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Why Neither India nor Pakistan Should Rely on America: Part I - Who Really Runs America?
Ruvy
This series of articles is written as an object lesson for you as to why you cannot trust the United States government as any kind of partner. This is as true for Pakistanis as it is for Indians, Sri Lankans, Nepalis, Bangladeshis or any other residents of the Indian sub-continent.
The series has three parts.
This article examines how the United States got to the apex it did. The second uses Israel as an example of American duplicity regarding its supposed "friends" or "allies". The third views what might have happened and how the world would be different if indeed the United States supported the State of Israel as one-sidedly as so many charge.
These articles is not written in an attempt to "inform" you of events in Israel, the Levantine or the Arab world. Unless you have relatives or business interests here, you probably have no reason to care.
The point of this series is to allow you to apply the sad lesson we provide of how a great power double-crosses a small one. There are many such examples of this, but I can speak as a resident of the victim. Indeed, not only Jews in Israel have been victims of this double-cross, but Arabs as well.
Before continuing further, I want to make clear several things. First; I live in Israel, in Samaria to be precise. While I reside in Israel. I am not a Zionist. The word "Zionism" was originally invented by English Christian theologians in the 17th Century; as a Jewish idea, it was originally expounded upon by rabbis from Serbia and Russia in the early 19th Century (though not called by this name), and was made palpable and real by secular Jews who wanted little to do with ritual, religion, or even with G-d. The creation of Zionism, the State of Israel, has been a success until recent years. The essential goal of Zionism, bringing the majority of Jews in the world back to the homeland, has nearly been completed. It is evident to anyone who lives here that the closer we come to that basic goal, the weaker the movement to achieve it becomes, and the weaker the apotheosis of Zionist ideology, the State, becomes as well.
Second; even though I live in Israel, I was born and raised in the United States and lived there for several decades before coming home to Israel. My field of study was political science and public administration, and I added to these subjects comparative government and linguistics. In addition, I was active in politics in the United States in both major political parties. This gave me a good grasp of the American political system and how it evolved.
Finally; I'm not slamming the people who inhabit the United States, the average folks known as Joe Sixpack. Americans, by and large, are a decent, generous and kind people, even if they are too Amero-centered for their own good. Perhaps they are too naïve at times. But the decency of the average American should never ever be in question.
The government of the United States, now in the hands of an oil and banking establishment for some eight decades, is a very different story. In this article, when talking about "America", I'm not talking about her decent inhabitants; I'm talking about her evil régime.
One last point. Credit for much of what you see in this article goes to Joel Bainerman, an Israeli investigative journalist, economist and publisher. My errors in relaying the data he has taught me and others is my responsibility alone.
And now to business.
The first three words of the American Federal Constitution of 1787 are "We the People" and if you ask most Americans, "who runs America?" that is the most likely answer you will get. The people.
If it were only true.
It isn't. It probably never was.
First of all, the United States were not designed to be a democracy at all, but a federation of states with a republican form of government. While the word "republic" comes from the Latin rex publica (one sees the root in the Russian word respublik) meaning "the people rule", and in spite of the fact that modern Greece is called Ελληνική Δημοκρατία ('Ellinikí Dhimokratía) which is translated as "the Hellenic Republic", the two words "democracy" and "republic" do not have the precise same meaning in English.
A republic connotes a form of government which is not monarchical in nature. Thus, the Republic of Florence, where Niccolo Machiavelli was a mid-level bureaucrat, was not a state where the average Florentine had a real voice in government. Only a small class of Florentines had any voice at all, and they ruled the country.
But the Principality of Florence, which succeeded the Republic upon its fall, was a monarchy, with the son supposedly succeeding the father. Machiavelli's book, De Principatus, "The Prince", was in essence, his curriculum vitae submitted to the man who had exiled him to his estate after overthrowing the republic. While the book has long outlasted the la famiglia Medici that Machiavelli was trying to impress, Machiavelli did not get his job back.
When first established in 1776, the various states restricted voting to white males only, usually only Christians who owned property. So voting was restricted somewhat for several decades. For all of this, the states that comprised the United States did move closer towards popular rule, and the American republic did edge towards democracy in the 1800's.
But a business oligarchy took the country over after its civil war in 1865, and controlled its industrialization. As the 19th Century progressed to a close, the rich men who built huge industries out of the steel plants of the Midwest, the railways, the ships, the meat packing plants and the like realized that competition was not "rational", so they bought each other out, building huge monopolies known in America as "trusts" and "rationalizing" the industries they controlled. This is the kind of stuff most American kids skip over in school, because it is so damnably boring, but it is precisely these events in America that provided the model for the concentration of wealth in the succeeding decades.
What American teachers tend to focus on is not the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, but the efforts of the American government to combat that concentration of wealth, known as "trust busting". To make a long story short, American businessmen felt stymied in building monopolies in the States and looked out at the wide world instead, and started investing money in it in the early 1900's.
They invested all over the world; Germany, Turkey, Russia, France, as well as China, Cuba and Latin America. And when a world war broke out in 1914, the profits of many firms went right down the tubes.
This had consequences. One consequence was that rich American businessmen determined that they would not be burned again in another world war. They examined the Treaty of Versailles that crippled post-war Germany, the Russian Revolution, and the way people were buying Henry Ford's affordable "Model T" and made their moves.
Their first presumption was that there would be a rematch between Germany and Britain or the United States. They set up a triumvirate of banks - one was the Thyssen Bank in Germany, the second was the Union Bank in New York, and the third was a bank in the Netherlands. The idea was that the Netherlands would probably be neutral in this coming war, and that Germany and America would be on opposite sides. That is what had happened in the first war, and so they expected the pattern would hold.
