Narendra Modi and the Tehelka Expose

Tremendously well written.... point by point rebuttals don't sit well with a lot of people... (it takes a lot of effort to refute them)

But the key points as i understand them are this:

1. Is the Right (Hindu Nationalists as they like to refer to themselves), going to turn this into a partisan fight backing Modi to the hilt? Ravi Shankar Prasad laughed things off by saying that these were some people who were "boasting"! - That's worrying to say the least!

2. The value of the sting is that it is apparently unvarnished, first person evidence - uninterpreted. And so while there may be genuine ethical questions about "stings" - id say that in certain instances (such as this one or match fixing or election corruption), they are justified.

There is no defense for this - the question is whether this is going to be seen a "politics" or as something far more fundamental.

The argument that this will somehow help the BJP (Vaghela - BJP man turned Congressman), is disgusting...

Thanks Amrita for framing the issue so well....

ams:

well articulated

Some of you will ask what about the karsevaks that died in the train fire? Did they not deserve justice as well?

And the answer to that is yes. Of course they did.

But thanks to the actions of their co-religionists, they'll never receive it now.

Their death and their corpses have become macabre pawns in the political games of the Sangh Parivar. They'll always be remembered as the catalysts for a massacre rather than living breathing people who left behind families that deserve some answers. No matter what verdict the courts decide upon regarding their death, some part of India will always find fault with it.

gujrat has a lot going for it and modi should get a credit where he deserves

but

along with that also comes the discredit that no matter what he does, he will never be able to live down

he will go down as a petty politician not a statesman

which is a pity

The funniest thing in the indian politics are even the culprit who did a crime in front of court premises will go through a very long trial & finally will get sufficient time to get bail & so on.
Its now going to happen in modi case & not to our surprise will win the ellection.
Things to do are
1.To arrest all the involved in the video & to put to intterogation to bring out the black files behind it.
2To give a extreme punish ment & to interview the wife & children of the culprit & to broad cast in all the tv channel to know the opinion of them

the 'agni' then was used by the wrong hands to do devilish things under the leadership of modern hitlor.
and truth is never hidden. it comes out to seek justice at the right time decided by it. and 'the agni' is never satisfied until justice is fully done!!
now the agni media has helped truth in its voyage. and people like you happily & boldly join their march. i am happy to see so many people help democracy be alive.
Let Mother India reward u!
and it also persuades crores of indians to march against the follies of religion & communalism and the crimes thereby committed in hisory which are unforgivable & unforgettable!!
a stern action against such crimes is a must and justice should be provided to the affected. death sentence may be avoidable in democracy; but FOR CRIMES SUCH AS THESE AGAINST THE VERY ROOTS OF DEMOCRACY, HERE, DEATH SENTENCE IS A MUST.

Amrita: All of these are things that might conceivably hurt its chances in the upcoming elections in Gujarat. Doing the honorable thing is usually also the toughest option you have on the table. Instead, they're following the tactics of the Congress post-1984. Because that's what Ram would do, I guess.

Chandra: I will be suprised if NM loses the elections. Afterall, Rajiv won a thumping majority after the 1984 massacres.

Temporal makes an excellent point.... the way to ensure that those who died in the Train fire got justice was to have conducted a professional, rigorous inquiry/investigation.

The State should have ensured such an investigation...

Indira Gandhi got voted back in.

Thapar conducted an ambush interview. There's no point in trying to discuss the riots by interviewing Modi, since the Hindu politician is always going to be blamed -- when is that not the case?

Anybody who's a nationalist will always get scapegoated by the dishonest Left, who will simply resort to the tactic of repeating lies over and over again until they can label it the truth.

Let's look at Tehelka's other infamous "exposee" -- the sting done mainly against BJP MPs, with a couple of Congress MPs thrown in for so-called "impartiality". The reason for Tehelka's conveniently-timed "exposee" was of course the tremendous embarrassment of the Congress govt in the wake of the Volker Report's implicating Natwar Singh in Iraq's oil-for-food bribery scam.

So much for Tehelka's "credibility". :P

Sanjay... your point is?

The Congress doesn't benefit from this because in their desperation to win power in Gujarat, they have befriended the rebel BJP, one of whom is Gordhan Zhadaphia.... who is heavily implicated in Tehelka's sting...

If you can figure out that Tehelka's expose has something to do with the elections, surely you can figure out what anyone who wanted to destroy the Congress would have to say in order to destroy their credibility..... :)

The Congress benefits from anyone trying to destroy their rivals. The rebels and the Congress are against Modi, so certainly Congress benefits from any attempt to slander him. Again, the goal of this Tehelka stunt is to get some selective soundbites to trump up a case against Modi, and hopefully give the Congress a larger piece of the political pie.

The N-Deal is in jeopardy, and Congress is the only party which is supporting it. Therefore all efforts are being made to get the Congress as much political space as possible. The BJP is thus the juiciest target to grab political turf from.

Congress wants to retain its rule by hook or by crook. They're signalling to the Americans that they want to keep power, and the N-Deal is their bargaining chip. They're telling the Americans that if the Whitehouse wants the precious N-Deal -- which it certainly does -- that "help" is going to have to be provided to give the Congress more political room to maneuver. Therefore forces on both sides of the ocean are going to pull out all the stops to get Congress the maneuvering room it needs. This means getting Congress more seats, so that its political situation is not so precarious, and so that it's not so beholden to the obstructionist coalition partners.

I've supported the N-Deal in the past, but as far as I'm concerned, "Only Nixon Can Go to China" -- only a nationalist party like the BJP has the credibility on the national security front to deliver an N-Deal with the US.

Sanjay.. why is this even a political issue?

As Amrita and many others have suggested - lets suppose for a moment that Tehelka is a Congress front - lets assume this particular sting was instigated by the Congress...

It should be easy enough for the BJP to destroy the Congress if all the stuff said here is fake....

If it isn't, then how does it matter how this evidence came about, as long as it is genuine?

Its quite amazing how cynical everybody has become.... the gujarat elections are irrelevant in my view...

This is far more crucial...

Looks like sanjay will go to any extent to support BJP and defame Congress & let alone praising murderers mudering unborn babies.

Well lets go with your logic or politics !

India is growing at the rate of 8 + % from past few years & its termed as a achievment in itself, foreign investments are seeing a healthy increase, unemployement is reducing ! now who is ruling the country - iam sure its not BJP.

