http://desicritics.org/ Superior South Asian bloggers on Culture, Media, Politics, Sport, Business, and Technology. en Copyright 2006 by the authors Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:02:03 EST http://backend.userland.com/rss BC custom software http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-352725 "Personally, I think pattals, kulhads (and banana leaves down south) are far better for the environment than styrofoam, paper plates etc." - I couldn't agree more with you Anamika. I'd also think that it's beyond a personal opinion, and can be proved using some criteria as well as data. I've read some cons about kulhads (which I don't know whether they're true or not), but the other two - for sure, they are organic (in the sense of matter, not standards), biodegradable and/or after use, provide some food for cows, whereas styrofoam containers will likely remain with us for many years in landfills. This is one example where what's been done traditionally and culturally is way ahead of what science delivered (styrofoam containers) and western way of making disposable utensils. But I wouldn't be surprised if some folks (like Roshan) by default accept what came from the west to be "better", and feel ashamed of plates made from leaves. 352725@desicritics.org Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:02:03 EST http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-338807 It is better that we stop being idiots and stop debating this topic. 338807@desicritics.org Sat, 9 Aug 2008 09:48:27 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-338806 north indians have this image of south indians as being very miserly and frugal. this i think is because of reletively greater poverty in south rather than a habit. 338806@desicritics.org Sat, 9 Aug 2008 05:46:03 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-338768 Shwetha - nowhere is it implied that people "only" feel the need to change the practice of sitting and eating on the floor, and being served on banana leaves, and mehendi.. If you want to discuss other problems in India like terrorism or inflation, I'm afraid you are then posting on the wrong thread. You can always go to the appropriate threads. 338768@desicritics.org Fri, 8 Aug 2008 05:32:53 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-338721 Among all the things that need to change in India, it is sad that people only feel the need to change the practice of sitting and eating on the floor, and being served on banana leaves, and mehendi! Ledzius, If you have not realized, you comments are in extremely bad taste. It shows what a superficial and a narrow outlook you have on life. 338721@desicritics.org Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:28:01 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-337303 andrew... wow, were you trying to be offensive or did that crap just come naturally? 337303@desicritics.org Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:08:39 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-337300 "The people down south look at Northies as a community that places importance on show, splendor, outlook and all other things considered trivial down under. " i agree with this. for instance i visited india a few times and happened to stay in norh and south indian cities both. and i must say that girls in delhi and punjab were really beauutiful. while going to a college or university in a south indian city will make you realize that much fewer girls are attractive there. i think north indian people are aware of this and have a feeling of superiority. i mean look at south indian movies and their heroes are so ugly. not anywhere near the bollywood ones. 337300@desicritics.org Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:33 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-337281 Well said, nice read. 337281@desicritics.org Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:26:46 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-336296 I was in delhi 4 years back, my second visit up there. I wanted to eat a masala dosa in CP. I tried the occasional Southie shop and scouted for a good looking place to eat Masala dosa. Man I found one. That itself is such a joy. This masala dosa was so special. Too customized. It has paneer stuff inside it. It was a shock for me to find paneer in a masala dosa. In gurgaon just behind the huge malls, I found nice idlis served by a northie who had lived in South India and andhra sytle meals by a south indian family. Occasional good south Indian food in North India was nice. I also loved the way the rotis are served hot in dhabhas. parathas was a breakfast i never missed. I have many Northie friends and for me India is one. We all have our unique cultures and I love Indian variety. 336296@desicritics.org Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:48:50 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335925 Jammy Where are you from? 335925@desicritics.org Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:10:05 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335887 all generalisations are unfair. however, try living in chennai if u don't know tamil and have a fair skin. tamilnadu is a racist place. 335887@desicritics.org Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:16:46 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335886 all generalisations are unfair. however, try living in chennai if u don't know tamil and have a fair skin. tamilnadu is a racist place. 