NEWS

The Woman, the Witch and the Goddess

October 10, 2007
Becky Band

This story is both old and new, traditional and modern. The scapegoating, finger-pointing and name-calling of those who are different, those who threaten the social order, those who happen to have a female face. In the past two months, there have been at least two instances of witch lynching in India reported in the mainstream media; I wonder how many more have gone unnoticed. The most recent one was in Bihar. A 60-year old tribal woman was accused by villagers in Bihar of practicing witchcraft and beaten to death by them. Apparently, her ’spells’ couldn’t cure their mindsets.

A witchcraft practitioner identified her as the one who was responsible for all maladies of the village.

A case has been registered against six villagers under the Prevention of Witchcraft Practices Act. No arrest has been yet.

I wasn’t aware that there was such an Act; Bihar’s is the first of its kind, passed in 1999. The name of this Act is pretty strange and belies the fact that it’s meant to protect those accused of witchcraft and punish the offending name-callers and abusers. A Jharkhand NGO, Free Legal Aid Committee (FLAC), campaigns against the practice of witch-hunting and offers aid to those accused.

An article at OneWorld South Asia explains how, unsurprisingly, old, widowed, or otherwise unprotected women are more vulnerable to accusations of witchcraft. It sounds too familiar — those who are not conforming in some way become targets.

Superstition is often the chief reason. This factor is strongly linked to the lack of medical care and awareness in rural areas. In absence of health care facilities, there is exploitation by ‘ojhas’ or witch doctors who profit from the villagers’ ignorance.

Land grabbing, property disputes and revenge are other major causes behind such accusations in most states. The above examples reflect that such labelling has become a common form of violence against women. It is now a pretext for suppressing women and gaining personal interests.

In many backward districts of Rajasthan, such as Dungarpur, Banswara, Kota, Udaipur, Tonk, Chittorgarh and Bhilwara, it has been observed that women who are mentally ill or show abnormal behaviour are often branded as witches and ill treated by society.

This issue is a very complex one: the co-mingling of ignorance and fear, greed and malignance. It sounds only too similar to all the dowry-related stories, be it harassment or death. One side, the majority, seeks to wield power over the weaker party.

It’s a coincidence that I just finished reading Paulo Coelho’s new book, The Witch of Portobello. For those of you familiar with his work, you may know that it is always of a mystical and penetrating quality despite his simple style. As a feminist, I am quite fascinated by the emergence of a distinct literary curiosity with goddess worship — Dan Brown’s fabulously popular The Da Vinci Code would also fall in this category. Could one go so far as to say that people are seeking alternatives to the paradigm of male domination on a large scale?

That’s what Coelho seems to be insinuating, at least to some extent. It is on the one hand, a response to the violence and destruction enacted in the name of organised religion and that male, all-powerful God. On the other hand, it is an appreciation, a re-valuation of the feminine as sacred, of the creative force as a motherly one. I realise this dichotomy is not entirely incompatible with Hinduism, which boasts many female goddesses. However it is interesting to see how this worship on a spiritual plane translates into reality.

From the gender perspective, it is difficult to get into the terrain of feminine=motherly, because this tends to stick women in restrictive roles and responsibilities with a lack of options. (Then again, perhaps these roles are only restrictive because society at large doesn’t attribute them with the worth that they’re due?) At any rate, I have difficulty rationalising an appreciation of feminine qualities — maternal or otherwise — because I am wary of gender roles. They usually tend to be more limiting than liberating. One passage in the book is particularly relevant here:

There are women who say: “I’m not going to do the washing up, let the men do it.” Fine, let the men do it if they want to, but that has nothing to do with equality. There’s nothing wrong with doing simple things, although if I were to publish an article tomorrow saying everything I think; I’d be accused of working against the feminist cause. Nonsense! As if washing up or wearing a bra or having someone open or close a door could be humiliating to me as a woman. The fact is, I love it when a man opens the door for me. According to etiquette this means: “She needs me to do this because she’s fragile,” but in my soul is written: “I’m being treated like a goddess. I’m a queen.” I’m not here to work for the feminist cause, because both men and women are a manifestation of the Mother, the Divine Unity. No one can be greater than that.’ (p182)

Without going into the details of the plot (because I do recommend reading this book), I’d like to bring up several points for discussion. If simple things are fine and good, then why do men get to do them less than women? Why do they get to go out, have fancy jobs and power and make the women do the housework? Also, most feminists say that gender equality would benefit both men and women, but the popular perception is that feminists are anti-men. And lastly, how is one to convince men that gender equality is in their favour, when they may be content with the way things are currently?

Rebecca Band has been in India for over a year working in the development sector. She spent six months in Bangalore with IT for Change, and is now based in Jaipur working at CUTS as a gender specialist of sorts. In her free time she enjoys dancing, doing yoga, working on her blog, and, of course, blabbing.
eXTReMe Tracker
Keep reading for comments on this article and add some feedback of your own!

Comments! Feedback! Speak and be heard!

Comment on this article or leave feedback for the author

#1
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 10, 2007
10:05 AM

Witch hunting is a common phenomena in Indian villages. My maid hails from a village in Tamil Nadu and she once told me that generally the villagers don't take their sick kids to the nearby government hospital instead they call the local 'witch doctor' to exorcise the sick kid.

Many urban north Indians believe when kids get Chicken pox they are visited by the 'Mata'. I was once berated for talking about setting up a Chicken pox Mata temple;)

In Bangalore there is the myth of a witch who visits the city. Last time 'she' visited was in 1996. I'm sure there are Bangaloreans who can tell the tale;)

In Delhi a few years back there was mass hysteria about a jumping monkey man.

Our villagers aren't the only ones prone to fall for such outlandish myths;)



#2
Aaman
URL
October 10, 2007
10:24 AM

That monkey man's coming back, I hear, to protest against the proposed demolition of the Ramasetu:)

#3
DesiGirl
URL
October 10, 2007
11:32 AM

Dee,
Even in Tamil Nadu, chicken pox is 'revered' so. The oldies almost passed out when I told them that I had liberally poured lotion on P's itchy limbs and body, given him Calpol etc when he had pox earlier this year. I remember when I had it, there was this palaver about not dusting the house till the 'third watering ceremony' - I was 'given' a bath only 3 days during those 2 weeks of quarantine. in Madras! I was glad it wasnt during peak summer.

