Tibet - The Myth of Shangri-La

wish your voice be heard by those people that deceived by the western media

My own take on the Tibetian issue is that it is strictly a political issue and whatever India's stand on it should be according to its own interests. The Dalai Lama is a suave political leader and nothing more. I am generally skeptical of the so-called "spiritual leaders" and the Dalai lama is no exception.

The biggest joke is that Dalai Lama was awarded the noble prize of peace by those innocent "authorities"

So the way to counter the western "romantic" view of Tibet is by ANOTHER lopsided view of the place?

The solution for one sort of tyranny is not another sort of tyranny, ie so replacing feudal tyranny by a foreign occupation force that brutalizes the population enmasse.

Sridhar, you live in Bangalore. Why dont you go out to the Mysore camps and ask them what the Tibetans think of the Chinese occupation.

Btw - the CIA payments bit makes for a nice little "swiftboating" attempt except these were not donations to the Tibetan government in exile but costs of joint military operations - why dont you read up Mikel Dunham's book or simply talk to the old soldiers who live around Mysore.

And while we are at it, lets talk about Tibetan government in exile that has provided support for India's wars dating back to 1971 all the way to Kargil. Where would that fit into the "evil" lamas scheme?

Brian, can you google Tiannenmen Square or July 4 - China from your location? Just wondering....

For a more balanced view of Tibet before the occupation, try, "Three Years in Tibet" by Ekai Kawguchi. The sources you cite paint too bleak a picture of life before occupation and too rosy a picture of Tibetan life under the Chinese yoke. Biographies such as "The Road Ahead" by the late Dawa Norbu, a JNU professor, provide a balanced, indigenous, seemingly genuine account. By virtue of the similarities between aboriginal paintings and oracle bone inscriptions of the same era, China claims that Australia has historically been an integral part of the Motherland. At issue is not the veracity of China's hegemonistic claims, it is the totalitarian police state used to back them up. Disagree about Tibetan autonomy, border placement with India, the pre-1948 connections between Taiwan and the Mainland, or any other item in the central committees liturgy, and you'll find yourself mining potash in the Gobi desert for the next 6 generations. Lin Biao's Army Liberated Tibet. You are sitting pretty in Bangalore, Srindhar.

But for how much longer? As China completes its annexation of Burma, which it considers to be historically an inalienable part of the Motherland, and the occupation of the former CIS countries continues apace, along with the removal of the "Indo" bit from Indochina, coupled with the Han-only control of SE Asia's economy HQ'd in Singapore, the Hereditary wealth of the Indian aristocracy may suddenly find itself devalued, no matter that it is held in jewels and gold instead of paper. The border may creep further South.

None of us, Srindhar, can really afford to ignore wholesale abuses of Human rights these days: Our own are too insecure to allow the destruction of those of our fellows to pass without notice. If you were Chinese, you could put your faith in Han Chauvinism instead of humanism; or choose any other communalist creed.

Perhaps the romanticism of Tibet is as false as the beauty of a woman: One is intimately tied up with the reproduction of humans, the other with the reproduction of secular humanism.

Enter the hatchet man

The CIA had to come in SOMEWHERE and it did. LOL!

The CIA! The CIA! Its everywhere! It is probably also responsible for the Great Red Spot on Jupiter.

What a laughable article! Wants us to believe that the Chinese Communist massmurderers are upto something great in Tibet. That's why there is no mention of the prolonged and continuing forced and programmed influx of Han Chinese into Tibet. This cultural genocide is at the core of the problem. In his long winding article replete with references, C. R. Sridhar makes not a single mention of this ethnic cleansing of Tibet.

But how can he! It doesnt fit the template. The Chinese, or Communists, can do no wrong you see. Oh they're too innocent, too good, civilized, well mannered and cultured to do anything as minutely offending as putting a hand on the shoulder of a Tibetan or swatting a fly.

But those Tibetans, you see, those uncultured, uncivilized, backward, medieval, barbaric Tibetans with dirty hair, runny noses and (now we are getting into business) an unequal class structure are a bunch of cheats. How dare these yak milk drinking dirty fucks project themselves as victims in front of the International/Western/Capitalist media!

This article's stress on irrelevant issues like Tibet's supposed backwardness in 1959 (as far as I know, the Chinese werent flying spaceships in 1959 and were actually dying in the millions because of a massive famine) and complete ignorance of the core issue - the occupation of one country by another monster - shows that the author has an extremely poor understanding of the issue at hand.

But that has always been the problem with arm chair critics. When you cant get off your butt to go and see things as they actually are, you dont usually think in straight lines. And this article goes from A to H to Y to K to U and then to B instead of going straight from A to B and misses some core alphabets altogether.

I am now angry after having wasted 15 precious minutes of my life trying to appreciate this unimaginably stale load of crap

Hmph!

In recent times the Han Chinese constituting 95% of the immense Chinese population have settled in large numbers dominating the Tibetan economy. The Han Chinese views the Tibetans with contempt. The economic levers are in the hands of the Chinese, which has aroused the antagonism of the local Tibetans. The culture of Tibet is in danger of being effaced by the demographic shift in favour of the Han Chinese.

How mildly put! The culture of Tibet is already half effaced. The Chinese have done irreparable loss to Tibet and the culture of its people. Cant you see? In a few years, the present Dalai Lama will be no more. Then, China will appoint its own fake Dalai Lama. In a few decades, hardly any Tibetans will live in Tibet. It will be completely Chinese land. What a tragedy!

Look at the words used: In recent times the Han Chinese constituting 95% of the immense Chinese population have settled in large numbers dominating the Tibetan economy. The Han Chinese views the Tibetans with contempt.

Settled?! As if Tibetans were faced with a shortage of manpower and invited the Chinese to settle in Tibet and start a new life.

Its not a voluntary migration. Its a forced influx - for Chinese interests and against Tibetan interests. But the author obviously doesnt think that way.

This is a dumb article that lacks any real substance, and for that matter, any real truth. The chinese government has always been a savage and brutal government, and is known to be one of the biggest violaters of human rights. They spread propaganda around to hide the truth about all the mass murders that they commit. All those that buy into that crap are idiots. Stop trying to demonise Dalai Lama who has always stood for peace. By the way, I am ashamed of how cowardly the Indian Government is acting right now. This is the same China that has tried to buly its nieghbors since 1950s. Have you forgotten 1962?

Lets talk facts since the article so conveniently ignores them:

In 1959, Tibet had six thousand monasteries. By 1960, only 370 remained. The rest were closed as monks were singled out for punishment and public humiliation, torture and execution. Read Warren J. Smith's The Tibetan Nation for an extensive account of just HOW the Chinese shut these down!