If the Germans won this second world war, then the rich businessmen would be compensated for their losses in America through the Thyssen bank "looting" the assets of the Union Bank (and presumably others). If the Americans won the second world war, the rich businessmen would be compensated through the Union Bank "looting" the assets of the Thyssen Bank. In either case, the Dutch bank was supposed to e the intermediary.
It didn't exactly work that way, but these rich businessmen had foresight.
They also had the brains to make sure that they would have some level of control over who ran the governments. In America, they set up a "Council on Foreign Relations" to infiltrate the State, War, Navy and Commerce departments of the American government with their employees. The idea was to provide a pool of "respectable" professors and administrative types who would watch over their interests. They did the same thing in the United Kingdom. These councils still exist today, and in either the United Kingdom or the United States, if you do not have ties to the respective councils, you get nowhere fast. Note how Ron Paul was locked out of the national debate before McCain sewed up the nomination.
Investing in overseas political control was a bit trickier.
One act of these businessmen was to invest in the Soviet Union in an attempt to bring it to stability. This might have been their first act, persuading Lenin to introduce the New Economic Plan (NEP) in the early twenties; but Lenin had the temerity to die, and his successor, Joe Stalin, was a xenophobe.
The next move was to try and find someone who could be controlled in the Weimar Republic that had succeeded the German Empire. These businessmen found an ambitious young man originally from Austria, and they invested in him, building him a fancy house. This turned out to be a better investment - Adolf Hitler eventually became Reichskanzler in 1933, and continued his business ties with his American investors, attempting to use them to get some foothold in the American economy. And as these businessmen had foreseen, there was another world war, and they made sure that they were compensated for their German investments through the Dulles brothers, one of whom was an attorney on the Allied War Compensation Board set up after the war.
The final big move was to invest in a source of fuel for the "Model T" and its successors, and to lay the groundwork for a continuing fortune. This came by investing some money in the wastes of Arabia, arming the ibn Saud clan to the teeth, and supporting them as they stole Makka and Medina from the Hashemi family, its traditional guardians for centuries. The Hashemi family had to be satisfied with emirates in Mesopotamia and "Transjordan"- the eastern two thirds of the territory the British had allotted for a Jewish national home. The money wasn't a gift to the ibn Sauds. It was a deal. American and British oil companies got to control the oil under the ground. The ibn Sauds - now "Saudis" - got the sand. At least that's how it looked in the 1920's.
Thus is was that bit by bit, the oil and banking companies came to dominate America. One of the key parts of winning their dominion over America came from getting rid of trolley cars and replacing them with buses; getting rid of trains, and replacing them with trucks. These two moves guaranteed the dominion of oil over all other fuels. Gradually, the American State Department became the pliable tool of American corporations. Much of the Japanese drive for empire was a drive to control oil, and the same was true for the Germans. Americans never thought of using alcohol to fuel tanks, as did the Germans. They never had to.
With the Germans and Japanese broken and defeated by August 1945, the American oil and banking establishment bestrode the world like a colossus. And Americans, living the best lives that could be imagined at the time, never even dreamt that their country and that their democracy had been stolen from them.
Ruvy, born in New York, moved to Minnesota where he managed a Burger King and wrote stories. In addition to writing for 
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Aaman
URL
April 29, 2008
10:29 AM
Awaiting the subsequent parts, have you read Carroll Quigley's books, Ruvy?
Ruvy
April 29, 2008
12:42 PM
Carroll Quigley's books are hard to get hold of here, Aaman. A lot of what I talk about here was gleaned from Root & Branch lectures by Joel Bainerman, and evidently he took a hard look at Quigley. In addition, another of my sources was, as was Quigley, part of the quiet aristocracy that really runs the United States. When he converted to Judaism, he became one of the wogs (see below).
The members of this aristocracy are a really cold-blooded bunch of bastards with every arrogant pretension that they alone have the right to rule the States (and by extension, the world) and that all the rest of the Americans (and by extension, everybody on the planet) are just wogs.
Guido
April 29, 2008
01:51 PM
The rise and fall of America in three easy lessons.
I can guess what the remaining trilogy will contain if it's anything like the first installment. And I've already seen enough of your previous posts to make my own conclusions concerning just how unbiased your "object lesson" will be.
I invite you to help educate "Joe Sixpack" by concurrently posting your lectures at any of the credible moderate US political blogs.
No doubt you will present a balanced critique highlighting both sides of the "evil régime".
Ciao, Guido
Aaman
URL
April 29, 2008
02:03 PM
Ruvy, here are Quigley's key books for your reading pleasure:
Tragedy and Hope, The Anglo-American Establishment, and The Evolution of Civilizations
Guido, you're welcome to write counter-examples/articles - mail me to be set up with an ID.
Ruvy
April 29, 2008
03:37 PM
Guido,
The rise and fall of America in three easy lessons is not what this series is about. Try re-reading the first few paragraphs again.
If you do want to get an idea of how I view the particular subject of the rise and fall of America, you are welcome to read this article at Blogcritics Magazine.
Ciao,
Ruvy
Ruvy
April 29, 2008
03:39 PM
Aaman,
Thank you for the links.
blokesablogin
April 29, 2008
03:53 PM
Ruvy- I agree. I watched this interesting documentary that talks about how modern Israel came to be established. It was fascinating to see the "diplomacy" of UK and USA to "park" the jews in the "promised land" as neither wanted millions of immigrants into their lands.