Ohh wait - reforms in 1991 which changed the face of the India were started by whom ?? i am sure you have an answer ! & what not

and by looking at the history of growth i would go by Congress.

Wait you got me off guard here - i should admire your ability to stir up the discussion by linking Earth to Sky.

i dont give a fuck about N-Deal nor would give a fuck about BJP or Congress.

What matters to me is, should this child killers be let to roam free in our society ?? i know you have an answer.

i would surely like to discuss about Gay Marriages & Contisipation .............

Kartikeya wrote:
"the gujarat elections are irrelevant in my view"

They're centrally relevant -- they are the reason that the Congress and its allies are trying to engineer hate campaigns to demonize their political opponents.

When Manmohan Singh was campaigning for election in 1992, and he was asked who carried out the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, he unhesitatingly replied that it was the RSS who were responsible for the 1984 riots.

But, according to your "reasoning", what does it matter about how such "truth" gets out? Of course, the presumption being that it's truth. So then let us all repeat ("discuss") this "truth" again and again, until it becomes universally accepted.

It's clear that Congress intends to be the type of political victor that writes the history books.

Muddy-the-mudslinger, it was PV Narasimha Rao who started the economic reforms, and not that midget Manmohan Singh or the Congress. It was Sonia, Arjun Singh, Chidambaram and the rest who stabbed Rao in the back, rather than support him during the tenuous reform period.

Please don't spew out more "truth" about how the Left-wing Congress Party, which kept India trapped in Fabian Socialism for the past 60 years, is to be congratulated as a bunch of free-market reformers.

Modi's approach to economic reform is far more focused and coherent than the vacillating, one-step-forward-one-step-backward Congress approach to economic reform. As if Congress has any ideology other than "Look at me! Worship me!"

Muddy-the-mudslinger wants to punish the "child-killers"

And Muddy's "truth" is that Modi went around killing children. What garbage -- talk about "Muddy-ing the waters"!

So when some family in J&K gets their throats slit, we "must be careful not to generalize the blame", but if Muddy's upset about Gujarat, then he wants to invert the standards, so that the Muddy glass is called half-empty and not half-full. Good job, Muddy.

Sanjay, granted that Modi maybe an above average performer in terms of administration, so was Hitler, but you are probably a skin head anyway... Surely after all that has come out there must be some iota of truth about Modi's hand in the genocide that was carried out on the Muslims.. what kind of a twisted and demented person would support a guy like Modi after knowing that he was deeply involved in those killings... 2002 godhra was probably free indias most shameful moment..

I will sum it up....
If Swami Vivekananda is born in these times he will be called a "Hindutva fanatic", hate monger and he who takes our country to pre-historic times.
This is our power of pseudo-secular media.

"....So that's where all the Bofors money is going. No wonder the NDA sat on that investigation while it was in office."..

So what did Congress try to do when they are in power. Why they dint put enquiry and arrested him. Forget politics here. Just tell why they dint touch him?

Why are making Indian people judgemental when the ruling party in center and SUPREME COURT dint do for 6 years !!!!!?????

razor..get real! Vivekananda would not saction raping looting and killing of innocent people... government in india is toothless regardless of the crime and the victim. And the Supreme court will take its own sweet time.. If going by the same argument about "Indian people being judgemental", why were the trishul happy gujrati hindus judgemental after the godhra train arson and decide to punish the 'muslim perpetratos'. Surely since the BJP was in power they could have waited for justice to take its course..
It is interesting how these right winging critics shift the blame to the media!

1) First of all have some respect on Swami Vivekananda. The merry fact that you addressed him as "vivekanada" shows that u dint get your scholling right or some fanatic pakisthanis-govt-sponsored blogger who dont know facts abt Indian values.
1b) If you read what Swami Vivkeanada told on Prophet..I am sure this pseudo secualar media will different story. Read this
"http://desicritics.org/mt/mt-comments.php?mode=red&u=http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19930131.htm"
2)The riots happened was sponteneous and many of Gujarat cities were involved. Both Hindu and Muslim people died.
w.......h.........y don't people get this simple fact.

3)In India we have to open all the riots where Hindu/Muslim clashes took place and if you impartially expose it then I salute you for whole my life.

4) INDIAN MEDIA IS COMPLETELY DOMINATED BY PSEUDO SECUALAR MEDIA.EVEN THE RAMA SETHU MOVEMENT STARTED IN TEXAS BY NRIS WAS GIVEN A SAFFRON COLOR AND SHOWN AS IF IT WAS DONE FOR POLITICS.
Never there was a mention of what a true Hindu layman thinks. Please read this
"http://desicritics.org/mt/mt-comments.php?mode=red&u=http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/06/pseudo-secular-mafia-of-indian-mass.html"

razor, I still do not see the relevance of bringing Vivekananda's teaching into this henious subject.
Your point 2) that it was spontaneous is exactly what Tehelka is disputing, it was cold calculated murder. If that does not shock you I do not know what will.
To see you talk in that reckless way about communal clashes indicates your own mindset. Riots anywhere should not be condoned. Especially calculated genocide.
Stop blaming the media, even if they are 'Pseudo Secularists', it does not mean that the crimes of BJP hooligans can be disregarded. The criminals are the BJP not the media.

The guilty need to be punished, there is no doubt but what I have a problem with, is that our outrage is selective and confined to specific communities.
1)Gujarat with 750 Muslims and 250 Hindus killed hogs the limelight.It is resurrected again and again completley obliterating the Hitlerian event that triggerred it.Of all the specific heinous crimes committed during the riots, there is none that matches the Godhra event in which 59 Hindu women,children and men were burnt alive in a manner reminiscent of Hitler's gas chambers. But yet every expose on Gujarat glossess over it or tries to underplay it.
2)The anti-Sikh pogrom which resulted in 3000 instigated deaths stays in the background.
3) The ethnic cleansing of 100,000 Kashmiri Pandits is all but forgotten.
Whenever I raise these topics,people assume that I am justifying what happened in Gujarat. I AM NOT.
But until we apply our morality equally to all Indians, Hindus included we cannot call ourseles civilised.Every attempt to highlight Gujarat will be looked at as a one-sided attempt at Hindu-bashing. We have a choice.Come out and condemn all these crimes with equal intensity and we can build a just, honest society.

Hey everybody, thanks for reading...

