Shah Rukh Khan Detained At Newark Airport, USA

i read this, had the thought, this must be written by an indian, and lo and behold ...

Should US airports exempt all Bollywood celebrities from checks including Sanjay Dutt?

Newsweek named him as one of the 50 most powerful people in the world and hey I don't get what you meant by 'this must be written by an Indian'.. care to explain?

Ledzius, comparing Shahrukh with shadowy characters like Sanjay Dutt doesn't really work considering the fact that Shahrukh is one of the the most honest actors of Bollywood.

And 2 hours?! Come on! The dude has travelled in and out of US more times than I have dug my nostrils! They have him fingerprinted and in their data base. I so want to know the reason for detainment

Oh! forget about SRK apparently in New Jersey a cop mistook Bob Dylan to be a homeless bum and asked him for his ID

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8331830&page=1

It is unfortunate, especially if it is caused by racial profiling.

I would imagine that several people will be losing their jobs over this debacle!!!

Its a publicity stunt by Sharukh Khan for his new movie - MY NAME IS KHAN

Also, as an African American, I guess SRK and all of India for that matter now knows what my people experience here in America on the regular... racial profiling!

"TWB - Traveling While Brown" Well Put!!

@ Deepak Bansal - for real? i hope you are right and this was not a case of white americans hating on a brown man!

Deepti-"Ledzius, comparing Shahrukh with shadowy characters like Sanjay Dutt doesn't really work considering the fact that Shahrukh is one of the the most honest actors of Bollywood."

Sure, we Indians know that, but do you honestly expect US authorities to be well versed in the reputations of Bollywood figures?

To tell the truth, it is well known that many top Bollywood figures have been associated with D-Company and other dons. I wouldn't even rule out Shahrukh Khan in that regard.

We don't know if he was suspected of having drugs in his possession. Most Western countries exempt no one in that regard. Rush Limbaugh was arrested at an airport for carrying Via gra! And John Lennon was arrested in Japan for carrying drugs.

SRK and honest? Please get your facts right. He was the one who cowardly backed out when he had to testify against a terrorist who had threatened him and other bollywood bigwigs like the Roshans, rani, karishma and Preeti zinta. All of these people had filed a complaint against this terrorist complaining of extortion calls etc and when time came to testify it was only Preety Zinta who stood by her initial statement.
Point to be noted here is that he even played the dumb and dumber game in the cross examination session with the female PP to evade her questions.

Deposing before designated judge AP Bhangale, the SRK did not support the prosecution case, following which the public prosecutor, Rohini Salian declared him hostile
Thirteen others who had not supported the prosecution include Salman Khan, Shah Rukh Khan, Rakesh Roshan, Ratan Jain, Mahesh Manjrekar, Sanjay Gupta, Harish Sughand, Ali Morani, Annes Bazme and Mohammed Morani.

The laws in USA are the same for everyone, an Angelina and Brad Pitt may not get detained but they through their share of security checks and even a Mike Tyson or Robert Donwy Jr do the rounds of prison if they have to. And for all you know, we may not hear of Angelina and Brad getting detained for security , cause the kind of citizens they are, they would appreciate the process.

--And I personally hope the USA does not give a reason or have to explain their security process. They don’t owe anything to anyone.

--It could also be that the FBI got tipped off on a possible threat to his life since he sooooo famous and of the most 50 powerful people in the world!!!

Sorry, that was Paul McCartney, not Lennon

And in the end it is a publicity stunt for his upcoming movie--and nothing else.

So much for his honesty. The country where he shot his entire film and many others, he leaves no stone unturned to throw this country's reputation under the bus! Anything for cheap publicity,...drama, hype and lies.

Ledzuis, I have written about my experience of travelling in US and the dread I felt every time I went through the security checks and the racial profiling that we went through.

There have been ample cases of high handedness suffered by Indians and even Americans at the hands of the security officials and officials have gotten off saying they were just doing their job.

One white mom was even made to drink her breast milk just so the officials could be sure it wasn't some hazardous material. Another 60 something year old Indian I remember came on Larry King talked about how he was dragged off and interrogated by the air marshal because he was twitching too much with nervousness since the marshal had bought down a 'suspect' who apparently turned out to be a drunkard.

I am not bad mouthing all the American air port security officials across America but there should be some accountability as well.

Till it happens to someone personally its very easy to say -hey they were just doing their job.

And Sam far as SRK is concerned - he probably got some death threats and all. I don't know what went through his mind and what pressures were put on him. Since I do not know him I give him the benefit of a doubt and would like to know the reasons of every detention held not only in America but in India as well since transparency is the only way power can be stopped from being absolutely corrupt.

And btw SRK in his latest comment said it wasn't some publicity stunt and has talked about his experience. I don't think you can bribe the Airport people to publicise your film.

Why is this the most important news item on August 15th!

After watching Indian news channels making this the topmost news item, I decided to browse this site to see if there were any thought provoking, well written articles on India (ref: Independence day) and found SRK as the main news

I live in New York State and travel on business all the time. I look Indian and I speak like an Indian, but I have never been subjected to any profiling or additional security check. I think INS officers in US have a job to do and without knowing all the facts, I think they were just following routine procedures. Perhaps, something in SRKs profile or his response, may have triggered this. Perhaps his visa is close to expiry or he was carrying a lot of cash? Who knows, but to blame Federal employees just shows our hurt pride more than any thing.

AJ, write your own article:)

in the words of black american rodney king... "can't we all just get along?" lol

really, you expect US ICE (hey Das, INS doesn't exist anymore!) officers to recognize bollywood actors? come on! that is silly! he might be big news in India, but unless I seek news of him out here, it's not like he is in our papers or our TV all that often. when he does appear, if you were not interested, you could easily gloss over it.

and people from the US, even famous people, get detained and put into secondary here and abroad all the time.

