The Thin Line Between Sanity and Madness

It is highly unbelievable that she could not get a police case registered..espescially when her husband is some unknown, politically unconnected guy. Police waits for dowry and rape cases because those provide ammunition to them to arrest the guy without any proof and extort lakhs of rupees money from the poor guy in exchange to not lodge him in jail for a prolonged period of time. Police never lose time in filing such cases because of the huge amount of bribe money it brings them. False cases of dowry and rape are the biggest goldmine for police and lawyers all over the country. And considering the supreme court observation that 98% of dowry cases are false, it is obvious that this is yet another attempt by some woman to file a false case to extort money.

If women want love, then they should also learn to give it. Women in a relationship never give, they just take things. And women are very much capable of working and earning and living on their own...they have no right to suck the blood of some poor guy to live their life. It is high time women learn to be responsible and financially self sufficient instead of slectively clinging on to tradition when it comes to the responsibility of earning money and demanding progressiveness when it comes to other things like dressing and taking care of kids. Women have enough opportunity and it is high time opportunity comes with the price of responsibility instead of continuously whining that they are not getting a free lunch.

It is aimless to write on such an opportunistic women as it will only provide the much (un)desired publicity to this woman's act of stupidity.


I am most certainly convinced that the woman is a bug Fraud. The accusations of dowry harassment are part and parcel of every inconvenience that a woman faces ever in her life. I am least surprised at women making these baseless allegations these days. I feel highly surprised when I hear of a woman's complaint which has no mention of dowry to it. All the woman has been longing for is financial fortification from her husband and when she did not see it coming his way, she clearly sought PLAN B to use 498A weapon to thrust her demands on the husband. I feel sorry for the husband and family who bore the brunt of another abuse of section 498A.

However I am still hopeful of finding a needle in the hay(i.e a genuine dowry harassment case among plethora of false dowry cases).

Wow. Amazing how Redrajesh manages to turn what is a sad and compelling story into an indictment of women in general. Wait... I didn't mean "amazing," I meant "pathetic."

"If women want love, then they should also learn to give it."? What on earth is that supposed to mean and how does it relate to this story *at all*?

Ms. Anouradha Bakshi,

It is a pathetic road show. If police did not register a case of Dowry Harassment under Section 498a, Ms.Chauhan can easily go to a Magistrate and file a complaint directly at court. I counselled more than 500 people in last 3 years who are victims of this dreaded law.

I know women who try to cut their wrists if her husband do not throw his elderly parents out of his house.

Indian women are filled with intolerance and hatred by media and literature. That hatred is driving them mad. Some women have more hatred than religious fanatics.

This brainwashing has made a section of women highly self destructive, who either take revenge on others or take revenge on themselves.

It is not at all surprising for some females to behave like suicide bombers filled with hate (which is bidirectional).

This lady wanted her husband, in-laws and neighbours to be arrested. Fine. But, what is the evidence that the women is harassed? Why should someone be arrested when there is no evidence?

Why should we the woman's version at face valiue just because she is doing "Nanga Nach" on the street?

If a man does the same if harassed by his wife, will you give the same consideration to him?

Most probably, her husband and in-laws got anticipatory bail and the female knows the game is over for her. That may be the reason police did not arrest the family.

Females can easily get made and paranoid if their do not get all the money the husband has earned his life when marriage takes a worse turn.

Laws have to be the same irrespective of gender.



So far as women's problems are, most of them are creation of radical feminists.

If you go around with a loud speaker and announce that there is 80% chance that one's small daughter will be beaten, burnt, kicked, slapped, raped, burnt for dowry, then no one will like to have a girl in the house.

The feminist alarmism reinforces the belief that it is risky to have girls born in a family and hence girls are burdens.

3 times more men compared to women die every year due to accidents, suicides and murders.
15000 men compared to 10000 women are committing suicide due to family reasons.

Now, it is all about Gender Votes. is not it? Destroy the society. Destroy lives of children. Feminists Promote abortions and yet claim foeticide is a genocide.

Why you are not campaigning of banning of Abortions? Because killing unborn is a woman's birth right.

Let me tell you. This kind of nuisance will only increase. Just wait 6 more months. It is no big deal for many women to accuse the entire families of husband of harassing her and even raping her.

In same Gujarat, a member of "Save Indian Family" committed suicide due to harassment by his wife. No one took any action. In bangalore a boy was driven to death due to harassment by females teachers. No action was taken against the teachers.

But, if a female does Nanga nach, then police have to arrest people. This single act is enough to understand what all the poor husband must have gone though.

Why the hell she is carrying a baseball bat?

Just because there is a female presidential candidate, should all men jump into Bay of Bengal?

Let her be a president. Then real fun will begin. Within days we will ask her to reply if she supports "Abortion".

It is boys who are silenced by society and are conditioned to suppress all their emotions.

It is with a tinge of sadness that I read all the above comments. I do not want to go into a spat that will lead nowhere..
I am sure that there is an element of truth in all that is said.. however I go by the fact that I have for the last 8 years worked with women and seen the abuse, the harassment, the hurt and the helplessness that normally remains locked in silence.. and I guess it is for each one of us to react in a way we feel comfortable with

Ms.Anouradha,

Please understand that society has selective perception when it comes to suffering of women.

A women's suffering always gets considerate ears where as males are considered disposable.

You also work with children. Tell me, what right society has to suppress small boys emotionally (ie. suppress their crying)?

You may claim that it is a male dominated society and hence men create and enforce the social structure. I will not buy that argument.

Women contributed equally to patriarchy as it was beneficial to them. They do not have to struggle and die in hit sun and harsh environment.

I agree women face lot of hardship. But, are not children, elders and men facing the hardship?

Have not you seen males pulling rickshaws with barefoot to feed a family? Have not you seen male coolies lifting 100kgs on head to feed a family? Have not you seen small male children getting abused while working in roadside restaurents and garages?

This kind of one-sided attitude by famous activists like you has led to heavy media bias in favour of radical feminism.

If a woman walks out of marriage, then she is a victim. If woman commits adultery, then she is a victim. If a woman drives her husband to suicide, even then she is a victim and needs compensation. What kind of bullshit is this?

The more you talk about plight of women, the more people assume that women are burdens.

Do you have even an ounce of consideration for lacs of people(including women) who suffer from false accusations of dowry harassment.

OK. Fine. Let me be fair to you and NCW. Why do not we do a lie detection test on the woman, her husband and her in-laws. The truth will come out.

Women are conditioned to fully utilise the society's eager ears to propagate their masala-tales. The same privilege is not available to children who work on road side restaurents, men or elders.

Your attitude is pathetic because you do not see suffering of all with the same eyes. You have stereotyped every suffering as "women's sufferings". This is extremely dangerous because media and society believes what you say in functions and in social circles.

So, media propagated lies that 70% of Indian women face domestic violence (according to UNDP). UN never published this statistic.

I feel sorry for social workers like you who do disservice to nation inspite of hardwork.

It is important to be ethical whatever one does. The biggest drawback of women's movement is that it never followed any principles and ethics are completely alien to feminism.

Consider sufferings of every human in this world. Look at all sides and then come to conclusions. If you see the sufferings with a filter "women/girls", and jump to conclusion, use your influence to propagate your conclusions around the world, you do a severe dis-service to the society.