#4
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 10, 2007
11:38 AM

I guess if you did what I did for both my kids that would have sent them into an apoplectic rage- chicken pox vaccines;)

#5
Aaman
URL
October 10, 2007
11:46 AM

Anyone has a link to the text of the Witchcraft Act? Most of them are on the NIC portal, but I can't find this one.

#6
PH
URL
October 10, 2007
01:02 PM

LOL, @ # 2

#7
annamma
October 11, 2007
01:23 AM

Rebecca, your last question was perhaps the most important - and i haven't a clue as to what the answer is.

How, how, how does one make men realise that gender equality will set THEM free, too, from all the stupid stereotypes?

If women tell them, they resent it - because they can learn nothing from women. If another man tells them, they think the man is a wimp. Its a no-win situation.

#8
smallsquirrel
October 11, 2007
03:12 AM

yes, the popular perception here is that feminists are anti-men. not sure how that bit started, but I suppose change is difficult for all involved, and no one really enjoys the process.

thanks for the link to my piece on your site. wanted to comment but don't have a wordpress account.

#9
ravi
October 11, 2007
07:36 AM

small squirrel

!!!!the popular perception here is that feminists are anti-men. not sure how that bit started, but I suppose change is difficult for all involved, and no one really enjoys the process.!!!!!!

we should have to understand feminists by their actions not by their words. If you observe the actions that feminist taking to solve problems you find why some people had to get that conclusion.

#10
ravi
October 11, 2007
07:37 AM

oh! sorry for my english. try to understand.

#11
Becky
URL
October 11, 2007
07:46 AM

So, Ravi, what actions are you talking about exactly?

#12
Jawahara
URL
October 11, 2007
07:47 AM

Wow! Amazing! Especially in light of the research into the Salem witch trials, where it was either single women with property, or if they had a grudge against them or generally defenceless women (and some very few men) who were tortured and killed for being witches. And, of course, the property went to the powerful men in town.

And secondly, of course, there is some writing on ancient religions (now classified as witchcraft, etc.) were based on the divine feminine and balance in the natural world...that were destroyed when the more militant, dynamic religions with their male gods came along.

But apart from all of that it is sad that this happening in these times.

So, if all feminists are anti-men, does it mean that men who oppose feminism are all anti-women? Hmmm...

#13
smallsquirrel
October 11, 2007
07:47 AM

well ravi... I think that groups like SIFF just stir up trouble and blame feminists for things they have no control over. (like their own marriages breaking up) feminism is not some mass conspiracy to make men down-trodden. that is the brick of shit being force-fed to people here, and its not the truth. the truth is that real feminists do not support anyone being valued less than the other.

#14
ravi
October 11, 2007
08:33 AM

small squirrel

First of all i have to clearly say that, i haven't posted #9 on behalf of SIFF. It just my feeling.so no need to take the SIFF into the topic.

!!!real feminists do not support anyone being valued less than the other.!!!!!

that's what i am saying SS, if you see the theory of feminists, it is absolutely perfect. But no one follow the theory. It just remains in books, and paper presentations, seminars. But What make the feminists most hatred people for men(of course not all) is they concentrate on the woman issue only(not bad) and they ignore everything that causes harm to others(very bad).which is also against their principles in books.

beckey, actions means here everything may be a law proposed by them, male bashing by them, or some sort of anti-men statements given by them(just look into papers,you will find these).

jawahara..against feminism doesn't mean anti-woman. because feminists says "men-for every thing", anti-feminist says "feminist-for every thing, not woman", so your assumption is wrong.

finally, i have to admit all feminists are not alike. there is classification like liberals and radicals(not according to the history).

#15
Sumanth
October 11, 2007
03:56 PM

Jawahara, Becky and others,

Do not feminists claim that men oppressed women for ages?

Is it true?
It is false?
Is it half truth?

What happens to a young girl, when she reads that men oppressed women for ages? She hates men.

Do "some" feminists hate men or not?

Men fought against a violence nature for ages and shielded women, children and the sick. Through domino effect, some of violence trickled into the inner core, which feminists claim as oppression. The fact remains that men never had any better life than women ever in last 5000 years.

"Some" feminists hate men? They think it is a power game. In fact, it is politically correct to blame and hate men.

"Some" of the people who oppose feminists have to be "Anti-women" or "women-haters".

That is part of nature and its reflection process. If society could tolerate people who hate males, then it should better tolerate men who hate women.

Just the way, a young woman, who got raped can hate men all through her life, the same way a young man getting victimised by a woman can hate women in his whole life.

I personally feel, there is little accountability in what feminists say, do or claim. Feminists are also logically and mathematically challenged. Otherwise, how can they create so much of unconsistent data and statistics?


Smallsquirrel,

People will always invent excuses to blame feminism and feminists. It happened in US and it will happen in India. Feminists being extremely righteous are good in creating enemies. What do you think these enemies will do? Give donations to feminists?



#16
DamnedAmerican
October 11, 2007
07:10 PM

What a brutal country India must be! Villages killing their elderly as "witches", facist political parties destroying internet cafes over criticism, riots with every election, the Dalit caste. No wonder my country's businesses are all outsourcing over there. India is just begging to be exploited and manipulated.

#17
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 12, 2007
12:09 AM

DamnedAmerican, why do I get the feeling you are an avid LouDobb fan? Nah, we ain't stupid just as Americans are greedy, lazy, red necked consumerists.

#18
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
01:31 AM

no sumanth.. women who get raped usually do not hate all men their whole lives. they hate that one man in particular. which is what you men need to learn. that feminists are not "men haters" as you call us. oh whatever, why am I bothering... you never ever ever ever listen.

damnedamerican.. hey, punk, why don't you come here and say that?

it's not like I didn't see equally ridiculous shit in the US. politicians demanding statues with breasts be removed from public view. mass shootings at school campuses. huge outbreaks of e.coli in food. a completely broken healthcare system. what say now?