Kartikeya - thank you, I wish I didn't have an occasion to write this article. The BJP is trying its level best to turn this into a political affair and the sad thing is that we don't seem to have any political leaders left who still retain the integrity to call them on their BS. This is a tragedy on many levels: an attack on Indian citizens by their fellow citizens orchestrated by their elected representatives is horrible enough, but the fact that nobody has the gumption to follow it through at a political level is even worse IMO.

Temp - we are always judged by our actions. His legacy is of his own making. No pity here.

Anbarasu - I've long held the view that the Indian legal system needs a major overhaul but its not likely to get one soon because the present system works too well for the shadow economy. It's interesting you mention wives and children - one of the men interviewed proudly admitted to rape and said that the proof that he wasn't lying lay in the fact that he was admitting to it in front of his wife! I wonder what kind of a family that is.

Joji - I'm personally against the death sentence but yes, the level of outrage I've heard for the past few days makes me happy. I thought we'd turned into a cynical nation that looked at everything as chalta hai. I'm glad I'm wrong.

Chandra - two things: One, Rajiv won the elections immediately after the massacre - Modi has already availed himself of that particular pass.
Two, if the BJP is likely to win Gujarat because of 2002, then apologizing and repudiating those acts now would likely alienate the hardcore Hindutva people who'd vote for Modi in the present scenario. Thus my assumption that this would be a tough option for them.
On the other hand, if the BJP is certain that they can't lose the elections now no matter what, then there really is nothing to stop them from acting with integrity and taking responsibility for what happened.

[contd.]
Ramya - Indira Gandhi got voted back in after the fall of the Morarji Desai govt. And then she returned to her old tricks and got assassinated for her trouble. But immediately after the Emergency, not only did the Congress lose big time, but she herself lost her seat... from Rae Bareli no less. She went back to Parliament the next year after she won a by-election far to the south in Chikmanglur, which, if memory serves me correct, is one of the places that Sonia Gandhi also contested elections when she wasn't sure if she'd win the family seat.

Sanjay - a couple of things:
One, it is not an ambush when you schedule an interview, the subject comes to your studio, on a show called Devil's Advocate where other politicians are routinely grilled (most famously, Jayalalitha walked off in a huff when the show was called Hardtalk India and aired on the BBC) and are confronted by questions that are regularly asked of you. everywhere Modi has gone for the past few years, he was met by the same questions. why would they be a shock to him now?
Two, Tehelka's credibility is completely beside the point because of those videos they have. Unless you can prove that they somehow forced those people into saying those things, there is no point in you calling them names.
Three, as I mentioned in the post, the moment you start quoting what the Congress has done to excuse your behavior, that very moment you cease to have any moral right to criticize the Congress. If the Congress if your role model behavior wise then I am forced to believe that the only problem you have with them is that they aren't Hindutvavadi. Other than that they might very well be the BJP.
Four, There is no point in you getting angry at the other commentators on this board when they rail against you because they're doing precisely what you once used to do about the Congress. Today, you are the Congress - in saffron uniform.

[contd.]

Muddy - when there is no answer left and the truth is too hard to bear, this kind of flailing about is what you get. It's a little depressing to realize that some of these people are so hung up about Hindus and Muslims, they haven't noticed that the people dead are all Indian citizens.

Ajay - it's called denial. As long as you don't admit it, it never happened.

Razor - you're absolutely wrong. And I'll tell you why:
one, Swami Vivekananda was not a politician.
Two, there are any number of Hindu saints in this country (and I'm not talking about your corner baba here but people who travel the world and spread their knowledge of Hinduism around the world as Swami Vivekananda did at one time) and nobody calls them Hindu fanatics and their following is multi-denominational.
Three, if you read the works of Swamiji then you'll see that his focus was always on brotherhood and peace. He'd never have stood shoulder to shoulder with child murderers and rapists and arsonists just because he shared their religion.
Four, I'm a Hindu lay(wo)man and so are many others on this board. I don't remember holding an election to choose any one Hindu layman as our voice. If that one person reflects your views, it doesn't mean he reflects the views of millions of other Hindus.
Five, Please read what Ajay wrote.
Six, calling people names doesnt win you any arguments.

Vivek - thank you for saying that. do you know, you're the first right winger I've seen to even casually admit that the guilty need to be punished? As for the points you raised, as I wrote in my article the actions of the Sangh Parivar members in the days following the Godhra incident has a significant effect on how we remember that incident.
Imagine a world in which the riots hadnt happened. We would have come together as a nation and universally condemned what happened. We would have found out exactly what happened and why. We would have answers we do not have now and will never have because the case has been so mangled in the past five years (btw, Tehelka has a complete section devoted to the Godhra incident on its site. do check it out).
Instead today we are divided, calling each other names on internet boards and defending rapists and murderers. We remember Godhra as a catalyst and not an incident of itself because the riots happened. You can't divorce the two if you tried.
You're right that Kashmiri Pandits and the Sikhs deserve their day of justice as well. And while you may not have seen it, I've seen plenty of secular minded people who ask the same. The problem is that while you may not intend those questions to be reflective of bias, others on the religious right have used those incidents for so long as justification for what they do or did, that it has come to be seen like that.
If you usually vote the BJP and believe that what happened in Gujarat was wrong, then this is an excellent chance for you to stand up and take your party to task and demand that they break this cycle.
Instead of asking other people why they're not doing more, demand more from yours and yourself. If I write about Hindu fanaticism, then it's because I am a Hindu and I want more from my co-religionists. When a Muslim commits an act of terrorism there're always a bunch of rightwingers who ask why more moderate Muslims dont speak up. I do the same for my religion and they're upset that I'm putting into practice what they preach. Can't win.

It is a good attitude to look at the good side of
a person and bury the negative qualities. When those people talk highly about the achievements
of Mr. Modi, I doubt about their mindset!

Then the greatest people were Nero, Hitler,
Stalin, Pot Pol of Cambodia, Kim Jong of North Korea, Saddam Hussian and other ruthless human
beings. It is sad to say that some human
beings have lost humanity and praise people for
their leadership qualities but tactfully ignoring their bloodthirsty nature. If these
hero worshippers lost a loved ones in their family like those people in Gujarat, then how the
hero worshippers will react?

Hi Amrita:
Thank you for your reply.A few clarifications:
1)I am not the only right winger to casually state that the guilty must be punished.There is nothing casual about my remark. I believe that all guilty, Muslims or Hindu must be punished period unlike others who only target Hindus and look the other way when Hindus are victims.
2)In also stating that I am the only right winger to admit that the guilty must be punished you are making another wrong assumption. Tehelka has done what opponents of Hindutva have done all along- pick up a fringe element like Bajarangi and project him as the prototype.
3)I am not a right winger but a truth winger.
4)If you carry an unbiased mind and are willing to read Hindu Nationalist history you will realise that it is an outcome of the search for truth and justice for the Hindu.

