one of my questions on the apartheid state of Israel. do you deny that this is happening? do you think Ruvy would be dealing with it everyday if his government was not perpetrating these atrocities on the Palestinian people? was it not the Israeli army that leveled Beirut and killed thousands las summer? but I guess in the Middle East Israeli (Jewish only..not the Arabs) lives are worth more than Arab or Palestinian lives?
remember that the Balfour Declaration called for a Palestinian state. where the hell is it?
And tell me, what are my misperceptions that I'm spreading?
would you have defended the rights of whites in South Africa during the Apartheid era?

parmdan, I am sick of this. I answer your questions, you don't read the answers then you ask them again. it's ridiculous and I do not have time or the energy or the inclination for it. scroll up, read the links I posted and stop being ridiculous and asking the same shit over and over.

as for ruvy, as he has said.. he and I don't share the same politics. that being said, it's awfully easy to have an opinion on something when it does not impact your life directly. like just about everything you comment on. you HATE HATE HATE the west yet you suckle off it's teat nicely, don't you? if you hate it so much, get some balls and go live somewhere you support. or work to change it. do something productive rather than shooting off your mouth and not saying anything of value. or in your spare time learn how to read, cause that is clearly not your strong point.

my problems are not with condemning the actions of either sudan or saudi arabia - because to me they are worse than the state of israel because they claim to be islamic and are not.

secondly as muslims we must be aware of the siege mentality and constantly trying to justify oursleves. I feel there is no need and am more than confident in my deen and belief.

Islam as a political,economic socio-legal force should be judged by the actions of an islamic caliphate. Sudan and saudi do not equate to a caliphate. In fact as you will be aware Saudi is the only country named after a family and was created by the british in 1924 to split the ottoman empire. We must remember if we clothed a supermodel in muslim dress she doesnt become muslim and similarly if a country's populace is muslim its rules dont have to be. Indeed if a country were in this day and age to declare the caliphate the US and western powers would do its utmost to finish it off as the muslim worlds natural resources would be used to furnish islamic peoples and ideals and not western multi-nationals.

I have never read your work before but i sincerely hope that you condemn the oppression of muslims in their millions by america and the west in the same way that you have been outraged over the teddy bear incident.

smallsquirrel

so your a historian? a political scientist? please tell me what books I should read because I've had my head in a hole for the last few decades.what books would you recommend that I read on politics and history (this is not a rhetorical question. if you presume that I dont read then lets see what you know)? Everywhere I've been I meet people like you...western and white. they think they know all the answers and enjoy enlightening us "coloured folk." doing Whiteman's Burden. It must be such a heavy load to carry for you.
I dont spread HATE HATE HATE, you people have been doing such a great job for the last 500 years that you've left nothing for us.
SO I will ask again: Is Israel an apartheid state? and why is the west not doing anything about it?

Yay! Bring on the racism charge! Lol....

#68

your query is misdirected

direct it to ruvy the resident apologist

Dear Mudassar,

I fully understand the frustration you have.

We are constantly justifying ourselves because we rarely speak out on our own wrongs. I do worry about the wrongs others do, but my first goal is to clean myself. We need to get into the position of casting the first stone, we are not there and we need to start to walk towards that point.

I admire your confidence in your faith and I am pleased with mine as well and I have no problem being open about who we are - like every one else we have a great faith to follow, and like every group, we have our own extremists. We have to own them all; good, bad and ugly. We have to apologize for our mistakes and not worry about loosening political points, remember Qur'aan is clear - God loves those who forgive and be truthful to themselves.

You made a good point about judging Islam by the Caliphate, a government that believes in Justice, kindness and equity for all. That would be a good rule if God himself (herself or itself) heads the kingdom, but that ain't going to happen. The Caliphate had a share of bad caliphs as well, the fifth or sixth one was not a good feller, most of them were good. We are human and we make mistakes, and it is not exclusive to us, the Pope's have made grave mistakes, almost being anti-Christ. I am sure you will find that in every faith.

The societies are no more single celled individuals, there will not be a city in the world in a decade, where you would not find at least half a dozen faiths living in it. Given that, either a secular or a pluralistic form of Democracy is the right thing, respecting and honoring all the God's children. I am completely opposed to every form of religious governance - as they are not run by pious people but the politicians who emerge out of conflicts and survive with conflicts. I am against Caliphate in any form or shape, as I know, some one is bound to make a mistake. In Pakistan for instance, they declared Ahmadiyya's to be non-Muslims, The Mufti of Mecca declared Shia's to be Non-Muslims, and If Ayatollah declares Sunnis to be non-Muslims at least in his country - then no one in the world would be a Muslim, it is against Islam to pre-judge any being, only God reserves that right and on an elusive future date.