Societies are complex systems. Conclusions taken with reactive behaviour can create more problems than solutions. I already emphasised how alarmism is contributiong to some percentage of female foeticide.

The most obvious solution to a complex problem gives least leverage. I am not saying it. It is said by some of the world's best brains.

Data from NCRB in Year 2005

-----------Females--------Males

Suicides----40,998------1,13,994
Accidents---69,425------2,24,750
Murders------7,952--------26,467

Total-------1,18,375----3,65,211

How many people in this country even know that 3 times more men than women die due to all these reasons?

This proves that men are 3 times more stressed than women and the disease statistics will also follow the same pattern.

Still, you claim our society has to change and women only face hardship in our society. So, you want men/boys to face more hardship.

Social activists like you do not realise that pushing men to even more desparate situation will only increase crimes in society which will contribute to crimes against women. That is the very reason that the situation never improves.

The whole female sob stories are towards creating false perception that only women make sacrifices for family and face abuse and difficulties.

Now, in case of Pooja Chauhan, if it is proved beyond doubt that she has lied and harassed her husband's family, what punishment would you recommend for her?

I again reiterate that false perceptions created about women's suffering is filling women with hatred and intolerance. That gets directed outwards or inwards. Both are dangerous for them.

Ms.Anouradha,

The illogical, unscientific and stubborn behaviour of social activists like you makes us to talk tough.

http://ncrb.nic.in/adsi2005/home.htm

How many howevers, buts....we will hear?


Hang the people in the street if a woman accuses an entire family(including minor children) of DV.

In 2005, more than 350 minor children are arrested and put in jail under the anti-dowry law 498a.

Social activists like you propagate false perceptions which contributes to legal terrorism.

http://ncrb.nic.in/crime2005/cii-2005/CHAP3.pdf
Murder data

It is the Male victims of Domestic Violence are the ones who actually suffer in silence because social constraints.

It is the boys who are silenced by society because they have to act as unpaid bodyguards for their mothers and sisters.

Your sadness has no value for the society. Under dowry law, "accused are considered guilty till proven innocent".

Social activists like you and NCW want even more stringent laws. You have written this article just because police did not arrest the man's family without investigation.

What evidence of cruelty and dowry harassment Pooja Chauhan has present before all of us that police has to take action?

May be she wants 30 lacs from her husband as alimony (out of court). May be she threatened them that if they do not give that she will go naked in the street.

I am afraid more and more unscrupulous women will start taking this path of getting naked. In any case they are pretty uncomfortable in their "underwear-exposing" low-waist jeans.

I ask again, why she is carrying a baseball bat?

One female accused Azim Premji of Domestic Violence. She was wife of his employee. We turned the whole story on her.

Sting: Watch the evidence how false injuries can be made and false certificate can be created for cruelty, rape and workplace harassment.

Watch all Videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN18A0Q49wo&mode=related&search=

Only Indians have Integrity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUX21bzgQ8&mode=related&search=

What more evidence do you want Ms.Anouradha?

Are you going to write even a single article on men and their mothers, sisters who suffering with false cases, false evidences and false certificates?

For people like you social justice is important.
For people like you collateral damage for a noble cause (women's cause) is perfectly fine.

Only you do not want to extend the same previlage to George Bush.

You are only feeling sad, but there are people who are dying (committing suicide) and getting jailed due to misdirected social activism.

People tolerated it for years. Now, they want to teach all the radical feminists, hypocrite social activists a lesson.

Now, there are thousand bloggers in India and West who want men to be hanged or castrated as soon as a dowry complaint is filed against him and his family.

Here are the arguments which make Pooja Chauhan a suspect.

1) Why she did not go to court and file a case? The law against dowry is so strict in India that the accused husband, his parents, sisters are considered "Guilty till proven innocent" and it is non-bailable offense. This is the most misused law in the country. In 2005, more than 166 children are jailed under false cases of dowry harassment.

2) She wants to harass her in-laws as she wants them to be arrested without providing any evidence. Why she did not provide any evidence?

3) Why she did not file a case under PWDVA (protection of women under domestic violence act)?

4) Why she is carrying a baseball bat?

Because she wanted to harass her husband and in-laws. The motive may be extortion of money.

7000 women die due to dowry. Actually, half of these are false. 22,000 men are driven to suicide by their wives.

No one punishes these moron female criminals.

Without proof why police have to arrest anyone.

Is going naked in street a proof for harassment?

Now, she wants to take revenge on neighbours. What proof has she got?

Will she be punished if it is proved that her complaint is false.

On this issue, now, people are writting, they hate to be Indians.

WTF??

Can not this female go and work?
Can not she ask for maintenance which is almost sure to be ordered.

Sumanth

When do you believe that the case it true and not false?

Men drive women to suicide and call them accidents.

1)You are asking Pooja to go to court instead. What difference does it make? Whether the case gets registered at police station or court, it needs to be registered.

I SAY THE LAW IS MOST UNDER USED LAW.



2)What kind of evidence you need Pooja Chauhan to provide and why should she to you and make her evidence public? She will to the court as and when the trial starts.

3) Pooja Chauhan is no lawyer to know all this. A lay man only knows to go to the police station to lodge an FIR. She is not a lawyer.

4)And you moron the reason she is carrying a base ball bat so sex starving men do not try to rape her. Got it?

Extortion you say? What evidence do you have on her?

And there you go, she is no longer a suspect. Got it?

I SAY THE LAW IS MOST UNDER USED LAW.

I have an open mind for the story below:
---------------------------------------


Pooja alcoholic, into flesh trade: Husband

Express News Service

Rajkot, July 07: Pooja Chauhan's husband Pratap Chauhan has alleged that his wife is an alcoholic and indulged in flesh trade.

Pratap has also alleged that Pooja was married before marrying him.

In a written statement released to the media, Pratap, a labourer from Shantinagar slums on the 150-feet ring road, said that one Pratima Deepak, who resides near Amrapali Cinema, is Pooja's agent. "Together they have been running the illegal activity of prostitution,'' he said in the statement.

Pratap, who has been summoned by the First Class Judicial Magistrate on July 10 in connection with a case filed by Pooja alleging him of mental and physical harassment, said that it was in fact Pooja who had been cheating and harassing his family since their marriage in 2004.

According to him, they got married on April 3, 2004. At the time of the marriage, she declared that she was an orphan. "But later I discovered that her parents were alive and she was already married to one Bhupat Gohil before marrying me,'' he said in the statement.

Pratap further said that he found her to be an alcoholic who would often physically and mentally harass his mother Hansaba. A month back, he had registered a complaint against Pooja in this regard at Gandhigram Police Station.

Mr.Whatever,

So, she only knows police station and she does not know what a court is.

She could never think, the policemen could rape her (just what they did to Mathura in 1978) and in stead the people on the street will rape her on the street.

I say, no one must be arrested without evidence or investigation.

Police/Court have to file a case, then investigate. The defendent has to give whatever evidence she has to the court.

Imagine, someone accuses you on the street and you are jailed.

You say the law is underused. What is the proof?

All the claims of yours do not get reflected in Data.

Data from NCRB in Year 2005(corrected)

-----------Females--------Males

Suicides----40,998--------72,996
Accidents---69,425------2,24,750
Murders------7,952--------26,467

Total-------1,18,375----3,24,413

ncrb.nic.in

For family reasons, 15000 men compared to 10,000 women commit suicide.