Amrita, I'm not quoting the Congress to justify behaviour -- I'm pointing out that Madmanmohan Singh is on record as having said that the 1984 Riots were perpetrated by the RSS. In other words, the Congress is interested in trying to scapegoat nationalist groups for anything and everything. They certainly aren't the impartial investigators for anything, nor are their Tehelka Stooges -- and let's be clear, Tehelka ARE their stooges.

When Congress partyman Natwar Singh was implicated by the Volker Report in the massive bribery scam perpetrated by the Iraqi govt, all the Congressmen reflexively rallied around him, and Tehelka quickly and conveniently released an "exposee" targetting MPs mainly from the BJP as a DISTRACTION MANEUVER to get the Congress Party out of the headlines. That's clearly what Tehelka is all about -- they are a tool used to help out the Congress Party, particularly when it's on the back foot. That is their motivation and their intent, and clearly anything they present should be judged in that context.

So spare me your ridiculous naivete, Rebecca-of-Sunnybrook-Farm.

The Indo-US Nuclear Deal is currently in jeopardy, and all stops/stunts are being pulled out to help the Congress obtain a stronger footing, so that they can press through the deal. I myself support the deal, but not at the cost of being saddled with Congress One-Party Rule. That's not acceptable by any means.

AJAY/AMRITA,
Appreciate your prompt answers thought without even reading my comments.

Amrita I guess you are ametuer colmnist who just writes and dosen't read.If you are in touch with "Blogosphere" (name any blog in wordpress, blogspot,delecious,rediff) you wont have dared to say people read with Ajay.
Just do some reading and come back.

Anyway, I am not worried about what all write I am worried about you two who thinks one way.
Amrita/Ajay if you are really concerned can you pls send me a link where all you wrote when Hindus are tourtured, raped, harrassed from history and to recent past.

These revelations are mind-boggling. All of Tehelka's findings and the evidence they have accumulated should be turned over to impartial authorities for prosecution. At minimum, somebody should go through every piece of evidence and determine which laws were broken and follow it up. This may or may not work - depending on how much shielding the politicians are willing to do.

Tehelka is crap. They are a Congress Party mouthpiece, and the fact that the Congress is willing to play such dirty games puts them outside the democratic spectrum, imho. They are simply a Personality Cult type of party, and they are capable of anything. No dirty trick is too low for them, since they have no scruples.

Amritha,
Straight question to you=======>>>

Do you follow "Hindutva"???

See..
you are thinking what me... Hindutva?? No way. But you just you are Hindu they why are you thinking.
This is because our Pseudo-Secular Media have hijjaked, raped this beatiful concept of SECULARISM we hindu follow(don't have to believe me but just do some reading online/anywhere)

This is enough proof that pseudo secular media is doing a propaganda against Hindutva.

(Ajay..reply for you also.You are listening)

do you know what a hindu is? are you a brahman ?what right do you have to make such statements?

Kela will tell us what a Hindu is? right kele?

of course ...i have brahman heritage

Brilliantly written Amrita. Thank yoU!

J - thank you :)

Kela - so this is where you've been hiding out.

AS Matthew: it's primarily that people don't understand that when zealots come into power then everybody loses.

Vivek - 1) I didn't mean any insult by the use of the word "casual", it's just that you at least mentioned the riots and their fallout as a preface to your remarks while all the other rightwingers I've seen don't even bother that much.
2) Please send me a link to any right winger you know who has condemned the events of 2002 rather than focus on Tehelka and mudslinging. I would love to be wrong about this but I've yet to come across one right winger who does this. Admittedly my pool of right wing bloggers is rather small so I look to you to set me right.
3) If Bajrangi is such a side player then why doesn't the BJP denounce him and his actions? Why hasn't Modi called him a liar in public? Forget proving him wrong, at least make some appropriate noises. But nothing of the sort has been forthcoming. Why?
4) Truth is not an ideology so there's no such thing as a "truth-winger". unless you're trying to say you don't follow any particular ideology, in which case good for you.
5) I could say the same to you vis-a-vis an unbiased mind: will you be willing to accept that more might have happened in Godhra than your current understanding of the case? What if the courts rule that the fire on the train was an accident? This is why I said the riots have muddied waters to such an extent that somebody or the other will be always be unhappy with the outcome of this case. The on camera revelations of the gujarat govt. counsel that the govt had bribed and threatened witnesses to testify in their favor has only underlined how far we've fallen.

BJ - I'll be very surprised if anything comes of this. the BJP are plainly trying to wait the storm out.

Sanjay - Okay, here's the thing. Manmohan Singh and the riots of 1984 (btw, could you give me a link to that quote? From a non right wing source, please. thanks) have exactly one relation to the matter at hand and that is if you bring out the "Look at these people and what they do, so why target the BJP" card. Ergo, you're trying to use the Congress to justify the actions of your party.
You're so bound up in your flim flam about the BJP that you don't even see what you've become.
Look at you - you haven't got a word to say about the actions of the Sangh Parivar in Gujarat. it's all about the Congress.
And it's all very well to say that Tehelka is a Congress stooge but where's your proof? the Natwar Singh scandal isn't exactly a smoking gun. And btw, the Congress booted Natwar, which gives it one up on the BJP. The BJP targeted Tehelka for years and threw the entire might of the govt against it while they were in power - and weren't able to link them to the Congress or prove anything else was dirty. So I'd like to know what proof you have that the BJP with all the power of the state behind it doesnt have.
Calling me names and flailing at the Congress doesn't hide what this incident has exposed about you Sanjay.

Razor - Unless you have some sort of dysgraphia that prevents you from expressing yourself properly, both Ajay and I have not only read what you've had to say but countered it point by point. I notice you have nothing to say about those things and are instead more interested in calling me names and asking me how I "dare" call you on your bullshit.
It's alright, feeble minds always feel the need to hide their weaknesses by employing such methods.
By the way, were you trying to tell me that Hinduism is synonymous with Hindutva? Because I can't make heads or tails of what you wrote in your last reply - kindly stop posting when you're high.

YAY for amrita! so glad to see you back! that'll teach these nimrods... :)

Here's an idea for Sanjay...why don't you and the rest of the right-wing brigade fund an outfit like Tehelka that can uncover the butchers in Delhi and elsewhere?