335886@desicritics.org Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:09:03 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335885 Anamika Yes, so when we talk about anecdotal evidence neither of us can be right. Nobody tracks data of the sort we are talking about. Everybody is talking about their personal experience, so let us leave it there as 'nobody knows for sure'. SS Please refer to my posts above, I have no comments on 'leaves'. 335885@desicritics.org Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:40:50 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335861 Guys I dunno but judging a community on the basis of how much fun you have in its weddings seems a little strange to me. Sure you may not like some of these traditions but that doesn't mean the tradition itself is 'bad'. Floor seating? Langars in gurudwaras have you squatting too, right? You may not like it, whoever you are, (neither do I, frankly. my back hurts), but I can't/won't condemn the practice, and going further, wouldn't judge the sikh community on the basis of how they serve lunch in gurudwaras. 335861@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:15:55 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335846 Chandra, seating on the floor for meals may be a "diminishing" trend for you but anecdotal evidence suggests that even in urban areas people continue the practice. Also if we are going to start talking statistics, just what is YOUR data except your own personal experience? Even if you took the number of people who own dining tables in homes it would not guarantee that the floor seating is extinct for religious and social occasions. Its a case in my own home - simply because there are too many people to fit around a dinner table when you put together a big puja. So you bundle out the dining table and put mats and mattresses as seating. Same goes for weddings, sagais, sangeets or grihapraveshes...people tend to use the seating for meals that is most convenient (and sometimes reflective of their social aspirations). But there is no evidence - statistically speaking - that floor seating is an extinct or indeed limited practice. You may well decide that in YOUR experience people do not eat on the floor, but - by the same token - having been to a fair number of religious/cultural stuff on various ends of the country, I would assert that the practice is quite common. 335846@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:35:26 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335841 also, chandra dear... go march your ass to the bangalore vidyapeeta and tell them that the banana leaf lunch served ont he floor is extinct, esp when served by shirtless brahmins... they do it all day every day... maybe they did not get your memo to cease and desist.... 335841@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:58:06 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335840 ledz.. yeah I forgot to say that I also disagree with your characterization of Tambrams... Aditi explained perfectly.... 335840@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:53:47 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335839 Deepa, Aditya, Sure, you have the right to feel the way you feel. But you are welcome to refute the points I have made, just like Chandra has done. I welcome that. 335839@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:40:31 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335837 #31 Chandra - never been to a Bengali wedding, so I don't know. Maybe they are the most happening ones in India. But aren't Sikh weddings also supposed to be a lot of fun? Also, I have to admit I have freely switched South Indian with Tambrams. In fact, other south Indians might even feel insulted being lumped with Tambrams as you say. Even within TN, there are other communities which are far more generous when it comes to festivities. And also have better manners, btw. 335837@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:29:47 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335833 Ledzius, I am sorry to say but you are way too influenced by the north and way too ignorant of the south. 335833@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:39:57 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335832 Ledz, I just thought I should say that you've managed to thoroughly disappoint me with your set of comments on this piece. 335832@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:32:36 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335824 chandra, it's funny you say "I think people assume that their personal experiences reflect population behaviour." You are commenting on something that is obviously NOT your culture then trying to say it does not exist. makes no sense. go to basaveshwarnagar in bangalore and find me a house where these kinds of functions do not happen. that whole community still lives by these behaviors. 