I am sure that racial profiling does exist. I think we need to know why he was kept for 2 hours before we start flipping out shit.

also yes, I am sure they do have perfectly good records. but secondary inspection takes a long time, as there are usually quite a few people in there especially in NY. So if they did not know he was a celeb., they would not have expedited him and he would have had to wait in queue like everyone else. It's 2 hours, not 2 days.

SRK isn't the first. Remember the Kalam case not too long ago? Or Kamal Hassan? Or even Irfan Khan - despite the Slumdog mania?

I have to say I hate travelling to the US and avoid it if I can for precisely this reason - and I have a "non-Muslim" name plus am a woman. Last time I actually pointed out that I was really surprised that I was unfailingly picked "randomly" for special screening after it happened at the fifth airport in a row. Apparently I get flagged up because I travel a lot - albeit only through Europe. God only knows what it would be like if I had Middle Eastern stamps on my passport. Its a relief to actually get back to Heathrow!

SS: I agree that most Americans would not know SRK even though Newsweek put him on 50 most powerful people in the world list just this year. And you're right - knowing that simple fact would require Americans to actually read.

When a significant percentage of the population of the "world's most powerful country" is better known for being incapable of differentiating between Nazism and socialism, doesn't realise that Medicare IS socialised medicine and thinks Obama was born in Kenya, why be surprised that the immigration officers not only don't recognise SRK but can't even simply google SRK on their iphones!

anamika... point taken. but yeah, I mean honestly, I do not read Newsweek and I do know who SRK is and he really does not come on the news here hardly ever... maybe on something like Access Hollywood.

And i know what you are saying, but then if they did not know there was a reason to Google him, why would they.

I do understand the issues surrounding profiling in the US. It does happen, and I am not denying it. But I am not sure that characterizing the whole lot of us as ignorant morons is the answer.

I'm the most unlikely candidate for indulding in hurt nationalist pride of any kind; however, here's an interesting result of a PEWS survey about how much Americans know about the world. It is a fairly reliable survey. The problem of course is that there is no comparable survey for India. (I recognize this this entails a slight shift in the topic of discussion, but not my much more than a few mm)

_Public Knowledge of Current Affairs Little Changed by News and Information Revolutions
What Americans Know: 1989-2007_

http://people-press.org/report/319/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions

Some highlights:

"Other prominent national figures and world leaders are not as well known. When asked to name the president of Russia, just 36% recalled Vladimir Putin." (Putin was the president then)

"Using a common school grading scale in which 90% correct is the minimum necessary to receive an A, 80% for a B, 70% for a C, 60% for a D and less than 60% is a failing grade, Americans did not fare too well. Fully half would have failed, while only about one-in-six would have earned an A or B. "

Anectdotally, not a scientific survey (!), it is all to obvious that apart from the globally traveled Americans such as SS and others who make it their business to find out more, the "average" American is generally blissfully at unaware with many global issues. This in itself is not a problem but for the fact the US is a global power and its influence is felt in every nook and cranny of the world - hence the surprise when one first encounters some really inane questions from colleagues who one presumes ought to know a bit more. I will not repeat the question. This is patently NOT the situation in most European countries.

A post-script: some congressman, i forget his name (talking of awareness!) once commented that while ALL European or Asian or Canadian heads of states and politicians are functional in multiple languages, and for sure English (even though the Japanese and Chinese use interpreters, but are quite at home in many languages), it is embarrassing for American leaders when they go on official visit, to barely manage a word or two of French or German. Forget about other "difficult" languages. Exceptions such as John Kerry etc. do exist (as does SS and many others who make an effort to learn many languages) and yes, some politicians do speak Spanish due to the Hispanic votes at home. Which is not a problem I guess, but certainly something that is worth observing, as an anomaly.

But I digress from SRK! I might point out that Senator Edward Kennedy was detained not once but a few times. Once, the security person actually obviously knew who he was, but said once a name on the "no fly list" pops up, certain bureaucratic procedures automatically kick in. It is always hilarious when students of mine, working part-time at the airport, once in a while get to frisk me at the x-ray machines. They could conceivably say, "hey dr. so and so, being the nice guy you are and having known you for four years, please allow us to let you just walk past us", but I don't expect that to happen and if my name were to show up on some computer terminal, I don't expect them to vouch for me, simply because they know me! A separation of the formal and the personal is usually always in order at any of these bureaucratic situations and that is how it should be.

Aaman

How do I get to write here? That might stop me from taking digs at others :)

AJ

AJ:

please check
this out:)

re SRK:

in the immortal words of forrest gump

sh it happens

Temporal,

there's another forrest gump line that i simply could not figure out:

"life is like box of chocolates; you never know what you're going to get"

methinks I know exactly what I will get from a box of chocolates: not potato chips for sure. about life? you never know, and that's commonsense.

cs:

chocolates can cover different nuts...of the edible kinds...hence his quote...

also

replace box of chocolate with blind date

you never know how good/bad;)

As suggested by some commentators that there ought to be some transparency in screening system , I beg to differ and strongly object. If transparency happens, it will give Muslim terrorists an upper hand and advantage to crack the security system.

And for all those who came up with a whacko suggestion that Immigration officers(and Americans) need to Google and read better…oh well, they are doing their job absolutely fine. America is the center of attention and attraction in this whole wide world, you may hate it, but you can’t stay without it and you can’t ignore it either.
It’s just that Indian VIPs are used to getting a ‘preferential’ treatment and ‘Yes-Boss’ treatment, ‘quota status’, ‘immense pampering’ etc back in India, and unfortunately it doesn’t work in USA. So even a 2-hour detention comes down heavily on them!!

My proposition to SRK would be to never go back to USA and never release his movie that was made and shot in USA. If he really is insulted this is what he ought to do.