Why blame Tehelka? They are a liberal outfit, they will always be a voice against the right wing. If you can, criticize their message. Why kill the messenger?

SB.. .he can't, he's too busy gathering his evidence by watching star world and zee cafe!

Razor.. Even if the media is pseudo secular (a term you seem fond of), congress stooges, etc. they are still harmless. Freedom of expression and religion is a right. But crimes such as the ones that were committed are not to be condoned or looked lightly upon.

SB sums it up nicely "If you can, criticize their message. Why kill the messenger?"

Razor, answer this for me, do you think killing thousands of innocent muslims, women/children, is pardonable? Yes/No ??

This whole notion of 'Look, Gujarat is doing so well economically. Look, Modi is a great administrator, he did so much for Gujarat' etc, reeks so much of Nazi Germany.

Many leaders outside of Germany gave a blind eye to many of his pogroms (before 1939) because he was ready to pull a good political stunt to impress everyone. Many Germans within Germany were quite happy to see a great economic progress after the economic debacle in 1920s.

The productivity during Nazi regime was the highest. Unparalleled industry growth was achieved in those few years.

Please, do not bring those economic statistics to hail a leader. Even Stalin got USSR many great economic statistics. He also put 10 million of his own people to death.

Sujai..
You cant compare Nazi Germany to Gujarat.
There was no riots there with Jews and Germans. It was pure one sided.
Here in Gujarat 69 (in train burning) + 250 (in riots) hindus died. Who killed them? Did similar thing happened in Germany?
Ans) NO
Do you remember/recollect/google any Jews violently attack majority Germans.
Ans) NO
Did Jews assembled in their worship places and threw stones on Nazis etc? Or jews in violent way killed Germans systematically by putting bombs,terror attacks?
Ans)NO


SO DON'T COMMENT WITH THE HINTS GIVEN BY OUR MAIN STREAM MEDIA. AND DONT BE A PUPPET IN OUR MEDIA OR ELSE YOU WILL BECOME THE SAME COMMON AMERICAN WHO STILL BELIEVES THAT THERE ARE WMD IN IRAQ.

razor, would you care to give a similar direct reply to my question?

Ajay...
Why Muslims alone??
Why cant you put it as a humans???
You rephrase your sentence (as well as your mentality).

razor, I like your train of thought.. yes humans ofcourse.. but you still side step the question :) !! Anyway, I will not push for it.

just a small hint razor... no american believes there was WMD... we don;t support the war in iraq... keep playing that same old boring tune... blah blah blah

smallsquirrel, if razor was an american, given his kind of thinking, he would be amongst those advocating war in iraq and believe there were WMD..

smallsquirrel/Ajay/Sujai..
If you dont have any point then you don't have to reply.
Look at my reply #44.
Does it look as same old blah..blah.
I have replied to Sujai..point by point. Do you have the guts to do the same.
Instead, you are trying to sterotype some thing from me or get some funny interpretation from sentences and try to show as if you pointed a great point.

On a purely subjective level - Doesn't Modi have the coldest eyes one has ever seen? How can anyone trust the guy? On a more objective note - a guy who says he's committed to his state, and then cannot even express sadness at so many of his own people getting killed. W-i-e-r-d. And sad, sad, sad.

Annamma, I am sure his supporters see fire and zeal and passion in his eyes. And he is committed to his state...the Hindu part at least.

And ss/Ajay/Sujai, stop pointing like you have great points. Great points of what? ;-)

According to a written reply to the Rajya Sabha on 11/5/2005,
Mminister of State for Home Affairs, Sriprakash Jaiswal, a total
of 790 Muslims and 259 Hindus were killed in post Godhra riots
in 2002 in Gujarat.

Both communities were involved in Madness, the result was " RIOT"
This episode cannot be called GENOCIDE, in which Muslims only
were killed.

The entire show created by Tejpal-Tehlka is based on Modi bashing.
The show does not show 259 Hindus torched and slaughtered by Muslims !!!

Approximately 1050 citizens of secular India died in Gujarat.
259 died on one side and 790 died on the other side in the gang war.
The gang war in between two factions, groups or communities can be called RIOT and not the genocide.

What happened in Delhi with Sikh citizens of India, was GENOCIDE which happened due to" Banyan-Tree" which had fallen shaking the earth of Delhi, according to ex Prime Minister of India.

Looking to above figures of riot victims, It can be said that 25% victims of
the riot were Hindus, while they formed 85% percent population. The Majority
community 85% suffered at the hands of only 15% minority population.
This clearly prove that Minority community was more Active in Riots than
Majority communities, otherwise ratio of victims in Minority communities
would have been 6 to 1 and not 3 to 1.

India saw Millions Hindus and Muslim slaughtered in Hindu-Muslims
Riots at the time of partition of India. Should we blame the episode on
Gandhi and Nehru?
I think the way Modi is being targeted and made responsible is unfair.

Over-all more counts of Hindus are slaughtered in secular India than Muslims,
as victims of communal riots and Islamic Terror.
More Hindus are slaughtered in Mamba alone compared to Muslims, based
on the Ratio of population of both communities in Mumbai; who are victims of communal riots and Islamic Terror of 1993 serial Bomb blasts and serial train bombing of trains. Muslims are definitely more active in engineering riots and sabotage every where in secular India,yet they blame Hindus for atrocities.

In 1971, despite the well known fact that the Pakistan army had killed close to 300,000, mainly Hindus, in Bangladesh (a figure accepted by the official Hamidur Rehman commission as well -- Pakistan General Gul Hasan who was chief of the army at the time claims that over 600,000 were killed), there was no internal strife as all parties (including the much reviled RSS) were co-opted in keeping this secret. Ninety percent of the nearly 1 crore (10 million) refugees that poured into India were also Hindus. But even this was successfully hidden from the public

During SIKH GENOCIDE, comparing the situation in Delhi with that in Kolkata which had also witnessed initial violence against the Sikhs "the failure of Delhi authorities to respond to the early signals of trouble contrasted with the alacrity displayed by their counterparts in Kolkata.
"Significantly, mob violence broke out in Kolkata even before it did in Delhi. The violence, however, fizzled out in Kolkata because at the first sign of attacks on Sikhs, the local government led by Communists immediately called in the Army to restore law and order".