Yes land was redistributed to the "peasants" who had in the past rented it from estate owners. Except most of the harvest was FORCIBLY confiscated to be sent to mainland China. The new landowners were left with little. In a way the Chinese were being honest - they DID get rid of the inequalities between rich and poor. After 1959, in Tibet, EVERYONE was poor and starving.

THEN all Tibetans were forced to convert any Tibetan currency they had to the Chinese yuan at a rate fixed by the Chinese that was half the currency's pre-1959 value.

An anti-rebellion law was put into effect where anyone considered helping the "rebels" was publicly executed (interesting how often these were family members of monks or monks themselves).

THEN the THAMZINGS were introduced even in the remotest villages of Tibet. The accused was brought forward, a list of "crimes" was read, the onlookers were forced to denounce the "reactionary", and then the beatings began, often followed by execution. Those thrown into prisons were, as often as not, to die from systematic starvation, exposure, or untreated illness." Thats from Mikel Dunham.

"New variations of public torture and murder were introduced. Heads were smashed in with rifle butts. Eyes were gouged out with chopsticks. Monks were wrapped in blankets, doused in kerosene, then set on fire. Public castrations, roasting Tibetans over barbecue pits, stripping nuns and raping them, and gang rape by soldiers were among the more imaginative "cleansing" techniques used by the Chinese to create what they called "a heaven on Earth."

You know the source of that above info? The International Commission of Jurists report titled The Question of Tibet and The Rule of Law.

Finally, I wonder if Jamyang Norbu knows how selectively his words have been used and distorted by this article? This is the same man who finished his TV interviews for his novel with "Jai Bharat, Jai Tibet."

Sridhar is a Koshy's regular, a Tinto Brass fan, and a cynical Bangalorean

You forgot to add [EDITED - PERSONAL]

Dear Anamika,
Thank you for your comments on the article.

The Western press has perpetuated the myth of the idyllic lama rule prior to the Chinese occupation of Tibet. I refer to the rule of the Lamas as Shangri-La- a mythical place full of serenity where the Buddhist monks ruled with compassion.The class structure during the Lamas was regressive and exploitative and the Shangri-La was a sham.

"With the exception of about 300 noble families, all laymen and laywomen in Tibet were serfs (Mi ser) bound via ascription by parallel descent to a particular lord (dPon-po) though an estate, in other words sons were ascribed to their father's lord but daughters to their mother's lord."
(refer-
Goldstein, Melvyn, Taxation and the Structure of a Tibetan village, Central Asiatic Journal, 1971, p15.)

Your reference is also invited to other scholarly studies-# Goldstein, Melvyn, An Anthropological Study of the Tibetan Political System, 1968, p40

# ^ Rahul, Ram, The Structure of the Government of Tibet, 1644-1911, 1962, pp263-298

# ^ Grunfeld, A. Tom, The Making of Modern Tibet, p12: "The vast majority of the people of Tibet were serfs, or as they were known there, mi ser."
Old Tibet was groaning under the weight of a few lamas and the secular landlords while the majority were essentially serfs.

The position of women was appalling. The word for "woman" in old Tibet, kiemen, meant "inferior birth." Women were told to pray, "May I reject a feminine body and be reborn a male one." Lamaist superstition associated women with evil and sin. It was said "among ten women you'll find nine devils.Anything women touched was considered tainted-so all kinds of taboos were placed on women. Women were forbidden to handle medicine. Han Suyin reports, "No woman was allowed to touch a lama's belongings, nor could she raise a wall, or 'the wall will fall.'... A widow was a despicable being, already a devil. No woman was allowed to use iron instruments or touch iron. Religion forbade her to lift her eyes above the knee of a man, as serfs and slaves were not allowed to life the eyes upon the face of the nobles or great lamas." I am sure you would not be very comfortable in old Tibet born as a female child.

The 14th Dalai Lama supported the release of the mass murderer Pinochet in April 1999 when Pinochet was put under house arrest in Britain to be extradited for crimes against humanity.So much for compassion of the Dalai!

you appear to have missed the dominant message of the article which is-To denounce the Chinese occupation does not mean we have to romanticize the former feudal régime.To my Shangri-La addicts who shout slogans for Dalai Lama remember the Tibetans were screwed by the Lamas and then by the Chinese. No useful purpose would be served by restoring the feudal theocracy and screwing them all over again.What they need is a constitutional democracy without a mythical Shangri-La.

By the way i am not very comfortably settled in Bangalore as i am caught in Traffic jams. But thank god i am not in Shangri-La.

Dear ho ho ho,
you are vely vely funny.

Atlantean,

Before you accuse others of being dumb look at yourself in the mirror. you may find your image very revealing.
And get some audio cassettes and educate yourself about CIA history. You may find a CIA agent under your butt.

Dear Dosn't matter,
your comments have no matter!

John,
You paint a false picture of chinaman. yeah the yellow peril and Fu Manchu!
what your white brothers doing in Iraq? milking cow?

Anamika,

you please google british invasion tibet also google colonel younghusband you find many bad things english did.google opium war china you find many bad things whiteman do to china.google gulf war+US you find great evil.
so you mean evil done by chinamen alone?

It is an eye opener for all those who have blind faith in the human Gods/Demi God who thrive with their brutality over the innocent poor people of the area. The Tibetians are also no better under the Chinese rule but compared to the Shangri La of the Lamas, the Chinese rule may be preferable.

Tibetian Self Government possibly under Chinese Congtrol may fructify benefits to the Tibetian.

Sridhar, does this mean that sati/untouchability etc justify British colonization of India? Apparently we got a great deal of "development" from that experience too - slight problem that our share of global GDP went from nearly a quarter to negligible as all our resources went to power British industrial revolution. But hey - we deserved it given our class iniquities and poor treatment of women, right?

Or indeed the internecine rivalry between Shia-Sunni justify US occupation of Iraq? If you look at "economic" indicators for Iraq, apparently its the fastest growing economy in the world...slightly problem of course that it doesn't matter to the 700,000 dead Iraqis (stat from Lancet) But wait! They deserve it given their class iniquities and poor treatment of women, right?

The fact that Tibet was not perfect prior to 1952 in no way justifies the brutal occupation that was imposed by the Chinese.

Dear Anamika,

Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese after 1959, they did abolish slavery and the Tibetan serfdom system of unpaid labor. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular schools, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa. (See Greene, A Curtain of Ignorance, 248 and Grunfeld, The Making of Modern Tibet.)

The point of the article was to show that to welcome the end of the old feudal theocracy in Tibet is not to applaud everything about Chinese rule in that country.To denounce the Chinese occupation does not mean we have to romanticize the former feudal régime.