If women are tortured so much inside family, then for every one man's suicide 10 women would have been committing suicide.

I do not say, she is innocent or guilty.

People are making generalised statements.

Dowry exists in India.
Sowry also exists in India.

Men harass women and women harass men.
Society and Nature harassed all.

The dowry laws have been ineffective because Dowry Prohibition officers were never appointed.

Dowry case is not made civilian and hence a neighbour can never give a complaint of dowry demand to authorities.

Even today, you can not do anything if you know that your friend has taken dowry (unless his wife comes forward).

Compare this with laws on income tax. Anyone can complain of tax evasion and Income tax officer makes an enquiry.

But, in case of dowry complaint, a neighbour or friend is not allowed to make a complaint. Can I ask why? Because the first part (civil law) is missing.

What is needed is a mild civil law, followed by strict criminal law. Nobody including the very knowledgeable President APJ Abdul Kalam could think with such basic common sense.

Just because of hot blooded, short circuited thinking of large chunk of intellectual morons the problem of dowry is still there.


I ask again, why can not I file a complaint of dowry taking/giving, if I know that a friend of mine is planning to take dowry?

Because, feminists themselves give and take dowry. They never wanted the problem to be solved.

I feel for the victim that under what kind of grave circumstances must have taken this ghastly step. I can only imagine her vulnerability to do this.

Therefore how can the law be misused?
Any case in India takes 15-20 years to reach its end. How can anyone use this to extract money?
Why did the cops not register her case?
Who must have bribed the cops from registering the case?
Why did she have to wait for so many weeks to register a case?


Also according to Sumanth and his statistics only 10% males ( 500 males) in India have been accused of 498a / Therefore so many women who are victims and harassed for dowry do not use this law to protect themselves. Who knows how many do the rounds of the police station and never even get a FIR registered.

I wish women would realize their rights and know the laws better. I wish she had known that she could have approached the magistrate instead of taking the drastic step.

What is NCW , Renuka and Girija doing to protect women?
Why are the laws not protecting the women?

Sumanth

How is the suicide statistics related to dowry? Men suicide for various reasons.

Do you know when over drunken men and men who have over dosed with drugs die, the are also considered suicides. Please check and ask your local municipal hospital.

For every suicide the opposite gender is not responsible? Your statistics do not prove anything

And in fact even the accident and murder statistics you provide speaks for itself.

Accidents---for rash driving be it moter bikes, trucks, cycles, cars or hanging from the local trains dangerously . In India there are more men behind the wheel than women.

Murders----Gang wars, night brawls and many more. It is more men involved in these crimes than woman.

How can you blame women for all of these?

Mere statistics are no bases to judge the authenticity of any allegation

Ms. Anouradha,

Here is a Patriarchal man who wants the father-in-law and mother-in-law of Pooja Chauhan to be paraded naked.

He writes:
"Its her in-laws that shud be 'paraded ' stripped in the streets of Rajkot than this already harrassed girl!!"


http://karmicland.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1183710404


This is what feminists and Patriarchy create in the society.

This is the very reason, we SIFF guys use all kinds of language against feminists.

Calling for parading accused in streets, being castrated, being hanged in public, what kind of attitude is that?

The radical feminist alarmism is eagerly patriarchal morons who want to see the elderly mother-in-law naked.

Okay.

All men are criminals and all women are saints.

Put all the 10% males of India (5 crores) and their family members (20 crores) in jails if that solves the problem.

Otherwise, exterminate all men!!

As suggested by one great saint, "men's mothers and sisters should also be paraded naked."

Mothers and sisters of 10% of all men in India will be approximately 15 crores. So, as you all guys are so smart and intelligent, parade them all in the streets before putting them in jail.


Ms.Anouradha,

Social activists like you have bought the country to this situation.

Gaurav,

If woman dies in an accident, then it is bride burning. If man is driven to suicide, then it is accident.

It is patriarchal mindsets which make men competitive, risk taking and convert them into unpaid bodyguards.

These men live dangerously as they are stuck in their role of protectors and providers.

So, men sacrifice their lives for family and society. Men take to crime primarily because of feeding their family or mental harassment by patriarchal society.

The women accused of murdering has risen 10% in last one year in India.

When there will be complete gender equality, women will also commit equal number of murders as men and they will also die in equal numbers in accidents (best example is Kalpana Chawla).

Yes Sumanth, laws are equal for everyone. Mere mention of the 498a puts the MIL, SIL --the women also in jail. SO the laws are equal for everyone.

Whenever a woman takes a bold step be it against her domestic situation, workplace or society in general - the ONLY method used to ridicule her is by shredding her character. It's just so disgusting to face this fact time and time again that we actually live in a society which is mostly occupied and run by bastards.

Enough of "Abla Nari" paradigm.

A man committed suicide jumping from a big building in Karimnagar in front of TV cameras. he was harassed by his wife.

Nothing happened. No one made an issue. The wife or her parents are not even arrested.

For Pooja Chauhan everyone crys for justice, but what about Arif? Why these double standards?

Because, a patriarchal society considers males as disposable and women as indispensible as they produce babies.

Both Kaikeyi and Ganga never punished for their crimes of "torturing husband" in both Ramayana and Mahabharata. No one looked at plight of an injured old and sick Jatayu. Because men are disposable.

Unfortunately, there is an over supply of babies in the country.

Soon women will also be as disposable as men as gender equality gets achieved.

Women in many European countries and in Taiwan have already reached that state.

Indian women will also reach there quickly when no one marries them.

Men are socially conditioned to take care of their elders and in India there is no social security system. The females want men to cut links with elders.

So, men are caught between devil and deep sea.

When one nightstands and cohabitation replace marriage, women will truely get empowered.

Media, Social activists have brainwashed the whole country and the patriarchy is assuming every woman as "abla nari".

If Pooja Chauhan's husband is lying, then he is in serious trouble as the legal system is completely biased against men. Apart from dowry harassment, he will also have to face another 3 to 4 criminal sections for defamation etc.

Our battle is not against any individual. Our battle is against double standards.

Crime is Crime irrespective of Gender. Laws have to be same for all irrespective of Gender.

Otherwise, people will take laws into their hands.

[EDITED - COPY PASTE]

It's got to the point where if see the word 'Sumanth', I automatically skip the comment.

enough of abla nar tamasha.....cut it out. Tha man how jumped from a building

1) why did he wait so long?
2) why did he not report to police
3) Why was no attempt made to report to the police?
4) seems like be was bitten by the movie bug and was doing a Dharmendra.

Stop this hoax that men are victims.

Time and again your statistics are proven wrong

Suicide of the man in public - read the item below -
http://ipc498a.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/a-suicide-in-andhra/

There was no social worker who went to express condolences, nor inquire the welfare of his old parents. No criminal/civil cases registered against Khutizah or her parents.

Except a SIFFer wrote a requiem for the departed soul -

http://poeticjustice-kris.blogspot.com/2007/04/requiem-for-rahim.html

Here is a comment from a blog i came across:
http://ipc498a.wordpress.com/
----------------------------
[EDITED - COPY-PASTE BLATHER]

Hi Anouradha,

I read this piece of news in another paper but your write-up managed to make more of an impression on me. It was sad what the woman had to go through in order to get attention. Whats even more upsetting is having her character questioned and maligned because she had to resort to the extreme.