NO ARMY WAS CALLED IN DELHI EVEN AFTER THE GENOCIDE OF THOUSANDS OF SIKHS WAS STARTED BY THE PROVOCATIVE STATEMENT BY RAJIV GANDHI, WHO WAS MADE PRIME MINISTER,
SAYING THAT "THE BANYAN TREE HAS FALLEN SHAKING THE EARTH"





A recent study conducted by RBI reveals that Gujarat ranks first with a proposed investment of $ 17.8 billion whereas the total FDI inflow in 2007
stands at $ 68 billion. It is 25.8 per cent of the total FDI.

The development story of Gujarat in the last six years has many pleasant surprises. Gujarat has first class infrastructure. It also means that Gujarat's political leadership generates enough confidence among the investors from India and abroad and that the State governance is trusted upon by all concerned.

It means providing large-scale employment, it means industrialisation;
it means huge exports and it also means vigorous economic activity.
Gujarat is a shinning example in India's economic development and self
reliance.

The problem of women, youth, self-employed, old, disabled and poor have been addressed through one or the other project with great success. E-governance has made the task easier. Even the poorest of the poor can be attended by special and big hospitals of the city. The same implies to pregnant women. In Gujarat urban development does not mean serving only nine cities but also smaller towns and blocks numbering 168. The face of Gujarat has changed beyond recognition.

UK based NRI industrialist Lord Swaraj Paul praised the excellent infrastructure and Roads network developed in Gujarat. "Gujarat is the most impressive State in the whole of the country." he said.

There is no one area where Gujarat has not made significant progress in the last six years. The credit has to be given to Modi.
Meet any Gujarati in India or abroad. They are all praises for Modi. Even his critics and opponents concede this though they have been critical about him on other aspects of his personality and behaviour. Yet nobody questioned his integrity and honesty. Rebels within the party have some grouse against him but even they concede what is due to him.

The speedy development of Gujarat is the issue for Assembly election. The opponents of Modi and BJP are trying to make it a referendum on Modi but it won't work.

i am surprised to see the long absence of the moderator while such a crucial and HOT discussion is going on!

okay.. dear brothers & sisters, relax.. come to the ground. i know you all are very hot on the subject!! why don't we take that riot as something done by the criminals in the society to some poor Indians? why do you color it with religion or community? that may be such a one; still to fetch justice to the affected in this riot whether of any religion we have to OUTLOOK this tragedy in the eyes of being Indians. wherever any Indian whether he is rich/poor or hindu/muslim/x'ian or of any region suffers at the hands of criminals we have to rise up to condemn it regardless of our own interest...because diversified we may be by religion/region/color/language but UNITED we are as Indians!!

Every Indian in our nation has the right for a better living, better expression of thought, better education and so..confine our religion within the walls of our places of worship. when we come to the society we are INDIANS, children of Bharat Matha. let us not be called or divided by any other name. UNITED WE ARE! United shall we fight the inequalities of the society, the cancer called 'bribe' and still there are many more long queue of other priority things that we have to achieve united. time is late to shred the fabric of religion and wear the bullet proof of Indian-feeling!!!!!!!!!!!!

and, i feel that all these things we have to start from the LKG application form: yes, let there be only one column regarding the existence nature. that is; nationality: INDIAN

JOJI...
I am with you. It is because we are in country like India and we being Indians we have open discussion on what happened and why it happened. If it is some barbaric country like Saudi Arabia we won't even have a meaningful law. Every thing is Sharia and people are given punishment by killing with stones, chopping their hands, chopping their heads.
In India we are too democratic and some times this freeness people are using to wrong cause by diverting and misleading people. People shd be cautious of this people and see what is the real truth.

Sujai..
You cant compare Nazi Germany to Gujarat.

Why not?

There was no riots there with Jews and Germans. It was pure one sided.

So, you are saying that we should act ONLY as long as it is 'pure one-sided'? How about Rwanda? It was genocide but many people from both sides got killed.

Riots happen in India all the time. Usually the perpetrators never come forward and are never recorded, so there is no evidence to blame one single person. A riot takes a distinctive character of being free-for-all, with no master conspirator. 'Creating a riot' is also to achieve that effect- to say there is no single mastermind or plotter - so nobody gets blamed - and the blame is shared equally between thousands who are nameless and faceless making it hard to find a culprit.

Riots have happened many a times in India. For a while, the Gujarat government, the Hindutva parties and the elite-and-educated Hindus who sympathize with such forces have almost convinced us that it was just another riot. And hence these figures- 250-750. Nobody actually believes those numbers. Even during the partition the numbers were declared quite low. Only later estimates have put the figures at half a million.

The similarity between Nazi Pogroms and the present Gujarat Pogroms are not about numbers OR about riots. The similarities are:

1. A campaign to defame, denigrate and find fault with one identity blaming them for the ills of the society.
2. A pogrom where the administration and the state apparatus abets, aids and participates in killing people of that identity.

Did such things happen in Nazi Germany?
YES.

Would it have changed if riots ensued in Nazi Germany where few Nazis were killed by Jews? Would that change the Holocaust that followed such pogroms? Did the Warsaw Resistance (where Jews on 18 Mila Street took arms against Germans) suddenly make the Nazi Germans less culpable?

Do you remember/recollect/google any Jews violently attack majority Germans.

Unfortunately, there is only one case - that of Warsaw Ghetto. Again, if there were more such riots, would it have made Nazi Germans less culpable?

SO DON'T COMMENT WITH THE HINTS GIVEN BY OUR MAIN STREAM MEDIA. AND DONT BE A PUPPET IN OUR MEDIA OR ELSE YOU WILL BECOME THE SAME COMMON AMERICAN WHO STILL BELIEVES THAT THERE ARE WMD IN IRAQ.

Irrelevant.

Sujai, [EDITED -IRRELEVANT]

Tehelka's "sting" has clearly been discredited:

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071112&fname=Cover%20Story%20%28F%29&sid=6

well, the link doesn't work....

smallsqirrel...
It worked for me. It is with you whether you want to see reality or not.

razor... get a grip dear, seriously.

Tehelka's "sting" has clearly been discredited:

And? ??

So is the the research into Holocaust discredited by some Iranians and an Austrian author. Does that change the fact that it actually happened?

smallSquirrel..
Did you get a grip of this website?
That is the only point that matters and dear..pls stick to the point.If you have some other ideas/plan and talk abt 'grip' go visit some other places/sites.

razor, apparently our Thought Police "Moderators" have a selective bias on whose comments are irrelevant or not. It always shows in their actions.