I’ve travelled in and out of USA several times in the past 20 yrs and never have I felt I was pulled out of a line because I’m brown with an Indian last name.
And for all the Muslim people who feel they get pulled up coz of their religion, well maybe you all need to unite in one voice and come down heavily on all these gangsters who promote terrorism in the name if Islam. And more so like SRK who turn a ‘hostile witness’ and let the cops(staking their own life) down who spent months giving him protection.


Excuse the other innocent regular people, who get a little alarmed when they come across someone who has a “Khan’ like last name!!

Thanks Temporal. makes sense now.

Sam, open a box of chocolates now, will you?

opening...chocolates are good, do you have some sugar free ones :)

Sam:

"opening...chocolates are good, do you have some sugar free ones :)"

trouble is, for folks who are looking for freebies, will never be happy. even if i were to offer you free, you might ask for a discount :) (Or, did you mean sugar free, not garden variety free:)

free things dont make happy CS(after all it is my body that has to intake the chocs), maybe they are a a deal for you :-)So enjoy them while they last!

Sam,

that's nuts...albeit covered with chocolate..

1. Shahrukh appeared on Newsweek as one of the 50 most powerful people in the world - NOT because he is "powerful" in the US.. but of his power in INDIA! 90% of the people in the US won't even care about India anyways. That doesn't make us irrelevant, but just that the perspectives and standpoints are different of different people.

2. Detained for 2 hours. Has any one ever been through the paper check etc.? It does take that much time. You can fault the system but you cannot ascribe intentions to the system.

3. Racial Profiling is a NATURAL instinct of Human Beings. Religions are BASED ON PROFILING. Someone is a "Believer" and someone is a "Non-Believer". One gets something.. other doesn't on a certain "Day". Atta came to US in a plane just as Shahrukh did. Both professed to identify with a certain "organized ideology". While Shahrukh and MAJORITY of those who identify with that "organized ideology" are NOT Atta....

... but there is no machine, no mantra, no majic pill.. no way as yet invented by the scientists.. to distinguish an Atta from a Shahrukh!

In matters of National Security, PROFILING IS CRITICAL. If you think I am talking nonsense.. try going to the Mecca for a stroll. Non-Muslims are FORBIDDEN BY LAW to enter Mecca. Why? Because of this:

"O you who believe(in Allâh's Oneness and His Messenger Muhammad صلي الله عليه Ùˆ سلÙ...)! Verily, the Mushrikun(polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh, and in the Message of Muhammad صلي الله عليه Ùˆ سلÙ...) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjiadal-Harâm (at Makkah) after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allâh will enrich you if He wills, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise." -- Qur’an, 9:28

Of course, Mecca's forbidden entry is not as much about "security" as it is about discrimination. But that's another matter.

Cheers,
Desh

Desh:

"3. Racial Profiling is a NATURAL instinct of Human Beings. Religions are BASED ON PROFILING."

nice joke to kick off a pleasant Sunday!

Desh:


"3. Racial Profiling is a NATURAL instinct of Human Beings. Religions are BASED ON PROFILING...If you think I am talking nonsense.. try going to the Mecca for a stroll..."

apologies for being insufferably stupid. your reasoning does make eminent commonsense to me. Some examples will make my point crysal clear:

1. For a few weeks, my natural instinct failed me and i failed to distinguish the profiles of my elbow from my ass. as a result, my elbow is sore after being wiped every morning. and my ass stinks. there's no alternative to profiling, when applied correctly.

2. The other day, some devout Muslims decided to Mecca for a stroll; but they were also suffering from temporarly deficit in their profiling instinct, and they ended up in Madras instead. Now, nothing wrong with Madras, but it does illustrates the point Desh is making. Profiling is important.

3. You might ask: but how does "race" come into the picture? Well, take a look at all the races in the Olympics or any sports meet. Without racial profiling, nobody will be able to sort the winners from the losers, the gold medallists from the tin medallists etc.

Eminent commonsense from Desh: racial profiling here to stay and nobody should do anything about it. Unless ie. one is not exactly interested in distinguishing the distinct profiles of one's ass vs. one's elbow, ie. people such as me.

I forgot to add,

Jeers,

CS

breaking news! some jokers in UP found something to occupy themselves with:

"Allahabad, Aug 16 (PTI) Congress workers today staged a demonstration and burnt the effigy of US President Barack Obama here for detention of Bollywood actor Shahrukh Khan at an American airport.

The party workers, who gathered in front of the historic Anand Bhawan, raised slogans against the US administration and termed as an "insult to one billion Indians" the questioning of Khan at Newark airport."

Nothing has ever insulted "one billion Indians" before.

1. In this case for some reason, the phrase "Racial Profiling" has been used, while suggesting that SRK was detained because of his Muslim identity. So, obviously the phrase has been used loosely. Unfortunately, I let that same phrase go through in the first sentence of my comment. I am sure a little bit of thought would have helped one to figure that out.

2. Profiling is a natural human instinct. And that is a fact, whether you like it or not. We take tests, we hire people of certain institutions, we suggest people of certain political parties will behave in a certain way...people of certain professions "ought" to be so-and-so (Doctors noble, Army men fearless, etc etc.); people of certain geographies will have certain qualities (German precision, French cuisine, Italian art etc)... and people in such categories have even the pressure to "live upto" a certain categorization.

You may not like it.. but its a fact. Human mind is prone to categorization. It cannot live without creating CONTEXT to any event. That's how mind THINKS!

And honestly, I find it ridiculous that someone finds ONE "profiling" bad than another "Profiling". I gave ONE example of Mecca.. which is an embodiment of Profiling at its worst... treating people from ALL other categories as "evil" or inherently "bad".

One can come up with many such examples.

