Desicritics Comments on Fiction: Dreading Ugly Girls

Comment by Chaitanya S

Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:30:56 EDT

Pithan, I can see where you are coming from. But you should also realise that modeling is a source of employment for many. Everyone has a right to use whatever skills he/she has to making a living. I dread to think what all those creative people in ad agencies would do if their primary job would be to mention only a company's product/ cost and location. You can't compare G4S with P&G or a Mercedes Benz because their products and the markets which they target are totally different. The Citi Group do have security services I think, and they do advertise.

Comment by pithan

Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:27:13 EDT

Originally what was Information became Promotion - advertising is fundamettaly a capitalist idea used by all - modelling (part of advertisment) by people is a degradation of the human sprit particularly an insult to society - display only product, cost and where it is available - let people decide whether the product /price is worth and let the product /service be its brand ambassador - have you seen any ad for Group4 security services???

Comment by Chaitanya S

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:57:48 EDT

Sorry not HIM...He :-p

Comment by Chaitanya S

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:37:53 EDT

Temp: "writing in the third person is a greater challenge for the author and ultimately more demanding and challenging." Why do you think I stick to first person ;-) But honestly, if someone feels writing is challenging, God bless him/ her. I find third person narratives impersonal, especially for simple subjects. And switching from first to third isn't difficult, just go to MS Word "find" I "replace all" him. :-) As far as monotonous and predictable is concerned, a bad story is a bad story. Narrating it either way won't change that fact.

Comment by temporal

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:36:10 EDT

Since the writeup is always in first person, at times the character is mistaken for me personally. other draw backs of the first person singular narration: * monotonous * predictable also, and others may disagree, writing in the third person is a greater challenge for the author and ultimately more demanding and challenging

Comment by Chaitanya S

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:25:23 EDT

Temple: I totally understand what you are saying. I never have more than 2 characters in my fiction. Since the writeup is always in first person, at times the character is mistaken for me personally.

Comment by Temple Stark

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 05:12:11 EDT

I would also add, that I have characters in my fiction saying things I do not, myself, believe, That's the nature.

Comment by Chaitanya S

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 01:49:46 EDT

Hi LogicGirl, Thanks for the feedback :-) The length of the story is the last thing on my mind unless it's for a publication. I feel comfortable with my style of writing so I don't see myself shortening sentences or changing the style of narration in the near future. But I'm definitely not going to post anything this long in future on DC. Will keep it exclusively for my blog :-) As far as thoughts going through a person's mind is concerned, we have a certain view, Aditi has another. To each his own. Considering over weight people, all I can say is that I see no advantage in being fat.

Comment by LogicGirl

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 01:26:08 EDT

Well-written piece, but would flow better as a short story with some editing - for instance, you don't have to lay it all out for the reader. Shorten the sentences, and imply with imagery/ allusion, what you want to convey rather than straight-forward narration. Just a thgt.... Aditi said" And it is okay for a guy to think in terms of client needs when at work. But during a conversation with a distressed friend on a terrace if all he can see is "pudgy dusky features" then his standards are definitely unrealistic not to mention callous." Well, I don't know about that. Sometimes, I do have similar thoughts about overweight friends, as I watch them complain about this and that. Nothing vicious, mind you...but nevertheless, it's there. I am sure they have their own set of running commentary about me (about this or that physical or personality attribute) as they watch me talk....It's human nature. And "small head, big body" is good proportion? That is news to me cause runway/fashion models always seem to have huge heads and frail looking bodies - almost alien-like. http://www.thelogicgirl.com

Comment by LogicGirl

Fri, 8 Aug 2008 01:21:23 EDT

Comment by anand

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:13:03 EDT

so fine it wasnt appropriate... so what? that wasnt the issue anyways. so get over it. i was discussing PHYSICAL ATTACTIVENESS. (# 28) objections anyone on my views on PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS??

Comment by smallsquirrel

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:55:44 EDT

oh for the love of god. anand, the last thing I will say to you is that you honestly need to learn how to read. this conversation is not going anywhere, so in order to not further derail conversation on the author's chosen topic I will bow out now. for the record, I do not think I am too smart. I think you contradicted yourself and then did not feel like having a proper adult debate on what you had said. you clearly cannot take criticsm well and got defensive when I told you that the use of the word bitch in the context you used it was uncalled for. so if you can think rationally, maybe you might want to consider why "dirty" words (as you called them) are appropriate in some contexts and not in others.

