Desicritics Comments on Action Sociology: Human Rights with Sanitation

Comment by Somik Raha

Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:01:45 EST

Commonsense, thank you. I find there are many, many heroes in modern India, whose stories need telling. We need storytellers who will bring these stories out to the masses. I wish someone would make a film about EXNORA. Their story is quite amazing. In Chennai, a few decades back, it was an uphill task to get people to throw garbage in the right place. Instead, they'd dump it in front of their neighbor's house. Scavengers would come in and make an even bigger mess. A few people came together to brainstorm, and they came up with a simple idea. They hired the scavengers as "Street Beautifiers," got them each a tricycle cart with a small loan from a bank. The street beautifiers would pick up garbage from house to house and then dump it in the right place, all for a nominal monthly fee. With this system, the bank loan was paid off quickly, and the scavengers now had a job, which they could do with self-respect and dignity. This was the model of EXNORA, which has been replicated in many cities in the South. Further Reading: UNESCO Highlights EXNORA's story EXNORA website Article in India Together Hopefully, someone reading this will be inspired to get a videocamera and capture their story.

Comment by Somik Raha

Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:59:27 EST

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:41:20 EST

amitabh: ""My apologies for de-kertifying the texture of the discussion on DC."' oops! you misunderstoo. de-kertification is urgently needed on DC (ie. as opposed to Kerty's views that spread negative spirit all around)

Comment by Somik Raha

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:34:01 EST

Amitabh, I am sorry your scheme did not work. It is unfortunate that Sulabh and other good projects need to go to the government for land - it is because the government controls public land. I wish it were otherwise. In any case, have you considered raising money so you can buy land for your paraplegic care center? People do such things all the time - why go to the government at all? If you prepare a plan and explain how you wish to serve paraplegics, those who care will come forward to help you.

Comment by Amitabh Mitra

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:17:22 EST

Dear Somik, the idea is fantastic, its implementation great and your movie too is beautiful. Sulabh Sauchalay is nothing new but what worried me during those times was the way a NGO could get it constructed in a record time. Even the idea of NGOs were still new during that period. Yes, it is not rustic. Iam not trying to pull anyone down. I had just looked beyond the 'Aam Admi Toilet Scheme'. I wish I could get a quarter piece of land from the Government next to the Sulabh Sauchalay in Gwalior for a Free Paraplegic Care Centre. That would be just dreaming, my friend.The Sulabh Group of industries is well managed and well connected. My apologies for de-kertifying the texture of the discussion on DC.

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:41:49 EST

all silly, assinine, unbecoming so-called jokes from me aside, such measures are long overdue, so well deserved kudos to you highlighting the fact that someone is actually taking steps to resolve a major problems that afflicts all cities and towns. most well-heeled people in most cities can always enter a restaurant to use their facilities, an option not usually open to the "aam aadmi". good stuff somik for diverting de-kertifying (Kerty) the texture of the discussion on DC

Comment by Somik Raha

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:34:29 EST

Amitabh, can you tell me which shauchalay you are talking about? Have you watched the film yet? I have shot at least two toilets - one in front of AIIMS and the other in Indira Gandhi Colony (a slum) - they hardly match your description of a five-star hotel. When I interviewed the users of the toilet, they hardly gave the reaction that you are talking about. Since then, I have personally used Sulabh's Shauchalay in other places - and never felt it was a 5-star hotel. I guess its the norm to pull someone down if they are trying to do good and being successful. But, I am still trying to look beyond your cynicism and find an argument that makes sense. Before you respond, please take a look at the film (it is now embedded in the post) and tell me what I missed.

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:30:19 EST

good one amitabh!! a couple of decades ago or so, some international volunteers (not yet called NGO's) took on the commendable task of building toilets in some villages in northern india. a year later they came to check out the fruits of their endeavour. all the toilets, since they were "pucca" were used as goat/cow shelters and as for the business of toilet, it was business as usual, in the great outdoors. (Although this doesn't work in the cities: "dekho gadhaa moot raha hai"!!)

Comment by Amitabh Mitra

Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:35:17 EST

"Pathakji ney badhiya 5 star hotel banaya hai" These are the comments from the common man. "Dekho bahar mucho wala durwan bhi khada hai" But I said to them, 'This is your Sauchalay' They replied, 'No that cant be mine, that can never be mine. That belongs to Pathakji only. We are happy with our railway toilets'

Comment by commonsense

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:38:35 EST

The Sulabh Sauchalay movment is quite obviously inspired by the children of Macaulay to convert us into Western non-Indians. Our last freedom, that of shitting and peeing on the streets, is now taken away from us. What next? Will we be forced to wipe our enormous posteriors with toilet paper and in the process, destroy our forests? No question about it, an insidious attempt to Westernise us, under the guise of "civilization". I look forward to the likes of Kerty to rescue us from this ultimate humiliation that strikes at the very heart of what defines us as being distinctively different from "the West". If you havenen't experienced the gentle breeze blowing around your expose "netherlands" in the wide open spaces on a crisp summer day....well, you haven't experienced much in live and are in all likelihood a victim of western imperialism and patently colonial attitudes.