In India, we have an old story of the 2 monkeys and the cat. It goes that a monkey espied a piece of bread when at the same time another snapped it up. The two argue as to who gets it. A cat comes by to resolve the dispute and ends up eating the entire bread! Under the guise of "brokering" deals, the US has subsidized its "lifestyle" at the expense of the rest of the world. That scenario is soon changing.
As you mentioned, the common "Joe sixpack" is good and hardworking and is already working on hoeing his yard and growing vegetables! That indomitable spirit is something I admire.
Ruvy
April 29, 2008
05:16 PM
Meenakshi,
Thank you for the kind words.
Yeah, nobody wanted the Jews in the DP (displaced persons) camps after WWII. My big question is why, if India had to try to absorb displaced Hindus, and Pakistan had to absorb displaced Moslems, and Poland had to absorb displaced Poles, and Israel had to absorb displaced Jews - why do the Arabs get a free pass in not having to absorb displaced Arabs? Are Arab countries poorer than India that they can't accomplish the task and do the right thing by their so-called brothers? AFTER SIXTY YEARS??
The people who call us Nazis and inhuman have all sorts of bullshit excuses and analyses - and G-d only knows they'll descant upon my morality at the drop of a pin. BUT THEY NEVER HAVE ANY ANSWERS TO SIMPLE QUESTIONS LIKE THESE!
I went shopping in Jerusalem (primarily for catfood, but us humans also get to eat as well....) and got a taste of the food shortages referred to in other articles that keep popping up talking about them and the food riots that seem to accompany them.
The aisle that has rice, usually overflowing with packages of Persian or Indian rice of various kinds, was nearly empty. There are usually deals on pasta, offering the store brand for about NIS 3.00 (about $.85) a package. There were no deals - there was no store brand spaghetti or pasta. All the spaghetti was at least NIS 6.00 (about $1.70) a package. Other grains were not in abundance either. The last time I had bought olive oil, the price for 750 ml had soared to NIS 42.00 (almost $12) from NIS 29 ($8.25). The official inflation rate here is about .2% monthly, the last time I looked.
Uh huh....
It's late in Israel. Tomorrow, I have to get to Jerusalem (again) to stand guard at Mt. Herzl for the ceremony commemorating the fall of the Warsaw Ghetto. It should be interesting.
Blessings from Samaria,
Reuven
commonsense
April 29, 2008
08:05 PM
Relieved to know that our friend Ruvy is not totally against Joe Sixpacks...umm, that would be me...(three dots right?)
Ms. Anona
April 30, 2008
02:26 AM
Hmmm, commonsense, Camry or Ford pickup? Hunting or hiking? NO, you're not a redneck, just a good old fashioned coconut, as far as I know.
Now I don't have to look farther than my own family to comment on this, and I will condemn the Joe Sixpacks out there, they are not so innocent amid their luxeries. After all, their only concern is to uphold the NRA to instill their favorite pastime. Recreational ignorance in front of human lives and unification, seems calling them only naive might be letting some things slip by a little easy.
commonsense
April 30, 2008
04:47 AM
Ms anona, I took "Joe Sixpack" literally....the brew, you see....
Guido
April 30, 2008
05:54 AM
Aaman #4
Thanks for vote of confidence, but my writing skills aren't up to par with Ruvy's or the other contributors. It doesn't matter anyway. American history is full of good and bad deeds. For every wrong, I can show you a right and vise versa. We can debate it ad nauseam.
In my middle-of-the-bell-curve mind, the real issue boils down to whether you think the US is a noble entity or bent on world/self destruction...good or evil if you like. It is from here, one of these two positions that opinions and arguments are formed.
You don't have to read very far to understand the author's view; the leadership is a "cold-blooded bunch of bastards with every arrogant pretension" and the average American is "decent" but "naïve". These statements are mild compared to his previous remarks; see "Islamophobia - Organisation of Islamic Countries Report".
I choose to believe that most Americans (including the leadership) are decent people. Like most of the world population. Perhaps an overly optimistic view, so be it. But this doesn't mean I ignore criticism. We must constantly question our actions both individually and collectively. But you do so in a constructive manner that fosters improvement...not disparagingly. That only distorts the issues and takes us backward. I'm making the point that if you offer only one side of the story...just jaded criticism, then the conclusion is foregone and all efforts to "educate" are nothing more than propaganda.
My literary talents are suspect, but like the majority of my middle-aged American and Italian friends, I can normally sniff out a hidden agenda, whether it's wrapped up nicely and presented with flowers by a pandering candidate...or in Ruvy's case, served as a cold dish.
Ciao, Guido
Guido
April 30, 2008
05:56 AM
Ruvy #5,
I respect your religion and intelligent mind.
What I dislike (besides your ungratefulness) is your portrayal of "evil" America. I think you have convinced yourself that God is punishing a decadent society and now you're trying to herd others in that direction to reinforce your own position.
And please don't patronize me with that "most are decent folks" line. Save it for the young likeminded on these boards. I have witnessed your vitriol rhetoric firsthand, and you can't have it both ways.
Go ahead and peddle your biased views as an "object lesson". I'm not buying it.
Ciao, Guido
Guido
April 30, 2008
05:58 AM
Blokesablogin #7
"It was fascinating to see the "diplomacy" of UK and USA to "park" the jews in the "promised land" as neither wanted millions of immigrants into their lands."
Yes. How dare the US park anyone anywhere! They should have minded their own business and let those other countries take in displaced Jews. Let's see...I can't recall...who else was offering support post WWII?