In reference to your comment #5, believe me, this is just the tip of the iceberg :) Some of these people have reached a point of insensitivity and prejudice where they have deemed every womens' issue a hoax. In fact at least after a while Sumanth's analogies start appealing to a higher sense...a sense of humor. I mean references to characters from Hindu epics??!! For god's sakes, get a grip!

Have people read #26 by Sumanth: "Both Kaikeyi and Ganga never punished for their crimes of "torturing husband" in both Ramayana and Mahabharata. No one looked at plight of an injured old and sick Jatayu. Because men are disposable."

Not only was I laughing my head offf for this analogy, my colleague who was reading made it even funnier by saying "Wasn't Jatayu a bird?" :D

Truth be told, all sections of society, every gender, even different age groups have their own sets of issues. They need to be addressed by society in general. Using the existence of issues faced by one gender to justify/ deny the existence of issues faced by the other gender is petty, immature and at times just plain callous. It is like womens' groups trying to fight child abuse groups claiming their cases are a a hoax and women are abused more than children are. How does it provide any solution?

Anyways, the only thing that makes me sad now is what these guys are losing out on due to their extreme prejudice: they are losing out on the richness of a perspective that is different from theirs. In the walk of life, that sure is a grave loss. And for that loss, my condolences to every Siffer.

Here is the other side of the story from the indian express: http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=244767

I just have one question for all you supporters of this protester. Would you be willing to do this? Would you be proud of a member of your family who'd behave like Pooja Chauhan to highlight their grievance ?

A few months ago, a nitwit of a magistrate issued a warrant against Richard Gere for a harmless peck on the cheek of Shilpa Shetty. The charge was indecency. We have a young mother walking the streets of city in her undies with kids ogling at her, and the establishment doesn't want to press charges against her ?

I have a sickening feeling that we'll become a nation of Paris Hiltons if we don't stop this kind of a nonsense.

Just one thing though, once this lunacy wears off, and the woman comes to her senses, how does she go about pulling all these pics of her off the internet ?

How will she prevent her kids from being taunted ? I am sure that they will hear things like "I have seen your mom in her underwear".

I suggest that in protest of Pooja's stripping down and (falsely?) accusing her in-laws of abuse, all the Siffers should protest too....by stripping in public. Not only will it help their cause of protesting against women who are harased for dowry (irrespective of whether they are telling the truth or not) it will provide some of us on Desicritics with some much needed entertainment at your expense.

Good luck in your fight against abused women and dont forget to take a picture for us you guys!

AnotherObserver,
Next time you have a grievance, how about you show the SIFFERs how to pull off this way of protesting?
Depending upon your gender and what kind of a shape you are in, all of us, desicritics, SIFFERs , etc can be entertained too.
Mind you, you may end up being prosecuted for indecency.

Aditi -
I didnt understand which part of the story appealed to you. Here is an excerpt from Anouradha's writeup -
"Needless to say the case was registered and the in-laws booked. But poor Pooja too was booked for indecent exposure and promptly and convenientlly branded ' mentally disturbed'. "

So, the goal of Pooja chouhan was to book the in-laws. On what - dowry harassment? She tried sevearl methods to accomplish this awesome feat of booking her in-laws - including self-immolation. Are there any burn marks on her body to show that she tried self-immolation? If there were any, the whole world would have seen them when she used a very novel way of protest to "book her in-laws". Is this going to be the feminists' new way of protesting to "book the in-laws"? If yes, all power to you - we will be there in full force with our cameras.

Like they say in UK, "a blind Eddy can see what is happening". Pooja Chauhan has used her feminine body parts as a weapon of blackmail. And that is that.

You dont have to feel sad that the guys are losing out. Truth is contrary. But for some guys pointing out this artifice for what it is, there would not be one contrary opinion. Everyone would have jumped on the bandwagon in lynching the poor husband and in-laws of Pooja Chauhan.

I expected better from an intelligent woman like you.

How is a victim supposed to look? I suppose victims look a lot better when they are a charred body, or missing certain body parts.

And how often have you been a victim to know how people react when utterly hopeless?

I know, in our 'Indian culture', the victim is the meet, sad woman who cries a lot and knocks on the cops' doors to no avail. And people like you can therefore offer a sympathy. A victim who somehow gathers the courage to shame her tormentors - thats is not in 'your' Indian culture.

98 % of all dowry cases are false? Where did you come up with statistic? I can also give you one - 98 % of people who say she is not a victim is likely to kill their wives over dowry, or if there wife shows some guts to stand up to them. 98 % of Indian husbands will stand by their parents if the parents decide to conveniently explode a stove or two. All statements are as valid as your statement.

You know what - people like you just can't take it that a victim managed to do something like this. Perhaps, 98 % of people would like to teach her a lesson in what Indian culture is like, by raping her and parading her naked of course! But oh god, how can SHE do this, it is in our tradition to do it to her, how can she take away our rights?! Generally that is the real reaction of the accusers.

That was the rant. Logically, of course, one understand that she is an individual who may or may not have a real reason.

Anuradha, Deepa and Aditi---please believe me there are good men out there too--who do not take dowry and love women for what they are.

It is no surprise that the language they use, their wives have left them. I can only imagine some basic conversations they are capable of

Btw Aditi...grt you pointed out that Jatayu was a bird, I kinda missed that.LOL. This guy has lost it to the core very core. And his statistics are so loose and all over the place he himself cant gather what he said last.

You may want to read my comments in 19 and 20 where his statistics breathed their last painful breath.

Jatayu may be a bird, but he represented the masculinity. Males are born with a congenital condition called "chivolry". Jatayu sacrificed his life to save an unknown "human" woman from the clutches of a kidnapper. And he paid the ultimate price for that with his life. That men still do sacrifice their lives for women is undeniable. And it will be so, because anything else is denying human evolution itself.

Gaurav - you proved zilch. Statistics are mere numbers. The interpretation you give is the measure of your intelligence or result of social conditioning or the result of propaganda. The numbers are undeniable. Three times more men commit suicide than women. Now, it is a measure of your intelligence to say that all women suicides are a result of male harassment and all men suicides are due to drug abuse.

Unless, there is a peer reviewed scientific study, those conclusions are just conjectures at best; and propaganda at worst.

Kris---

Where did i say that for every suicide the opp gender has to be blamed? Pick a comment and tell me. Copy the sentence and past it in the next comment section.

If you cannot, then stop throwing stats

Go read again ...

Aditi,

Keep dreaming...

There are enough number of reasonable women who love men.

SIFF Activits in New York Chapter create awareness about the cause at a stall in Conference organised by Telugu Association of North America.

TANA.org

They meet all famous people, media and Chandrababu Naidu.

In US, feminists have lost a lot of ground.

The same has started happening in India as well.

We match feminist's 30 years of work by just 2 years of work. So, imagine what will happen in another 2 years.

Even Naomi Wolf warned Indian feminists not to indulge in lies and male bashing at India Today Conclave.

But, has any feminist in India heard anyone's sane advice ever?

But, they will expect everyone to take their advice.

The longer all these biased, fascist laws are sustained by Feminazies, the more people will get suspicious of feminism and feminists.