#19
Becky
URL
October 12, 2007
01:46 AM

Thanks for that, smallsquirrel. It's amazing how these prejudices are being brought into the discussion, such black and white thinking. No matter that the Salem witch trials took place in the good 'ole US of A. Seems like feminists aren't the only ones who are 'logically challenged'... ;) LOL

#20
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 12, 2007
02:12 AM

typing error- aren't instead of are;) Still hadn't had my morning tea at the time

#21
blokesablogin
URL
October 12, 2007
02:29 AM

Becky- I am yet to understand this whole male-female stuff. I honestly don't care who does the dishes as long as it gets done and the sink doesn't stink!! Coming to gods and goddesses, I like them hermophrodite too- like ardhanaarishwar! As for daayans/ witches- it shows the lack of basic "education"- I don't mean plain literacy, education that hopefully engenders wisdom. Obviously these incidents show a total lack of wisdom in these places.

#22
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
02:59 AM

Smallsquirrel,

You wrote:
"no sumanth.. women who get raped usually do not hate all men their whole lives. they hate that one man in particular. which is what you men need to learn. that feminists are not "men haters" as you call us. oh whatever, why am I bothering... you never ever ever ever listen."

That is your view. Your views are not universal truths. Same way my views are also not universal truths.

Please tell me, do feminists listen?

When 3150 women get murdered in US every year compared to only 7900 women in India (where as India has 4 times more population), still anti-national feminists are hell bent in defaming India all over the world just to satisfy some of their personal agendas.

Every single Indian, who goes to US or other countries is told, in your country women are burnt after their husbands die and young women are burnt, if they do not bring dowry. Indians are so brainwashed with this shit, that they agree,"Yes, we are a country of morons". It is disgusting, when a whole nation starts hating itself with a brutal onslaught from west and its "funded" Indian feminists.

Who is interested in truth? No one.

And you say, I am not listening.

Media Bias is a purely an American phenomenon, which is invading the whole world.

----
Nature always maintains a balance. So, no country in this world can make claim itself only to be civilised.
----

I am a nationalist. I do not feel, anyone has a right to degrade any other nation, civilisation or culture with the excuse of modernising or westernising societies. The modernisation is "holy Shit". I have seen how beautiful the lives of tribals in Jharkhand Area compared to hedonistic indulgent restless stinking filth in "modernised westernised" capitals around the world.

Its time people return back to nature.

#23
Jawahara
URL
October 12, 2007
03:45 AM

Sumanth, I thought you were focusing on evil, man-hating feminists and now you throw me for a loop with your evil people in the U.S. post.

Talking about manipulated statistics (since feminists are math challenged as you say)....did you manage to poll "every single Indian who goes to US?" Does that make you a feminist...or *gasp* a woman?

And, of course, no one in India has any stereotypes at all about the U.S. or Americans, right? From, Americans don't love their children, to they throw out their children onto the streets on their 18th birthday, to all American women are sluts, to all Americans are stupid and need Indian IT folks to do their actual work, to...yes, I could go on and on.

Stereotypes exist in all countries and all we can do is to work past them. And when did media bias become American? What does that even mean?

If you feel no one has a right to degrade any other civilization as you claim...perhaps you should prove that by *ahem* not degrading other civilization and really prove to us that you're operating from some higher plane.

#24
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 12, 2007
03:55 AM

Sumanth, if anyone says that 'Every single Indian, who goes to US or other countries is told, in your country women are burnt after their husbands die and young women are burnt, if they do not bring dowry' I'll smack them on the mouth just to show how well we Indian women can take care of ourselves but guess what in all the years that I have lived there not one American has ever said that to me nor to any of my brown friends.

One thing we Indians need to learn from Americans is to be politically correct.

Try not to make blanketed statements- not every rape victim hates the opposite gender, just like not every man hates all females if he is betrayed by one.

If someone blames the entire gender for the crime done by one then they are in desperate need of therapy.

#25
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
04:21 AM

thanks, jawahara... cause all I have left to say to sumanth is that he is clearly delusional.

"I am a nationalist. I do not feel, anyone has a right to degrade any other nation, civilisation or culture with the excuse of modernising or westernising societies."

well, sumanth, I don't feel you have the right to degrade other nations or civilizations based on faulty math, drummed up stats or personal vendettas.

the US is not to blame for feminism here in India. Indian women have minds of their own. for a nationalist, you're very quick to sell out half your own population. or is it only the men you believe in? either way, women leaders and matriarchal societies have existed all over the world for thousands of years. the US did not invent strong women, but thanks for the undue credit.

seems to me, sumanth, you're always on the lookout to blame someone... women, the US, anyone and everyone for your problems. take a good hard look in the mirror and maybe you'll figure out the real issue.

#26
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
04:34 AM

Jawahara,

Yes, Indians have stereotypes, but Indians do not bombard American Media with those stereotypes or "fund" agencies in US to spread anti-US sentiments.

I am not a saint and I do not want to be one. I do not want to set any examples for anyone. I question people and agencies, who claim moral high ground living in stinking filth.

Deepti,

You wrote:
"One thing we Indians need to learn from Americans is to be politically correct."

Why? Just because Americans have money, Media and weapons of mass destruction.

We Indians have to choose to live the way we are. "Satyameva Jayate"(Truth always Wins) is our national motto.

I do not think Americans have set any good examples in this world so far as truth is concerned.

When truth is on one's side, one has to be brutally honest and "as you rightly said" smack the people who are "lying". No rational, logical pleading will help.

For example, in State of Karnataka only 6% of educated (above class 10) woman "EVER"(at least once) faced Domestic Violence. Today's, Times of India says, "If you thought DV was on the wane in India with rise in education levels, then take a look at hard figures".

http://www.nfhsindia.org/pdf/KA.pdf

Now, tell me what will I do?

I can not be politically correct and stand outside Times of India office at MG Road with a begging bowl saying, "Buddham Saranam Gachchami".

6% DV against educated women (at least once in lifetime) is so less that it necessitates another survey for DV against men. In the meanwhile, 53% of all Indian children face DV.

Swami Agnivesh tell in Interview to CNN that 25000 women are burnt every year in India and it is cited in wikipedia. No one tells these great saints to stick to truth. So, I hate saints and I do not want to be a saint.

----------------
It is important to accept the fact that there is a gender war and there are hate campaigns around the world (be it religion, politics, societies, caste or gender). People have to get out of Ostrich syndrome and look at the reality.
----------------

Hating is not bad. Hate is just like any other human emotion. If hate is declared as bad, then people will try to hide it or falsely deceive themselves saying that "they are only loving through out their lives". Every person in this world, hates onething or other at one point of his or her life.