The myth of Shangri-La romanticizes the past when Tibet was ruled by the Lamas and the Tibetans who want to be free of China would like to be free of despotic theocratic rule of the lamas too.The return to the Golden era of Old Tibet is a dangerous fantasy not grounded in historical facts or sociological realities of the times.You have misread the article as a justification of Chinese occupation.

CRS

I understand the points you and Anamika make and both are not incorrect. The fundamental question is why are Tibetans so angry? Why do Tibetans still flee their country to India?

Chandra, are you sure Tibetians flock to India than they flock to Shanghai, Chongqinq, Qingdao, Guangzhou , Tianjin or Beijing. What do we offer them in India other than the right to protest?

Buddhisim is still practiced in other areas of China. It is more widespread in China than in India.

So what is the great deal that India offers to the Tibetean migrants. There are several people in the mysore camps who will want their life back in China. Look at the visas that Chinese authorities easily give to all of them to study, work.

Political freedom for Tibet is a different story. It must be delinked from the right to good life for majority of Tibetians. Tibet is an autonomous region in China much different than the Han regions. If Tibetians want, China can accomodate them in a special way just like HongKong or it extands to Taipei.

Chinese donot treat them as slaves unlike English treated us. Chinese governmanet treat their own people the same way. It makes sense that the middle ground is found for Tibetians than looking for confrontation which wont lead them anywhere. That is what they were trying till the Olympic fera caughtup.

Even if China had not occupied Tibet, I am sure it would have interfered in its internal affairs and maybe even created another Pol Pot. The first thing any communist power would do to destabilize a backward feudal nation is to prop up an anti-elitist movement among the oppressed, and soon enough, the entire nation would get plunged in a bloody civil war. History has produced many examples of this.

Atlantean,

'I am now angry after having wasted 15 precious minutes of my life trying to appreciate this unimaginably stale load of crap.'

Only 15 minutes? You are too modest.[EDITED].

sridhar,

not a question of whether I or other agree/disagee with you. thanks for writing this piece and provoking some much needed discussion that moves beyond the "shangrila" and "hell on earth" descriptors of this complex issue. no, not sitting on the fence here...but truth be told, i no not enough about this issue to issue definitive statements...

Of Beasts, Priests and Lamas

Priests, of whatever ilk, manipulate and exploit people. The world over. Priests come in many garbs - anyone who inveigles people into believing that they will lead them to promised lands and thus exercise power - material or spiritual, 'democratically' or otherwise - form part of the same exploitative priesthood. We have priests in politics - the innumerable political leaders (Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama come to mind as two 'Priests' who would be Queen-King). You have 'Religious' Priests who rule in the name of religion. And you have 'Material' Priests - (Fidel Castro and Kim Il-sung). Then you have corporate priests, technology priests... All chanting their respective mantras. Lift up their robes and you will find that there is nothing to distinguish between a Green 'Priest' or a Yellow 'Priest' or a Communist 'Priest' or a Capitalist 'Priest', ad nauseam.

Nothing unique about the erstwhile Priestly-exploitation aspect of Tibet and the Lamas. Another set has displaced the earlier set.

Is the Dalai Lama different from most priests? Who can tell - he has no kingdom, and has little power. Of the many 'World Figures' in the news these days, he comes across as remarkably consistent in his understanding - I daresay it's not merely a view, opinion, doctrine or dogma - that violence in its many forms is not a solution to a problem. Any problem. And that other ways of resolution must be explored. Perhaps Nelson Mandela amongst well-known figures still living, was the only other who not only talked but understood and practiced this. However imperfectly.

THE LAMA
The one-l lama,
He's a priest.
The two-l llama,
He's a beast.
And I will bet
A silk pajama
There isn't any
Three-l lllama.
-- Ogden Nash

Might the Dalai Lama turn out to be a LLLama... I watch with great interest and would cheerfully bet a silk pajama. Bring on the bets!

using the the olympics and the torch run in particular as a staging post sucks all the way to hell.China is only being targetted because its an asian country.Where were these protests when the olympics were held in australia ? Australia has a pretty shitty record when it comes to human rights violations against the native aboriginies.Lost generations,using them as guinea pigs ,we probably haven't heard the last of it

Dear Kelas,
Bravo for your forthright views.

Dear Epicure,
Enjoyed your Ogden Nash limerick.

Your comment 'his understanding - I daresay it's not merely a view, opinion, doctrine or dogma - that violence in its many forms is not a solution to a problem.'

As a man of peace his recent interview reported in Times said that 'Dalai Lama believed "it might be necessary to fight terrorists with violence and that it was 'too early to say' whether the Iraq war is a mistake." This is very strange for a man of peace to say!

I would not bet my silk or khadi pajamas on the Dalai yet!

correction- comment 30
The Dalai Lama's made this statement on Iraq war to the Times in 2003 and which was also reported in NY Times around the same time.

Patrick French the author of a book on Tibet titled Tibet Tibet: a personal history of a lost land has an interesting observation :

'the Free Tibet Campaign in London (of which I am a former director) and other groups have long claimed that 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since they invaded in 1950. However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support that figure. The question that Nancy Pelosi and celebrity advocates like Richard Gere ought to answer is this: Have the actions of the Western pro-Tibet lobby over the last 20 years brought a single benefit to the Tibetans who live inside Tibet, and if not, why continue with a failed strategy?'

Sridhar - you have me convinced.

Let the Tibetans be tortured and killed for the sake of modernization, and when the uber-developed Han Chinese have finished ethnically cleansing the land of Tibet, we can offer them Arunachal, Sikkim, Ladakh and Uttaranchal.

These are all under-developed parts of the world, with little oil/gas reserves, socially feudal and superstitious to boot as they hold on to ancient Buddhist beliefs. Let the Chinese develop these areas and make them shiny, new and happy, populated with the modern Han rather than the archaic Khasi, Kham, Gorkha et al.

Given Tibet's succesful experience of modernization, we know they will do a wonderful job. And when the Chinese are quite done with these areas, perhaps we can offer them Bihar, UP - slight problem of not having too many Buddhists but hell, social iniquities, superstition and underdevelopment is reason enough.

The only sad part of this: given the slow rate of Chinese progress in Tibet, your cosy perch in Bangalore should not be affected in this life time. Shame, really that you will have to forego the benefits of Chinese modernization.

Sridhar, be not a coward and accept openly that you are with China in perpetuating gross crime against humanity in Tibet.