Ciao Guido
Anamika
April 30, 2008
07:09 AM
I wondered how long before Mullah Ruvy's not-so-hidden agenda would make an appearance. And here it is:
"My big question is why, if India had to try to absorb displaced Hindus, and Pakistan had to absorb displaced Moslems, and Poland had to absorb displaced Poles, and Israel had to absorb displaced Jews - why do the Arabs get a free pass in not having to absorb displaced Arabs?"
Well, lets start with the simple fact that India and Pakistan were PARTITIONED and not CREATED from scratch as SETTLER COLONIES around the world. MOREOVER Poland CHOSE to absorb displaced Poles just as post-war Germany CHOSE to absorb ethnic Germans from NEIGHBOURING countries that expelled them. NONE of these are SETTLER COLONIES created as an imperial exercise foisted on a land half-way across the world.
MOREOVER these were not generic ARABS that were displaced but PALESTINIANS. Displaced Punjabi Muslims would not be expected to be "absorbed" by Iran! Or indeed displaced Tibetans by Thailand! Simply because hey those Punjabis were Muslims and the Burmese are Buddhists, so why shouldn't they just be "absorbed" wherever someone else choses to push them! Where is the Palestine that could absorb the displaced Palestinians? Oh, oops, that is what became the SETTLER COLONY (with lest we forget the divine personal seal of GOD).
Am waiting with bated breath for part three/four/85 of this series where god is shown to actually have chosen one specific people and how the US got it wrong. And then of course the mandatory lesson in how the US shall "pay for its sins" against oops, the chosen people again! Yep...bated breath indeed!
Ruvy
April 30, 2008
07:44 AM
Guido,
Yer gettin' ahead of yerself just a bit.
Please re-read:
The series has three parts.
This article examines how the United States got to the apex it did. The second uses Israel as an example of American duplicity regarding its supposed "friends" or "allies". The third views what might have happened and how the world would be different if indeed the United States supported the State of Israel as one-sidedly as so many charge.
I have to catch a 14:20 bus to Jerusalem (it's about 13:45 now) to serve guard duty as a police volunteer for a ceremony commemorating the fall of the Warsaw Ghetto.
When I get home, if I'm not too tired, I'll start writing the second and third articles of this series (the two really go together). But, if you are just panting for a preview and can't wait, go to Blogcritics Magazine and read this series of articles. A lot of the material for the second article will come from this series. In order to read the entire series, you'll have to go here, reading articles 72 through 75. The third article of this series at DC will be a stroll in my favorite forest of science fiction, alternative history.
You don't have to read very far to understand the author's view; the leadership is a "cold-blooded bunch of bastards with every arrogant pretension" and the average American is "decent" but "naïve". These statements are mild compared to his previous remarks; see "Islamophobia - Organisation of Islamic Countries Report".
To make this brief, Guido, to people who evince good will, one acts with civility, even if one disagrees. To liars, one pours on the vitriol. I was forced to deal with both at the article you refer to. You are in that first category.
Also, just to remind you, for about five decades, I was part of the Joe Sixpack crowd in the States.
And now I have to get going.
Ciao!
commonsense
April 30, 2008
08:33 AM
Ruvy:
""I have to catch a 14:20 bus to Jerusalem (it's about 13:45 now) to serve guard duty as a police volunteer for a ceremony commemorating the fall of the Warsaw Ghetto.""
Gotta "love" these "asides". Give us a more detailed itinerary next time....
commonsense
April 30, 2008
08:37 AM
Ruvy:
"To liars, one pours on the vitriol."
As one of them "liars" I can attest that the vitriol was laughable....mostly, our friend started foaming, frothing, typing in upper-case when his non-lies about conversations with G-d were not taken at face value by others...
Chandra
April 30, 2008
09:36 AM
This post sounds like one of the major conspiracy theories that are posted on youtube these days.
I cannot speak for Pakistan but i can say that India really does not know what to do with America. There are varied opinions within the country and that reflects in how the Govt conducts itself - in a confusing way. Either way, these days you cannot rely on others, you will have to do things yourselves.
Whether American businesses control/donot control the Govt is debatable. As long as the average guy is gettinng food to eat and able to buy an Ipod who cares. In my country 300 M live in the worst conditions possible. Even dogs in the west lead a better life than them. Therefore, whether somebody controls or does not is totally immaterial. In fact, the US is of no consequence to 90% of Indians.
rgds
Ruvy
April 30, 2008
05:23 PM
In my country 300 M live in the worst conditions possible. Even dogs in the west lead a better life than them. Therefore, whether somebody controls or does not is totally immaterial. In fact, the US is of no consequence to 90% of Indians.
This is all true, Chandra. As for the importance of the United States to India, it is weakening, but it is still the biggest economy on the planet, and has the largest bunch of nukes. That's worth paying attention to. The point is that the US is of consequence to the small percentage of Indians who run your country. From what I've read here, some of that percentage reads what is written here; hence the series of articles.
Ruvy,
May 2, 2008
12:10 PM
This is from the Los Angeles Times from nearly forty years ago. It was written by Eric Hoffer, a longshoreman turned philosopher. I identify with Hoffer because instead of having gone to elite schools like so many soft brained "intellectuals" who blather on endlessly today, he graduated from the far tougher elite school - the School of Hard Knocks.
I have a premonition that will not leave me. [EDITED - IRRELEVANT]
Have a good Sabbath,
[EDITED]
Reuven
Anamika
May 2, 2008
02:03 PM
[EDITED FOR CONSISTENCY]
that would be construed as problematic. So can I PLEASE get SOME explanations from ONE of the DC editors as to WHY there are OBVIOUS double standards on this site?
