Desicritics Comments on Why Neither India nor Pakistan Should Rely on America: Part I - Who Really Runs America?

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 22:39:24 EDT

Aaman, Not a problem. I totally understand. With so many threads and comments, it is not an easy task to keep on top of things. Trust me, take my word for it, I'm not just saying this to make you or anyone feel better. Best wishes, CS

Comment by Aaman

Mon, 5 May 2008 21:18:13 EDT

P.S. the 'sign-off' has been edited and will be in future. My apologies for missing the connotations.

Comment by Aaman

Mon, 5 May 2008 21:15:33 EDT

All #58 has, post-editing, is an invitation to check out other sites in BC - how is that hate speech? At the risk of repeating myself, critique the message - applying labels is not good enough. we're not courting controversy, and not promoting hate speech, individual or collective, but we're not stifling anyone. commonsense, a section of the thread was cleared out, for consistency, even milder comments in the middle have got wiped,

Comment by Anamika

Mon, 5 May 2008 18:57:00 EDT

DC Editors: I realise this is a humble desi begging for intellectual alms from the GREAT DC EDITORS but could you PLEASE explain WHY #58 is acceptable? A(nd yes PLEASE BAN ME if you feel necesary!) SO the DC policy is now to provide links to hate-speech rather than carrying it? A bit of a dismal compromise don't you think? Do I get to sign off from "ethnically cleansed/liberated" lands? Or is that particular privilege denied to desis?

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 18:39:32 EDT

Aaman: "keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site." I suppose I get it! "personal mudslinging and hatred off the site" while group mudsingling/hatred is just fine? Quite in tune with the neo-liberal worship of the individual. But seriously, nothing I wrote that was edited can be construted as "hatred" even though I refused to be bullied by Ruvy. The americanism again, "Oh Well!!". If courting controversy is what works for this site, ""whatever""!

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 18:34:25 EDT

Aaman: ""keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site."" I have not a clue as to why my comments in response to Ruvy's sarcasm, were edited! Surely, I have never ever, intentionally or unintentionally promoted hatred of any particular group or community. This is not what we can say of Ruvy. To deploy an Americanism "Oh, Well!".

Comment by Anamika

Mon, 5 May 2008 18:27:36 EDT

Aaman: "You're welcome to criticize the site and its editors as much as you want, we hope we learn from the criticism." Is that why the comments have been deleted? Or is it really about hate speech? Sorry Aaman, am calling it quits until the pro-Zionist genocidal propaganda you choose to invite on to DC gets a little too out of hand (and others on the board choose to remain silent!). I ENJOY reading the stuff on DC and really felt there was a community of which I formed a part. But I feel sickened by the idea that I ever felt part of a community that excuses/invites/tolerates hate speech as has been the case here. I am also shocked/saddened to realise that DC - for all its "big tent" logic - choose to ignore the reality of those of us who live/work in Europe (as well as the sensitivities of those of us who consider genocide horrible EVEN as it extends past the Holocaust) and thus have to abide by criminal laws regarding hate speech. But I suppose as long as the "chosen" people get their say it hardly matters if desis are fettered from response. The editorial policy has revealed as much! Cheers A

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 10:51:04 EDT

Ruvy: ""If your verbal diarrhea in speaking matches your verbal diarrhea in writing, your audience will be soundly asleep whatever your subject."" Besides, non-medicinal remedies for insomnia are highly undervalued. Thanks for this tip, in case I lose my job!

Comment by Ruvy

Mon, 5 May 2008 09:42:58 EDT

[EDITED FOR CONSISTENCY] I'll let Aaman defend Blog Critics Magazine, [ED] In the mean-time go look up at the upper left hand quadrant of the page, just under the "My Yahoo!" and "Search with Google" boxes. It says "Part of the BLOGCRITICS Network." There, in addition to DC, you see Dawn Olsen's Glosslip, and Eric Berlin's On-Line Media Cultist portal and more. you really ought to explore the place. It can be awful interesting.