While on this subject, can you please answer questions raised on this subject by Sandeep in his post? It raises a few questions for everyone to ponder on. Please answer them honestly. Everyone. if not then you are buying off information from the mainstream media without thinking twice about it.

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/11/05/none-to-mourn-dead-hindus/#more-973

SS - hello there :) You're really wasting your breath on Razor you know.

Annamma and J - I bet he's right sexy to some folks. ugh.

Sanjay - that link is Chandan "Right Wing Apologist" Mitra's opinion piece. It discredits Tehelka only if you subscribe to his world view. Outlook itself has run dozens of stories that support Tehelka's findings including at least one feature piece on Babu Bajrangi.

Joji - sorry, I've been caught up in something :) But I agree, this is a crime against India.

Razor - dude, for a person who dragged in Swami Vivekananda to no purpose into this discussion, I suggest you rethink your words to small squirrel.

Sujai - I usually don't like to drag in parallels to Nazi Germany but I have to say you do a fine job :)

Kannan - I'll get back to you after I've read the piece but from a cursory glance I should tell you that your contention that relying on the mainstream media makes people blind is idiotic to say the least when the blog post you've linked to itself relies upon an article in The Hindu - a national, mainstream English daily.

amrita... I pay him no mind... he's like a mosquito, you bat at it for a while but eventually you squish it. :P

Amrita ,good to see you back,you had gone missing for a while.I was busy trolling the internet :)

Amrita, good to see a post from you, as always :)

You have covered all facets of the analysis which is fitting of such a political discussion carrying the weight of some very heinous riots and religious bearings. While hopefully people will not derail the discussion by pushing pet theories and hunches to brush aside glaring evidence. I must say that your points in the bullet font should take care of all such skeptics.

Nicely done. :)

Kannan,
That was really a great though-provoking link.
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/11/05/
none-to-mourn-dead-hindus/#more-973

Your statement "...if not then you are buying off information from the mainstream media ..." is absolutely valid.
Some one pointed out in another blog two cases.
How did 250 (post -Godhra) hindus died?
Case 1: killed my Muslim rioters
Case 2: Killed by Police firing on them.

EITHER WAY, this tells that either Muslims have attacked or State have taken some action. Now dosen't it undermine our pseudo-secular arguments here it is organized progrom, blah, blah?

(I don't care who want to squish me or tell bad words and degrade to personal comments.I don't care and the bloggers don't care atleast in this meduim.
Did any one read SmallSquirrel comments in this site. He/She don't have a point. He just calls every one names from lunatic to fanatic. Ironically he has most number of comments and this site says "Personal Attacks are not allowed.."

I was just going to post that.

These are the stats
250 Hindus (+69) were killed

If they were killed by Muslim mobs then the riots weren't an anti-Muslim "pogrom" as the propaganda suggests

If they were killed in police firing, then the police did do its job.

Anyway, some people will stoop to any level to get at Modi. Some even suggesting stopping elections until the trial(by media?) is over.
ROTFLMAO

A Sting Without Venom
'Tehelka's multi-million enterprise has been greeted with
circumspection bordering on derision' ......
Chandan Mitra
Published: Outlook India

Sting is suddenly a suspect, if not dirty, word. But till even just a
few months ago this controversial method of procuring information was
celebrated as the harbinger of a bold era, the defining characteristic
of "new journalism". After the infamous Delhi schoolteacher episode,
which turned out to be concocted, there is palpable discomfort with
this genre. Sadly, for Tehelka's multi-million enterprise aimed at
exposing Narendra Modi's alleged involvement in the 2002 post-Godhra
riots, even their venture has been greeted with circumspection
bordering on derision. Congress, the prime beneficiary of sting
operations mounted by Tehelka, its offshoots and other copycats, has
issued fervent disclaimers about its alleged sponsorship of the
operation, privately suggesting this may have been funded by Modi! A
failed sting is like a military coup gone awry: it is an orphan.

Why did Tehelka, the original promoter of this dubious genre of
journalism, get it so horribly wrong this time? First, the timing of
its public release was so transparently pegged to the Gujarat assembly
polls that even breast-beating secular fundamentalists found it hard
to defend. Having self-confessedly collected evidence over six months,
the 'stingers' failed to convincingly explain why they waited for the
poll dates to be announced and the Election Commission's model code of
conduct to be operationalised. "Politically motivated" is a phrase
routinely brandished by Indian politicians at the receiving end of
adverse media publicity. But for once, this cliche hit the bull's eye.

Second, did the so-called sting establish anything that was not
already in the domain of public knowledge? That certain bestial people
on the Hindutva fringe indulged in gruesome forms of torture and
murder was well-known and widely condemned. The bizarre, much-
publicised twists in the Best Bakery case were sufficient to drive the
point home. Significantly, however, the secular fundamentalists
continue to pointedly ignore the fact that the poster boy of the
Gujarat riot industry, the Muslim tailor photographed begging for his
life with folded hands during the violence, has returned to his home
state after a stint in 'secular' West Bengal, complaining of
exploitation by CPI(M) for political gains. He now avoids publicity
like the plague, saying he has no desire to play the role scripted for
him by Gujarat-bashers.

Third, that TV channels, which reportedly paid a packet to Tehelka for
telecast rights, ran disclaimers saying they were not responsible for
the claims made by those interviewed, carries its own tale. Small-
time, small-town politicians are known to exaggerate their importance
given half a chance. That was my personal experience while conducting
interviews in remote UP and Bihar districts with survivors of the Quit
India Movement for my doctoral thesis for Oxford University. Their
claims had to be routinely cross-checked to eliminate self-
mythification. Talking to a reporter who posed as a Hindutva champion
researching for a book on the saffron surge in Gujarat, these persons
could well have given free rein to their grotesque fantasies.

But what is the worth of these "confessions"? Can they stand even
cursory scrutiny in a court of law? So what did Tehelka aim at? As
veterans of the burgeoning sting industry, having supplied call girls
and Scotch to lubricate the wagging tongues of army officers in the
defence expose, surely they knew that only a political motive could be
served by their unsuccessful attempt to find a smoking gun in Narendra
Modi's hand?