And yes Aaman, I am sick of the hate speech on DC. The only reason I end up posting is to try to counter the hatred but it is depressing, sickening and finally getting to the stage that I cant be bothered to look at the filth that is spouted in the guise of "free speech."
Thanks
commonsense
May 2, 2008
02:07 PM
Anamika,
I totally agree! And to think that it is Ruvy who is alerted when there are signs of possible "anti-semitism"....!!! What's going on here, is anybody's guess!
Aaman
URL
May 2, 2008
02:44 PM
The editors are not around all the time - and any comments can be brought to attention, FWIW, Osama would be welcome as an author, if he'd follow factual policy guidelines.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
03:18 PM
Aaman.
Understand. However, I assume there are some very broad parameters as to what constitutes "desi topics". No, I am not suggesting censorship, but methinks that India and Pakistan are inserted in the topic, simply to push an agenda that really has nothing whatsoever to do with desi issues. Our friend wants to use DC for a discussion of issues related to Judaica( and a very specific Kahane version of it)...there are other forums for this kind of talk.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
03:20 PM
on the other hand, it's just a personal premonition, ie. G-d is not actually talking to our friend Ruvy.
Aaman
URL
May 2, 2008
03:29 PM
Desis can write about what they please, and we are a big enough tent that any topic can be correlated to desi-ness.
Man Singh
URL
May 2, 2008
04:54 PM
Punjabi, Sindhi,Afgani, Kashmiri and Bangla Hindus/Sikhs kicked out of Pakistan after brutal looting beating killing and concerting has been absorbed by Hindus/Sikhs speaking different languages and living in differnt states of India.
Jehadis had successfully forced it on our heads.
Isreal and Jews are million times kinder then Jehadis as they never forced palestenians to run to Arab lands.
But myopic people never compare the two logically but move by propaganda of jehadis.
Those who have even basic knowledge of Islam know pretty well that islam considers all Muslims as `Umma' ie one entity. Cast creed color or nationality is not recognised in Islam and it is a very good thing and nice attempt to intergate humanity.
Isreal is definitely better then jehadis of Pakistana dn bangla desh who kicked out millions of Hindus/Sikhs out of their homelands by force.
Suffering of palestenians is of much lower magnitude then Hindus/Sikhs suffered in 1947 or Kashmiri Hindus/Sikhs/Budhsist are suffering today.
Media coverage to palestenians is around million times more then to suffering of Kassmiri Hindus.
Though in Ideal condition should be that none should suffer `sarve bhavantu sukhina sarve santu niramaya' ( Let all be happy and healthy), but when we compare the evils we'll find Isreal is much much lesser then jehaids.
Any decendents of Pakistani or Kashmiri Hindu refugees can definitely give a comparison.
Unfortunately so called scholars in India never carried out any research on the suffering of Hindus/Sikhs/Budhsits at the hands of Jehadis only because research will lead their favorite Jehadis to top position in the art of killing and torturing.
I request all consciounse readers reserachers abd blogers here to please spare some time and present a comparative study between so called jewish sins in Palestine and jehaids bloodshed of Pakistani kashmir and bandla Deshi Hindus.
As per my estaimate 3 million were killed. 50 million were kicked out though from Indian side Muslims migrated voluntarily and nobody asked them to go. Additional Land Area grabbed by Jehaids by violence is around 14% of 5.6 million Square KM (Pre partition India) becomes 0.784 million Square Kilometers.
Now please let readers know :
1. How many Square KM of Palestenian land has been captured by Israel compare to 0.784 Million Square KM land of India by Jehadis.
2. How many Palestenians have been killed till date compare to around 3 million Indians by jehadis.
3. Around 50 million refugess kicked out of their homes by jehadis in India, how many Palestenians refugees created by isreal so far.
And then compare who is lesser evil in mathematical terms.
As nobody is perfect in this world. We should try to minimse the evil and side by lesser evel.
It will be nicer if while doing research same parameters can counted for USA, UK , and communist countries to establsih whom to associate and whom to discrad.
I am almost sure Stalin and Mao will top the list of killings of innocent.
media covrage
commonsense
May 2, 2008
05:49 PM
Ms:
""Isreal and Jews are million times kinder then Jehadis as they never forced palestenians to run to Arab lands.""
Wrong! The last measurement on the kindometer indicated that Isreal (or Israel if you prefer) was a million and a half times kinder than the Jehadis. Please update your stats.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
05:50 PM
MS:
""And then compare who is lesser evil in mathematical terms.""
I did, in my lab. You are right!! My results:
The mass of the ass = the angle of the dangle
commonsense
May 2, 2008
05:53 PM
MS:
""As nobody is perfect in this world. We should try to minimse the evil and side by lesser evel.""
Nobody's perfect in this world? Have you not heard of a certain Ruvy from Jerusalem??
commonsense
May 2, 2008
05:55 PM
MS:
""1. How many Square KM of Palestenian land has been captured by Israel compare to 0.784 Million Square KM land of India by Jehadis.""
Patwaris of all national and religious stripes are engaged in a measurement exercise, even as I write. The results will be conveyed to you ASAP.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
05:57 PM
MS:
"Media coverage to palestenians is around million times more then to suffering of Kassmiri Hindus."
Unfortunately, nothing can be done about this, as we all know that global media is in the hands of the Arabs, particularly Palestinians, even though for you they are the one and the same.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
06:00 PM
MS:
""It will be nicer if while doing research same parameters can counted for USA, UK , and communist countries to establsih whom to associate and whom to discrad.""