So my friend, a majority of Muslims, deep down in their hearts do not want Caliphate. The United States and Western powers don't have to do that, we will do it ourselves because we do not want one ideology imposed on us. We humans love freedom and remember, one of Islam's goal was to free people from the clutches of clergy, thanks God for that. Most of us are free except those few. The counter argument I get is we can be united, my responses is no, it will not happen. We are humans, and we cannot forge unity when we are so different. Personally I will stand against that caliphate along with 1.4 billion Muslims for the reasons I have cited.

I am a Muslim and it is my duty to bring peace and reduce conflicts in the world, that was the first model prophet Muhammad showed us, when he brought the conflicting parties together to lift the Aswad Stone to set it in Mecca, every one participate in it. That is a shining example of a Muslim who minimized conflicts and foster good will. Prophet Muhammad had no gains from it, but bringing peace to the community. Let's follow that model.

Mudassar, thanks to Allah, the God, I have earned respect from every community - Atheists, Baha'I, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jain, Jewish, Shinto, Sikh, Wicca, Zoroastrian and few native African and American tribes. Look up the website www.foundationforPluralism.com that has documented some of my work, a whole lot needs to be uploaded on it. I am fair in my criticism and in my love for God's children.

The only people who do not like my work are clearly the 1/10th of 1% of faith based groups - it boils down to: Islamists, neocons, Zionists, Hindutvadis to list a few. I am not against them at all, I would like them to see that their efforts instead goes into peace, the world would be a much better place. I will have to reluctantly live with their animosity and threats.

No one can shake you, if you do good.

Mike Ghouse

Parmdan,

I see you are still harassing smallsqirrel over your propaganda filled questions.

From what little I read of what you write, you do not know jack shit about the Middle East or about Arab society, or about how societies in this part of the world organize themselves. If you did, you would not attempt to use appellations like apartheid. Anamika, who basically uses the "settler state" analogy in her analysis is as misguided as you are. But at least she reads and clearly comprehends issues and can bring evidence to back up her point of view. I may not like how she comprehends these issues. But she can see beyond propaganda most of the time. And often, she provides insightful analyses of her own that are helpful to me.

You unfortunately appear unable to do any of these things.

So, to indulge you and to shut you up, both.

Go to my links in comment #42 of this comment thread, particularly my article about Hanukkah. It, unfortunately, is most timely. Read there. You'll see plenty of my view of the world, and you will understand how and why I cope with living in this part of the world. Also, go to my writer's page here at Desicritics.

smallsqirrel,

Speaking of Hanukkah -

Did you manage to eat any latkes (potato pancakes)? Did you find any sufganyot (jelly doughnuts)in Bangalore?

Are you able to light a Hanukkiah outdoors there, where everyone can see it?

In Ma'ale levona, if you want to light candles outdoors, you have to put them in a glass enclosure so the wind on the hilltop won't blow them out. I don't have the glass enclosure - and it's getting cold here at night, so I don't want to stay outside to contemplate them....

Ruvy,

so you're saying that Arabs in Israel have the EXACT same rights as Jews? You country talks of bombing Iran over its nuclear program yet you hypocrites possess how many hundreds of nuclear bombs!? What about the so-called security wall? do you have any answers to these questions!? what the Jews do to the Palestinians is worse than what the whites did to the Africans in South Africa. You people are a bunch of fascists!

dear mike,

i have no problem with your work - please continue. I have a general problem with apologising for leaders who to cover their own inadequacies with the veil of islam. then i have a problem with western superpowers crying fowl when one of their own is wronged, yet these same people shout "rule of law" when innocent muslims are banged up without charge and legal recourse.

I harked back to the caliphate because that is in essence islamic law in practice. Im sure your aware that people of other religions lived in peace with muslims under this law. Infact Professor Meyer Kaplan of Israel has even suggested that it is the only way the problem of palestine can be solved.

I firmly disagree with your assessment that muslims dont wish for caliphate. Because secular laws all over the muslim world has brought nothing but disgrace upon muslims. Infact there are ayats in the quran that refer to leaders who do not rule by what allah has revealed as "oppressors", "wrong doers/transgessors" and "kaafir".

As far as you earning respect from different communities because of your work - I never denied this and wish you to continue. Yes the Prophet s.a.w. role was one to bring peace and mercy to this world but I believe that it can only be done via a state and not on an individual level. Because surely peace and mercy encompasses the eradication of poverty and this cant be done with capitalism, charity, or even pop concerts!

As far as the imams of makkah saying shia are kaafir or pakistan not allowing qadianis to refer themselves as muslims is concerned - these are all decisions made by corrupt nation states and not of an islamic caliphate. nevertheless the qadiani's are not muslim as the do not believe in the finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad s.a.w. Also please understand that Saudi Arabia is a creation of the british empire and a monarchy that has different rules for its citizens,rich western foreigners and poor pakistani/bengali/phillipino's is certainly not islamic. and chopping of hands of poor immigrant workers is certainly not!

