Desicritics Comments on The Astrologer, Pushan and Other Marriage Tales

Comment by Sanjay G

Sun, 11 May 2008 09:29:48 EDT

@Sandhya:There was no I don't what to do with my life please tell me kind of ending. I already made my decision at the end and I stand by it. The "I will not take dowry" decision? if yes, congratulations and welcome to the club! Millions of Indians have already been there since the 1950s and 60s. Most of us have also evolved to the point where we can tell the difference between rejecting dowry demands versus giving to the woman what is rightfully hers. Another thing, why would I live my life based on your advice? I never asked anyone for advice in the post. I found the way on my own at the end. I gave you no advice, merely options - the rest is totally up to you. However, for some unknown reason it looks like you're more interested in creating straw men with which to whip yourself up. By belittling and condescending people, by judging and mocking them, it speaks far more of the kind of person you are rather than the kind of person I am. From your opening para itself: "I picked it up to hear the thundering voice of the South Indian Amma bellow" A textbook example of belittling, condescending judging and mocking, don't you think? nothing like setting the tone right from the first line!

Comment by smallsquirrel

Sun, 11 May 2008 08:44:24 EDT

um, there was nothing hasty about them and we all jumped to the same conclusion. you're not a nice person, sanjay. sandhya... good you've ignored him. but I will say that when you post here, it matters not if you specifically ask for advice or not. the act of posting then opens you up for whatever comes. I should know.... go read some of the reactions to my posts here.

Comment by Sanjay G

Sun, 11 May 2008 07:34:06 EDT

@smallsquirrel: well sanjay maybe if you said it like that in the first place instead of the totally ridiculous tone you took I'm not responsible for your mis-perceptions and failures of understanding. If something is unclear with my comments, ask. Do not jump to hasty conclusions.

Comment by Deepa Krishnan

Sun, 11 May 2008 01:13:27 EDT

Sandhya - nice! Pushan is a Rig Vedic God, and just one among the many gods from the Rig Veda that we've lost over the centuries. The biggest dethronement was Indra of course, he was really numero uno, and he's gone from our temples, supplanted by other Gods. Remember the story from Krishna where there's a conflict between Krishna and Indra - the whole Govardhan episode, when the cowherds wanted to worship Indra, and Krishna said no? That's a little piece of history in my view, a transition point where the Yadavas tried to popularise Krishna as being more powerful than the traditional numero uno. Just conjecture, of course. We've lost many other powerful Rig Vedic gods too, Surya, and Varuna, and Savitri, and Ushas - and most of all, we've lost Agni. You don't see these Gods - who once ruled the Vedic world - in major temples. The only places where these gods appear is in the mantras for age-old rituals and sacrifices, because those still continue in Rig Vedic tradition. Another interesting Rig Vedic god is Rudra - he continues, but only because he has morphed into Siva. The Indian religions are not static. The Gods come and go and morph in fascinating ways. - Deepa

Comment by Sandhya

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:47:40 EDT

Sanjay, Never anywhere in the entire article have I asked you or anyone for advice. The whole blog post was about me observing certain issues and then at the end deciding to make a certain change that would be better for society. I had already decided what I want to do-it's quite clearly put there. There was no I don't what to do with my life please tell me kind of ending. I already made my decision at the end and I stand by it. Another thing, why would I live my life based on your advice? I never asked anyone for advice in the post. I found the way on my own at the end. It is not I who was being presumptuous, it is you. Live your life the way you want to, don't tell people on how to live theirs. If you do not believe that a pebble can make a ripple, that one person can make a change however little it is- then that's your belief system.Do not impose it on others. I said it before, I'll say it again, I do not believe in your beliefs. By belittling and condescending people, by judging and mocking them, it speaks far more of the kind of person you are rather than the kind of person I am. I wrote about something i observed and of a decision I made in my life. Read it carefully-I am not stuck and I am certainly in control of my life!People who aren't cannot make decisions.I did.But of course, how would you get that?you are too busy judging me to read my post properly. You did not even get the essence of the blog post- the extent of your judgment is amazing. Your comments make a personal attack on my character and the basis is false because I already made my decision on the way I want to live my life at the end of my blog post. You do not or for that matter no human being in this world has the right to give lectures to any another person on how they should live their life. first make yourself perfect before you tell someone how to live their life. Also, if anything needs to be "controlled" it is your need to give unwarranted advice. Remember, it's ok to talk structurally about the post but telling me what to do, how to live my life, making personal judgments about me saying I have no control, is WAY over the line. You have no authority to do that. I have every right to feel the way I want to, to make the decisions I want to and to live life the way I want to.everybody does.if you do not agree with that , that's your problem not mine. you have automatically assumed that you know how to live life and what decision one must take. nothing can be further from the truth. I NEVER ASKED ANYBODY FOR ADVICE. READ THE POST CAREFULLY. I ALREADY MADE MY DECISION AT THE END OF THE BLOG ON HOW I WANT TO LIVE MY LIFE AND AM VERY HAPPY WITH IT. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE BLOG. DON'T MAKE PERSONAL CHARACTER JUDGMENTS. YOU ARE NOT PERFECT YOURSELF SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHERS. NO ONE IN THIS WORLD HAS THE RIGHT TO DO SO AND IN THIS CASE IT WAS NOT EVEN ASKED FOR. I will not address your comments again as I think were unwarranted, completely over the line and based on an incorrect understanding of my blog.It would mean giving you and your beliefs and thoughts importance. They do not deserve that importance.