Agree. However, the world is not a nice place, so I'd better discrad everyone and live in my own private sphere.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
06:02 PM
MS:
""But myopic people never compare the two logically but move by propaganda of jehadis""
Worry not! Help is on the way in the guise of a million pairs of spectacles that will rectify myopia.
commonsense
May 2, 2008
06:04 PM
MS:
""I am almost sure Stalin and Mao will top the list of killings of innocent.""
Why almost? Perhaps because the top spot could be claimed by "MO"? (as you usually put it?)Besides, Stalin and Mao were hardly jehadis?
commonsense
May 2, 2008
06:08 PM
""The author grew up in Brooklyn New York, moved to Minnesota where he managed restaurants and wrote stories""
Wrote stories? Still writing fiction....
commonsense
May 2, 2008
06:10 PM
""Why Neither India nor Pakistan Should Rely on America""
But they don't! Who believes they do??
Anamika
May 2, 2008
09:02 PM
Aaman, the Nazis talked of lands that had been "liberated" of the JEWS! And you have a DC contributor who signs off as lands that have been "liberated from Arabs." I would like NOT to have to spell the point out any more clearly.
I understand that as the DC editor, you want someone who is provoking. But have to say I am finding DC to be an increasingly hate-filled site that I check not for the quality of the writing (which is a shame because it is REALLY DAMN GOOD!) but to counter hate speech. Frankly, not sure how long I would find it interesting to do that because there is obviously an editorial bias (if Ruvy get alerted of "possible anti-semitism" so do OTHER people on DC get alerted of Islamophobia, anti-Hindu, anti-Christianity misogyny, racism etc?) Just wondering how this works on DC - and if Ruvy and his "chosen" people have special privileges?
Chandra
May 2, 2008
11:21 PM
Man Singh
See, everytime you write, you bring the jehadi picture into play. I have a problem with. Not because we donot have a problem or that it is not serious but simply because our biggest threat to our integrity is our own greed. Right from the average joe extending his bedroom beyong approval limits to slum dwellers occupying public land to embezzling politicians we as a nation have a strong corruption culture. Because we are so corrupt we are easy pickings for others.
Anamika
May 3, 2008
06:29 AM
Three cheers, Chandra. :-) Thanks for stating that. But of course khud ko sudharana itna mushkil hota hai ki kisi aur ko dosh dena behtar lagta hai. For all the talk of the dacoits and thieves, if the home were secured - from the inside - there would be no danger of falling to forces from outside. But yahaan to kuch log gharwalon ko bhi maarne par tulei hain. And that makes us weaker.
commonsense
May 3, 2008
11:02 AM
just to refresh our memories:
Ruvy:
""Howling at me that you can refute my arguments concerning G-d's gift of the Land to Israel is a useless exercise. I do not put them down in the interest of convincing you of anything. I put them down because they are TRUTH.""
Ruvy
May 3, 2008
03:52 PM
I was going to comment in answer - but, seeing as how anything I say is edited as "irrelevant" or "blathering", the lot of you are not worth the effort.
I'll decide later if posting the other two parts of this series are worth my effort as well.
Right now, it does not appear to be.
Man Singh, you are a good man, much put upon by fools who haven't the intelligence to argue with you, and have just the verbal skills to be nasty and sarcastic.
As for the premonition that does not leave me, you can edit it away as irrelevant - or you can pay attention to it.
But if you are going to edit my premonitions away, you should also edit out the mass of garbage comments whining about them.
commonsense
May 3, 2008
04:45 PM
Ruvy:
""I'll decide later if posting the other two parts of this series are worth my effort as well.""
Oh no!!! Now look what we have done!!! Deprived ourselves of personal premonitions, accounts of the doings of the divine real-estate agent personally handing over prime land to the prime chosen-people. Repent, recant you so-called commonsense but in reality, lying, mewling nonsense! What could I possibly do to cajole, beg, carry kicking-and-screaming Ruvy from Jersusalem??!!
commonsense
May 3, 2008
04:47 PM
I have a premonition that refuses to leave me. In fact, it positively haunts me. And it is: our good man Ruvy from Jerusalem will be back with Part II and III of his premonitions, as soon as he is done consulting with divine editors and the holy real-estate dealer.
commonsense
May 3, 2008
04:50 PM
Ruvy #44:
I was wrong! Our friend can write an entire message without bringing in Judaica at all. Wow! It is unheard of, but not impossible!!
Man Singh
URL
May 3, 2008
08:21 PM
Bhai Chandra #41
I agree with you.
Yes e have some very internal problems as well. That issue of our lack of morality is exteremely dangerous and I never denied that.
But this is not the issue being discussed here and that's why I never write about it here. External dangers and internal dangers both has to be dealt with.
We can not ignore any one of them. We should strenthen ourselves inside and keep a check on outside attacks as well.
That's how we ensure security of our individual property. same formula is applicable for national security as well.
Anamika
May 3, 2008
08:56 PM
#44: Get over yourself already! You have tempted us with absenting yourself from DC WAY too often before, only to leave us disappointed by (re-) appearing with repetitious tedium.
I realise that you get courted royally for writing on DC but lets really be honest - most desi readers aren't exactly gagging for the settler/Kahane/fanatic version of Israeli politics.
Would we REALLY lose a momentous insight into subcontinental's policies vis a vis US with your subsequent articles? Given this piece, and your not-too-hidden agenda of "Israel uber alles", probably not!.
Go "liberate Samaria" by pumping sewage into Arab lands. You do a good job of pumping verbal versions of it on this site!
And yes Aaman - I am following your advice of taking on the sources of hate speech on the comments page. And please feel free to edit/delete as much of the above as you feel necessary. There is a good chance that it may be "potentially anti-Semitic."