Comment by Aaman

Mon, 5 May 2008 09:16:23 EDT

The comments above have been deleted/edited as irrelevant - keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site. You're welcome to criticize the site and its editors as much as you want, we hope we learn from the criticism. As I said in a private mail, we are not in the quest for traffic or pageranks or any such tawdry thing. In fact, the traffic logs will show you that politics articles typically get the least hits, sports and entertainment do far better, so if we were, we'd be writing about a lot more than what we do. At the same time, we don't restrict our authors as long as the content is verifiable and well-written. Comments are a gray area, always, and what is correct in one context, may be disallowed in another. We have an all-volunteer editorial group, so we might miss stuff that violates policy, but generally address it if brought to our attention. We are open to all opinions, though, and will not shut up a pro-Israeli writer or even a pro-Arab writer. We are truly a big tent, and there is no overt or covert bias to any side. This is not a site for desis alone, though, and all perspectives are welcome, so you're invited to address any imbalances yourself, or keep authors on the straight and narrow through comments, as bandwidth might allow.

Comment by Anamika

Mon, 5 May 2008 08:40:10 EDT

Ruvy: Are your mates at blogcritics genocidal fanatics [EDITED]? Will they only "slap down" anybody who counters your hate propaganda and/or protests your signing off from "liberated Samaria" or will that courtesy be extended to neo-Nazis signing off from "a liberated Germany Poland/Czech/Hungary/Austria too after killing off "6 million Jews"? I suspect that ethnic cleansing is only problematic for your friends at blogcritics when it happens against Jews. So you may be in better company out there than here amongst us fractious desis! As re me going to reading your bilge at blogcritics: just as I don't going to neo-Nazi sites, I ALSO don't bother with Islamophobic, racist ones like the one where you preach. Frankly I would be happy not to read your hate-filled diatribes on DC either, but thats just too much to wish for - last time you promised to leave, you came right back. But then I suppose promises made by god's chosen people aren't to be taken at face value - just look at the way you ethnically cleansed Samaria but call it liberation. Go preach your hate elsewhere where other fanatics will lap it up. [EDITED] DC Editors: I assume its NOW okay for neo-Nazis to sign off from "liberated Germany"? Or for fanatic janjawids to sign off from other "liberated" lands. Has someone email Modi's office yet - I believe there are "liberated lands" in Gujarat too!

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 08:20:41 EDT

Ruvy: ""If your verbal diarrhea in speaking matches your verbal diarrhea in writing, your audience will be soundly asleep whatever your subject."" Your immediate response aptly demonstrates this point. If you can write in your sleep, wonder what you can accomplish when you are in complete possession of your senses! (as the resident thekedaar of, not just Judaica but the English language too, please feel free to edit any grammatical mistakes and awkward expressions)

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 08:08:30 EDT

Ruvy: ""One of the talents of being a troll is brevity and cutting wit. You've neither."" Reminds me of a conversation a few years ago. A: "He's either a fascist or a fool"!! B: "Neither. He's both!!""

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 08:05:27 EDT

Ruvy: ""A hint for you; whatever you do, don't waste your efforts at public speaking beyond teaching"" Sorry, but a hint works best for those who have brains like you, not for dim-wits like me. Could you expand a bit on what you mean? Ruvy: ""If your verbal diarrhea in speaking matches your verbal diarrhea in writing, your audience will be soundly asleep whatever your subject."" Perhaps! But as others have no doubt noticed too, my comments usually leave you foaming and frothing. Or is that due to the sleepy stupor induced by my writing?

Comment by Ruvy

Mon, 5 May 2008 07:37:23 EDT

"commonsense": Yes indeed, one of my main goals, quite possibly the only goal, in life is to discredit you. So you've crawled out of the woodwork to display yourself a a mere troll. A pathetic sight indeed. One of the talents of being a troll is brevity and cutting wit. You've neither. A hint for you; whatever you do, don't waste your efforts at public speaking beyond teaching. If your verbal diarrhea in speaking matches your verbal diarrhea in writing, your audience will be soundly asleep whatever your subject.