Comment by Temple Stark

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:45:34 EDT

I can only wholeheartedly second that sentiment Chaitanya S. Other concerns regarding policy, please send to the editors, like myself, off-thread and we will respond. Thank you both, all. Temple

Comment by Chaitanya S

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:25:53 EDT

Anand, The editor seems to have snipped off the "personal attack" against you. So you can now stick to the topic of the post and continue airing your fascinating views. SS, I've read your comments on other threads and I must say you do provide some interesting inputs. Maybe you two could bury the hatchet and get back to what you do best ! :-) (Damn I'm sounding like a patronizing old fart and I LOVE it !)

Comment by anand

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:15:57 EDT

small squirrel (# 38) i never said that you attacked me personally. but in the same post you did just that ! "grow up a wee bit before wearing the big boy pants " WTF is that supposed to mean. not that i give a rats ass. you think youre too smart. and then first you say "if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen" and then utter "grow up a wee bit ..." to get a reaction so i really do get pissed and cant take the heat. not gonna happen. i can think rationally.

Comment by anand

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:05:54 EDT

smallsquirrel you have critisized my explanation on only one basis ....that it hurts unattractive people.

Comment by smallsquirrel

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:24:01 EDT

anand... to use a bad cliche... if you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen. this is a forum for discussion and debate. I did not attack you personally. you need to get over it. Also, you did not appreciate my criticism of your explanation. Amd for the record I am all for "dirty" words, dear.. check out some of my posts and/or comments. but the one you used was in poor taste. [edited out the sentence here as a personal attack - T.S.]

Comment by anand

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:35:12 EDT

smallsquirrel ya i know i used the word bitch and now everythiong ive said makes no sense. i hate it when ppl act that way. even if youre being RATIONAL but you use a dirty word youre bullshitted by people. ok what do you wanna hear.. SORRY. im SORRY for using the word bitch. i take it back. anyways. you tell me then if its not about fairness and anorexia and its not about having good proportions then what is it about. why does rationality hurt people so much. i assume youre a logical educated mature person why does it hurt you so much. im not against people trying to imporve themselves with what they have. but why do you disagree if i say that proportions, facial structure and shape, head shape, body structure etc matter to attractiveness more than fairness and anorexia. and unfortunately these are also the things we cant change. whats the big ego issue or whats so threatenening about saying that? is it just like telling kids theres no santa? you are being wishy washy here bcos according to you physical attractivenss is niether about being thin and fair or about prportions. then what is it about? enlighten me. P.s i would appreciate if you critisize my explanations rather than the dirty word i used or the fact that i wasnt CALM. seriously.

Comment by Chaitanya S

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:55:51 EDT

Anand: Thank you for clarifying your statements. I think you and SS are on the same plane now :-) Kerty: Love your out of the box take on the whole thing ;-). As far as aging males and females are concerned, I feel it depends on the individual's lifestyle. So for every Mel Gibson there is a Hema Malini and for every Sean Connery there is a Maharani Gayatri Devi, who have aged gracefully. Unless you have any statistics or examples, it's hard to tell which gender ages any better than the other. My take on your discussion about inner and outer beauty is that you call a person "good looking" if he/she is beautiful from the outside and "good natured" if he/she is beautiful from the inside.

Comment by smallsquirrel

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:40:53 EDT

anand.. calm down guy... this is a discussion and you have to be able to roll with it. you should know that women are not going to take kindly to a man calling a woman a bitch in basically any cirsumstance. there is a difference is saying that people are bitching (although it is a fine line) and then calling a woman a bitch. sorry if you do not get the distinction but I can guarantee you that you should not be surprised if people are offended by that term. it could be a tone or language issue but to me it sounded like you were backing up the stereotypes and not criticizing them. and sorry, you cannot hide behind "i'm just telling the truth." That is not an argument. it's a cop out. if you are meaning to destroy the myth, I am not sure that your argument communicated that well. you really ended up blaming the people for not coming to terms with it. don't you think that is not exactly their fault. we have media that tells people that there is no excuse for being ugly or fat, so of course people look for excuses. your tone was one of "you are stupid if you make excuses because you cannot figure out that God made you ugly!" then you call them names. So, can you see my point???