Chandra
May 4, 2008
02:23 AM
Man Singh
You make an interesting point. This post indeed has nothing to do with Jehadis. This is about India's relationship with America. In comment 28, i searched for the word ' America' i did not find it. I saw the words jehadi and Pakistan multiple times. Really sad I am sorry
rgds
sridhar
May 4, 2008
02:51 AM
Chandra,
Ref-comment 19.
'In fact, the US is of no consequence to 90% of Indians.'
But 90% of Indians do not have much say in their government. The ruling elites have a comprador mind set, which believes that what is good for Uncle Sam is good for India. The nuclear deal which the Congress party wanted to push had clauses that tied India to foreign US foreign policy. Even the BJP does not different views from the congress party even though they are in opposition. The policies of Bush, which were condemned in US, Europe and other parts of the world had a popular rating among the outsourced middle classes in India. So I won't be as unconcerned as you are about Ruvy's article-'Who runs America?'
Btw- your comment 'This post sounds like one of the major conspiracy theories that are posted on youtube these days.' Interesting.
Are you saying a world view shaped by uncritically assimilating the news given out by CNN, Reader's Digest, Time, and Newsweek is far superior to youtube?
sridhar
May 4, 2008
03:21 AM
Dear Ruvy,
Thanks for writing this piece. Looking forward to the other parts in the same series.
sridhar
May 4, 2008
03:37 AM
Anamika,
'I wondered how long before Mullah Ruvy's not-so-hidden agenda would make an appearance. And here.'
You appear to read the first line of the article and the last last line before directing your misdirected firepower on Ruvy.
Aren't you contributing to hate speech yourself without understanding the author's viewpoint.
Anamika
May 4, 2008
07:04 AM
Sridhar - The issue of HATE speech is a serious one although I realise that most desis have quite flexible views on this so I suggest you scroll up and read the context of that comment. My comment was aimed at #44 which the editors deleted but its meaning can be found in some version in my response.
I shall pose some questions to you:
1) If a Modi goon signed off from some village that had been "ethnically cleansed" by saying "liberated Vadodara/Godhra/Gujarat" etc, would it be acceptable?
2) If a jihadi signed off a comment on how divine retribution shall fall on the nonbelievers (ie non-chosen people) saying "liberated Kashmir" would it be acceptable?
3) OR lets get REALLY specific: if a neo-Nazi speaking of the destruction of the European Jewry signed off from Poland saying "liberated Poland", would you jump to his/her defence quite with as much alacrity?
So why is it okay for a violent settler/fanatic to speak of a "liberated Samaria." Do I need to spell out HOW Samaria has been "liberated?" Although of course given that for some nutters on DC, as long as it is Muslims who are raped/tortured/killed and expelled, its okay!
And yes, I DID read the piece in its entirety. Mostly because the title appeared to voice a view that is shared by MOST political and economic analysts in India and Pakistan, regardless of the strategic imperatives that ensure that we engage with America.
Unfortunately, other than a litany of historical wrongs strung together about Israel/Holocaust/Jews and presented as evidence of US's lack of reliability, there was very little of value to desis in the piece.
Moreover the author is working off the assumption that US is considered reliable (at any point in history) by Indians or Pakistanis, or that the subcontinent is unaware of that nation's unreliability (either choice shows at best an extreme ignorance of the area that the writer is choosing to address or at worst, an implicit hubris).
Furthermore, there is very little beyond fuzzy conspiracy theories: (see his lament on how the American big business invested all over the world, hence had little interest in saving the jewry. Of course if someone were to point out that "jewish big businesses" were also investing and profiting from these global investments and were inextricable part of this horrible "big business" the response from our man in Jerusalem would be shrill screams of "anti-Semitism" (complete with email warnings from the editorial board).
There is also a clear lack of interest on part of the author in acknowleding or noting the subcontinent's experience with the US over the past 60 years that have taught the region ample lessons about it. Yet beyond the title, there is little attempt or interest in addressing the specificities of the subcontinental experience. The piece indeed is nothing more than far right piece of propaganda masquerading (in less than a fig leaf) as of interest to the subcontinent!
Given the author's one-point agenda, this piece ALSO has little to do with subcontinent. THAT particular one-point agenda has been exposed over and over again on this site and the author's own words: an extreme Kahane-inspired, settler-colonialist vision of Palestine-Israel and the world.
Btw, just wondering: given your article on Tibet, do you believe that this Zionist "settler-colony" has also gone a long way in liberating the backward, suffering natives of Palestine? After all, they did live in miserable circumstances prior to the naqba. You may have evidence that colonisation has been good for them. Look forward to the response.
commonsense
May 4, 2008
09:17 AM
Sridhar, the quote in question was deleted from the original post by Ruvy, but here it is from Anamika # 22:
"I have a premonition that will not leave me. The State of Israel will be destroyed; and a holocaust of destruction will be upon all of YOU. But a Jewish entity will survive here and arise in triumph upon the ashes of your world.
Have a good Sabbath,
Blessings from Liberated Samaria,
Reuven"
Sridhar, when the context is kept in mind, and when veterans who have followed Ruvy's antics for quite a while, it is clear that the article above has little to do with American foreign policy but everything to do with another quite different agenda. Nothing wrong with that, since anybody can write anything. What is wrong of course, is Ruvy claiming victimhood, lying about "anti-semimtism" by equating it with any critique of the worst form of racism spouted by Rabbi Kahane, and then spouting hate speech after he is done. Of course, Ruvy gladly joins in some critiques of Israeli govt. policies, because his rants are derived from Rabbi Kahane whom he reveres as prophet of sorts. And as everyone knows, Rabbi Kahane represents the racist lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe even among the worst of the ethnic cleansers in Israel. And when he runs into obstacles via arguments, he foams, froths, quotes the Torah as the fount of truth for the entire world, issues threats, disappears for a while and then re-surfaces with a modicum of rationality, only to repeat the same performance all over again. And yes, he does appear to be invited (or was in the past) to detect any anti-semitism on DC! The irony, the irony!!