Why are beating about the bush and using crooked writings to kill any sympathy with poor Tibetans.
be honest and say openly what's in your mind ultimately. made whole India slave of China? why not because cruelty of communism is modern and pro farmers while everything originated from soiul of India equals feudalism and inequality?

isn'nt it? Your article is a proof how an educated person can be blinded by nasty propaganda of communists in which makes you belive that lamas, who eat just once in a day amd hardly have two sets clothes to cover their body , are opressors and communist thugs of China are liberators of Humanity?

Perhaps I need to remind people here what `namakharami' or `gaddari' means.

It means eating drinking and enjoying in this land and working for the welfare of the enemies and invaders to one's own land.

Truth is that no matter what economic progress chinese `cities' have made picture about rural china is unknown altogather.

Farmers are not allowed to form any organisation other then puppet organisation of ruling communists.

laboriers are not allowed to form any organisation other then a puppet organisation of ruling communists.

Whole china needs freedom from dictatorial inhuman rule of communists in China where humans are treated like animals and not as humans.

that's why a women oficer of India is forced to get up at 2.00 AM for whimisical clarification needed by cruel dictators?

Communist rulers treat humans no better then animals and hence are worst then even fuedal systems. Therefore Tibet even if ruled by feudals , Tibetans will be treated much better then that teeated by inhuman communists and hence let all right thinking freedom loving people support Tibet to best of their capacity.

CRS

While you may be right in your analysis, your post seems to suggest that Tibetans were thrilled with the chinese invasion and the current occupation. I am afraid that is not the case. Even those who have been 'freed' by feudal domination aren't very happy. BTW using your arguments, it appears you are perfectly OK for any country to Invade Pakistan to free it from its feudal leadership.

Also, after all the subtle posts about Global trade etc, it is great that you have come out in the open as a communist. Atleast now we donot need to discredit you anymore. The time for communism has long gone by.

Dear Chandra,

I am extremely wary of bloggers who call other bloggers names. Using Tags such as 'commie', 'left wing nutter''intellectual crap' etc are dishonest methods to attack the author while leaving the argument intact.

By your admission 'While you may be right in your analysis, your post seems to suggest that Tibetans were thrilled with the chinese invasion and the current occupation.' is strange. The point is if my analysis about Tibet is essentially right what different does it make if I am from Mars?

BTW I did not say the Tibetans are thrilled with the Chinese occupation but did challenge the myth that the Tibetans were thrilled with Shangril- La of the lama.

Yes I have been guilty of posting subtle posts on Desicritics/ Blogcritics which have been praised on Channel 4(UK)and the Guardian (UK). Trans National Institute (Brussels)has published the article on nuclear policy.The founders of the Institute are who's who of the intellectual world.

So instead of trying to discredit my articles you would be well advised to take a close look at your spiritual guru Dalai Lama who has issued pretty tough statements on sexual conformity.It should send a chill down your spine.

Lastly, after the meltdown of the financial markets in US the mantra of financial deregulation of the free market ideology has come for severe criticism-a point not appreciated by your friends in desi.Perhaps, your rosy notions of neo-liberalism of the free market has been consigned to the dustbin of irrelevance.

Don't crow yet - you have not seen the end of history.

Sridhar, you do realise that all of those are bastions of left-wing, champagne socialist thought?

In the UK, the "Guardian reader" is short-hand for the Labour-voting, affluent but professing liberal leanings, home in the Cotswolds type? It generally stands for political hypocrisy and a clear counterpart for the BNP. I am not sure if you are helping your cause any with those references. Or perhaps you just want to prove Chandra right?

India has to be wary of China, not inasmuch as it is communist, inasmuch as it is a nation of Hans.

The real intent of Chinese aggression is not the promotion of communism, but the racial dominance of the Hans. Communism is only a tool to promote this agenda.

Western countries cannot be faulted for picking on China since they realised this danger early on (starting with the Yellow Peril theory that prevailed in the early part of the 20th century). India cannot afford to be complacent in this regard.

Sridhar: By your admission 'While you may be right in your analysis, your post seems to suggest that Tibetans were thrilled with the chinese invasion and the current occupation.' is strange. The point is if my analysis about Tibet is essentially right what different does it make if I am from Mars?

Chandra: I did not understand your point here. Let me reiterate. I donot have a disagreement with the facts presented. Many of them are true, some questionable but there is no denying that everything was not hunky dory before the chinese invasion in 1949. Having said that, just because there was feudalism does not entitle the chinese to invade another country. You haven't made a single point in your post condemning what I would characterise as an illegal invasion. Secondly, there is no evidence that Tibetans support the occupation. On the contrary, Tibetans strongly oppose the chinese occupation.

As far as your other comments go, it only reiterates the fact that you are a communist. I sense that you are still in denial.

Chandra, Ni hao

China is our neighbour as much as Tibet. Once the Olympic fever subsides, Tibet will not be a top issue.

The good thing is that on the triple eight day , 8th October 08, there will be more Indians visiting China, some also Tibet(if possible) to see the real myth of Shangri-La. Hopefully the tickets are cheaper largely due this controversy and more Indians can see Olympics in this decade.

Hans were not the only agressors of the world. If you look at Inner Mongolia which China occupies now was an agressor in its own right. Genghis Khan created terror in his time and it is said that 16 million living men carrying his Y-chromosome in Mongolia alone.

Secondly the Han Chinese were not always attackers. Great wall is an excellent testimonial to the attacks from Mancurian, Mongolian and other nomadic tribes. they built the great wall at a great cost. More than 3 million people were employed. Not just one dynasty but several dynasties right from 5th century BC till the seventeenth century.

Till recent as last century, China faced wars over opium, Japan and Russian wars. The way the British used Chinese people and made them addicted to Opium is unparrelled in world. HongKong is testimonial to these wars. The most affected nation in Asia in the world wars was China where millions of Chinese women were raped.
It is important to dialiente the Chinese people from Chinese government. The Chinese people themselves have suffered for ages and even now.
I pity the Han soldiers who are positioned in Tibet.

The way Chinese rulers behaved was complete control over their masses since ancient times. The Forbidden city in Beijing was a real forbidden city akin to Communist regime. Let us not confuse the problem of China to communism. Tibet was always an easy target. In the course of history, Tibet will get independence hopefully by peaceful means.

Meanwhile, let us as Indian masses reach out to both our neigbourly populations (not the government) and create an amicable and cordial atmosphere where trade, peace, culture thrives much like the days of the "Silk route days".

And communists always work to destroy native cultures by `demonising' it as feudalism and many other thousand names.

Yoiu look in India one gang of communists is pretending to be democratic while another gang is having gun in its hands killing innocent people.

Third gand is so called intellectuals who provide a media coverage to attempts to defend the crimes against humanity by communists.