Then only a few sex starved males will give attention to feminists.

Aditi,

Not all women are male hating feminists. There are women who write about harassment that men face.

http://living.oneindia.in/men/harassment-of-men.html

Harassment of Men

By: Dhanyasree M


Feminism reinforced a binary view of gender relations in which human beings are divided into two clear-cut groups, women and men.

Judith Butler (Gender Trouble)

The harassment of men has nothing in relation with the Women's movement. However there are many negative opinions that since feminism reinforced the difference between women and men, the oppression of men has increased to equalize the oppression of women in society. It is true that feminism has shown a specific division between men and women in society. However this binary view helped to analyze the oppression of women by men for the first time.
...........
..........

Sumanth:
You seem to have been seriously wronged by some woman please accept my condolances. Yes women do perpetuate this inequality towards women and can be harsher to their own kind than men are at times but we men also have to accept resposibility for continuing with such a system.

Devasis

"We were taken aback at the protest. There was no reason for it,"said Commissioner of Police K Nityanandam. In fact, on Tuesday morning, almost 10 hours before Chauhan's semi-nude march, the police had arrested Pratap, his father Rupsinh and sister Hansa.

Why Pratap's sister was arrested when no proof of harassment by her is submitted?

[EDITED - IRRELEVANT COPY-PASTE]

Aditi in 32..

Truth be told, all sections of society, every gender, even different age groups have their own sets of issues. They need to be addressed by society in general. Using the existence of issues faced by one gender to justify/ deny the existence of issues faced by the other gender is petty, immature and at times just plain callous.

If you So why do you prefer selective analysis. Is it because you have some kind of specialization or masters in "women only" victimhood. Why do not you push for cause of all affected? I have not seen any of your balanced views thus far.

Society does not operate as independent units but rather as inter-dependent units. Unless that gets in your head you can not understand even zilch about social issues. If you propose to champion for cause of any section in isolation, you are only contributing to instability in society. Please get you fundas clear before theorizing and making any sweeping statements. In absence of that, you look like intellectual moron craving for attention. Reply back only if you realize the astounding gap/hole in your thinking.

Mr Gaurav..Stop your absurd foolish rants because

Even if you compare suicides due to family reasons men commit suicide 150% more than women. Check out ncrb.nic.in.

Over here I would want to advise you(Gaurav and ilks) something...Why do not you guys/gals guys study/read fact and figures before making your useless generalizations. They are available for free(no subscription fee) and have been pointed out to you umpteen times on this forum.

FF? what? Calm down....I care 2 hoots about your loose statistics and no one here cares.

150% time more..how did you get that? If so , so what? You cannot blame the other gender for one gender's suicide. The day you get this, that day it will be a miracle

Whether u choose not to care or u r blind it does not make a difference to me.

You cannot blame the other gender for one gender's suicide

I think what you essentially meant was, if the suicide was committed by male you can not blame female, however if it was committed by female it surely is because of Dowry. These days I am least affected by double standards of feminists. Once a liar ( 30 years liar ) always a liar.

Kris #40
This is a new revelation Ultruism is a male linked trait as you say they are genetically predesposed for it. Thanks for the heads up and to think the scientific community is wasting all that time trying to find the genes in foolish places like dictyostellum and volvox.

Devasis

"Do you know when over drunken men and men who have over dosed with drugs die, the are also considered suicides. Please check and ask your local municipal hospital."

This again explains(in detail) the miniscule size of your brain and the myopic vision you possess. ncrb data has separate section for people who commit suicide due to drug abuse or over drinking e.t.c. which is different from suicides due to family reasons.(1951 men in 2005 to be precise as against 81 females).

If indeed men do not commit suicide due to wives back at home, how come the rate of suicide is same for females and males in the age group before marriage but suddenly jumps to 2 times(200% more) in the post marriage age group. Any explanations???

Yes FF, I can explain it, but I am pretty sure you will not listen. Please try to understand that this is a clinical perspective, not my own.. and it holds true across societies.

suicide for males is prominent at 2 separate times in their lifespan. one is teenage years, where hormones are surging and boys are more than likely confused and become depressed about their place in society. the second time is the time you mention, post marriage and usually in men 35-50. in this case the men are NOT committing suicide "due to the wives back home." they are committing suicide generally because they look at their lives and like many people regardless of gender become unhappy with what they have achieved and feel hopeless about changing their lot in life. we all think when we are young that we will achieve great things. we can still tell ourselves we will get there when we are in our 20's. by 30's we might still have some hope. but in our late 30's early 40's, when facing the responsibility of family, people can see themselves as "penned in" and unable to change their circumstances. depression sets in and left untreated, this leads to what is called suicidal ideation.

It is not, as you imply, because someone cannot get along with their wife, or she nags, or whatever.

I do hope that you will take this information and try to understand it.

#53 - "ultruism" ???? - there s no such word, but if you meant, Altruism - I did not mean to use that term. Not applicable.

I said "chivalry". (I misspelt it inadvertently).

Yes, indeed Chivalry is a congenital male condition. You see it everywhere - when the hero in Bollywood movie bashes up the villain to save damsel in distress, when the whole apparatus of police scurry around and run to arrest the in-laws when a deranged slut performs a stunt by walking naked on the streets, when the judges offer fat lifetime alimonies for short marriages to a highly qualified wife who deserted her husband and family, when "Gauravs" of this world make half-baked arguments and then pathetically seek confirmation from the opposite sex - the list can go on. That is the problem - Radical feminism thrives on men's chivalry. Chivalry is built on the principle of inequality of sexes. Chivalry considers women to be "weaker sex" and need to be protected. The logical corollary of that is what you see around you -

a) Women are incapable of any wrong.
b) Women are always victims, no matter how eggregious their own behaviour may be. (Remember Girija Vyas' utterances about adultery laws).
c) Males are always the aggressors and perpetrators of violence against women.
d) Other more sensible males (of "Gaurav" types) have a responsibility to control "Sumanths" and "Kris's" of this world to protect the "weaker sex".

Radical feminists do not want equality. Equality implies several things - Equal pay for equal work, equal punishment for equal crime, equal inheritance rights, equal responsibility in raising children and so on.

The interesting thing about Indian Feminism - they dont support any of the above. Even if some not-so-radical feminist utters a token support for real equality, they do not do anything about it.

Devasis - Hope you are educated on the male condition called "chivalry". In summary, it is the condition that makes one man screw the other to curry a woman's favor.

suicide for males is prominent at 2 separate times in their lifespan

In the teen agegroup...despite hormones the suicide rate of females in India is almost comparable to that of males. For "ANY" age-group after marriage why does it get worse only for men. BTW, this happens for all age groups 30-45, 45-60 and 60 and above. This male centric depression does not leave him till he is dead and the ratio (m:f) gets bad to worse as the age increases. Informal claims suggest a similar curve for abuses from Wives(physical, emotional, verbal e.t.c).

Secondly I do not think anybody commits suicides just because he/she sees hollowness in his/her goals or achievements. They commit suicide because they think they have become useless to the near and dear ones and that they are reminded day in day out about it. Most people commit suicide when they are emotionally torn in pieces by their own near and dear ones(either directly or indirectly). Things like goals in life e.t.c are so very gradual that they generally do not translate into suicidal intentions, it is mostly impulsive tendency which results into suicide and such tendency has a direct bearing on the environment in which an individual resides.