3. Finally, its obvious that Profiling is like that proverbial elephant in the room that everyone wants to deny.

We are human because we DIFFERENTIATE. If we could TRULY.. not verbal.. not semantic.. not just for effects.. BUT TRULY experience EQUALITY.. we would be GODS. :)

Sign at the entrance to Jaggannath temple in Puri restricing entrance

is that "profiling"

and

in other temples where a dalit visit is scorned?

is that profiling?

and

if we accept that.... then why....

Yes, it is. One reason why I have vowed never to go to Jagannath again is because of what it is.

And, it is not "Accepted"! People have fought for a long time against the dalit/caste nonsense! From Raja Ram Mohan Roy.... to Vivekananda... .to Dayanand Saraswati.. to Gandhi.. etc. All these USED the VEdic texts and Scriptures to argue against the caste system.

Btw, I don't recall.. but remind me if anyone campaigned to change the verse or the law in Mecca?

Both are profiling. One is created by corrupted power, the other is INSTITUTIONALIZED and has "DIVINE" justification!

hum muwah’hid haiN hamara kaish hay tark-e-rasoom

MillataiN jub mitt ga’een ajzaa-e-eemaaN ho ga’een - Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib


Believers in one God, rituals we renounce,

Creeds, when dissolved, merge into one
Faith. Trans: K. C. Kanda

Desh:

"And honestly, I find it ridiculous that someone finds ONE "profiling" bad than another "Profiling". I gave ONE example of Mecca...which is an embodiment of Profiling at its worst..."

and honestly the other day I wanted to visit that XYZ Country Club but those idiots promptly profiled me as a non-member and kicked me out. I see what you are getting at. But really, not sure why Desh thinks that Mecca profiling is "profiling at its worst" but then through the other side of his mouth argues, so to speak, that profiling is a "natural instinct" that one cannot do without. I guess, he arrogates the right to create a hierarchy of profiles...ie. worse and normal, natural instinct etc. etc.

Desh:

"And honestly, I find it ridiculous that someone finds ONE "profiling" bad than another "Profiling". I gave ONE example of Mecca...which is an embodiment of Profiling at its worst..."

and dishonestly, i find it not ridiculous but mildly amusing how a guy who dabbles in quantum mechanisms (dabbles being the operative word here) sneers at others for distinguishing between "bad" and "normal" profiling but then himself pronounces on the "embodiment of the worst profiling". Talk of having one's illogical laddoos and eating them to...

"quantum mechanics" I meant (old timers might remember his claims about quantum mechanics and ancient India)

Desh:

"2. Profiling is a natural human instinct. And that is a fact, whether you like it or not."

Desh can like it as much as he wants, but the "profiling" he is talking about, by which he means "distinctions" that humans make, is a SOCIAL phenomenon and NOT a NATURAL INSTINCT. People in the past have also claimed that racial inequality, slavery, the worst aspects of the caste system, empire, colonialism, is NATURAL, but it is not. If these were natural, they would never evolove, change, collapse, done away with etc, until some dramatic genetic mutations were to occur. But they do, albeit to be replaced by other insidous SOCIAL distinctions. If we take Desh's argument to its illogical conclusion, I'm not sure why exactly he would be against the treatment meted out to the Dalits or the non-Muslim minorities in Saudi Arabia etc. Going by Desh's logic, it's all NATURAL, and so be it. Yet he had decided to boycott Jagannath. Selective "profiling"

As for distinctions that humans SOCIALLY (NOT NATURALLY) make based on religion, class, caste, nationality, ethnicity etc. , might I suggest

Pierre Bourdieu's _Distinctions_ (Harvard University Press)?

Failing which, perhaps Anthropology or Sociology 101?

everyone loves a good drama!


""The federal information minister, Ambika Soni, angrily suggested that India adopt a similar policy toward Americans travelling to India""


""Khan later downplayed the incident. "I think it's a procedure that needs to be followed, but an unfortunate procedure," he told reporters Saturday in suburban Chicago""

CS:

The club XYZ didn't let you in because you didn't pay their dues.. or are not part of the organization that pays for their expenses. The reason why Mecca doesn't allow your neighbor is because certain dude thought 1400 years ago .. that anyone who didn't believe his pronouncements was evil to begin with... then and ever since!

The rest of what you have written is froth. Not worth a comment.

Enjoy.
-d.

Desh,

If you are really desperate to get into Mecca, there's an easy way. No money to be spent. Join the club, man! You will be welcome! Think about it. Meanwhile, you can always visit the Jama Masjid in Delhi...not membership required. Just as if i wanted to get into XYZ, I would join it. But i'm a cheapsteak, or was that cheapskate.

as for: "The rest of what you have written is froth. Not worth a comment."

a frothy beer, or the "head" is nothing to sneer at. pass it on to me...

Jeers,

CS

hey heard a news, 3 indians comitted suicide for the fact that, their superstar, duperstar actor of the millinium got detained at States airport and faced the humiliation at the hands of our most distinguished partners i.e. USA.

I believe this might send the relationship b/n the 2 countries to doldrums and indefinate standstill.

i myself is suffering from pain and anguishment that since i heard the news i wanted to finish this life of mine, reason being that SHAHRUKH KHAN is considered as the Supreme God (one and the same thing) which ever roamed on the planet earth (Indian context) --- and HE is being treated for 2 hrs like dis.

more to it, my country's national image and soverignety to rest of the world has been jeopardised, which i cant bear any longer.

So i urge all my fellow Indians who think SHAHRUKH KHAN is the reincarnation of RAM/KRISHNA/SHIVA etc etc (actually there r approx 3.5 crores gods in India only) to get up and avenge themselves. this sacrifise will be in name of all those tears which my beloved SHAHRUKH has shed at that airport.

and that, folks, is a wrap.

(holy shit!)

Actual Incident->

SRK: My name is Shahrukh 'Khan'.
Sec. officer(American Accent): Shaeruk 'kaun'?