"I hate Mama's boys". How often do you hear that? In a country which is 50% matriarchal, there will be some mama's boys.

Feminists would not have been so vicious had they not been hating men all along.

#27
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
04:39 AM

Smallsquirrel,

Feminism existed in India at least 100 years back. But, present day feminism in India is mostly driven by US, UN, AI and other funding agencies with vested agendas.

So, US or Europe have to be blames for some problems in other countries.

People who claim 25,000 women are burnt in India are not delusional. Oprah who claims that Bangalore is the "Bride Burning Capital" is not delusional. Feminists who propagate lies are not delusional. Shabana Azmi who claims that 8 out 10 men beat their wives is not delusional.

If all these people are sane, then I do not mind being delusional.

I am happy to live in delusion.

#28
temporal
URL
October 12, 2007
04:42 AM

sumanth:

What happens to a young girl, when she reads that men oppressed women for ages? She hates men.

reads?

what if she is unread and senses and experiences discrimination as she is growing up...that she is doomed to be a second, third or fourth class citizen in a male dominated world?

#29
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
04:47 AM

sumanth... oh, so when my husband worked in the ICU of a hospital here in bangalore he fucking imagined the women with the burns, is it?

you are a bad liar and one with nothing but bad numbers and a guilty conscience.

all you can counter what I said with is a bunch more bullshit. you got nothing, dear. nothing but your own hate.

#30
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
04:57 AM

Smallsquirrel,

I did not degrade US or Americans. I did not say that they are "cow worshipping", pig eating xyz. I only question their their agendas. I question the mass propaganda by their media. If an American says that Indians burn women, I have to tell the truth. It is not degrading a person or a civilisation, I am blame on a "Biased Selfish Sick Media".

I have a right to blame and question just the way Media or feminists blame. I do not lose this right to question or blame just because I do not own a stinking TV Channel of my own.

#31
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
04:59 AM

Smallsquirrel,

Give facts if you say I am lying.

#32
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
05:04 AM

How many people got burns per month?

How many men got burnt? and what percetages?

How many women got burnt? and what percentages?

Vimochana (the feminist organisation at Bangalore) has put a table (in least 3 years) in burn ward of Victory Hospital to make as many dowry harassment or Dowry death cases as possible.

Still, why there are only 250 cases of dowry harassment in Bangalore (if woman survives with burns)? Why do not you join Vimochana and sit in the burn ward if you feel your husband is imagining things.

I hope, Oprah comes to Bangalore once.

#33
Jawahara
URL
October 12, 2007
05:04 AM

Sumanth, I feel the self-righteousness coming out of your post in waves. Hmmm...sort of similar to those self-righteous, "politically correct Americans," who are bombarding you with media images. We do become those we hate, huh?

And, btw, feminism does not need funding from anyone, American or not. Are you talking about women's organizations in India? There's a clear distinction.

You know what? The fact *is* that women are burned in India, and that female babies are killed and that we have a skewed male-female ration. There is enough research (official not "feminist" research as you say) to support this.

But this does not change the fact that all women do not face these issues and there are other wonderful things in India...for men and women.

But we still cannot wish away the bad just because we only want to focus on the good...and vice versa.

As far as you not being a saint I was only quoting your own words back to you...when you said you did not need to degrade anyone else...when you were clearly doing so.

If there is indeed a gender war, perhaps it's time for one then? Not that I believe there is or should be and I believe that men and women are both part of the world and need to work together...but let'a assume there is a war.

Perhaps you perceive that there is a war because the other side is now fighting back? Was there no war when women were being burned on funeral pyres, forced to endure abuse and killed with no recourse, (true in most countries), told that they are second-class citizens, with smaller, less complex brains, and inferior? That their only purpose in life was to be breeders of men? I could go on.

Was that not a war? So, is it only a war because the other side is now fighting back and impinging on your perceived rights, on your domain?

#34
Deepti Lamba
URL
October 12, 2007
05:07 AM

Why? Just because Americans have money, Media and weapons of mass destruction.

No Sumanth, I have yet to meet an American who said such nasty things to me on my face. Most of them always expressed the desire to visit India and are very curious about our rich diversity.

My observation is based on my interaction with Americans across the continent and they are warm kind people, no different from us Indians.

Like Jawahara said its easy to fall for stereotypes but there is little truth to them.

We Indians have to choose to live the way we are. "Satyameva Jayate"(Truth always Wins) is our national motto.

I do not think Americans have set any good examples in this world so far as truth is concerned.


Here you are treading on murky waters. What we must live by and how we live are two different things. The kind of crap we put our own people through should stop us from this kind of finger pointing.

To demonise an entire population as evil doers takes away the chance for holding dialog and makes it easier to win approval for out right hatred and war.


And BTW- we have ample money in our reserves, we pull our own weight internationally, have WMDs and have never caved in to anyone's bullying tactics so in the current scenario to think that we Indians still suffer from some sort of inferiority complex in front of the whites is an individual problem not one that majority of us suffer from.

#35
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
05:12 AM

I thought Sumanth made some good points as well as some insightful comments. In response to him, all I see is a litany of personal comments, abuse and unsubstantiated claims. No one has been able to engage with the substantive issues he raises.

#36
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
05:15 AM

Jawahara,

I challenge you.

Give me the data on Bride Burning per year in India.

Give me the data on Sati.

Give me the data on Dowry deaths in India.

I do not want stories or personal experiences of seeing a victim etc.

Lets get scientific and talk facts without depending on what "biased" media says.

----
I agree with you that there is female foeticide in India (especially North and West). I "personally" feel the feminist alarmism is "partly" responsible for it.
----

In any case, I am delusional and a lier, so any data I provide has no validity. As you are sane and truthful, provide data.


#37
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
05:26 AM

Deepti,

"And BTW- we have ample money in our reserves, we pull our own weight internationally..."

Why? Because people like me and us and our parents struggled hard and believed in a nation in its darkest hours, when tonnes of Gold was shipped to Switzerland to get foreign exchange to run our country. It is Indian family system and sacrifices of men and women inside family, which made India what it is today in the world.

I will not forget that day. I will not forget the day Kanishka was Bombed. I will not forget the days terrorists killed innocents in 80s and the great sane civilised looked other way and complained of human rights violation.