Comment by smallsquirrel

Sat, 10 May 2008 21:01:56 EDT

well sanjay maybe if you said it like that in the first place instead of the totally ridiculous tone you took... and seem to always take. and you might wanna be careful throwing about the term presumptuous given your track record here. quite funny you're against reflection since you seem to spend a lot of time going on about something or the other.. yet I do not read about you in the papers changing the world. for all you know this woman does plenty in her life and is stuck on this one issue. we all have issues we get stuck on.

Comment by Sanjay G

Sat, 10 May 2008 19:51:47 EDT

Thanks ss, this is not about me but the article. All I did was to reinforce Sandhya's own advice to herself i.e. "control what is in my hands.". History records that Hindus legitimized as many as eight types of marriages. This includes the arranged version but without the dowry; the marriage for love, except that this refers to the true love-at-first-sight situation, not today's version of "for love" which is perhaps better described as self-arranged; there is even provision for marriage by abduction with no stipulation as to which gender must play the role of the abductor. There is plenty of scope, therefore, for Sandhya to Just Do It. If one can't even control one's own life, thinking about "changing society" is perhaps a tad presumptuous.

Comment by Ruvy

Sat, 10 May 2008 15:51:03 EDT

- I can control what is in my hands. I too will lead by example. Sandhya, Stick with those words as your guide for daily living. In the end, you will be a good woman, a good wife, a good mother, and a powerful person, looked up to and highly respected, as the astrologer foretold.... The world has great need of those who lead by example by controlling what is in their hands.

Comment by temporal

Sat, 10 May 2008 15:41:29 EDT

ss: nice to see you in form ;)

Comment by smallsquirrel

Sat, 10 May 2008 15:37:53 EDT

sanjay must ytou always be such a wet blanket? you never have a single nice thing to say. go pee on someone else's parade... or better yet, go to therapy and figure out what makes you such a grouchy person. and I suppose that just this morning you changed the world? BAH!' I liked this. reminded me of my own go-round int he south indian marriage circuit, as it were. the sub-registrar's office we went to was insane. they actually refused to issue the license until we brought back pedas.

Comment by Sandhya

Sat, 10 May 2008 11:14:15 EDT

Deepti- Thank you. Sanjay- Thanks for your opinion. I do not agree with it nor your opinion on what i should do with my life.

Comment by Sanjay G

Sat, 10 May 2008 09:06:55 EDT

I do not know if I can change society but I know one thing for sure - I can control what is in my hands. Indeed. Indian tradition holds that it takes a person with a rare combination of multiple abilities to be able to change society. One thing is for sure - simply writing about doesn't quite cut it. Instead of using this space as a pedestrian propaganda piece against the evils of "arranged marriages", why not simply get married "for love" and get it over with?

Comment by Deepti Lamba

Sat, 10 May 2008 01:26:07 EDT

Sadhya, you have yet to meet people who will tell you that dowry deaths are a lie. Wait and watch they will come but I thoroughly enjoyed the first half and became kind of grim by the second half which was also needed. Its a very well written post. Thanks for posting.