SRK: Palms facing officer and slowly moving from
chest outwards..'Hmm..ehh..ehh...Kaun
nahin..khan.
Sec Officer: Unnecessary hand motion and nervous
stammer. Possible terrorist!
Officers.. DETAIN!!

You're asking whether security checks and racial profiling are necessary evils. But look at this another way: How incompetent and wasteful is a US agency with access to the internet that requires more than 5 minutes to verify the identity and itinerary of one of the most famous people on the planet who is booked for public events?

Blindguide:

"How incompetent and wasteful is a US agency with access to the internet that requires more than 5 minutes to verify the identity and itinerary of one of the most famous people on the planet who is booked for public events?"

You are looking at it from an indvidual point of view. Organizations have a procedures to follow...which they of course sometimes circumvent, overlook, twist etc. Yet, there are procedures that kick in whenever some anomaly crops up. Or procedures that should kick in.

CS: Thanks, but my local YMCA has better benefits. At the very least you made it clear that Mecca (and the linked paraphernalia) is just a "club".... nothing to do with omnipresence/omniscience/et al. Increase in membership and all that comes with it is the only goal.

-d.

Desh,

in that case, try Medina instead...

@ smallsquirrel -----

actually seeing all this i do believe that i am living in holy shit, and i pity the state of what India is in.

i love my INDIA the most but hate to see what my fellow Indians (i pity for wat dey made dis country) are taking no stone unturned to make it holy shit.

single point issue -- for agony faced by 1 person, India comes to a standstill. we have made a non issue an issue.
I am so frustated tat nobady knows what china is upto vis-a-vis India, but ya "my poor chap shahrukh khan"
i pity indians for this n can never forgive dis tat wat my country is becoming --- with the help of dumbhead indians.
and if anybody gets offended by my views, try to change yaself, coz this time i m 1000% rite.

d:

actually seeing all this i do believe that i am living in holy shit, and i pity the state of what India is in.

do you mean holy see?

btw your are 99.9% right (am hedging)

as the sage bu hanifa is reported to have said to his adversaries on many occassions..."i know i am 99.9 % right but there is possiblity (of 0.01 %) that you may be right also"

Remember Dec 13 attack on Indian Parliament. It was possible because the security personnel were shit scared to subject our MPs' cars through security rigmarole.

Terrorists could sneak in there faking their vehicle as that of a VVIP car. Had we followed the principles of security first, ego next, as followed in USA, so many untoward incidents could have been avoided.

That's terrible, when will we put a stop to this nonsense. Yes, I understand that we need to protect our country, but if he says he's a STAR, then let him go by w/o any hassles. What will he think of we as Americans?

what shah rukh khan endured pales in comparision with what prof ravi shanker had to endure ~ t

Good News

My ordeal began with a party at a Chelsea gallery for the arts journal that I edit. Brilliant performances led to a boisterous dinner and then it was out to my car for the drive home to Connecticut and my wife and daughter. Turning onto Sixth Avenue from 34th Street, I found myself assailed by flashing red and blue. An amplified voice commanded me to pull over. The officer approached, flashlight fixed in my face, and ordered me onto the sidewalk. "Is there a problem?" I asked. Three other cops surrounded me. I started to explain what I was doing in the city ��" a poet returning from a literary event. The lead cop shouted, "Just do what I say!"And so I obediently did the field-sobriety dance: touched nose with pinky and stood on one foot, tightrope-walked the crack in the sidewalk, blew into the Breathalyzer. The officer conferred with his partners, then approached with a grin, hand extended as if to shake mine. "Good news," he said, "you passed the Breathalyzer." Then, with perfect comic timing: "The bad news is, there's a warrant out for your arrest." The extended hand reached for my wrist, twisting it behind my back. Arrest? For what? The officers spun into motion. The back door of the police van slid open, a hand pushed my head down and shoved me in. The officer turned to his partner. "Always a good day when you can bag a sand nigger." Streaks of streetlight receded into the distance through the slats of the police van's window, a rough jostle over potholes, my hands in the cuffs tightly immobilized behind me. At the 14th Precinct station my wallet was emptied, my shoelaces and belt taken and I was placed in a holding cell. I hadn't been read my rights or granted a phone call. After an hour my arresting officer returned ��" but only to take me for a mug shot and digital fingerprinting. Eventually he showed me my arrest warrant. It was for a 5-foot-10, 140-pound white male. I happen to be a 6-foot-2, 200-pound, Indian man. I pointed out the discrepancy. "Tell it to the judge," he said.


....


I've even read conspiracy theorists postulate that this movement is to getall brown and black people "in the system," have their identities andfingerprints fixed for cross-index. Perhaps that's reaching, but it's clearthat on top of being shabby police work, racial profiling also violates the4th Amendment which states authorities require probable cause prior to asearch and the 14th Amendment which ensures equal protection for everyoneregardless of race. I'm not prone to political agitation generally but inthis case, I feel compelled to advocate on behalf of all those whom I metthat weekend who have no platform and because I don't want Obama's electionand the idea of a post-racial America to obscure what's happening right infront of our eyes.

OMG! that is racial profiling, and *that* is heinous.

it is for sure. tell that to Desh, who claims it is a "natural instinct" and it's apparently idiotic to believe that humans can be otherwise. (desh's article and thread)

FWIW, I agree with Desh. Racial profiling is instinctive and had it been such an aberration as CS believes then we would never had that problem in the world. The very fact that it is so prevalent is more than proof for a fact that it is a natural instinct.

Evolution tries to suppress it by using left-brain analysis and then following it with rules and laws but it still rears its head. Humans find comfort in familiarity and like to flock with their own and view strangers with distrust. This could come from a herd mentality that nature builds into many animals to promote community and control aggression.

Coming back to racial profiling, we Indians do it more than anyone else. We are forever categorizing and judging people on base of region, religion, caste, language etc. It is certainly not something that is a rare perversion.