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 07:10:10 EDT

Ruvy:: ""Anamika and "commonsense" won't let anybody live if they even say so much as "thank you" for anything I write here. Note how Man Singh and you have been jumped all over. And lately, the resident editors are acceding more and more to their whining. So there is a good chance that what I write here will be edited out as "blathering" or "irrelevant"."" Playing the victim usually works, but not here where most can see thru the barely hidden charade and agenda. Yes indeed, one of my main goals, quite possibly the only goal, in life is to discredit you. Not a tough job either, since you do such a great job of discrediting yourself all the time (speaking with God, invoking the Torah to prove a historical point etc.).

Comment by commonsense

Mon, 5 May 2008 06:45:16 EDT

Ruvy: ""Obviously, protesting is a relatively empty gesture. But what I can do is write the second two articles of this series at Blog Critics, and let Anamika and "commonsense" go there and comment - and then watch as they get slapped down by others reading Blog Critics."' Obviously, self-advertising (z or s?) is not quite against the rules....as for getting slapped down, unlike you, i can handle it.

Comment by Ruvy

Mon, 5 May 2008 03:58:25 EDT

Sorry for misspelling your name, Sridhar. It was not intentional. Ruvy

Comment by Ruvy

Mon, 5 May 2008 03:55:07 EDT

Sridar, Thank you for the kind words. The self appointed censors of political correctness on this site, Anamika and "commonsense" won't let anybody live if they even say so much as "thank you" for anything I write here. Note how Man Singh and you have been jumped all over. And lately, the resident editors are acceding more and more to their whining. So there is a good chance that what I write here will be edited out as "blathering" or "irrelevant". If I so much argue the point here, than I'm censored out. Well, frankly I'm damned sick of the bullshit, and via this comment, and an accompanying e-mail, I'm formally protesting this activity as being violative of the comments policy at this site. Obviously, protesting is a relatively empty gesture. But what I can do is write the second two articles of this series at Blog Critics, and let Anamika and "commonsense" go there and comment - and then watch as they get slapped down by others reading Blog Critics. Blessings from liberated Samaria, Reuven

Comment by Chandra

Sun, 4 May 2008 11:58:18 EDT

Sridhar Please demonstrate some intelligence when responding to others comments. I said this "This post sounds like one of the major conspiracy theories that are posted on youtube these days" To which you responded by saying..... "Are you saying a world view shaped by uncritically assimilating the news given out by CNN, Reader's Digest, Time, and Newsweek is far superior to youtube?" Now, where did i suggest that something on youtube is untrue or only something on CNN or mainstream channels is true? Kucch bhi...

Comment by commonsense

Sun, 4 May 2008 08:17:47 EDT

Sridhar, the quote in question was deleted from the original post by Ruvy, but here it is from Anamika # 22: "I have a premonition that will not leave me. The State of Israel will be destroyed; and a holocaust of destruction will be upon all of YOU. But a Jewish entity will survive here and arise in triumph upon the ashes of your world. Have a good Sabbath, Blessings from Liberated Samaria, Reuven" Sridhar, when the context is kept in mind, and when veterans who have followed Ruvy's antics for quite a while, it is clear that the article above has little to do with American foreign policy but everything to do with another quite different agenda. Nothing wrong with that, since anybody can write anything. What is wrong of course, is Ruvy claiming victimhood, lying about "anti-semimtism" by equating it with any critique of the worst form of racism spouted by Rabbi Kahane, and then spouting hate speech after he is done. Of course, Ruvy gladly joins in some critiques of Israeli govt. policies, because his rants are derived from Rabbi Kahane whom he reveres as prophet of sorts. And as everyone knows, Rabbi Kahane represents the racist lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe even among the worst of the ethnic cleansers in Israel. And when he runs into obstacles via arguments, he foams, froths, quotes the Torah as the fount of truth for the entire world, issues threats, disappears for a while and then re-surfaces with a modicum of rationality, only to repeat the same performance all over again. And yes, he does appear to be invited (or was in the past) to detect any anti-semitism on DC! The irony, the irony!!