Comment by Amitabh Mitra

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:51:16 EST

The Sulabh Sauchalay movement started by Pathakji captured Indian towns at a very fast pace, faster than anyone can imagine. I have always wondered about the procedure by which such buildings can be erected on Government land within the heart of the town. My apologies, but even if I had to build a free clinic on a Govermment land, it took me years after recommendations from the right people to procure a small piece of land outside Gwalior. Implementation of an idea at a breakneck speed within the country known for bureaucratic inefficiencies makes me feel uncomfortable. The Sauchalay is built close to the Railway Station but have we ever noted the statistics of people using them.

Comment by Somik Raha

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:05:37 EST

kaffir wrote: Regarding using composting toilet in residential building, would you know if there's some interest in it, or whether it has been tried in India? Is the cost of installation a challenge, or is it the law/permits (i.e. residential buildings cannot have a composting toilet)? And what are the costs associated with installing such a toilet? These are good questions. At the time I spoke to them, Pathakji mentioned that they were interested in expanding further. I don't think the law will be a problem, given Sulabh's track record. For residential units, a practical solution might be to pool all the excreta in one processing facility, and use that to generate and supply bio-gas and electricity to the units, to lower conventional energy dependence. I think the whole setup is a little expensive - takes a few years to pay for itself. The big stumbling block, as far as I understand, is that Sulabh is an NGO, and NGO's have limited access to capital. Although Sulabh has had such a wide impact, Pathakji still felt that he hadn't done enough (imagine!). He mentioned he was exploring starting a for-profit company, but I don't know if he's done it yet. Perhaps if someone was interested and spoke to him about it, we might have a commercial enterprise that can expand and provide these solutions at a much larger scale.

Comment by Somik Raha

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:56:55 EST

kaffir wrote: Also, are there instances of this composting toilet being installed in residential or commercial buildings? If you are referring to the two-pit pour flush toilet, it is especially suited to rural and semi-rural India, where most people use bucket toilets. For the bio-gas and electricity generating technology shown in the film, the main challenge is that a certain quantity of excreta is required to make this work, which is true in the case of public toilets. I had asked them about residential complexes being built around this. There weren't any at the time of making the film (2006).

Comment by Somik Raha

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:51:43 EST

Morris wrote: From what you describe I think Bindeshwar Pathakji is a modern day RUSHI. A truly genuine sage. Indeed. In his interview in the film (toward the second half), you will find he is so simple, and humorous about his life experiences - especially when he talks about his grandmother and father-in-law.

Comment by Somik Raha

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:49:02 EST

Kaffir wrote: Where is the compost from toilets used, and how long does it take for it to be ready (I'm assuming one year or so)? I'd like to know more about that. Also, are there instances of this composting toilet being installed in residential or commercial buildings? The compost is used in fields as fertilizer. It actually hardens over time, and Sulabh has machines that grind it into a powder. There are some shots of this in the film. In fact, some museums have asked for the hardened compost and they will then decorate it and display it.

Comment by kaffir

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:17:41 EST

From what you describe I think Bindeshwar Pathakji is a modern day RUSHI. A truly genuine sage. Morris, I agree. I read about him and his amazing work more than a year ago, and his story is fascinating as well as a template for all those angry activists who are all too eager to prop up "enemies" in a bid to justify and fuel their anger. Here's a guy who hit upon a brilliant idea that solved more than one set of complex problems with one solution without using righteous anger. Best of all, his means and his end are spiritually aligned, and brought about positive results.

Comment by Morris

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:37:54 EST

Somik Raha From what you describe I think Bindeshwar Pathakji is a modern day RUSHI. A truly genuine sage.

Comment by kaffir

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:11:26 EST

Regarding using composting toilet in residential building, would you know if there's some interest in it, or whether it has been tried in India? Is the cost of installation a challenge, or is it the law/permits (i.e. residential buildings cannot have a composting toilet)? And what are the costs associated with installing such a toilet?

Comment by kaffir

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:58:57 EST

Somik, Where is the compost from toilets used, and how long does it take for it to be ready (I'm assuming one year or so)? I'd like to know more about that. Also, are there instances of this composting toilet being installed in residential or commercial buildings?

Comment by Somik Raha

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:48:50 EST

It might be that they need more social marketing in Gwalior. The film below discusses their experiences on this issue. embed src="http://blip.tv/play/AeLNEY+pVA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="510" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">embed> Watch directly at: http://blip.tv/file/1607032

Comment by Amitabh Mitra

Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:45:12 EST

Bindeshwar Pathak has indeed created a revolution by making Sulabh Sauchalay at every town in every province. I have seen them in Gwalior but I really couldnt understand the reasons for them being so underused. He should bring this revolution to Africa.