335824@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:55:49 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335814 Everybody, I think people assume that their personal experiences reflect population behaviour. I am sorry but that is statistically incorrect. It may have been your observation (s) which is different from this being a major trend. SS I will not agree with your opinion about brahmins eating on the floors and shirtless attendants in KK and TN. I have been to numerous events and never came across any such wedding. I am not disputing your experience but I have not encountered this myself. However, this was not the case 15 years ago when this was fairly normal. Ledz 23 I am not saying that eating on the floor does not happen. In case of deaths, it is usually on the floor. My argument is eating on the floor and naked men is fairly uncommon as compared to the past. Affluent communities are less likely to have sit-ins and naked men as opposed to less affluent communities. I need to point out that I am not referring to rural KK and TN here. In Urban areas, many weddings happen either at hotels or kalyan mandaps (marriage halls). Then there is the whole issue of feeding outsiders versus feeding family members. You are likely to see more family members eating on the floor than during the main receptions. Ledz, I would request you to talk in terms of Tam Brams and not in terms of 'South Indians'. There is nothing called a south indian. There is an Indian and then there is a mallu or a tambram or a kamma etc etc North Indian lunches are fun but none can beat Bong wedding food. I have been to many North Indian weddings and man Bong weddings and I am sorry, I will choose a Bong wedding lunch/dinner anyday. Anamika I am not an expert on the BIMARU belt, so cannot say. My own sense is that eating on the floor is a diminishing trend and naked men is almost extinct (unless if it is a party attended by Ledz and SS :-)) Ledz Middle class marwaris? Easily the most boring families to visit for a party. like i said again, for good food, please visit Bongs. Ledz "One thing about N Indians in general is they take extra efforts in whatever they do as far as traditions are concerned, while the south Indian mentality is to cut corners and do it in the easiest (and boring) way as possible" I went to a UP ka shaadi a couple of years ago and they squeezed the 2 hour wedding process into exactly 45 minutes. Also, what is your definition of North Indian? Sikh Punjabis? Hindu Punjabi immigrants from pakistan? Jats? Rajasthanis or whatever we can call them? Western Upiites? etc etc etc...who is your North Indian benchmark? rgds 335814@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:31:15 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335810 Ledzius You may have gone way overboard with you "self-criticism". The south indian cuisine extends way beyond curd rice and filter coffee. The saris are may I say absolutely stunning. I would still go to Bombay and buy a silk saris only at Nalli's. I have witnessed some very nice S.Indian weddings which leads me to believe that economic status may be an important determinant. And so is personal taste really. In the US I was actually disappointed by the N.Indian style temples (essentially a big hall with all sorts of gods in no particular order and one panditji) whereas South Indian temples wowed me. And I'm not just saying this in retaliation to your comment....I'm not Tamil and have no need to defend South indians. But I would never say that North Indians cut corners. That would be passing a premature judgment. Citing lack of mehendi and embroidered lehengas at tamil weddings to demonstrate that tamilians cut corners is like saying Muslims cut corners at their weddings by not incorporating a Mangalsutra. Mehendi is an integral part of the North Indian wedding...its not just a thing they do, like make-up and saris. They have a whole "henna, haldi, sangeet" function. bengalis also use that round alta mark on the palm that you mention instead of mehendi but they also do the beautiful topor and the decorations on the face around the forehead and eyebrows. When it comes to functions, cultural events and weddings all communities have their highs and their lows. They all have their quirks and some criticism-worthy, that I agree with. But it is in poor taste ad very shallow actually to comment on how a community chooses to celebrate their weddings. If the focus is not on the clothes and mehendi it doesn't automatically mean that its a shitty wedding where corners have been cut. 335810@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:28:13 EDT http://desicritics.org/2008/06/25/002324.php#comment-335804 I guess most North Indians are too diplomatic and polite to openly disparage south Indian customs. But as a Tam Bram myself, I guess I have the right to express self-criticism here :) One thing about N Indians in general is they take extra efforts in whatever they do as far as traditions are concerned, while the south Indian mentality is to cut corners and do it in the easiest (and boring) way as possible. Take the example of applying mehndi to the hands during functions. The typical Tam bram way of doing it would be to apply a big round blob in the middle of the palm of hands, and that would be it. It is a far cry from the intricate art work done by north Indians. I grew up only being used to the Tam Bram way, and once I saw the N Indian way, I wanted to say "Wow!" and was embarrassed to witness the Tam bram style after that. Also this kind of over-simplifying things is found in other aspects too, like attire, for instance. Both the saree and the veshti are just pieces of cloth with essentially no tailoring. Contrast this with ghagra choli or even salwar kameezes. N Indian women plan their weddings in much greater detail than traditional south Indian women. And the weddings are much more fun too. These are perhaps some of the reasons why Tam Bram culture has never really moved beyond the cliches of Kancheepuram sarees, thayir saadam (curd rice), and filter coffee. 335804@desicritics.org Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:53:55 EDT