# 55 - Smallsquirrel - Your analysis about male suicides makes some sense. However, there is enough anecdotal evidence to show that many male suicides in the 35-50 age range are due to marital problems, which many analysts try to mask as "unhappiness" about their achievements, mid-life crisis and so on. Until, there is a scientific study (if there is one already, I am not aware of) of the true causes of higher rates of male suicides, we cannot address the issue.

I really appreciate if you can throw similar light on female suicides. In India, it is an unchecked hoax perpetuated by the media and feminists that all female suicide is due to male harassment. In fact, in every case of suicide of a married woman, the entire extended family of the man is arrested and presumed guilty. Then, they have to expend enormous amounts of money, years of their lives and effort to fight the corrupt criminal justice system to exonerate themselves. There is not even an acknowledgement of this gross injustice by any human rights organizations or social service organisations, let alone help and support. Some organizations like Amnesty International are actively encouraging the practice. Once I came to know about Amnesty's support for such draconian laws, I promptly terminated my charitable contributions to it.

no FF, people do NOT commit suicide because of other people. just like other people cannot save someone from suicide. they commit suicide because they become clinically depressed and cannot cope with things anymore. they no longer see hope in their lives for whatever reason. suicide is NOT an impulsive tendency, as you mention. it is a very well thought out exit from life that people choose when they are profoundly depressed and do not want t o live any more. they focus on it for a long time and usually plan it for days or weeks. it is not, as you imply, some spur of the moment thing.

there are many people with happy and loving marriages, wonderful kids and good careers who commit suicide. it is about clinical depression and how they view their lives, not about someone at home nagging.

Kris... as I mentioned, people commit suicide because of profound depression, male or female. What triggers this depression is dependent on the individual. they could feel trapped in an abusive relationship they want out of (male or female) and see no way of achieving that. but for any person not prone to serious clinical depression, that person is not likely to suicide for only that reason.

it is just that really you cannot blame another person for the ultimate act per se. People can be "unhelpful" in not noticing signs of depression. But if someone is not in the depths of a clinical depression, another person's action or inaction will not lead them to suicide.

Serious abuse (by a male or female) of the kind that puts an already depressed person in a crisis could and usually does hasten some kind of action.

I would agree that not all female suicides would be caused by male abuse. Women would commit suicide for the same reasons as men. Now in the last example that I mentioned, it is possible that a woman would commit suicide if her spouse was continually emotionally or physically abusive. And yes, the same holds true for men. If a man was in a position where he was being abused mentally or physically he could become depressed and commit suicide. These chances are equal for both men and women.

A few indications in the US for higher rates of male suicide include: a higher tendency for severe substance abuse, a higher tendency to not seek or adhere to treatment for serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia), societal pressure to not seek counseling for for depression, and societal pressure to not admit the need for help when feeling overwhelmed.

The following article illustrates, how feminism affected suicide statistics in US. Is there an attempt to emulate the same in India.

http://christianparty.net/suicide.htm.

sorry FF but that link is down.

HOWEVER judging by the URL itself I would guess that the information contained therein is highly biased. You get me stats or studies from the APA or a university or some such other non-biased place I will play ball. Just like you would not want me to quote a study by the National Organization of Women, yeah?

#37 Kris, #47 FF, #42 , #43Siffer:

I do hope you guys take the time to read out my reply in its entirety before you type out your own responses.

Kris, thank you for acknowledging my intelligence. But honestly, I don't think this post or any other similar report requires intellect...it does however require empathy. In Sumanth's post about actor Prashanth you will see that I found it in my heart to relate to men as well as women. I am not selective and honestly I think you guys know this about me but won't admit it.

I am as much against misuse of 498A as I am against dowry harassment. One only needs to be a good human being, a responsible citizen and a person who is able to relate to human suffering as well as is able to speak up against injustice. I have had numerous discussions with you guys and what I like is that some of you (not all, some) do detail cases of section 498A misuse that enlightens me about things, I have to admit, I wasnt very familiar with before. So as a person who is able to distinguish between right and wrong I immediately feel bad for the men and their famillies who had to suffer injustice becoz the section 498A was misused.

In this case, I put myself in the woman's shoes. I don't know what the true story is. But if as a young mother she had to strip down and expose herself to public humiliation to get the attention of police then she must've been pretty frustrated. Now this I conclude only from what is known about the events. Not based on my own knowledge of Pooja Chauhan. Not because she is a woman but because she is a human being. If the report was about a guy stripping down, hanging himself or harming himself to get legal attention, I would similarly present my thoughts on the matter and feel for the guy. Hence when you guys accuse me of being selective towards women, I am confused. None of the women on this forum accused me of being biased towards men when I posted my comment on Sumanth's article about Prashanth.

Here is what I think: lately I have gotten more and more interested in the legal aspects of the handling of section 498A cases. I do realize how scary it must be for a family to be dealing with threats of such a stringent and impenetrable law. I also realize that radical feminism is as malific to society as is male chauvinism. But whenever I try to reach out and make myself more open to your perspective someone makes out of place and unnecessarily rude comments such as the one FF made in #42. It throws me off becoz I'm not even fighting you. Just because we disagree on certain issues does not mean we should resort to disrespectful name calling. Thats immature.

#42 tells me to "keep dreaming" and goes on to explain how there are enough women who love men! Why? Have I ever insinuated that I hate men and am against all men. Do you guys think we don't have brothers, sons? Wouldn't the section 498A affect us at some point of time?

I have a heartfelt and sincere message to you guys: Don't assume that all people are against you. When you are fighting for a cause the best way to strengthen your voice is to gain support from the opposition. The respect of the opposition is more than half the battle won. This cannot be accomplished if you keep attacking the wrong people. We could help you in every way in your cause if you take the opportunity to educate us instead of jumping down our throats every now and then. When people unite for a cause they should set their personal issues aside and give people a chance to help out. If I knew enough about the 498A cases I would be writing about them. I don't, so I try to learn. If you guys attack me it makes me less keen on finding out about the issues you face. How does this help you? In fact it limits the spread of awareness. Your calling other people dumb, foolish, ignorant, hateful...how does this serve your purpose?

If you really and truly care about the suffering endured by the men and their falsely accused families then be their voice. And that voice cannot be an aggressive one. In order to be effective, it has to be an assertive one.

I hope you take my humble suggestions in the right spirit because I mean well and come to think of it have nothing against you, really. I wish you good luck in your cause. Sometimes having the right cause is futile for lack of a good means to serve that cause. I sincerely wouldn't want the seriousness and the urgency of your cause being hampered by such an affliction.

The link seems to work for me...The content is nothing about christens. It has plenty of links to Govt sites. We should depend of Govt statistics linked on website than any statistics provided by the site itself.

As for suicide statistics in India
Refer.

http://www.maithrikochi.org/india_suicide_statistics.htm
The m:f ratio change over years...

YR Number of M suicides per 1000 Fem suicides.
1989 1409
1990 1426
1991 1441
1992 1453
1993 1449
1994 1447
1995 1420
1996 1382
1997 1423
1998 1433
1999 1452
...
...
2004 1760 ( See ncrb.nic.in)
2005 1770 ( See ncrb.nic.in)

I do not have data for intermediate years.
However broadly speaking the swell in economy(Globalization) has financially benefited most people(per capita income has increased) so any finance factor probably should have milder impact than expected. That said, I admit the conclusion is still very crude.