Communists are enemies of developement and hence enemies of poor. Almost factories in meerut Ghaziabad area wherever CITU trade Union domonated has been shut down. Poor loborers are suffering like anything as Modis and other busisnessmen have moved their plants in haryana and Rajasthan where communists trade unions are not able to do that much damage to interest of laborers and farmers.

Let all right thining rational people be clear about this fact that laborers and farmers suffered maximum under communists rules all over the globe. They lost their cultural and civilisational values trusting communists and got nothing in return.

Sridhar is wishing the same to Tibetans.

Muslims also justify invasions of Arabs only because it brought `light of Islam' to India. same way Sridhar is presenting Chinas's illegal occupation of Tibet as `liberation' of Tibetans from Lama who eat just once a day and wear no more then 2 sets of clothes in a year.

Lamas are exploiting poor Tibetans ? hahahhaha
And Invading China is developing Tibeat. Kya baat hai.

Dear Chandra,

You seem to own so little capital to be a capitalist.
But you are entitled to your fantasy.

Sridhar

You have still not condemned the chinese for invading Tibet. This proves beyond doubt that you are a communist. Accept that, you will feel better. Why dont you write a post on your 'coming out' as a communist? :-)

Intrestingly China has praised India's human rights records today. I take it with a pinch of salt.

Indian human rights are still not to a level that they can be praised. India is getting pulled by China in its global game. I mean Chinese government not the people.


China praises India's human rights records
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/china-praises-indias-human-rights-records_10039447.html

come on sridhar. show the courage and speak out what's in your heart and mind honestly.

Accept the truth. Don'nt beat the bush. it is visible from your article that its intention was indirectly justifying the crime against humnaity by communists of china. This article simples menat to `dilute' the support for sufferimng people of Tibet.

No need to be crook Sridhar. be honets and accept the truth. I appreciate Muslims in this intelletual honesty. They opnely never hide their intentions to convert whole humanity to islam and dar ul islam.

Communists on teh other hand are intellectually dishonest and hypocrates. They try to harm the native cultures indirectly like you have done here and slowly prepare ground for communism.

Today they stand exposed bare and people understand their gameplan quite well.

Come on Sridhar, show your honesty here.

Anamika,

What about channel 4- another bastion of champagne socialism?

And you sound so superior spewing your rightwing nonsense. Your mentor Hayek was a clown who wrote a book called The road to serfdom. He empowered the corporation and screwed the individual.

Your grasp of history appears to be shaky.'Or indeed the internecine rivalry between Shia-Sunni justify US occupation of Iraq?

The conflict between the Shia and Sunni broke out after the US occupation of Iraq. It was created and fomented by the so called UK-US allied forces. Remember the divide and rule of the British rule? And also remember Iraq unlike Tibet was a rich country before it was bombed to stone age by the Americans.Afterwards the US freed the Iraqis of their oil fields.

Your friend Dalai Lama has remained a designer protestor all along. This feel good guru has not said anything about Iraq to embarass his paymasters(US). He avoids giving interviews on the subject and instead poses with pop stars.His government which is perpetually in exile has not been recognised by a single government of the world.

So don't bore us with your pompous tirades about history and do something for your friends. For a start go to Tibet dig yourself in the trenches and push back Fu Manchu and the yellow hordes. You would be assisted by Chandra, Atlantean and Man Singh.
Poor Tibet Poor Tibetans!
Ps- It may not be a bad idea to send you back to old Tibet in a Time machine to learn the joys of Lama rule!

Chandra,
I believe commies run soup kitchen for the poor.So why blow your chances for getting the next free meal.

Dungri-La #46

Bhai/bahen Dunrila, you are funny and ridiculing Anamika's sense of History by very `authemtic facts' like "The conflict between the Shia and Sunni broke out after the US occupation of Iraq. It was created and fomented by the so called UK-US allied forces. Remember the divide and rule of the British rule?"

As per my understand Shi and Sunni are fighting since 7th century immediately after death of Mo.

Sunnis brutally muredered grandchildren of Mo to capture caliphate of islam.

Vowww you `enlightened' every reader here Dundrrila by telling `right history' of `shia -sunni conflict'.

what a great sense of history you have Dundrila. What true fact you produced. vah bhai vah.

Dungri-la

What is a soup kitchen?

33% reservation was an idea mooted by USAID to create power lobbies. I have enough links.
http://www.ifes.org/india.html?page=project_113

"Women Power Connect
WomenPowerConnect was born out of a realization that despite substantial grassroots efforts and advocacy, women's groups in India lacked the co-ordination to affect national legislative outcomes. A coordinated national body was needed to professionally lobby Parliament and the Government on women's issues. IFES supported regional meetings in Jharkhand, Goa, Rajasthan, Meghalaya, Karnataka and Chandigarth to build support for WPC and to identify issues of concern for women working in different regions and at different levels. WPC was officially launched at the founding convention in February 2005. Three priority issues for lobbying were chosen:

Domestic violence bill
33% reservation for women in Parliament
Gender-just budgeting
WPC has been registered under the Societies Act and is setting up issue-based committees to provide a focus for initial lobbying activity, plus establishing state chapters and building membership."

@Smita, when were right thinking Indian men against your 33% reservation? It is the modern Ravans (Indian men) who oppose it. If equality is the bane, South Asia has more women presidents/prime ministers than most parts of the world.

I have said time and time that we need 50% reservation for women. Everywhere jobs/politics at home too. Time the greed for money is replaced and problems like female foeticide is attacked than searching a saviour within a man's ability to earn. Women must learn to take more responsibility, think for both sexes than gender compartmentalizing.

Madhu Kishwar, the true women righst leader in India rightly puts the blame on Zealous reformers of India in her recent book.
Laws need to be more gender neutral (using the same 50% concept). More parents need to share their property with their daughters and sons than treating the daughter as "Paraya Dhan". More parents must ensure their daughters are not forced to marry! Such parents must be punished strictly who donot treat their daughters faily. The modern Ravans and feminists are evading it.

The word allegation or "False allegation" cannot be used to torture Indian men in sexual, economic, marital, domestic violence terms. It constitutes the violation of Law. The current law is framed to provide compensation to a victim.
Which right thinking victim will want compensation? Which right thinking vitim will not opt for maximum punishment for the offender. The way it is used to make exortion from Indiam men.

The current Domestic Violence Law is not Gender neutral. Thereby it is violation of basic UN human rights.

To sum it,
More responsibility for women, More rights to women from their own family first, than exorting husbands, no to forced marriages, equal represntation of men in all family laws, more child custody rights for Men, zero tolerance for false cases and effective punishment for women for filing false cases, lesser time to divorce struggles, any divorce settlement with a dowry allegation and no substantiation with dowry taking must be questioned, Indian women can stand on their own two feet than beg their alleged perpectuators, no high profile or huge alimonies( that brings peer pressure), treat Men with equal rights in India and worldwide.