Chandra
May 4, 2008
12:58 PM
Sridhar
Please demonstrate some intelligence when responding to others comments.
I said this
"This post sounds like one of the major conspiracy theories that are posted on youtube these days"
To which you responded by saying.....
"Are you saying a world view shaped by uncritically assimilating the news given out by CNN, Reader's Digest, Time, and Newsweek is far superior to youtube?"
Now, where did i suggest that something on youtube is untrue or only something on CNN or mainstream channels is true?
Kucch bhi...
Ruvy
May 5, 2008
04:58 AM
Sorry for misspelling your name, Sridhar. It was not intentional.
Ruvy
Aaman
URL
May 5, 2008
10:16 AM
The comments above have been deleted/edited as irrelevant - keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site. You're welcome to criticize the site and its editors as much as you want, we hope we learn from the criticism.
As I said in a private mail, we are not in the quest for traffic or pageranks or any such tawdry thing. In fact, the traffic logs will show you that politics articles typically get the least hits, sports and entertainment do far better, so if we were, we'd be writing about a lot more than what we do.
At the same time, we don't restrict our authors as long as the content is verifiable and well-written. Comments are a gray area, always, and what is correct in one context, may be disallowed in another. We have an all-volunteer editorial group, so we might miss stuff that violates policy, but generally address it if brought to our attention.
We are open to all opinions, though, and will not shut up a pro-Israeli writer or even a pro-Arab writer. We are truly a big tent, and there is no overt or covert bias to any side. This is not a site for desis alone, though, and all perspectives are welcome, so you're invited to address any imbalances yourself, or keep authors on the straight and narrow through comments, as bandwidth might allow.
Ruvy
May 5, 2008
10:42 AM
[EDITED FOR CONSISTENCY]
I'll let Aaman defend Blog Critics Magazine, [ED]
In the mean-time go look up at the upper left hand quadrant of the page, just under the "My Yahoo!" and "Search with Google" boxes. It says "Part of the BLOGCRITICS Network." There, in addition to DC, you see Dawn Olsen's Glosslip, and Eric Berlin's On-Line Media Cultist portal and more. you really ought to explore the place. It can be awful interesting.
Anamika
May 5, 2008
07:27 PM
Aaman: "You're welcome to criticize the site and its editors as much as you want, we hope we learn from the criticism."
Is that why the comments have been deleted? Or is it really about hate speech?
Sorry Aaman, am calling it quits until the pro-Zionist genocidal propaganda you choose to invite on to DC gets a little too out of hand (and others on the board choose to remain silent!).
I ENJOY reading the stuff on DC and really felt there was a community of which I formed a part. But I feel sickened by the idea that I ever felt part of a community that excuses/invites/tolerates hate speech as has been the case here.
I am also shocked/saddened to realise that DC - for all its "big tent" logic - choose to ignore the reality of those of us who live/work in Europe (as well as the sensitivities of those of us who consider genocide horrible EVEN as it extends past the Holocaust) and thus have to abide by criminal laws regarding hate speech. But I suppose as long as the "chosen" people get their say it hardly matters if desis are fettered from response. The editorial policy has revealed as much!
Cheers
A
commonsense
May 5, 2008
07:34 PM
Aaman:
""keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site.""
I have not a clue as to why my comments in response to Ruvy's sarcasm, were edited! Surely, I have never ever, intentionally or unintentionally promoted hatred of any particular group or community. This is not what we can say of Ruvy. To deploy an Americanism "Oh, Well!".
commonsense
May 5, 2008
07:39 PM
Aaman:
"keep personal mudslinging/hatred off the site."
I suppose I get it! "personal mudslinging and hatred off the site" while group mudsingling/hatred is just fine? Quite in tune with the neo-liberal worship of the individual.
But seriously, nothing I wrote that was edited can be construted as "hatred" even though I refused to be bullied by Ruvy. The americanism again, "Oh Well!!". If courting controversy is what works for this site, ""whatever""!
Anamika
May 5, 2008
07:57 PM
DC Editors: I realise this is a humble desi begging for intellectual alms from the GREAT DC EDITORS but could you PLEASE explain WHY #58 is acceptable? A(nd yes PLEASE BAN ME if you feel necesary!) SO the DC policy is now to provide links to hate-speech rather than carrying it? A bit of a dismal compromise don't you think?
Do I get to sign off from "ethnically cleansed/liberated" lands? Or is that particular privilege denied to desis?
Aaman
URL
May 5, 2008
10:15 PM
All #58 has, post-editing, is an invitation to check out other sites in BC - how is that hate speech?
At the risk of repeating myself, critique the message - applying labels is not good enough. we're not courting controversy, and not promoting hate speech, individual or collective, but we're not stifling anyone. commonsense, a section of the thread was cleared out, for consistency, even milder comments in the middle have got wiped,
Aaman
URL
May 5, 2008
10:18 PM
P.S. the 'sign-off' has been edited and will be in future. My apologies for missing the connotations.
commonsense
May 5, 2008
11:39 PM
Aaman,
Not a problem. I totally understand. With so many threads and comments, it is not an easy task to keep on top of things. Trust me, take my word for it, I'm not just saying this to make you or anyone feel better.
Best wishes,
CS
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