Well I may be slightly off in my conclusion in 62, because even though Globalization may have increased income of an individual, but since more and more women are participating in jobs at equal levels(in the last decade), hence the number of men may be getting a hit...So finance factor could be an important factor and can not be ruled out in totality.

FF.. got onto the site... not really gonna trust any conclusion from these people as they are clearly warped... they have a whole section dedicated to saying that the holocaust was a hoax. they also say african americans in the US are exclusively responsible for AIDS, and AND THEY WANT TO EXILE ALL BLACKS FROM THE US....this website is *really* offensive and racist.... you really need to find a better source of information if you want ppl to take you seriously.

Has anyone noticed this piece of news?

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=244767

Pooja case: One yr, 4 police complaints

Over a period of more than one year, there have been four police complaints with respect to Pooja Chauhan. But all those complaints were not filed by Pooja. According to records of Gandhigram Police Station, on February 16, 2006, Pooja tried to commit suicide by consuming poison. But when an executive magistrate recorded her statement, she denied that there was any harassment either by her husband or in-laws. "I have no complaints against my husband and mother in-law. They have never beaten or assaulted me. I took this step because I felt bad about what my mother-in-law told me," she had then said.Then came a complaint on March 7, 2007 filed by Pooja's husband Pratap at Gandhigram Police Station. The complaint said that Pooja had been mentally and physically harassing Hansaba, Pratap's mother.On the same day, Pooja registered a cross-complaint, alleging that her husband and brother-in-law were harassing her.Then the couple together registered a complaint on May 31, 2007. They alleged that their neighbour Satiben and her brother Ranchod had harassed them.Police say they took action whenever there was a complaint. "In the attempt to suicide case, an FIR was not lodged as Pooja gave a clean chit to her in-laws," said Commissioner of Police K Nityanandam.

that being said... please clarify your point. are you saying that you think socioeconomic conditions are a primary factor contributing to suicide?

Also, news articles say that Pooja Chauhan is the wife of a construction worker and the daughter of a rag picker. I am wondering where the pretty looking bra and panties, the purse and baseball bat materialized from considering she is such a "hapless" woman. Just wondering...no offense.

Looks like there is more to the Pooja story that needs to be looked at.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=244851

Pooja alcoholic, into flesh trade: Husband
Express News Service
Sunday , July 08, 2007

Rajkot, July 07: Pooja Chauhan's husband Pratap Chauhan has alleged that his wife is an alcoholic and indulged in flesh trade.

Pratap has also alleged that Pooja was married before marrying him.

In a written statement released to the media, Pratap, a labourer from Shantinagar slums on the 150-feet ring road, said that one Pratima Deepak, who resides near Amrapali Cinema, is Pooja's agent. "Together they have been running the illegal activity of prostitution," he said in the statement.

Pratap, who has been summoned by the First Class Judicial Magistrate on July 10 in connection with a case filed by Pooja alleging him of mental and physical harassment, said that it was in fact Pooja who had been cheating and harassing his family since their marriage in 2004.

According to him, they got married on April 3, 2004. At the time of the marriage, she declared that she was an orphan. "But later I discovered that her parents were alive and she was already married to one Bhupat Gohil before marrying me," he said in the statement.

Pratap further said that he found her to be an alcoholic who would often physically and mentally harass his mother Hansaba. A month back, he had registered a complaint against Pooja in this regard at Gandhigram Police Station.

Thanks Aditin in 61 and my apologies if you think it would help.

I would appreciate, if you can use the same spirit and acumen to displace women in NCW. We need more and more married, settled and family loving women at NCW. A happily married spouse (a mother and a wife) has the best chance to recommend sensible suggestions. Most (if not all) of the women in NCW have themselves undergone a bad marriage and they are sitting up there mindlessly venting out frustration on the rest of the men. I personally feel every woman who participates in making of such family laws at NCW, should have at-least one son and one daughter and have a happy married life.

Aditi.. I concur 1000%.

I am encouraged, however, that it seems like FF is engaging in constructive dialog. Kris got partway there in #56 but is still using some rhetoric. But it was toned down significantly. So kudos, guys. This is how understanding comes along. If we can all agree to respect each other and not call names, attack people, make sweeping ridiculous generalizations... we might get somewhere.

SS in 61.. The only thing I gave a close look on that website was the suicide bar graph. I generally do not imbibe analysis.

SS in 66.. Frankly speaking I do not know. I have too less data to make any definitive conclusion.

I cannot belive the sympathies generated for the naked Pooja Chauhan, while she had powerful feminist sitting in this desicritcis.

To you all two cents shameless feminists,
case was registered on Jun 29,
they were arrested on Jul 04,
still it was not enough for her,
she wants them to paraded like she was, at the expense of tax payer dollars, while playing in the hands of the Times of India reporter, Kulsum.

watch her video,she openly demands the harassment of the women (mother in law, sister in laws) and her husband, while roaming around in undies, which were given to her by her first, second, third... husband.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Driven_to_despair/articleshow/2178332.cms

It seems desperation has no ends, like you feminists here, you want to destroy anything and everything.

JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED.
One needs to check the bank accounts of the cops.

------------------------------------------------

National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) has served a notice to city police commissioner for the alleged delay in police action on a dowry harassment complaint by Pooja Chauhan who had semi nude on the streets to highlight her grievance.

Police Commissioner K Nityanandam has been asked by NHRC to submit his reply within seven days, police said today.

Chauhan alleged police was delaying action against her husband and mother-in-law and she walked to the Police Commissioner's office on Tuesday in her undergarments demanding action on her complaint.

She alleged the two had repeatedly harassed her for dowry.

However, according to Gandhigram police inspector Sardarsinh Zala, the two had been arrested even before Chauhan's protest walk.

Chauhan had attempted suicide on June 29 by torching herself in the premises of local crime branch of the police but was saved, Zala said, adding police did not waste time and arrested the mother-son duo a couple of days after the suicide attempt.

----------------------------------------

Where are the men who claim that the case is false, why are they not coming out in the open to support ?

Raji:

1. The first article is about my dad and how he inculcated values into his daughters while supporting my mother in her career. If you guys are truly a Save Indian Family organization then you should know what articles detail the essence of a family, right?

2. The second one is titled Shrek, Feminism & Men's Issues and brings attention to a few men's issues that have been neglected. So by providing a link to that particular post you have succesfully demonstrated how little you guys read of the actual article and how much the mere mention of the word feminism inflames you. So its not about principles, its about labals?

3. The third is a piece of fiction written by Amrita...a story, not a narration of personal history. I honestly cannot perceive what place that ref has in here.

So what was your point?

#74,

So, the cops did their job of arresting the mother and son, or did they not? If they did arrest the accused why did Pooja Chauhan have to strip and parade?

Aditi - The idea of the writer of this article and many others you see in the media is to appeal to the visceral, raw emotions of general population. Often, this is done by taking one isolated anecdote and generalizing it to the billion population of our country. When I appealed to your intelligence, I was hoping that intelligent and discerning people like yourself do not jump on to the bandwagon based on visceral reaction to an isolated episode.