Comment by Anamika

Sun, 4 May 2008 06:04:57 EDT

Sridhar - The issue of HATE speech is a serious one although I realise that most desis have quite flexible views on this so I suggest you scroll up and read the context of that comment. My comment was aimed at #44 which the editors deleted but its meaning can be found in some version in my response. I shall pose some questions to you: 1) If a Modi goon signed off from some village that had been "ethnically cleansed" by saying "liberated Vadodara/Godhra/Gujarat" etc, would it be acceptable? 2) If a jihadi signed off a comment on how divine retribution shall fall on the nonbelievers (ie non-chosen people) saying "liberated Kashmir" would it be acceptable? 3) OR lets get REALLY specific: if a neo-Nazi speaking of the destruction of the European Jewry signed off from Poland saying "liberated Poland", would you jump to his/her defence quite with as much alacrity? So why is it okay for a violent settler/fanatic to speak of a "liberated Samaria." Do I need to spell out HOW Samaria has been "liberated?" Although of course given that for some nutters on DC, as long as it is Muslims who are raped/tortured/killed and expelled, its okay! And yes, I DID read the piece in its entirety. Mostly because the title appeared to voice a view that is shared by MOST political and economic analysts in India and Pakistan, regardless of the strategic imperatives that ensure that we engage with America. Unfortunately, other than a litany of historical wrongs strung together about Israel/Holocaust/Jews and presented as evidence of US's lack of reliability, there was very little of value to desis in the piece. Moreover the author is working off the assumption that US is considered reliable (at any point in history) by Indians or Pakistanis, or that the subcontinent is unaware of that nation's unreliability (either choice shows at best an extreme ignorance of the area that the writer is choosing to address or at worst, an implicit hubris). Furthermore, there is very little beyond fuzzy conspiracy theories: (see his lament on how the American big business invested all over the world, hence had little interest in saving the jewry. Of course if someone were to point out that "jewish big businesses" were also investing and profiting from these global investments and were inextricable part of this horrible "big business" the response from our man in Jerusalem would be shrill screams of "anti-Semitism" (complete with email warnings from the editorial board). There is also a clear lack of interest on part of the author in acknowleding or noting the subcontinent's experience with the US over the past 60 years that have taught the region ample lessons about it. Yet beyond the title, there is little attempt or interest in addressing the specificities of the subcontinental experience. The piece indeed is nothing more than far right piece of propaganda masquerading (in less than a fig leaf) as of interest to the subcontinent! Given the author's one-point agenda, this piece ALSO has little to do with subcontinent. THAT particular one-point agenda has been exposed over and over again on this site and the author's own words: an extreme Kahane-inspired, settler-colonialist vision of Palestine-Israel and the world. Btw, just wondering: given your article on Tibet, do you believe that this Zionist "settler-colony" has also gone a long way in liberating the backward, suffering natives of Palestine? After all, they did live in miserable circumstances prior to the naqba. You may have evidence that colonisation has been good for them. Look forward to the response.

Comment by sridhar

Sun, 4 May 2008 02:37:32 EDT

Anamika, 'I wondered how long before Mullah Ruvy's not-so-hidden agenda would make an appearance. And here.' You appear to read the first line of the article and the last last line before directing your misdirected firepower on Ruvy. Aren't you contributing to hate speech yourself without understanding the author's viewpoint.

Comment by sridhar

Sun, 4 May 2008 02:21:49 EDT

Dear Ruvy, Thanks for writing this piece. Looking forward to the other parts in the same series.

Comment by sridhar

Sun, 4 May 2008 01:51:51 EDT

Chandra, Ref-comment 19. 'In fact, the US is of no consequence to 90% of Indians.' But 90% of Indians do not have much say in their government. The ruling elites have a comprador mind set, which believes that what is good for Uncle Sam is good for India. The nuclear deal which the Congress party wanted to push had clauses that tied India to foreign US foreign policy. Even the BJP does not different views from the congress party even though they are in opposition. The policies of Bush, which were condemned in US, Europe and other parts of the world had a popular rating among the outsourced middle classes in India. So I won't be as unconcerned as you are about Ruvy's article-'Who runs America?' Btw- your comment 'This post sounds like one of the major conspiracy theories that are posted on youtube these days.' Interesting. Are you saying a world view shaped by uncritically assimilating the news given out by CNN, Reader's Digest, Time, and Newsweek is far superior to youtube?