Today, it is the time to take revenge on Indian Techies. Is not it? And feminists have joined hands with anti-nationals for funds and spread lies. What is more sweet that breaking the very organisation which drives poverty stricken malnutritioned India to the forefront of the world.

Nationalistic movements exist around the world. There are right wing politicians ruling in most civilised countries in the world.

I believe there is an evil propaganda against India just the way it is happening against Islamic countries and cultures. I believe there are western spies inside Indian Social organisations. They are my personal beliefs.

My request to you all is, "Do not betray a nation listening to the colonial powers and their controlled media."



#38
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
05:39 AM

Deepti,

"My observation is based on my interaction with Americans across the continent and they are warm kind people, no different from us Indians."

I can understand that Americans are kind people. But, how they are not different from we Indias, the filthy, uncivilised, corrupt people and a pathetic civilisation where 80% of men beat up their wives "brutally" and kill the girls before birth?

We are not kind people. We are a bunch of abusers. We are a nation of abusers. That is what western controlled media in India and world is saying.

I can understand that Americans are kind people. Can I say the same about the US Government, US funded UN or CIA? When it is established that such agencies funded media, NGOs and politicians in 60s, why should not I suspect they doing the same now?

#39
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
05:42 AM

jawahara... don;t bother doing all the research. I did this dance once before with him, I think along with Aditi.. and we got all the numbers and showed him all the proof and what did he do? he claimed that they were all false reports and the people were coerced and that the incident of bride burning were not provable and the media was complicit and the police are corrupt and 5,000 other reasons why the offical data out there that speaks to domestic violence stats and numbers of victims of bride burning are wrong.

don;t bother. he doesn't listen.

#40
Jawahara
URL
October 12, 2007
06:17 AM

Sumanth, please, when did I call you delusional or a liar? If you want a debate go for it. I have not called you any names and have just pointed out places where you've been less than consistent.

As far as figures, etc. I too remember the figures dance that ss refers to. You don't believe anecdotes *and* all numbers are cooked up. If you want to believe what you want to believe...go right ahead. We all have a right to do that.

Also, Deepti, I will say, after spending close to two decades in the U.S., I *have* met the people who would ask the really annoying questions Sumanth referred to. I would cringe each time 20/20 would run something about India. However, things have gotten better in the last decade I think. But even then, it was not every American asking idiotic questions, just some. Just as there are some Indians who believe that they are much smarter than most Americans and all *goras* are dumb. Of course, they don't even consider that America is not all *gora*. Yes, there are problems in the media.

But what does the Indian news media show of the U.S.? All news media are biased and perhaps the American mainstream media is more so. I have my problems with them as well because the focus of the news tends to be narrow, government-based and rather conservative. So I get my news from the news team par excellence...Stewart and Colbert :-)

But then I find Indian media equally bad...and/or totally banal. The only thing is that U.S. media has more reach, and more power.

Sanjay Garg, disagreeing with someone does not constitute a litany of abuses. If you can sift through Sumanth's posts and bring out his excellent points, please post them.

As far as I can see, people are engaging him in debate as he dances around the issues, throws forth many red herrings and generally avoids looking at facts. If someone does give him scientific research he claims it's cooked. If someone gives him anecdotes he claims they are one-offs.

So, Sumanth, since I did not call you delusional or a liar why don't you give me your hard fact research? Oh wait...if I don't like it I can just say it's all cooked up. How convenient!

We can only debate whether the earth is flat or not if we all believe that we live on earth. If one party believes we live on the planet Xenu, there can be no debate.

#41
kela
October 12, 2007
06:51 AM

i'm into the kinky kind of goddess worship

#42
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
08:11 AM

Jawahara,

India Media (MSM) is a reflection of American Media as far as behaviour is concerned. They are also not interested in truth. Its in American media which creates standards for media all around the world.

Go to ncrb.nic.in and you see some very important data.

1) Indian government does not categorise spousal homicides. Bride burning is a kind of murder. A suicide can not be termed as bride burning.

2) The total number of murders of Indian women in 2005 are 7952. So, if Brides are burnt by husband or in-laws, then the maximum possible number is: 7952 (if we assume all women murdered in India by terrorists, by criminals, by husbands, by lovers, by daughters-in-law). So, that gives the upper limit.

3) In 2005, there are 6787 "alleged" dowry deaths in India. That is, that many dowry death cases were registered.

That gives us another upper limit. The maximum bride burnings that can happen in a year are 6787. Because, bride burning is a subset of dowry deaths.

4) Bride burning is burning of woman by husband or in-laws(sister-in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law) when they pour kerosene or gasoline and set her on fire.

5) A major Dowry deaths of 6787 can happen due to suicides (hanging, poisoning, jumping from building, and by burning oneself). None of these can be considered as "Bride Burning" because the statement (4) is invalid.

6)
Total number of murders of women in India: 7952.
Total number of sucides by women in India: 41000.

The ratio is: 1:5

Do dowry deaths follow the same ratio?
We do not know.

Even if we assume a 2:5 ratio for murders and suicides, then 6787 deaths can be categorised into 1940 murders and 4847 suicides.

That gives another upper limit that 1940 women were murdered for dowry, where as 4847 were driven to suicide by husband and in-laws.

Now, Bride Burning has to be less than 1940 per year in whole country. If I normalise it for Bangalore, then it will come out to be maximum 15 per year (if I consider bangalore's population to be 8 million). That invalidates the claims made by Vimochana about "burn ward in Victoria Hospital".

It is unlikely that all dowry murders (1940) are bride burning.

If Govt had published a breakup for 6787 dowry deaths into suicides, bride burnings, stabbing, poisoning, killed by hitting etc etc, then we would have got a direct figure for Bride burning in year 2005. We the SIFF members are using RTI to find the correct data.
-----------

If Bride Burning is so low, why there is such a big fuss?

refer ncrb.nic.in. About 2500 women every year commit suicide in India by burning themselves. See the suicide stats and categories. They end up in the burnwards. For 2500 women committing suicide by fire, say about 8000 more attempting it and survive in the process. Where do these people go? To a Burn ward in a big city.

The burn ward at Victoria hospital in Bangalore certainly gets people with burn injuries from places within 100 km in radius.