Being an analyst by profession, I think profiling is not such a cuss word. These are ways of grouping people on the basis of common traits and reducing chaos in categorization(which is necessary to build any system). The grouping is done based on recurring patterns. If 80% of people behave in a certain way then it is safe to build rules around it.

Let me give you an example at the airport I was stopped and my baggage checked for food items. The security officer at Newark told me (somewhat condescendingly), you must be carrying pickles. I wasn't. I am not a pickle fan. But 99% of Indians in my sample space (of my profile) carry prohibited food items in their baggage when they travel back from India. Hell a week back I came across a couple of folks who got vegetables like Baingan, Bhindi etc. from India! So if you want to enforce a rule will you not zero down on the area of most probability first? We are like low hanging fruits. I was inconvenienced yes. But why was I inconvenienced? Because all my friends are such pickle hogs :-)

That is how you design anything and that is how people design their security systems. You tell me what is alternative?

We have created the world that we have and things happen and they need aggressive and detailed methods to curb. The line needs to be drawn when human rights are violated in the process. That is not to be condoned. But a few feelings hurt here and there are no big deal, esp. if you look at the benefit is accrues in terms of security and confidence.

Hence my conclusion is that SRK should shut up and let's talk of national pride and self-esteem in issue more relevant areas.

ritu #66

tell that to ravi shanker (link in #63)

Ritu,

two sentences; make that three:

1. making distinctions between baigan bharta and roasted snakes is simply that ie. making distinctions.

2. racial profiling, the term as understood by law enforcement, is a different kettle of fish; verbose though i am, i am not gonna spell it out for you.

3. when as a consequence of racial profiling, innocent folks get handcuffed and dragged into jails, even if they are released later, perhaps some folks, such as you and desh, can say, "ah well, racial profiling is universal...look some people enjoy baigan ka bharta, others love stir fried snakes, what's all the fuss about"? Come to think of it, one can say anything at all, without any thought processes attached to words.

Dr. Ravi Shankar,

I do hope you read Ritu #66. No big deal really, relax and take it easy. After all, as Ritu, "an analyst by profession" who does not pack pickles in her baggage has intoned:

"That is how you design anything and that is how people design their security systems. You tell me what is alternative?...The line needs to be drawn when human rights are violated in the process. That is not to be condoned. But a few feelings hurt here and there are no big deal, esp. if you look at the benefit is accrues in terms of security and confidence."

Dr. Shankar, I trust only your feelings were not hurt. Get over it already. For the greater common good of course.

Ritu:

"Coming back to racial profiling, we Indians do it more than anyone else. We are forever categorizing and judging people on base of region, religion, caste, language etc. It is certainly not something that is a rare perversion."

agreed. in fact nobody really disputes this. ah, except for the twisted so-called Indian "nationalists" who believe that we Indians can do wrong; and if we do it now, it's all because of some monster called "the West". Delusions such as the one identified above, does not make it real.

Howeverr:

1. categorizing people on region, religion, caste, language, religion etc. is in different register than.

2. judging those categories according to a hierarchy of good, better, worse, evil etc. If it stays at mere judgement, it isn't that bad for most folks as it is for me. yet, no major damage done yet.

3. When we act on those judgments based on categories we have created - well, that's a different, horrendous story altogether. Perhaps only for me others who are blessed with an iota of commonsense. Othewise, the scenario that all too often we are stuck with is;

4. Hey, no big deal really when a large number of Jews, gypsies and gays are exterminated by the Nazis. Not the only example of the bloody effects of racial profiling and acting on it. Hey, this racial profiling thing is a "natural instinct", that try as we may to correct, will assert itself; get used to it.

5.There is no shortage of "scholarly" books arguing the rape is a human instinct too, and one "scholar"/biologist even argues that "perhaps" it has to do with evolutionary reasons. (David Barash, _The Whispering Within_). So, must we just get used to rape, presumably for the greater common good of some evolutionary logic that escapes women and satisfies the lust for violence for some men? (Not at all imputing this "logic" to Ritu, nor claiming that she is making this argument; so please don't misundestand me on this point. Just extending the "reasoning" of the "analyst" a wee bit further)

6. The question: have we or even the "analysts" learnt anything as humans, or is it are we condemned to sumbit to so-called "human instincts"?

The "good news" for Dr. Ravi Shankar:

""The lead cop shouted, "Just do what I say!"And so I obediently did the field-sobriety dance: touched nose with pinky and stood on one foot, tightrope-walked the crack in the sidewalk, blew into the Breathalyzer. The officer conferred with his partners, then approached with a grin, hand extended as if to shake mine. "Good news," he said, "you passed the Breathalyzer." Then, with perfect comic timing: "The bad news is, there's a warrant out for your arrest." The extended hand reached for my wrist, twisting it behind my back. Arrest? For what? The officers spun into motion. The back door of the police van slid open, a hand pushed my head down and shoved me in. The officer turned to his partner. "Always a good day when you can bag a sand nigger." Streaks of streetlight receded into the distance through the slats of the police van's window, a rough jostle over potholes, my hands in the cuffs tightly immobilized behind me. At the 14th Precinct station my wallet was emptied, my shoelaces and belt taken and I was placed in a holding cell. I hadn't been read my rights or granted a phone call. After an hour my arresting officer returned ��" but only to take me for a mug shot and digital fingerprinting. Eventually he showed me my arrest warrant. It was for a 5-foot-10, 140-pound white male. I happen to be a 6-foot-2, 200-pound, Indian man. I pointed out the discrepancy. "Tell it to the judge," he said."


And the "good news" from Desh # 41:


""Profiling is a natural human instinct. And that is a fact, whether you like it or not. We take tests, we hire people of certain institutions, we suggest people of certain political parties will behave in a certain way...people of certain professions "ought" to be so-and-so (Doctors noble, Army men fearless, etc etc.); people of certain geographies will have certain qualities (German precision, French cuisine, Italian art etc)... and people in such categories have even the pressure to "live upto" a certain categorization.