Anamika

'champagne socialist thought' hmmm Interesting.

Do you mean you have to drink cheap wine, have bad breath,and wear frumpy clothes to espouse the cause of socialism?

Spot of good wine never diluted ones revolutionary fervour.

Man Singh:

"As per my understand Shi and Sunni are fighting since 7th century immediately after death of Mo."

Gross generalization that does not apply to contemprary Iraq. It might be "per your understanding" but this understanding is not true. Whatever the situation might have been hundreds of years ago, pre-war Iraq was not the site of conflicts between Shia and Sunni. Members of both communities inter-married, and until recently, it was difficult to find a Shia or a Sunni without any relatives in the other community.

Man Singh:

"As per my understand Shi and Sunni are fighting since 7th century immediately after death of Mo."

Gross generalization that does not apply to contemprary Iraq. It might be "per your understanding" but this understanding is not true. Whatever the situation might have been hundreds of years ago, pre-war Iraq was not the site of conflicts between Shia and Sunni. Members of both communities inter-married, and until recently, it was difficult to find a Shia or a Sunni without any relatives in the other community.

CS # 52 Bhai Commonsense,

Saddam Hussein opressed Shias to a point of no resistence. marriages between Shias and Sunnis ended up with next generatiuon sunni product if one of spouse if Sunni.

Shias every year organise `tazia' to commeorate exteremly brutal murder of grandchildren of Mo by Sunnis and pledge to take revenge and sacrifice their life to regain the Caliphate from Sunnis.

Sunnis on the other hand celebrate it as a festival.

What you said is similar to people telling world about Hindu-Muslim inter religious marriages. Outcome here also is one way traffic. If one of the spouse of Muslims , other has to convert to islam and next generation will be 100% muslims.

This is generalsied trend and not what you are saying.

Akbar the `Great' allowed Jodhabai to reamin Hindu but her children were not? Not even 50-50?

Same way inter shia sunni marriage conclude with next generation sunni wherever sunnis are ruling and shias wherever shias are ruling.

This enemeity between them is permanent. In Lucknow wheer Shias are sizable and sunnis can no more bully them witnesses riots between Shia and sunnis alsmost every year during `Tazia'.

Saddam was opressing Shias. Now Shias are enjoying freedom and their legitimate rights.

Though I never supported American invasion on Iraq. I can feel the pain of Iraqis as being a Hindu I have felt the same pain at the hands of Muslims when they invaded our country and tortured us.

I condemn those barbaric Muslim invaders equally as I condemn America's invasion to Iraq.

Does Muslims have courage to condemn attack by Muslims on India in last 1000 years (as `these invaders brought `light of Islam' to them?)

Even so called seculars have no courage and honesty to equate American invasion to Iraq and Mohamed Bin Qassim's and gazanavi and Gauri's attacks on India?

Do you condemn the two with equal ferver?

If you want a sample what Gazanavi did in India here is refernce from a book written by his own courteier:
(From the accounts of arikh-i-Yamini of Utbi the secretary of Mahmud of Gaznavi)

At Thaneshwar.
"The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously at Thanesar that the stream was discolored, not withstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it. The Sultan returned with plunder which is impossible to count. Praise be to Allah for the honor he bestows on Islam and Muslims."

At Somnath
"The Muslims paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels and worshipers of sun and fire.... The number of infidels killed exceeded 50,000"

At Mathura
"The infidels...deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river...but many of them were slain, taken or drowned... Nearly fifty thousand men were killed."

These are just samples my freinds. Are these any ways less brutal then Amrican attack in Iraq?

I condemn America. Does Muslims and their secular supporters have courage to denounce Muslim invaders to India who brought `light of Islam' here? It is not for the sake for argument my freind, it should come out with conviction.

Man Singh:

"Shias every year organise `tazia' to commeorate exteremly brutal murder of grandchildren of Mo by Sunnis and pledge to take revenge and sacrifice their life to regain the Caliphate from Sunnis."

Anyone with a basic knowledge of this issues knows that that Moharram and its commemoration thru tazias etc. is focussed on the sufferings of the Mo's granchildren who were persecuted by NOT by Sunnis as such but by leaders such as Abu Sufiyan, Yezid and Muawiyah. For your information, in South Asia, and other places, Sunni's also participate in this commemmoration. So, this is hardly the Shia-Sunni divide that you project. Later thekedaars have tried to give it Moharram a Shia vs. Sunni spin, driven as anything else, by politics, power and such.

Second: under Hussein, it is true that the nominal Sunni elite controlled power, but these were not a Sunni group on the religious sense. It was secular government and society, with Sunni and Shia's representing, if you will, two "ethnic groups" who intermarried, did not live in segregated Sunni or Shia areas etc. This divide and hostility is a post-war development. Partly to encourage the newly developed Shia consciousness in a religio-political sense, to counter the prior dominance of the Muslims. An analogy here: the issue in Sri Lanka is not an issue of Hindus vs. Buddhists, but quite another issue of ethnicity that is partly defined by religion.

Man Singh:

""Sunnis on the other hand celebrate it as a festival. (referring to Muharram)

No Sir, you are completely off the mark. A little, potted knowledge, is dangerous. It is unthinkable that Sunnis anywhere would celebrate the killing of the granchildren of Mo. Give me one example of this and I will eat my cyber-hat. Yes, you can use google.

"What you said is similar to people telling world about Hindu-Muslim inter religious marriages. Outcome here also is one way traffic. If one of the spouse of Muslims , other has to convert to islam and next generation will be 100% muslims."

Same way inter shia sunni marriage conclude with next generation sunni wherever sunnis are ruling and shias wherever shias are ruling.""

Again, completely wrong. It is a patrilineal system of kinship. Whatever happens to be the faith of the FATHER becomes the faith of the family. Sunni or Shia does not matter. This was the reality in Iraq vis-a-vis these two sects. This was the case in Iraq. The american spin is of course that now that Shias are getting their dues...a dangerous spin since Iran also pushes this line and the country is influenced by Iran more than the Amrican occupiers wish it to...However the shia-sunni conflict in someways is of course an ongoing issue elsewhere.

Besides, this issue is WAY OFF TOPIC! Partly because you bring in all kind of irrelevant stuff to make your point...