Suicides or attempts suicides can not be categorised as "Bride Burning". People can attemp suicide due to many reasons other than dowry as well. For example, mental illness, family problems with parents, financial problems.

------
Ok, I accept that dowry deaths happen and bride burning happens. But, where are the numbers of spousal homicides? Indian govt stats show "Zero". In short, the spousal homicides and "driving woman to suicide" are categorised as dowry deaths (6787). If I normalise with the spousal homicide data in US by dividing the number by 4, it is 1700 deaths, which is very much comparable to the data in US.

-------------------------
Conclusion: There is almost no differetial in homicide rate of women in India and women in US. In US, about 3150 women get murdered every year.
That implies, most of the dowry deaths may have very little to do with dowry. For example, if dowry is eliminated tomorrow, still 6000 women will get killed or commit suicide with the reason being abused by spouse.
--------------------------

Finally, I am an insane, delusional person as mentioned by your fellow feminists. Your both friends did not give me any data on Bride Burning ever.

#43
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
08:19 AM

Correction:

In short, the spousal homicides and "driving woman to suicide" are categorised as dowry deaths (6787). If I normalise with the spousal homicide data of India to data in US by dividing the number by 4*, it is 1700 deaths, which is very much comparable to the data in US.

* assuming population of India is 4 times more than population of US.

#44
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
09:14 AM

what I will say is that clearly these numbers, although coming from the ministry of home affairs, are flawed.

they report 1,693 TOTAL cases of rape for 2005

this means that rape is being wildly underreported. how is that even possible? in a country like the US, someone is raped once every 5 seconds. In India, there must be comparable rates. so these stats are useless, sumanth.

1,693 total cases of rape in India in a year my ass!

#45
ravi
October 12, 2007
09:40 AM

!!!!male dominated world? !!!

it's a myth.

#46
Jawahara
URL
October 12, 2007
09:49 AM

Sumanth, even if we agree with your analysis of these figures...even if our rate are comparable to those in the U.S....is that still okay? Should people be killed just for being what they are...women? Should we say, accha, it's fine....we just kill as many people as the U.S. does.

And really, how plausible is it that spousal homicides will be zero? In a country of more than a billion, spousal homicides are zero? For I am sure that women also kill their husbands. And husbands kill their wives. Just the fact that a crime can show up as zero is suspect. Perhaps the data are classified differently and in different places.

Also, in India, rapes are assaults are commonly not reported because of the shame it is supposed to bring to the victim and her family. This was the case in other countries...yes, even the U.S....where women would not report their rapes. Once the stigma was mitigated actual reports went up.

And ravi, care to elaborate? It's really easy to throw out random statements. Back it up. Tell us how the world is dominated by women....a world where women in some countries are chattel, cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot live their lives without the ownership of a man...where they are told they are inferior and believe they are so. Yep...the world sure is not dominated by men.

#47
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
09:49 AM

Smallsquirrel,

When there is a bad news, we generally hope that is not true.

You are getting good news on "Bride Burning" and as a feminist you should have taken a closer look and should be jumping in joy by now.

What do you want as a feminist?

More bride burnings or less bride burnings?

Come on, feminists and Govt got 25 years. If they do not have data in 25 years, they should go to Andromeda.

--------
See, I am an insane, delusional liar. My data comes from National Crime Bureau and not from any ministry.
--------


You wrote:

"They report 1,693 TOTAL cases of rape for 2005.1,693 total cases of rape in India in a year my ass!"

What does rapes have to do anything with Bride Burnings? Can not you stick to the topic?

The "alleged" rapes in India are: 18359 (from a liar's source):

http://ncrb.nic.in/crime2005/cii-2005/1953-2005.pdf

-------------------------------
Smallsquirrel, you rightly said, in US someone is raped in every 5 seconds. Now, let us do some mathematics (I have a masters in Electrical Engineering).
-------------------------------

According to you, in an hour, 720 people are getting raped in US. In a day, 17280 people are raped and in one year 63,07,200 (6.3 million) people are raped in US.

In 10 years, 63 million people are raped in US.
In 40 years, 252 million people are raped in US.

----------------
To an insane, delusional liar like me, it looks like according to feminists, everyone in US has a chance of getting raped in life time.
----------------

Now, I remembered enlightened Feminist Andrea Dowrkin for whom "Sex is nothing but rape".

If "sex is same as rape", then I will aggree that everyone in US will get raped one day or other.

-----------------
This is a clear evidence and reason why people hate feminists.
-----------------

Jawahara, where are you? See the data of your feminist friends.

#48
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
10:21 AM

sumanth, now I remember why I stopped going down this road with you long back. you twist everything.

please excuse me from this waste of time. I have debated with you in the past, ad nauseum.... and that is valuable time I can never get back. UGH

#49
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
10:25 AM

@smallsquirrel: Most of the rapes in the U.S. are date rapes and this does not apply in India.

Given that pervasive dating - at all age groups and across all income levels - is quite uncommon in India, projecting this American dynamic on India is quite unreasonable.

#50
smallsquirrel
October 12, 2007
10:47 AM

sanjay, you said Most of the rapes in the U.S. are date rapes and this does not apply in India.

and where did you get THAT bit of information?!?!?!?
you and sumanth went to the same school of funky data

#51
Jawahara
URL
October 12, 2007
10:49 AM

Date rapes might not be common in India...but rapes as punishment (for caste transgressions, for instance) are common. Due to Indian social mores and conditioning about rapes most rapes are under-reported.

Sumanth, I can't speak for SS, but your stats and your analyses are not adding up. I will definitely need to look into the numbers. However, there is no question of jumping for joy or not. If a crime is under-reported and does not exist on the record...all that tells us is that the crime might just be unreported.

#52
SeemaD
October 12, 2007
11:04 AM

smallsquirrel, Jawahara: Garg here has this image of the WEST. Most rapes here are date rapes. Most people here are jailed if they express religious freedom. Most Americans are lazy, drunken or drugged SOBs. The world war is still going on. There are slaughter houses where innocent animals are murdered (and by this he means the meat industry which is prevalent in India as well :))...and so on.

His ideas about the west show how swiftly southwards his views are heading.

:)

So chances are you will not find his data statistically relevant.

Garg: I have a feeling that the unreported rape cases in India will probably make up for the discrepancy between the "US date rape phenomenon" and India's lack thereof.

