Desicritics Comments on Intercourse with the Natives

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Comment by Roger Foley-Fogg

Wed, 1 Sep 2010 18:11:11 EDT

Dear Dhiraj, 'Imagined' to you but 'real' to her. Anyway I have passed on the Palm Island mob's feelings about it as i promised to do and will pass your feelings to Maggie when she gets back to town...... Dear Aaman, A point of correction/explanation different cultures have different definitions for everyday words..I find it interesting wherever I go that a word that is everyday in one locale can be an insult in another. Our tribal Black folk have grown up in a white with gun culture where they were treated as 'Natives' defined as 'simple uncivilised people' . Much like folk in India in days gone by. Uneducated English is often their third language after their mobs everyday language, the mob next door's different language and speaking Kriol to white folk etc etc and they themselves much prefer to be called, as they call themselves, 'the mob' as in 'the Halls Creek mob' etc etc. My only message to you all is the advice to St Augustine, when in Rome if you want to get to know the Romans and be their friend, its best to do as the Romans do. I hope this helps with your understanding of our Black people, our Mobs from the bush and the desert. Not that I am an expert. I am just wishing for you to be friends and passing along a message from a friend who does not have the skills nor technology to contact you herself. Please dont shoot the messenger he is only doing his best! +++R

Comment by Roger Foley-Fogg

Wed, 1 Sep 2010 18:09:54 EDT

Comment by Aaman

Wed, 1 Sep 2010 06:10:26 EDT

This is posted as opinion and not news. On the personal request to the author to excise a comment, it should be treated as such and considered, as its just one sentence in a much larger article. The original version and these comments are on the author's site, so please take this topic there. The term 'native' has no pejorative meaning, IMO, in fact, 'mob' is far more negative.

Comment by Dhiraj Singh

Wed, 1 Sep 2010 04:19:41 EDT

I am sorry I am doing no such thing… not because I mean to rub salt in the wounds of Palm Islanders but because I feel this is my personal testament of what I have seen and understood about life in Australia. In that I would like to correct the perception (Maggie’s and yours) that this is a ‘news report’ by a ‘journalist’ and worse, a sneaky undercover one… because it is not. My conversations with Maggie and with anyone else I met there were exactly that, i.e. free-wheeling and honest sharing of ideas and feelings and personal visions of ourselves. Had I intended to seek politically correct opinions I would have probably begun a process of issuing and receiving press-releases. But that was not my intention. Even this piece was not my intention, it just happened organically, as thoughts and ideas began to string together inside my head and even without me realizing I had a written document of all that I saw, heard and felt while in Australia. This one is a heartfelt piece of reminiscence that is (in my mind) as vital and necessary as a piece of poetry or a work of art, which to paraphrase our friend Bill Henson has in its soul the potential to embarrass and upset the apple cart. As a poet and an artist herself I think it is unfair for Maggie to ‘demand’ an alteration of what I consider my piece of poetry and my work of art. If she thinks she has been misrepresented she is free to seek redress in whatever way or medium she feels comfortable with. The title ‘Intercourse with the Natives’ is essential to the point I am trying to make here and without it, it is as good as neutered. I think Maggie has personalized her people’s persecution far too much and is not willing to take in the experience of cultures elsewhere in the world that were treated in a similar manner by the colonials. This is as much a piece about Australia as it is about India or Pakistan or Jamaica or South Africa and I am not willing to change that especially for the sake of righting an imagined insult.

Comment by Roger Foley-Fogg

Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:22:22 EDT

Hey there Dhiraj ,............................. Our black friend Maggie Walsh has asked me to ask you to take down comments attributed to her and also to alter your heading ................................. She says that she was not informed that any off-the-cuff remarks by her would be used and published as a story ......................... She didn't know you were a journalist nor did she know she was being interviewed, she met you as artist to artist .............................. And she and her family find this reference inaccurate to her 'real' views and distasteful. ............................................... Also she wants you to know that her family in Palm Island find the title "Intercourse with the Natives" very embarrassing and insulting because of its sexual/dominant definition and its colonial/paternalistic tone toward her people, her mob ...................................................................... I know you have no ill will or bad intent Dhiraj, quite the contrary ............... but you might like to think about a compromise to help sooth an already wounded woman, people and friend. Palm Island is a very distressed society where as you know a policeman murdered a local black man and got away with it! ........................................ and journalistic freedoms aside ........................................... May i suggest " Interaction with the mob" as a happy alternative?... Over to you buddy. see you next month.

Comment by Roger Foley-Fogg

Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:50:40 EDT

That makes sense commonsense otherwise it would be a devolutionary step! They would eat themselves out of existence! By the way #62 Champaklal if Dr Lumholtz was in fact given that information by indigenous Australians...do you think it might just have been good old Australian humour ? We often use irony when confronted by foolish 'expert' opinions. See the URL for Oz indigenous humour in my posting #53 above.

Comment by commonsense

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:29:02 EDT

contrary to myths, there is no evidence of systematic cannibalism anywhere in the world. it does happen, but when it does, it is under special circumstances - starvation, particular rituals etc. no human community has ever depended entirely on cannibalism for its nutritional needs. according to anthropologists.

Comment by Roger Foley-Fogg

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 03:54:13 EDT

I PROTEST this falsehood.....on behalf of my indigenous mates..... please read this from Wikipedia... ".....Lumholtz travelled to Australia in 1880, where he spent ten months from 1882-1883 amongst the indigenous inhabitants of the Herbert-Burdekin region in North Queensland. He wrote a book about his experience, Among Cannibals: An Account of Four Years' Travels in Australia and of Camp Life with the Aborigines of Queensland, first published in 1889...... .....AND CAREFULLY NOTE THIS PART..... .......It should be pointed out that regardless of the title of the book, Queensland Aboriginals were not (and still are not) known to consume human flesh." However of course ALL meat eaters of NEARLY ALL nationalities have been known to eat human flesh when put in a position of eating whats available or death by starvation....Including us white or bleached folk...there are many many recorded incidents of cannibalism amongst white folk... from lost soccer players to escaped convicts to starving soldiers everywhere etc etc. Maybe not so much in Vegetarian India....perhaps! However there is NO evidence that Australian Aborigines ever did this.... it would be anathema to their spiritual beliefs as i know them. So i dont think this helps our discussion at all and stirs up the racist muck gratuitously. Roger (the bleached Australian)

Comment by Champaklal Bhogilal

Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:03:27 EDT

Unrelated to the topic: Swedish anthropologist Dr. Carl Lumholtz (A Victorian racist) interviewed several cannibalistic aboriginal tribes in Australia. According to them Asians and other aboriginals, who ate less meat and lots of veggies, tasted better. Carnivorous caucasians were considered bad meat. Too salty and nauseating for their taste buds.

Comment by Romana Zaman

Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:52:09 EDT

agree with dialogue too--but sincere efforts please,not like the incessant "dialogues" of the governments--where both meet,handshakes all around and arrange next meetings.!