Sridhar, fellow comrade Iam very disappointed with your extremely insensitive hurtful remark to Chandra, who might have genuine reasons to feel aggrieved about us, Lefties. Sridhar you have disappointed the ilks of us, 'gentrified left' who love to forgive the likes of Chandra who might just be angry, and you should exude compassion. A lot of the old guard feel awfully touched when you attack 'proletariats' like Chandra, after all we do believe in their tyranny and dictatorship. So Sridhar you should be nice and compassionate and hug Chandra and be nice to Anamika. Well Anamika you are right about Champagne, but its not my fault that my family had the best champagne cellars in town, went to chateaus for vacation in wine valley of France BUT I learnt socialism in the university campuses, where I felt dismay and shock at the poverty and depravation, so I turned against my family. But honestly I couldnt take the authoritarian pretensions of my family so I had to protest. Hey I would love to drink cheap beer in Bangalore dodgy pubs with proletariats like Chandra and use foul language against the commies. Chandra, as a ardent left I completely agree with your views about these jerks, Iam turning middle now. the NEW LABOUR, NEW LEFT ....Want to join in dismantling these radical left!! But please uncle Chandra keep, keep the estate-owning gentry left intact!!

A SPECIAL TRIBUTE AND HONOUR TO SRIDHAR:
You know you had it right im midst of that motley crowd of fukcing clerks of SBI, some of whom spoke a mattering of german/FRENCH, in that BANGALORE cafe' abt the British raj; a [EDITED- BLATHER]

correction - The novel Shangri-La was written by James Hilton and not Ronald Colman who acted in the movie.
Thanks to Sunil Murthy for the correction.

Standing ovasion to Mr Sridhar:-

This one is to not only appreciate your literary brillaince in all your articles but also to LOUDLY remind some stingy capitalist remarkers about article 19 of the Constitution of india which protects people's right to speech & expression and well am sure the brave heart will continue the good work coming in....

There is another question to all of them judging the author for writing this article in his AC chambers which looks more like a fit of envy brought out through power cuts in their areas....has these comments been posted sitting in the warfronts of afganistan which gives them a locus standi to be commenting on the author for not knwoign the real world's picture....???

And all the Followers n non-followers-but-believers of Dalai Lama are please requested to be a little more avidly read about history to learn the value of true leaders of peace n tranquility in the society e.g. Sir Martin Luther King Jr. & also John Lennon of the famour Beatles....

Dear Sridhar,

I don't know about the assertions made in your article, but you made this comment above:

"...instead of trying to discredit my articles you would be well advised to take a close look at your spiritual guru Dalai Lama who has issued pretty tough statements on sexual conformity.It should send a chill down your spine."

Do you have references to such statements allegedly made by Dalai Lama. The ones I found hardly sent a chill down my spine.

Regards,

Ravi

Further to ravi's (#61) assertion, what way stetement of dalai lama related to homosexuality is related to China's occupation of Tibet?

Is china a nation of homosexuals and that's why feeling offended by lama's statement or Sridhar himself is so and that's why angry with lama and hence wrote this article?

Bhai CS # 56

I am sure you are aware of the fact that famous battle of Karbala ended on Muharram 10, 52 AH (680AD) Grand Son of Mo was brutally muredered by Sunnis for political power caliphate.

Shias mourn his death and blead themselves by beating themselves with chains, blades and chhuras.

Sunnis were winners. they also celebrate the same day by fasting (as ramadan celebrations). But crookedly they tell the cause of celebration as day on which Moses liberated jews from Egyptins' slavery and hide the reality.

internet is flooded with history of battle of Karbala and its senseless to copy and paste some links.

This enemity will end my friend. It is eternal.

For marriage as a tool for conversion, Malaysia is an excellent case history to disapprove your theory of paternal lineage.

Non Muslim boy married a Muslim girl Bot need to convert to islam.

Muslim boy married a non muslim girl again non muslim girl has to convert. And that's why most of influential muslims always try to marry non muslim women with an aim to convert the rest of generations a women can produce.

As per Shariyat law a marriage of a Muslim with non muslim is `haram' and hence qazi will never perform marraige if both are not Muslims.

You can check with any Qazi in your area to verify.

The marriage of Christian man to a Muslim woman is an invalid marriage. Allah says in the Quran:

And give not (Muslim women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe [al-Baqara 221]

Therefore, it is not allowed for disbeliever to marry a Muslim woman. Allah also says,

They (Muslim women) are not lawful for them (the disbelivers) nor are they (the disbeliever) lawful for them [al-Mumtahana 10]

here is a very scholarly opinion for everybody to understand:
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/intermarriage.html

Dear Ravi,
The Dalai Lama opposes sexual freedom. In fact, his position reminds you of the orthodox fanatics of the catholic church. To quote'"A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it," the Dalai Lama continues, warming to his theme. "But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other holes don't create life. I don't mind - but I can't condone this way of life."

The point is Dalai is opposed to anal,oral and gay relationship. In short he condemns any sex that is not for reproduction.

Dear Ravi,
Even though Buddhism advocates tolerance in all matters sexual the Tibetan school of Buddhism is especially intolerant of gay relationship. As an article on Buddhism and Homosexuality points out:

'Many women, gays and lesbians have been attracted to Buddhism because of its relative lack of misogyny and homophobia, when compared to some other religions. But others report "virulently anti-gay sentiments and teachings from religious teachers in Tibetan and other Buddhist" schools.'

Bhai Man Singh,

The torture of reading your posts is more painful than what the Tibetans endured under the Chinese occupation of Tibet.

Dear Neha,

Thanks for your kind comments.

The Dalai Lama is morally evasive when it comes to other vicious wars declared in Iraq, Vietnam etc by uncle Sam.

As champion of non-violence he is highly suspect as he condoned US war on Vietnam as being fought for good reasons.As a post in Democratic underground.com sums up:

'He is not comparable to religious leaders like Oscar Romero or Martin Luther King Jr., who seriously and consistently fought for the liberation of oppressed people and were willing to sharply criticize and effectively oppose the overall systems that supported them.'

The danger of adopting moral relativism is obvious: The Chinese could also say with conviction that the occupation of Tibet was for good reasons,ie, for the overthrow of the corrupt feudal theocracy which the Dalai Lama represents. A point conveniently ignored by the supporters of Dalai Lama.

sridhar #66:

Our client has brought it to our attention that in the garb of humour you have irreparably maligned his character, questioned his faith and purpose (if any).

On his behalf we demand an immediate retraction of your comments and an unconditional apology. Also you are requested to stay 2000 cms, metres or yards whichever is farther from our client.

cyber delivered this 26th day of April two thousand eight years after the jew was crossed.

signed

M/s Chandrasekhar, Rutgenstein, Apollonius, and Parsimonelli

Dear Sridhar,

All Dalai Lama has done is to express an opinion. It is far from sending "a chill down my spine". He has not condemned that practice as a sin, nor prescribed a punishment for anyone indulging in it. He is saying that it is not natural, because it does not promote the primary aim of sexual intercourse, namely reproduction. "I don't mind, but I don't condone it" does not sound condemnation to me.