#53
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
11:06 AM

@Jawahara: I note that Sumanth has raised the important issue regarding the asymmetry of information that exists between the West and India i.e. that the West analyzes, examines, studies & represents India far, far more than the other way around.

It is one thing to fluff this off, as some have, by saying "everyone holds stereotypes" and quite another to have numerous major academic and other institutions systematically manufacturing copius "research" on India.

Needless to say, Western institutions do this using their own framework, epistemology, hermeneutics etc and the overwhelming majority of the information that Indians read, view or hear about themselves in English (or in other Western languages) is sponsored, controlled & produced by the West in this manner. It is the equivalent of Indians sitting as passengers in a bus while someone else is driving it, no clue where they are going.

Instead of acknowledging this asymmetry, people are actually perpetuating it by citing even more research produced in this manner.

#54
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
11:09 AM

SeemaD:Garg: I have a feeling that the unreported rape cases in India will probably make up for the discrepancy between the "US date rape phenomenon" and India's lack thereof.

And I have a stronger feeling that unreported rape cases in the US will preserve, and probably widen, this gap :-)

#55
ravi
October 12, 2007
11:23 AM

Jawahara:
!!!!Date rapes might not be common in India...but rapes as punishment (for caste transgressions, for instance) are common. Due to Indian social mores and conditioning about rapes most rapes are under-reported.!!!!

OMG. rapes as punishment is not common in india. You find very very less such type of things. please don't use the word 'common'.

I never said that this world is female dominant, i just said this not male dominated world. means no one has complete domination.
Men may have society structure which is profitable for them(of course not every where), but definitely they have much worse laws to suffer(almost every where). that's why i am said male dominating world is a myth.

very sadly in many countries, according to law men are second , third, fourth graded citizens, don't have right to seek justice, don't have right to treat as equal by the law.

#56
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
11:39 AM

@Jawahara: Date rapes might not be common in India...but rapes as punishment (for caste transgressions, for instance) are common. Due to Indian social mores and conditioning about rapes most rapes are under-reported

I think rapes are under-reported everywhere, not just in India. I would also venture to guess that very little goes unreported in India with a sensation-seeking free press, not to mention 2 million NGOs poking their noses everywhere.

It should also be noted that with fragmented families, an atomized social cultural fabric and greater privacy, there are many more opportunities for rape in the West than in India.

#57
SeemaD
October 12, 2007
11:41 AM

Garg: "And I have a stronger feeling that unreported rape cases in the US will preserve, and probably widen, this gap :-)"

Nah, don worry about that. here there is hardly any chance of women worrying about the social stigma they will face if they go to the police. Also, police officers follow standard procedures: rape kits, photographs, recorded interviews, DNA analysis etc and won't suggest that the victim may have gotten raped coz she wore a short skirt :) When the case finally gets to court (which doesn't take 5 years)...it will not be thrown out coz of lack of evidence. DNA evidence itself is enough to send the perp behind bars.

Not to say that the law here is flawless but your worries about unreported cases increasing here is unfounded.

Also in comment #53 you say the following:

"Instead of acknowledging this asymmetry, people are actually perpetuating it by citing even more research produced in this manner"

This is always true no matter which nation it is. One will always find people who are willing to feed stereotypes or myths. It is common. But the smart ones who can read and can think for themselves won't buy theories based on a few pieces of data. They will find out for themselves and will use their own judgment not just borrowed theories. So the "asymmetry" is both ways. There are racial stereotypes in India about Americans and there are ones about Indians in America. Your concern about sponsored information about India in the West is baseless. No academic institution ever subscribes to the views of a certain person. Every person/ scientist has his/ her own theory/ hypothesis. If that hypothesis is not sufficiently proven or demonstrated using credible studies and scientific evidence, it is rejected. People are not dummies to not know the difference between hype/ propaganda and real evidence.

In India, I was asked by an OB/Gyn in Bombay why we only eat out of tins (canned food). People in India assume that all American teens lose their virginity (almost as if it were a rule).

So there is an educated class in India where people ask Americans dumb questions too and there is a huge population which has these preconceived notions about Americans as well.

#58
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
11:45 AM

I did not twist anything.

You lied that there is one rape in every 5 seconds in US. Even when it is shown to be practically impossible, still you stick to your story and claim that others have gone to school of funky data.

Jawahara: Do not evade.

-----------------
I did not see any rational, logical behaviour from feminists, when they are proven to be lying and misrepresenting facts.
-----------------

25 years the hoax of bride burning was propagated with blatant lies (25000 are burnt for dowry) to defame a civilised nation and its people.

The spousal homicide data of both India and US tally perfectly. There is no differential and the the feminist game is up.

26467 men got murdered in 2005 compared to 7952 women (all over India). In time, we will also prove that women, their lovers and their parents murder more men than women who get murdered by husbands.

I am remembering all Rizwanurs, Syed Modis, Nitish Kataras, BV Girishs, Rajesh Desais.

Jawahara: Do not claim that some MCP is suppressing all the data related to women. Call WHO, UN and AI to come and do surveys.

------------
Women are pampered since ages. It is chivalry which is screwing men. Once, men drop chivalry and fight for "real" equality, the game is over for feminists.
------------

#59
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
11:52 AM

For years, I practiced the feminine way of talking and argueing. I enjoy the frustration of females, when I unleash it.

I show the same kind of stubbornness inherent in most females.

#60
Sumanth
October 12, 2007
11:59 AM

Next time, I will expose fallacy in the "50 million Missing women story" propagated by none other than Amartya Sen. I never expected Nobel laureates to be so biased. I am also interested in digging his full story regarding his first wife.

#61
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
12:06 PM

@SeemaD: Nah, don worry about that. here there is hardly any chance of women worrying about the social stigma they will face if they go to the police. Also, police officers follow standard procedures: rape kits, photographs, recorded interviews, DNA analysis etc and won't suggest that the victim may have gotten raped coz she wore a short skirt :) When the case finally gets to court (which doesn't take 5 years)...it will not be thrown out coz of lack of evidence.

Who said I was worried? you assumed :-( the rest of your comment appears irrelevant to this discussion.