Comment by kerty9

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:36:26 EDT

I wrote this a while back. Though not everything in it is relevant to topic at hand, it has few relevant observations and myth-busters. So here it goes.. As people often claim that the beauty is in the eyes of beholder. But seriously, why is that so? If it is really that beautiful, everybody should be able to behold it and agree that it is indeed beautiful. If one has to rely on the beholder and his/her subjectiveness to consider it beautiful, than it lacks that universality and objectivity and impartiality. If something is really beautiful, everybody should be able to see it as such. As they say, every human being is inherently beautiful and worth loving. But seriously, is it really so? Than why we insist on laying conditions for loving a person? The whole notion of love marriage is that only certain person can be worthy of a person's love. If asked to marry an unknown person, most would cry foul 'but I don't know that person. How can I love and live with that person?'. We all have our conditions to like and love a person. God must be very partial to men. Men do not have to rely on outer beauty or inner beauty, plus even when they are past 50, we would be discussing who is hot and sexy and who is not. For women, outer beauty fade quickly, and by 40s, nobody talks about them as to who is hot and who is not. Women over 40 seldom make it to top-10 sexy women. New crop of beauties in their 20s are waiting in the wings to take center stage and upstage their predecessors. As they say, beauty is only skin deep. But is it so really? Skin is all beauty has. And since skin is tied to age so much, women don't have too many years to fall back on outer beauty. Plus not all women are endowed with skin beauty - may be 1 or 2 out of 10 at the most may be blessed. Skin beauty is not universally endowed to all women. So for vast majority of women, their beauty rests in the eyes of the beholders. Thus needing to develop and fall back on inner beauty remains inescapable. But can we have top-1o hot list for inner beauty? Because inner beauty too is in the eyes of beholder. Though eyes can't behold it. One has to experience it, feel it. Like a son sees in his mother no matter how ugly or old she may look. Or what a guy may see in ugly looking wife even at age 50 and beyond. That means inner beauty is so individualized, it can not be felt by all. On the other hand, it is accessible to every person who seeks to achieve it. I guess that rules out inner beauty salons, inner beauty pageants, top 10 lists of inner beauties.

Comment by anand

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:35:50 EDT

smallsquirrel i used the word bitch because you hear totally unattractive girls (no sin) BITCHin about not being anorexic and fair and thus unattractive. i have nothing against them personally. secondly i am not criticising unattractive people. what made you say that. if they cant change their head shape/size, face structure, height and body structure then so what? they should know that physical attractiveness depends more on these factors rather than on being thin and fair and losing some weight from your abs. do you like people being tricked by ads that show them they will become beauty contest winners by using their abs workout machine, fairness creme or shampoo etc ?? if im just telling this truth doesnt mean im critising people. and since you are so against this 'fairness' craze yourself you should be agreeing with this ! im trying to bust this fairness/thinness = attractiveness myth.

Comment by Chaitanya S

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:30:52 EDT

SS: Thank you for bringing forth the sorry state of our modeling industry with your example. Unfortunately most of us still suffer from a colonial hangover. The usual brief for a child model is "FAIR, chubby & cute". It's hard when a dusky kid with absolutely angelic features comes to your office. I feel more for the parents than the child. As far as Anand's comments are concerned, I think he is laying more emphasis on proportions rather than skin tone. For photoshoots the skin tone takes a back seat and facial features play an important part since lighting and makeup can adjust the skin tones.

Comment by Chaitanya S

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:22:41 EDT

Anand: "attractiveness is about proportions and shapes". You are absolutely correct. :-) I understand you have been brutally honest (and off the record, maybe you are correct on most counts). But sometimes it's better to keep the bitter truth under wraps since it may tend to offend a lot of people. So the truth does more harm than good. Peace !

Comment by smallsquirrel

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:18:38 EDT

anand, maybe you were trying to be funny in the beginning of your comment, but I found it in poor taste (your use of b**ch). I have a feeling you were trying to sound campy, but to me it did not come off right. just sayin. also, yeah fine, but what you're saying also doesn't make any sense! now you want to criticize people about factors they have no control over? I cannot control my height, my head shape, and my proportions. even if I gain or lose weight, those things stay the same. my whole issue is with the obsession with fair skin in India. I find it revolting. I was horrified to find "fair and lovely TEEN" on the market, making the youth of India feel inferior to their european counterparts. all the bollywood vids now feature eastern europeans, who simply cannot get the dance moves quite right, and to me they all look cheap. and this is coming from a firang. The height of it all ended up being something I benefitted from myself, but ambivalently so. I have a desi friend who is a professional model. Her agency told her they needed a baby the age of mine for an ad. Apparently they had cast a hot ukrainian model for the mom, and did the casting call for the baby in Bangalore. They were shocked when on camera the mother and baby were not believable together. So my daughter got the chance to star in an India-wide ad campaign, but I left feeling crappy that an Indian company felt the need to use foreign models in its ads for baby products.