Fourth, did they find anything against Modi? After sending out lakhs
of sms alerts for three days hyping the suspect end product, thus
benefiting mobile service providers and the marketing departments of
select TV channels, they couldn't find even a concealed revolver in
Modi's pocket, leave alone a smoking gun.Modi never visited Naroda
Patiya, site of a horrifying carnage, and thus the question of his
garlanding the alleged mass murderers there simply did not arise. The
post-mortem report said Congress ex-MP Ehsan Jafri died of three
bullets lodged in his body. No limbs were cut one after another;
neither was his torso "toasted", contrary to a chilling assertion by a
prominent rioter. "Modi gave us three days," claimed yet another
braggart. Self-righteous secularists argue: Modi is a demon, so
whatever is said against him is true and if you want proof you are a
communalist neo-Nazi!

Tehelka's disastrous misadventure doesn't need further elaboration. I
can only feel sorry because they tried to be too clever by half and
fell flat. Nothing justifies the burning alive of 52 kar sevaks at
Godhra, and the retribution that followed. But just as Delhi recovered
from the Congress-supervised anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984, so much so that
Punjab twice elected that party to power in the state, so has Gujarat.
This time, there is no trace of a communal cloud overhanging the
forthcoming election. The only issue is Gujarat's spectacular economic
development despite the devastating earthquake and the shocking riots.
It is for the people of Gujarat to judge who are guilty of re-
injecting the virus of communalism into the state's politics; who are
friends of Muslims and who are their (hidden camera-carrying) enemies.

During those riots, over 1/3 of total casulaties were Hindus and over 40,000 hindus had fled to refugee camps. I bet Modi conspired to
attack hindus so hindus can blame moslems!

Tehlka expose is premeditated report cooked up just to influence the elections in a state that is critical for Congress to oust BJP. One can get any number of people to brag that Congress instigated Godhra fire to punish Ayodhya Karsevaks - but that would not establish it as fact. Tehkla never
interviewed any key persons in the administration nor persons who may have actually participated in the riots nor interviewed people who may have
different opinion that would have contradicted the pre-meditated conclusion of Tehlka.

Gujarat riot is not the first time Hindu-Moslem riots have occured in Gujarat or else where, and show me a riot where people have clashed in civilized manner - they all have been barbaric and inhumane and have had political connections and ideological patronage on both sides. Riots have been ideological necessity for pseudo secularism - as that is the only ideology that politically profits and gets empowered by perpetual communal tensions, and thus pseudo secularism has acquired political vested interest in provoking and keeping both communities in state of distrust and war and denying any peaceful mechanism to redress and reconcile their religious aspirations and religious grivences at religious level. It is failure of statecraft when communities have to resolve their grivences thru riots and violence in the street. Psedo secularism will never admit its ideological failure but instead use post-riots to refurbish its moral self-righteousness and diver t the focus on hindu-bashing, that sets the stage for another riot waiting to happen on hair-trigger event. Post-Godhra riots were as much
result of outrage against pseudo secularist insults that blamed the Hindus for the train incident. Hindus were stunned by the cunning silence and smirk of secularists on the face of dastardly train holocost and some of them had the audacity to blame it on Hindu pilgrims on the fateful train. People who have made exploitation of post-godhra riot a life-long propaganda mission had nothing to offer to Hindu after train holocost but silence and they-got-what-they-deserved attitude. If pseudo-secularists can exploit communal divide and riots, so can Modi. Secularists are miffed that Modi can do it so much better. Until Modi came along, Hindutva had no clue how to exploit communal riots and rob the pseudo-secularists from taking political mileage out of them. That is why Pseudo secularists have been stuck on Modi and Gujarat riots even though both Modi and Gujarat have moved beyond to bigger and better things.

Let me rephrase the role of psecularism in communal politics. Western style secularism being unnatural implant on Indian landscape, it needs minority comunalism to acquire its moral self-rightiousness and its raison d'etre to manage the divide. Since Hindus have managed the diversity and plurality within its fold for ages, Secularism sees Hinduness as ideological enemy and competitor. Last time secularism tried to use minority communalism to advance its foothold and neutralize aspirations of Hindus, it ended up creating two-nation theory and consequent partition. However, state was not its allie at that time as British ruled the state and therefore secularism could not manage minority communalism from exploding into partition. Now that State is allied with secularism, psecularists have become more confident and therefore more aggressive in pursuing minority communalism. RSS and BJP are nothing but reaction to such political landscape - they are reduced to a role of opposing minority communalism - a role that has not paid any political dividends to them nor allowed them success in uniting all hindus - however, such efforts have earned them the label of 'majority communalism'. However, unbridled minority communalism could have the solitary effect of uniting hindus against minority communalism - which secularism dread the most. Riots provide the safety value to restore status quo. Hindus would hope riots by moslems(statistically, most riots are started by Moslems) would allow hindus to unite. But post-riots, secularfists move in with self-reigheous indignation and high moral ground to exploit the aftermath of riots to project moslems as victims and hindus as fanatics. It has resulted in hindus distancing themsleves rather than uniting and coming togather that any hindu party can capitalize on. Secular Mission accomplished. Such politics have gone on for decades until Modi came along. He has succeeded in uniting hindus against minority communalism. He has succeeded in uniting hindus against post-riot exploitation by psecularists. And if he gets re-elected again which is most likely, Indian politics will undergo dramatic change and psecularists could see their power wane dramatically. Thus stakes are very high on both sides. It is shrill and desperate times for psecularists, judging by how they are clutching at the straws. Divided BJP and revitalized Gujarat Congress could have done the Modi in - but Tehlka might actually help Modi win. Communism, casteism, leftism and communalism does not pay in Gujarat.

Thank you, Amrita for the reply.

"I'll get back to you after I've read the piece but from a cursory glance I should tell you that your contention that relying on the mainstream media makes people blind is idiotic to say the least when the blog post you've linked to itself relies upon an article in The Hindu - a national, mainstream English daily. "

I guess you are very subtle in your references. But hope you are just as alert to pick the subtle facts in this epsisode.
Hope you read the piece. Do you still think the HIndu is maitiaining a consistent position vis-a-vis the Gujrat Riots? The HIndu clearly reports Muslims being the agressors on march 1st 2002. The interview with Aaj Tak which bltantly puts 3 non existent days between Feb 28 2002 and March 1st 2002. Will Hindu before it goes on an orgy of "Narendra Modi = Hitler" kind of news, put out the facts again that Muslims were agressors too. That it was not the simple genocide it is made out to be? Guess not. It is too much to ask for. Responsiblity, crediblity thoroughness.
The link to the Hindu is for everyone to see the difference in reporting that has happened in the same paper, when the facts mentioned by the same paper are brushed and buried. Oh well I guess what i said was idiotic all the same.