You may not like it.. but its a fact. Human mind is prone to categorization. It cannot live without creating CONTEXT to any event. That's how mind THINKS!""

Post Script: If indeed the mind could think and figure out the entirely different context between mere "categorization" or the creation of distinct categories and "racial profiling"

I also think there is a major issue when rogue police officers (or anyone) starts acting based on hate and prejudice. this was not even racial profiling, actually... it was a borderline hate crime. racial profiling is when a cop pulls over a black motorist in an expensive car in a poor area because he believes that the car is stolen or the driver is a drug dealer.

a cop pulling someone over and using race-based hate language and intimating that he needs absolutely no reason to arrest someone of a certain race.... that is a hate crime.

oh, and desh... yeah you are right, we do categorize... the issue is the headers we put on the tables.... do we put "human being who should be treated with respect" or do we put "sand n***er" or other such hate speech?

that is the big big big big different.

CS, something tells me Ritu is not aware of the incarceration of the Japanese Americans during the second world war.

In a twisted way its the same shit happening again we browns are paying the price of the crimes committed by those of our race and some are paying more than others.

Also saying - hey big shit you are talking about it considering the fact your countrymen are all racist doesn't work.

Why the hell should I put up with shit because someone else who happens to be brown is racist?

Why should I and others who are innocents be penalised for the crimes committed by others?

After going through the damn profiling time and again the brain does start ticking and one thinks enough is enough.

SRK was fingerprinted and in their system and yet the second round happened. So all this fingerprinting and taking of photographs as if we are prisoners doesn't save you from further inspection.

Lot of stuff happens and we have the right to voice our aggravation if and when they overstep the line of common decency and they have the right to throw us out if they don't like us.

As simple as that. Problem is many of us have to travel due to work and money makes us bow our heads and put up with all the slights and racial slurs thrown our way.

And sometimes its the fear that we may disappear and they may throw away the key that makes us cower. Living in a foreign land is never easy, I've lived it but what I am glad about is that finally there are more of us speaking about it and I feel relief that it wasn't all in my mind.

Is that a pickle or are you just glad to be in the USA?

Dee, surely you are not likening a 66 minute detention to what happened to the Japanese Americans in internment camps?

I do feel bad he got detained, but after 9-11 homeland security can not take any risks. Has everyone forgotten that we are still at war? Unfortunately, there will be inconveniences, even for celebrities and diplomats. I am sure everyone would rather have an inconvenience than have a plane blown up.

We are paying for the crimes of others. There is no other way of looking at it.

Dee, I understand that this is an emotional topic, but there are *always* other ways of looking at it.

not to be too ANAL about it, but some ANALysts need to ANALyze themselves, as long as their ANALysis is private. oops, the caps are jarring, not to mention trite.

SS,I agree there are other reasons but the effects are unfortunate on travellers.

hey SS #72,"this was not even racial profiling, actually... it was a borderline hate crime."

fair enough. we can think of this as rogue policemen too; but the fine line between "racial profiling" and the actions of rogue policemen may not always be that fine.

but at the same time, you did observe, and quite emphatically too, just a few posts ago, on the same issue:

SS #64:

""OMG! that is racial profiling, and *that* is heinous.""

which is not to say that one cannot change one's view. me do it all too often :) it's possible that you were being sarcastic in #64 - hard to tell :)

to state the obvious, (ie. 2+2=6), SS, you were talking about the same ravi shankar incident; two diametrically opposed viewpoints on the same issue from the same person :)

SS #72:

"I also think there is a major issue when rogue police officers (or anyone) starts acting based on hate and prejudice. this was not even racial profiling, actually... it was a borderline hate crime."

SS #64:

""OMG! that is racial profiling, and *that* is heinous.""

me having trouble squaring the two contradictory statments

Deepti:

"CS, something tells me Ritu is not aware of the incarceration of the Japanese Americans during the second world war."

Deepti, and if she were told about it, it could all be "profiled" and "categorized" under the mother of all categories - the "human instinct"

you are overthinking it CS. please, have a beer... they are not opposed... we were talking about racial profiling and I agreed, it was racial profiling at it's worst... then the more I thought about it I realized it was much worse than garden variety racial profiling, it was basically a hate crime.

please, chill. I mean that with love.

SS,

that calls for a beer for sure! and I get your point too!

A lot of comments while I was away, unfortunately, however much I would love to, I don't have the time to go down to a very detailed level, got to be running, so this is the last word from me for the time-being. At a top level let me deal with the points raised

1. Reg Ravi Shankar : Picking him up for getting his finger-prints could be justified, they way it was done cannot be condoned. I agree with SS that is not racial profiling and it is certainly not the same as being interrogated at an airport. When we establish system we have to build in checks too. This is a case of misuse of the system. I

2. Deepti: I understand your angst. I would be irritated too if it happened to me. But that is an emotional reaction. If you were responsible for homeland security and had to zero in to nab suspects how differently would you do it? What would be your strategy?

Think, whenever you establish a system even with the best intentions you can only cover 90%. A 10% will always be inconvenienced. If statistical data is giving you trends and patterns and you have to create a plan what will you do? Tough decisions have to be taken at times because the stakes are high and at the end of the day the security helps you as well. You don't want to be on a plane that got blown up because security was busy being 'equal opportunity nabbers'.

As far the Japanese Americans angle is concerned, SS addressed the issue and are we being a tad patronizing there?

And the bit on living in a foriegn land and 'wanting' to be in the US etc, is a topic for another day. Living in any part of the world has it's pros and cons. And no Aaman, it is not about pickles!

