http://desicritics.org/ Superior South Asian bloggers on Culture, Media, Politics, Sport, Business, and Technology. en Copyright 2006 by the authors Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:30:13 EST http://backend.userland.com/rss BC custom software http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-357482 Interessante Informationen. 357482@desicritics.org Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:30:13 EST http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-357481 Interessante Informationen. 357481@desicritics.org Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:29:33 EST http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338758 Schaerbeek: I'm as yet unable to open the links referred to, but I'll do that soon. Thanks for giving the references. I concede that there is often a sense of hurt whever we talk of imports of any kind, especially of the technological variety (why do we depend on imports of Boeings, Intels or WindowsVista?) Here,however, is a question of making it difficult for primary stakeholders to think of manipulation. Perhaps one example will help. There are 35 States in India. School Final Board Exam question papers are almost always printed by a printing press located outside the state where exams are held. No question of State-level Pride is invoked. 338758@desicritics.org Fri, 8 Aug 2008 04:24:48 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338757 Schaerbeek: I'm as yet unable to open the links referred to, but I'll do that soon. Thanks for giving the references. I concede that there is often a sense of hurt whever we talk of imports of any kind, especially of the technological variety (why do we depend on imports of Boeings, Intels or WindowsVista?) Here,however, is a question of making it difficult for primary stakeholders to think of manipulation. Perhaps one example will help. There are 35 States in India. School Final Board Exam question papers are almost always printed by a printing press located outside the state where exams are held. No questions of State-level Pride is invoked. 338757@desicritics.org Fri, 8 Aug 2008 04:23:43 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338725 In the Netherlands, they had quite simple voting machines : no touch screen, no computerized poll book, no network... Nevertheless, they returned to paper.Cf http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080521-netherlands-says-nee-to-electronic-voting.html Don't confuse, the voting computer on the photo is not a Dutch one, here is a photo : http://www.ordinateurs-de-vote.org/machines-a-voter-agreees-en-France.html , these Dutch machines are used in France, though their deployment is suspended by the government. You say : "The encoding and chip manufacturing is done not in India but in a foreign country". Is it really reassuring information ? Don't you think fair elections are part of national security and independance ? 338725@desicritics.org Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:12:52 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338653 To Matif: I read the article referred to. I learnt a few things, but I have a different view on some. For example: ballot boxes using paper ballots can also be stuffed. Boxes can be - and have been - put into ponds. There is no protection against guns or bribes. The moot point is: overall, are EVMs better or worse than ballot boxes? Provided we talk of standalone, simple machines using fused machine language without application software, EVMs are better as it captures the voter's intention properly - there being no invalid between-the-candidates marks. 338653@desicritics.org Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:14:34 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338559 The original article is in French. You could have on idea of the concepts by reading Financial Cryptography web page: http://www.financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000195.html "principle 2 : The system must not be required to be secret, and it must be able to fall into the hands of the enemy without inconvenience;". There are also many references about the Kerckhoffs' principles on internet. You could also have a look on the article «Transparency in Electronic Voting : the Great Challenge », IPSA International Political Science Association RC 10 on Electronic Democracy. Conference on "E-democracy - State of the art and future agenda", Stellenbosch University, South Africa, 22 – 24 January 2008. Easy to find on internet and specially written for people working on election organization. 338559@desicritics.org Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:38:34 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338555 Marga: I must thank you for your very thoughtful comments. Before I respond, could you please give me a link to the Kerchoff's demonstration of 1800 that you talk about? 338555@desicritics.org Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:02:17 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338554 Actually, the question is not about security but about ethics. A real democratic election must be transparent. The problem with EVM (and with all electronic voting machines) is that the electors can not directly see (with their eyes) the counting. Electors have to believe the machine, or the expert that tells them that all is fine. In democracy, the power belongs to the people. The people must have the possibility to control the electoral process because elections are the process which transfers this power from the people to the elected persons. On security : the argument that the software is secret and that all is secure is very strange because it presents several flaws. Firstly : all the people who are working for the company which makes the software know the secret. Secondly : if someone succeeds to know the secret, he/she will be able to tamper with the software. Do you really think that ALL the EVMs used in India are ALWAYS under surveillance. A few hours are enough to make reverse engineering even if the "machine language that cannot be understood by human beings"... This argument you developed is "security by obscurity". It has been demonstrated by Kerckhoffs in the late 1800 that this is not a convenient concept to ensure security. Modernity is not technical but ethical, so let's be modern. Marga 338554@desicritics.org Tue, 5 Aug 2008 07:58:09 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338488 Jawahara: I get your point about the joke. But of course, you know that what is meant is that we can trust Indian EVMs to record our voting intentions safely. Commonsense: US Electronic Voting uses a different kind of touch-screen computers, networked with each other. There were no audit trails possible and problems arose when someone demanded a recounting. 338488@desicritics.org Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:48:45 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338485 non-electronic voting isn't any "safer". remember 'hanging chad' and what a bodyblow it inflicted on the american body politic? btw, i cannot recollect exactly who Chad was and why exactly he was hanged. 338485@desicritics.org Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:19:11 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/08/03/142923.php#comment-338461 Well, I am almost 100% certain that they are safe, i.e., there have been no recorded instances of voting machines exploding and killing people, and no one has managed to get a hand or some other appendage caught in one.....so I guess the real question is: are they reliable? :-) 338461@desicritics.org Mon, 4 Aug 2008 06:38:10 EDT