Desicritics Comments on Islamic Lynch Mob Hounds Taslima Nasrin: In the Footsteps of the Prophet

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Comment by Anamik

Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:58:03 EST

Just wanted to point out that just as the Bible is not the SOLE arbiter and expression of Christian thought/belief over 2000 years, neither is the Quran for the Muslims. Yes, the fundamentalist Christians believe every word of the New Testament as literal truth, just as fundamentalist Muslims do for the Quran. To believe in literalist interpretation denies the 1400 years of "Islamic" literary and philosophical traditions. Here - as a meagre example goes a line by one of my favourite poets, Iqbal: dard-e-dil ke vaaste paidaa kiyaa insaan ko, varnaa taa'at ke liye kuch kam naa the karubiyaan

Comment by Ledzius

Tue, 4 Dec 2007 01:15:24 EST

"How common do you think either of these are? Some numbers to explain your agitation would be nice." This is the second time the issue of numbers has been brought up on this topic. Like someone who argued before that gaining the max. number of converts is supposed to make the religion great. I am actually glad that the number is low. At least that means there is some semblance of sanity left in the masses despite what the book says. But if you believe that the book is the word of God, then you shouldn't look for the numbers, should you?

Comment by Morris

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:17:27 EST

If there is such thing as group inferiority complex, followers of Islam must suffer more than all other. Any negative comment about their religion, prophet or Koran can create violent reaction. Perhaps they know that there is'nt very much they can defend. Even those who are not violent will refuse to admit the problem and all they could do is point out shortcomings of others. It would be nice if we all admitted our shortcomings and discuss the necessary reforms.

Comment by temporal

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:45:13 EST

ruvy: haqq (A) adj: Just: right: true n.m. The truth: The Deity: God: justice: equity:rectitude: right: due: just:claim:duty as an adjective we can say haqq is denied the Palestinians by the Occupiers ;) salaam!

Comment by temporal

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:37:06 EST

mike: #76:) Jay: think of it as ONE of the universal truths and not the ONLY truth:)

Comment by Sam

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:20:09 EST

"Islam is anti-family values. One example is the triple-talaq which would grant a man instant divorce. Even if he had uttered it in anger and regrets it later, the divorce is a done deal. They can come back together only after both get married to others and consummate those marriages! When there are court ordered reconciliation sessions in civilised judicial systems, Islam wants them out with no chance of recourse. Sick, imo." How common do you think either of these are? Some numbers to explain your agitation would be nice.

Comment by Saif

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:04:58 EST

Ledzius #81, "And I don't want to hear apologists say the Quran didn't mean that, it is a problem of interpretation." Ledzius it is quiet dictatorial, If you are on blog my friend you have to hear, even if it is not in tone with you, or else close yourself with few of your Islamic hater types. I am sure somebody on this blog would give you a good reply to that, if you are open minded you will debate that, but if your real intention is to hate Islam then nobody can help you. Do you know the lowest divorce rate in India and in the whole world is in Muslim societies, so how could you say that Islam is antifamily. Do you know in US about 30-50% marriages ends in divorce, with all those reconciliation processes. I hope some apologist will reply you,

Comment by Ledzius

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:54:53 EST

Islam is anti-family values. One example is the triple-talaq which would grant a man instant divorce. Even if he had uttered it in anger and regrets it later, the divorce is a done deal. They can come back together only after both get married to others and consummate those marriages! When there are court ordered reconciliation sessions in civilised judicial systems, Islam wants them out with no chance of recourse. Sick, imo. And I don't want to hear apologists say the Quran didn't mean that, it is a problem of interpretation. It doesn't matter. If there are so many problems with the interpretations of a text,the logical conclusion is that there is a problem with the text itself.

Comment by Ruvy in Jerusalem

Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:43:19 EST

haqooq ul ibad has a preference over haqooq allah.... Temporal, Can you provide a translation, please? My gut tells me that haqooq has something to do with law (Hebrew cognate Hoq?), but I'm not at all sure.

Comment by Erron

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:15:51 EST

Islam seems to be the only religion, Judaism notwithstanding that refuses to adapt to modern times and forego the practices of a less enlightened time. Women's rights, equality only in name, violent punishments for trivial crimes, are but a few of the issues Islam has to address in its own turf, leave alone globally.

Comment by Raza Rumi

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:03:04 EST

Mike, thanks for your comments here. Indeed, the teachings of Islam and the Quran were distorted--- Alamgir: what's this fuss all about - yes we all know that Kaaba was a pagan temple but it was also something before..And, what do you think happened with other Abrahamic religions.. You are simply biased and rigid ironically like a fundamentalist. You will cite obscure texts and use the orientalist lens to view a massive religion and movement - what a pity!

Comment by Jawahara

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:23:16 EST

Isn't it an entirely flawed premise that something is a universal religion if it can be so changed via a translation? Just as those other translations brought in their bias (which also happened with the King James Bible, of course) won't any other translation (based on peace and good will, for instance) be more a refection of the translator and not the actual text? Just curious!