3. CS: Alas, our meeting point seems to be a distant horizon because I don't think you have even begun to grasp where I am coming from. The inability is mine that I cannot communicate, so lets drop this 'anal'yzing since it is getting, well, yes.. anal!

Cheers

ritu... one point. once you are in the country LEGALLY, if you are abiding the law, no one has the right to arrest you and take your fingerprints if you have done nothing wrong. there was absolutely no probable cause here and his civil rights were grossly violated up one side and down the other, if I understand the facts correctly.

on the other hand, *from what I know* (which is not much) SRK's rights were not violated. he was inconvenienced.

This is my final word on this subject: the US has a right to pull people into secondary for questioning at any time during the process of clearing immigration and customs, for any reason. It was 66 minutes and he was allowed to communicate with the outside world, including the Indian embassy. It is not as if he was held incommunicado for hours on end. is it pleasant, no. but those are the rules, and they are enforced with everyone. I know white people that are pulled into secondary for what seems like no good reason, either. it's a pain in the ass, but it is now a necessary evil.

and again is not just brown people that are inconvenienced. my cousins from italy are not so happy with the increased measures... they are from a visa waver country, but now have to submit a ton of information online prior to coming to the US... so is that now racial profiling too?

Ritu:

"3. CS: Alas, our meeting point seems to be a distant horizon because I don't think you have even begun to grasp where I am coming from. The inability is mine that I cannot communicate, so lets drop this 'anal'yzing since it is getting, well, yes.. anal!

Cheers"

Alas indeed, particularly so if you really believe that:

"" Reg Ravi Shankar : Picking him up for getting his finger-prints could be justified, they way it was done cannot be condoned.""

picking up somebody and fingerprinting him/her when no offence has been committed, as SS points out, is a violation of one's civil rights, regardless of whether it is done in a nice or a mean manner.

Little wonder our communicative horizons are far apart. You may cease to continue on this thread, and I can certainly see why, but if you continue, I will continue to humour you. If you wish to be voluntarily fingerprinted on the streets of NY, that's just fine. Please don't think others will take it lamely. It's not for nothing that there are rights and most of them were fought for, not granted. So I do know exactly where you are coming from, and no it's not because of my "natural instincts" that I categorize you in a particular manner; it's because of social indicators that your writing leaves behind. But heck, you have the right to offer your fingerprints and to even be hauled off in a police vehicle in front of a judge, on a warrant issued for a 100 ton martian with green eyes.

As for SRK, as I have repeated many times, no big deal and I really don't give two shakes of rant's (or was it a rat?) ass that he was questioned for 66 minutes. After second thoughts, he certainly didn't. It has become a political football of sorts in India. The same is not true for what ravi shankar underwent.

Ritu,

My last word (i AM capable of it!) on this topic:

categorization of people, articles, dishes, fashion into "wow" or "yuck" is different from "racial profiling" and no, "natural instinct" cannot be an alibi for injustice.

Sorry, that should have been last words, not word.

Cheers!

This is the last time I am responding on this thread. The way I see it - more browns especially Muslims are pulled up for security checks. If and when you are pulled up due to your race or religious afflictions it is racial profiling and there is no other way of looking at it. That it works and deters terrorists from getting entry into America through airports may make it a necessary evil. But it cannot be seen any other way.

I am a brown who has had bad racial experiences in US within and while travelling in the US and many of my muslim friends recount worse stories than those suffered by me while living and travelling in the US. The number of whites going through secondary checks are far less than Muslims. Its not a matter of inconvenience but feeling humiliated when it happens one too many times.

If it has to be done so be it at least don't deny that it is travelling while brown.

I had already made my position clear on the Japanese internment camps. It is a slippery slope that America at least the liberals and those of the ACLU ensure that America never slips down. The hatred against browns post 9/11 was at its worst and an aunt of mine was told to - drop dead in NY and I was told to go back to my own country and other stuff too happened that I rather not recount and spoil my day. In the Bush era it was as bad as it could get.

Ritu, sweetheart, I ain't patronising any one least of all you who is okay with racism, thinks its instinctual and someone who thinks two wrongs make one right.

I'm saying it as I have lived it. Your experience may have been different and you are welcome to your opinion as are others on the board.

Interesting debate. I agree with SS here. SK was not in anyway mistreated - they just made him wait for longer than he was used to. Big deal. He may be a celebrity, but so what? Everyone has to follow the rules. You don't like the rules, then you have two options. If you are a citizen, vote to change them. If you are not, the door is always open. Of course one can always criticize without getting out, and that's the third option (I too can't count, like CS sometimes ;)).

All this brouhaha is a little misplaced. Thousands of people are inconvenienced in the US airports everyday and it is not just Indians. It is not always due to hate crimes or racial profiling either. Often it is due to sheer incompetence. There was no need for Indian foreign minister to make a public statement. Every Indian citizen requires the same kind of protection; not just SK.

Regards,

Ravi

Sigh....funny that Jon Stewart once again proves to be the better analyst/commentrator:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-19-2009/shah-rukh-khan-detained-at-newark

I think I just peed myself laughing at Jon.

This might explain the incident:


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Heat-on-SRK-was-because-of-scanner-on-Bollywood-shows/articleshow/4916927.cms?curpg=1

SM,

thanks for this link.puts an entirely different perspective on the issue...

From that IP:

"sanjohn" has posted 1 comments
"backbone" has posted 1 comments
"gyani" has posted 1 comments

From that IP:

"sanjohn" has posted 1 comments
"backbone" has posted 1 comments
"gyani" has posted 1 comments

From that IP:

"sanjohn" has posted 1 comments
"backbone" has posted 1 comments
"gyani" has posted 1 comments

From that IP:

"sadiq aurakzai" has posted 3 comments
"sadiq aurakzai d.c" has posted 2 comments
"sadiq aurakzai, d.c" has posted 1 comments
"madhoo" has posted 1 comments
"bengali" has posted 1 comments