This is always true no matter which nation it is. One will always find people who are willing to feed stereotypes or myths. It is common. But the smart ones who can read and can think for themselves won't buy theories based on a few pieces of data. They will find out for themselves and will use their own judgment not just borrowed theories. So the "asymmetry" is both ways. There are racial stereotypes in India about Americans and there are ones about Indians in America. Your concern about sponsored information about India in the West is baseless. No academic institution ever subscribes to the views of a certain person. Every person/ scientist has his/ her own theory/ hypothesis. If that hypothesis is not sufficiently proven or demonstrated using credible studies and scientific evidence, it is rejected. People are not dummies to not know the difference between hype/ propaganda and real evidence.

You have failed to address the key point I made. It is irrelevant how many "person/ scientist(s)" are used if they all subscribe to the same Western epistemology and frames of reference.

To challenge my position, you will have to show that research produced by the West about India uses Indian categories of thought, epistemology and frames of reference. Until then, we're talking apples and oranges.

#62
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
12:14 PM

@Sumanth: Next time, I will expose fallacy in the "50 million Missing women story" propagated by none other than Amartya Sen. I never expected Nobel laureates to be so biased. I am also interested in digging his full story regarding his first wife.

Yes, this sounds fascinating indeed. Maybe we can ask Mr Sen (or is Mr Rothschild?) whether he has a similar math paper with respect to the 35 million aborted "missing" kids (since the 1970s) in the U.S. After all, scaled up to Indian population levels, this equates to 140 million "missing" kids!

#63
SeemaD
October 12, 2007
12:23 PM

"To challenge my position, you will have to show that research produced by the West about India uses Indian categories of thought, epistemology and frames of reference"

I think a while ago YOU had used Dr.Vinay Lal's reff for one of your comments :) He is at UCLA...which is in the WEST :) The West gives people a wide platform to perform their own research, publish their own studies about cultural plurality. Now does it mean all those studies are supposed to be used as evidence. No. It is up to people to interpret and apply the results of such studies. So you are right, it doesn't matter "how many persons/ scientists" it is...what matters is whose interpretation/ application you are looking at. A redneck in West Virginia will most likely have a different understanding of the Indian culture compared to say people who live in LA, New Jersey etc who have greater first-hand exposure to Indian culture. In fact even in one city itself you will find a divide in terms of how people interpret cultural concepts that they are unfamiliar with. Boston is a good example. You will find areas within Boston that are as tolerant and culturally suave as there are areas with some very staunch and rigid people unwilling to look at the other side of a cultural nuance.

This has nothing to do with the West...its a worldwide phenomenon when it comes to cultural grasp.

Also, Garg: You took my "worrying" remark a bit literally. The rest of my comment which you found conveniently "irrelevant" actually nullified your "stronger feeling" :)

#64
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
12:26 PM

@Sumanth: 25 years the hoax of bride burning was propagated with blatant lies (25000 are burnt for dowry) to defame a civilised nation and its people. The spousal homicide data of both India and US tally perfectly. There is no differential and the the feminist game is up.

Something similar has already happened with respect to the HIV/ AIDS "epidemic" in India. UNAID and other 5-Star-hotel NGOs consistently overestimated the number of HIV/ AIDS in India until a Gates Foundation study recently showed that the number of cases in India were less than half of what the Western press was reporting!

This meant that the incidence rate of this disease fell to about 0.25 for India compared to 0.40 for the US!

#65
Jay
October 12, 2007
12:28 PM

Sanjay Garg: The West produces? Do you think, The West is some kind of a company that intentionally manufactures myths about India? Any rationale behind why they might be doing so?

Are you accusing researchers in the West of fabricating data?

#66
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
12:40 PM

@SeemaD: I think a while ago YOU had used Dr.Vinay Lal's reff for one of your comments :) He is at UCLA...which is in the WEST :)

That was of course a completely separate discussion. I also recall telling you that I agreed with Lal's basic thesis and also that he left out many things that would follow naturally from the thesis.

I guess there was a limit to which he was allowed to go in a Western university :-(

Also, Garg: You took my "worrying" remark a bit literally. The rest of my comment which you found conveniently "irrelevant" actually nullified your "stronger feeling" :)

How can you "nullify" how others feel?

#67
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
12:43 PM

@Jay: Are you accusing researchers in the West of fabricating data?

No. I'm congratulating the West for using only Western philosophy, ideas, epistemology and frames of reference when they study India.

#68
Aditi Nadkarni
October 12, 2007
02:19 PM

Sanjay Garg said: "I guess there was a limit to which he was allowed to go in a Western university :-("

Seema, people who have not received education in a "Western" university are likely to have such prejudiced opinions about what the system is like here. They judge it by Indian standards where limits are forced upon researchers.

#69
SeemaD
October 12, 2007
02:23 PM

Garg: "How can you "nullify" how others feel?"

By providing rationale for why they shouldn't be feeling that way. But of course if they still want to harbor such "feelings" I cannot control that! :)

#70
Sanjay Garg
October 12, 2007
03:27 PM

@SeemaD:By providing rationale for why they shouldn't be feeling that way. But of course if they still want to harbor such "feelings" I cannot control that! :)

Exactly. You really can't dictate by logic how other people feel. Chalk this one up to experience.

#71
Jawahara
URL
October 13, 2007
03:45 AM

Sumanth, I was not evading anything. The fact is taht you've obviously spent some time analysing these figures using some filters. So until I've analyzed them without your filter there is not much I can say.

I can say that I strongly suspect that the figures are not that accurate and that your analysis is somewhat suspect. Since I don't want to do some half-baked analysis myself I am letting this go for now.

Sanjay, doesn't every nation look at others through their perspective? Does India look at the U.S. through an American perspective? I doubt it.

#72
Sanjay Garg
October 13, 2007
06:26 AM

@Jawahara:Sanjay, doesn't every nation look at others through their perspective? Does India look at the U.S. through an American perspective? I doubt it.

Thank you. You finally got 50% of my point. The overwhelming preponderance of information, knowledge, scholarship etc that the West produces about India is indeed from their own, Western perspective.

What you missed: knowing in advance that every bit of knowledge, scholarship, information etc. that the West produces about India will be from the West's own perspective, we often fail to realize that it represents just one (external) viewpoint. We cannot blindly accept everything as valid. There is a need for balance.

Add your comment

(Or ping: http://desicritics.org/tb/6503)

Personal attacks are not allowed. Please read our comment policy.






Remember Name/URL?

Please preview your comment!