Islam from my understanding is not a religion just for rituals it is a message to humanity to organise their whole affairs and that is in the true sense of "abidoon" i.e. obedience which Allah created us for.Man made laws have made the lives of the masses a misery and an elite have filled their bank balances.

The following verses of Qur'an, are just a few of the Islamic evidences that clearly demonstrate that Islam came to decide all matters. Secularism denies Islam any say in politics. Allah (swt) revealed in the Qur'an:

"But no, by Your Lord, they can have no (real) faith until they make you (Muhammad s.a.w)judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest submission." [TMQ 4:65]

"And if you judge between people, judge with justice." [TQM 4:58]

"Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you in authority..." [TMQ 4:59]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are disbelievers." [TMQ 5:44]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors." [TMQ 5:45]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors." [TMQ 5:47]

"So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their desires away from the truth that has come to you." [TMQ 5:48]

"Judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their desires but beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has revealed to you." [TMQ 5:49]

"The rule is to none but Allah." [TMQ 6:57]


The prophet Muhammad below in a hadith prophecises the return of the caliphate rashidah (based on the prophethood)


"The Prophethood will remain among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it when He wishes to, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (Rightly Guided) on the method of the Prophethood, it will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if he wishes, then it will be a tyrannical rule, and it will remain so for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophethood, then he kept silent."

The tyranical rule is what we are living in today. Also the hereditary leadership is sometimes referred to a biting monarchy in some transalations which refers to what you were saying about some caliphs being corrupt.

I also wholly disagree that because muslims and non-muslims are living in a so-called melting pot they would rise against a future caliphate. I think the people of Palestine, Bosnia, Kashmir, Iraq, Kashmir would really disagree with you.

I apologise for the long post. My previous posts in no way intended to decry your work, but only to illustrate my frustration at muslims apologises or feeling bad for things that are nothing to do with islam. We dont see the british apologising when muslims are harassed and arrested without evidence, and I sincerely feel that we are beginning to suffer from an inferiority complex. Soon we will be apologising for the holocaust!!

best regards and Salaam Alaikam

Yawn! What started as a promising article again got into the usual muslim breast beating mode:everybody's is against Islam!!

few points in my mind:
1.Why is that any barbaric law enacted by the Islamic countries dismissed with a line 'these are not truly Islamic countries' by almost all muslims.
2.Then how come an attack on any country with a muslim population is an attack on Islam,when they are not truly Islamic nations?
3.US has attacked/needled other non-muslim states like North Korea,many south American states like venezuela,Nacaragua.Why are not these considered against a particular religion/race?

Let's take a look:
a).Afghanistan was bombed because the satanic Taliban refused to co-operate with the 9/11 investigations.The attack was good because the pre-historic talibans were defeated for some time at least.
b).Iran is ruled by a psycho who keeps coming up with threats of wiping nations off the map.It's good for the world if this psycho is also driven out.
c).Iraq was the biggest mistake.It dethroned the only sensible muslim(but not Islamic) ruler who kicked the believer's ass.

Out of three wars of US 'against' Islam,only one seems to be wrong.What about the US coming to the aid of muslims in Bosnia?Will the ungrateful muslims realise this ever?

Still,people would like us to belive that only a few muslims are extremists.Locking up a teacher for a 'mistake' commited by students is a sign of peacefulness?Why allah-the so called most merciful sent a messenger whose name can't be given to a Teddy by children?Is one expected to enroll in a madarsa and learn kuran before taking up a teaching job in a nation of muslims?Do the muslims learn anything abt the coutry when they migrate to US or Europe?Muslim hypocisy and double standard knows no bounds.Their god is always addressed as the 'most merciful' but the minutest 'prank' cannot be tolerated by the followers of these so called merciful god.

Dear Bong Buster:


"a).Afghanistan was bombed because the satanic Taliban refused to co-operate with the 9/11 investigations.The attack was good because the pre-historic talibans were defeated for some time at least."

What 9/11 investigations? Can you name any investigations into 9/11? The FBI site does not even carry 9/11 with Osama's name because according to Rex Tomb, the FBI's Chief of Investigative Publicity, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."


And moreover, the Taliban only asked for evidence. Are you saying if the US asks any country to hand over a person without any charge or evidence, they should do so? Why? The US did not even hand over CIA agents for trial in Italy over kidnapping of a citizen.

In fact the Taliban made several overtures

1. they asked for evidence
2. they agreed to conduct a trial in Afghanistan
3. they agreed to hand over Osama to a third neutral party.

The US refused all three offers. Now after several years of bombing innocent citizenss, Bush says that Osama is not a priority. wtf? You killed countless civilians "we don't do body counts" and now Osama is not a priority?