Comment by temporal

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:28:48 EST

mike: there are enough translations floating around - not enough readers;) (however good luck to you!) the important thing is only this imho: haqooq ul ibad has a preference over haqooq allah once this message is drilled home then ...and only then will muslims learn to co-exist with others life and living is not my-way or the hi-way...it is (a)about peace within leading to (b)peaceful coexistence with others (others includes those who subscribe to other faiths, creeds and those who do not profess any faith like atheists and agnostics)

Comment by Mike Ghouse

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:36:39 EST

Temporal, The frightened kings of Europe figured out a way to stop the Arab Armies (Kings were Kings, religions was not important to them for practice, but for looting it was) from taking them over... recruited the pope to issue a fatwa that they are anti-christ, and the paid the goons to translate, rather mistranslate Qur'aan to show to their people that Muslims and Jews wer infidels and it is their duty to go and slaughter them. Much of the knowledge of Qur'aan that has become the basis of neo-cons, including Alamgir is based on those mis-translations. The words of Quraan are same, but the translation was deliberately written to malign Islam... in effect the Kings were invading Europe. Even those Kings (Muslim ones) mis translated Qur'aan to ge their sheep to go get martyred for them. A good game on both sides. Today, there are thousands of neocons and websites out there based on a total wrong foundation. There are sixteen translations available now, some of them are off... Read Mohamed Asad's translation, it is close to the essence of what religion was meant to be... to mitigage conflicts and foster goodwill. God willing, I am working on translations of Quran in that light. If some oneelse does before me, I will thank them for that. Any one out to create a wedge, build hate towards other people instead of goodwill, has problems. They are not genuine truth seekers, they are for cashing on the fear. Mike Ghouse

Comment by temporal

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:36:04 EST

alamgir: frothings and diatribes aside the facts can be ascertained and the final criteria remains qur'an even the euro-centric writer's obscure texts quoted by murtids are based on the two or three writers from early islam that is why i suspect the 'scholarship' of ralkotites is merely tunnel visioned venom

Comment by Alamgir Hussain

Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:58:51 EST

Ya, Quarn is that perfect guidance to human life but all else the Sunnah (hadith) and Prophet's life history are all corrupt. The problem is that these educated modern Muslims, who damn these sources, have little to no knowledge about these texts and may not even have copy on their book-shelfs. However, the fact is that Islam survived for 14 centuries based on all these sources and not a crow, especially the pious and scholars of Islam, made a noise about it. They were revered than damned well into the mid-20th century. Even today, mostly those Muslims, who are exposed to modernist liberal values and ideas, raise complaints about these text. The pious still revere them. And now even those translators, who belong to non-Muslim backgrounds, are also being demonized. Every non-Muslim reseracher is out there to screw up Islam. That is the way modern educated Muslim thinking goes. One must wonder where does this on-going Muslim-nonMuslim conflict arises from. Why don't Muslims themselves do a translation to correct the corruptions introduced by Western scholars. Instead, they buy those corrupted translations and publish them from Pakistan and other Muslim countries for spreading the glory of those texts. It appears that not a single Muslim in the world understands Arabic and able to do correct translations of them. BTW, Quran, the book of indisputable eternal guidance, also talks about how Muslim's should marry the wives of their adopted sons. That's should make a indisputable eternal guidance for mankind, too. Quran is probably the more accurate biography of Muhammad. There could be some discrepancy in hadiths, but those non-Sahih ones have been excluded from all major hadith compilations. Only those ones that conform to the Quran are retained. Moreover, Muhammad annihilated the Idolaters from Arabia not by reading the hadiths or his biography written by these allegedly obscure and crooked scholars. There is no dispute that Ka'ba was a sacred idol-temple of the Pagans of Arabia, which Muhammad destoryed and usurped in barbaric manner.

Comment by kerty

Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:28:47 EST

Farhan... Numbers game can be played any number of ways. -Reducing the numbers of opponents by ethnic clensing, forced conversions, genocides, warfare, patronizing ideologies that encourage abortions and smaller family size -Increasing one's own side by aggressive family size, proslytizing Relying on aggressive reproduction gives one captive constituency that dutifully tags along the faith of parents. All religions rely on this to maintain their numbers - but some more so than others. Why engage in hard work of proslytizations and conversions when all it takes is to have few extra wives and few extra babies in the family? Depopulate the infidels and populate the planet with faithfuls and fundamentalists will do the rest to keep the faithful in line. That will work too.

Comment by Farhan

Sat, 1 Dec 2007 19:09:38 EST

Well I did not say that, how can you figure out others mentality, I just said that number does matter. Well Islam is proselytizing religion, so it does count conversions.

Comment by razorMirage

Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:33:37 EST

Farhan... You are right on ! This is the same mentality in which Islam expanded. Thanks for admiting.

Comment by Farhan

Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:05:33 EST

Kerty and Razormirage : Numbers do have value, that is why Sangh Parivar statisticians are worried and doing their own maths to show that a Muslim majority is a possibility, Israel will be forced to peace because of the numbers on opposite sides. It is the numbers in Assam and Nagaland that may change the political structure in India, it is the numbers that forced France not to jump in Iraq war...So number counts.... That is why I said Allhamdullilah in my last comment( if you don't know the meaning of Allhamdullilah as a Muslim friend,.... I don't think you guys keep one)