Religious orthodoxy can be bad, and I am sure Tibetan version of Buddhism is no exception. I have read a little bit of Tibetan mythology regarding Buddha, and it is as ridiculous as the next. But Dalai Lama is an extraordinary man. You should read his recent interview in Time with Pico Iyer:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/6b4hgq

To accuse him of bigotry of any kind is plain wrong. I believe you wanted to provide an objective critique of Tibet and its struggle with China. By exaggerating Dalai Lama's views on sexuality you have weakened your own case.

Regards,

Ravi

My previous link was to second page of the article on Dalai Lama. Here is one to the first page:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/693vvx

Ravi

Ravi Kulkarni

"I don't mind, but I don't condone it" does not sound condemnation to me.

How DARE you question a Communist's logic? How DARE you! How DARE you! Who gave you the power or the right to do that! Whatever a Communist asserts or says is always dead right - yesterday, today, tomorrow, on earth or on Gliese 581C, any damn place or time - irrespective of small irrelevancies like logic or fact.

NEVER question a Communist! For he's the fountainhead of ALL TRUTH, ALL FACT, ALL LOGIC. By virtue of this property, a Communist speaking lies is a meaningless proposition because it does not exist, just like 1 divided by 0 is meaningless and cannot happen. And dont even think of accusing Communists of distorting facts or using sinuous logic. Those things dont exist either. For... remember, a Communist is the fountainhead of ALL TRUTH, ALL FACT, ALL LOGIC!

The idea that the chinese are somehow sanguine is really funny. My chinese friends donot think that way . Interestingly, how many Indians think that we are saints in Kashmir?

Sridhar # 66

That happens. Associates of dacoits attacking my village also used to harras usexactly the same way in their zeal to pacify villager's anger againt invading dacoits.

That's why I was not surprised at your statement as I am used to it. But one fine day few of my freinds in my village got togather and took a resolution to beat back the dacoits next time they attack. before that we made sure that local associates were beaten first.

We did it. Dacoits and their associates were exposed. Since that day none could attack my village.

It is a different matter that police arrested me and my freinds and judge somehow released us.

What I say is ground reality my freind based on my personal experince of how natives suffer at the hands of agressors and not based on certain google references or news reports written in an Air conditioned room.

I know minds infected by Macauley virus find it hard to digest the ground realities as they have become habitual of contaminating the truth by addition imagination to events.

Be bold to confess Sridhar that you are a communist and wrote this letter to dilute support for suffering Tibetans at the hands of tyrant chinese dictators.

Dear Chandra,
'Interestingly, how many Indians think that we are saints in Kashmir?'

Quite a number of Indians believe that we can do no wrong in Kashmir. Of course whether it is delusional on our part to believe that our government can do no wrong is another issue.

Sridhar #74

Kashmir is a separatist movement by Muslims of kashmir not by any non muslims.

Muslims demanded separate homeland in during freedom movement and for their population of 24% Total 28% of total land was given to them in the name of Islam.

Therefore land for Muslims of the subcontinent has been already given to them and if they are not happy here they should go to their fair share of land given to them in 1947 itself.

Above all Kashmiri Hindus Sikhs and Budhsist has been kicked out of valley. Now what India did wrong to mashmiri Muslims?

India did a wrong thing that it could not protect the dignity of its citizens plundererd by jehadis terrorists.

Opposite to that Tibet has been forcibly occupied by Chines dictators and chinese hans are being settled there to make Tibetans minority in their own territory.

Communists as usual act as champions of foreign invaders and againt India's interests.

Tell me even a single thought, action or move by any communist leader of India that is for India and to strenghen India.

Communists condemn when India does a nuclear blast. But the same communists support Iran's right to carry out a nuclear blast.

Communist condemn India's attempts to have nuclear deal with USA only because China has not given green sugnal to them.

Clearly Commies act as dalals of china and your article here is just another proof what for you stand ie Anti Indian civilisational values and champion invaders.

Man Sing Bhai,
Nice to know that you are a bulwark against commies like me.Keep up with the good work.

Atlantean,

You appear to be in a time warp. You sound like Senator McCarthy who accused even the US army of being commies. Poor guy! He was certified as insane and shut up in a loony bin.

Dear Ravi,

The Dalai Lama issued pronouncements on sexual issues, which caused grave concern to the gay community. I have excerpted an quote from an article on this point:

"The meeting with lesbians and gays followed a January 1996 report by the Bay Area Reporter that detailed an open letter by Buddhist AIDS Project coordinator Steve Peskind, asking the world-revered spiritual leader of millions of Buddhists to publicly clarify his published contradictory statements on homosexuality.

Peskind said that he was motivated by concern about the violence and harm caused to lesbian and gays around the world through pronouncements against homosexual sexual activity by Buddhist religious leaders such as the Dalai Lama."

So while it is true that Buddhism does not advocate sexual intolerance, the Dalai Lama has come out making statements which promotes intolerance to gay couples. His other views on sexual matters match the views of Christian fundamentalist organisations.

I made the remark to Chandra in a post pointing out that the Dalai is not as liberal as he appears to be in news media. It was not a part of the main article.Incidentally, the expression ' chill down the spine'is perfectly justified as his views as the spiritual leader emboldens other organizations to attack gay couples with impunity.

Your citation of Picco Iyer's article in Time Magazine about the Dalai does not provide any authoritative source as Picco is a travel writer and not a professional historian on Tibet.

To weaken my case on Tibet you have to refute my main point that old Tibet was not a Shangri-La and all the authorities appended at the end of my article establish the case that the Lama rule was indeed repressive. You would find it interesting to know that in Lhasa (Tibet)there is a museum which preserves the grisly history of Lama torture.I am soberly measuring my words when i say it would senda chill down your spine.

Time, Newsweek, CNN and even the BBC have selected certain facts about Tibet convenient to biased reporting.Their reporting on the Iraq war and the WMD issue was shameful.

Dear Temporal,
I shall abide by your wishes and stay clear of Man Singh.

Bhai Sridhar #79

Muh Chhipane se sachai nahi chhip sakti.

Come up with facts to prove that any communist till date supported any developemental project in India. They always opposed any move by anybody that tries to make India strong because poverty and illetracy are the most fertile breeding ground for their ideology and hence they want to make sure people remain weka poor and illetral. Of course they wear the mask of `people's welfare' only to achive their goal of destroying native cultural values and impose barbaric dictatorial teachi