Did you observe, I posted a link earlier in this thread about one Mr. Rahim committing suicide in broad day light, with the police watching, due to false cases of harassment against him. He was a poor autorikshaw driver. His wife burned her hands while cooking. Sensing blood, her father pounced in and filed a dowry harassment case against him - three years after the marriage. Rahim paid one lakh rupees (imagine how difficult that must have been for him) to settle with his in-laws and got a divorce through religious authorities. After taking the settlement money, the lady's father still pursued the case. Why would nt he? He didn't have to fight it, the government lawyers would do his bidding at taxpayer's expense. Rahim, the indigent auto-rikshaw driver exploited from all sides, was left with no choice but to end the misery. Such a heart-rending story - not one journalist did a followup on that, not one social services organization visited the family - if anything, the whole establishment, as is often the case, blamed the victim. Has anyone of you paid any attention to that story? Instead, you were busy making fun of the mention Jataayu in Sumanth's post.

You are all busy defending your egos. If you are righteous in your convictions, some one person's personal attack (however misplaced it maybe) should not alter you from your convictions, or deter you from action following those convictions. Please do not say you would subscribe to a certain viewpoint as a favor, as a charity, only when certain conditions on the other side are met.

Coming back to the Pooja Chauhan's story - everyone quickly came to the conclusion that - "if she was willing to stake her modesty to get her in-laws arrested, how bad the abuse may have been". That is the visceral reaction. Truth lies usually somewhere in between the extreme views. There was an article yesterday in Daily Pioneer titled "Media seeking mileage" that a particular print media journalist put her up to this stunt - he being the only one with a video camera to capture the event. He later bartered that video to many media outlets for unknown favors. All media showed the same footage.

We all need to get out of this mind set that women are ALWAYS victims and women can do no wrong. Women are human beings too. We all have sisters, mothers and daughters. Women are just as vulnerable to human follies as men are. Don't jump onto the bandwagon based on emotional narratives from feminist journalists. They have vested interests in perpetuating the victimhood upon women. Feminist organizations have vested interests too - the flow of funds depends upon such perpetuation. Their raison-detre depends upon coming up with more such studies, more such stories. The stories of genuine victims, victims who are not upto such stunts as Pooja Chauhan, they often get side tracked or get lumped with such publicity stunts and lose attention. On the other hand, some scheming woman may get emboldened by the sympathy garnered by Pooja and may try to pull off something similar or worse to gain attention or wreak vengeance.

Now, please dont tell me, no woman would stake her modesty unless the oppression were so bad to warrant it. That is placing women above the normal human pedestal. Internalize this - women are human too, as capable of any other human being and as vulnerable to the same follies. After all, is nt that the whole idea of gender equality movement?

#78: Kris

Appreciate the response. Pls take the time to read out my reply. I have noticed at times that some of you question me about something I have already clarified in my last comment.

I do understand your perspective and even subscribe to the part where you say women shouldn't always be portrayed as the victims. Ill-defined feminism has led to bullying by radical women's groups. The only way this can be changed for the current generation of women is by dissociating those anti-male, abla naari fundas from feminism. Feminism historically was supposed to be about empowering women to be independent and as you say some women's organizations for their vested interests have turned it into a man-hating scheme that projects women as damsels in distress. If you read my articles you will notice that I try as much as possible to deviate from those definitions when using the word feminism.

I may offer my sympathies to both cases Prashanth's and Pooja Chauhan's but it will take a lot more convincing for me to as a journalist or even as a citizen pledge my support to either of these parties without knowing the full extent of their cases and being completely convinced of their innocence. Until then, I treat it like a news report not like a personal agenda that I favor. So if you think I'm jumping onto any bandwagon let me assure you, I'm not. I am open to both possibilities: that actor Prashanth may not be entirely guilt-free or that this lady Pooja Chauhan had other motives. I don't pronounce the verdict of their guilt or innocence. I only offer my thoughts as and when the case builds.

There are very few, select causes that I choose to be involved in and do so only if I have some personal expertise in finding a solution.

That being said, I meant every suggestion (#61) I put forward for your consideration in all sincerity. It may be my up-bringing or call it my naivety, I like to believe in the decency of people. When people make harsh comments that derail good, fruitful discussions I am less inclined to follow that line of discourse.

You are right, your comments etc should not discourage me from following my own convictions. However if you guys are truly interested in increasing awareness about the misuse of this section you will have to give people a reason to believe in this cause first. Not everybody knows as much about it as you do. So educate us. Don't shoot us down when we try to approach you. There is power in numbers. If you have more people becoming aware of the section 498A misuse issues, more people supporting your cause, there will be media interest generated and more petitions made. It will only work towards benefitting your cause.

You say: "Now, please dont tell me, no woman would stake her modesty unless the oppression were so bad to warrant it."

I won't because I don't speak for all women. I speak for myself and hence I clarified in #61 that my sympathy for Pooja Chauhan doesnt immediately prove my absolute belief of the media portrayal of her circumstances.

I would like to add that Rahim's story is very sad (now this I say based on what you've told me). It is also very unfortunate that media often caters to existing or popular idealogies. Women have always been portrayed as victims and men as perpetrators and hence media caters to this precast roles when reporting. I agree, it needs reform. Once the image of an Indian woman undergoes metamorphosis and emerges as that of a strong, independent woman instead of that of an abla nari, that particular media reform will also occur.

Till then, as citizens and adults with sometimes conflicting opinions, we owe it to each other to allow our discussions and exchanges to be peaceful, productive and mutually respectful.

Thank you for your comments and discussion.

Regarding Rahim's story, you can refer to the links I posted in #30. The pdf document there contains the actual newspaper clippings with photos of stages in the descent of this young man on his way to death.

This query is off the track,

Are Deepti Lamba and Aaman Lamba related in same way

According to data obtained (using RTI) from the Ministry of Home Affairs, in the year 2005 alone, 58,319 cases were registered under charges of cruelty by husband and relatives (IPC 498A), and resulted in the arrest of 127,560 individuals including 339 children and 4,512 adults over the age of 60. In the same year, 15, 409 individuals were arrested in Andhra Pradesh, including 417 senior citizens and 14 children.
The Supreme Court of India has labeled the misuse of section 498A as "legal terrorism" (BUT NOT THE LAW AS SUCH)

98% women are victims of dowry, torture, harassment, misuse of religious laws, verbal abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse in India but these cases never get recorded. We have to spread more awareness.

Recently Pooja Chauhan whose husband had bribed the cops to avoid giving her a FIR is one such case. She had to resort to dire measures to be heard.
**Today her husband has been arrested.
**The Commissioner has to provide an explanation for not giving her an FIR

There are so many women out there who never know that such a law exists?

80% men in a notorious men's group do not care about their child and prefer to make a contract with their children in return to be taken care of in old age. ( refer comment 58--Tamil Actor)

We have to spread more awareness and bring the crooks to justice

Another Anon,
Quoting you "98% women are victims of dowry, torture, harassment, misuse of religious laws, verbal abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse in India but these cases never get recorded. We have to spread more awareness."
Can you please provide the source of this statistic?

Arjun,

Please ask anon ( kris) from the previous comments above . They will tell youwhich courts to go to. All the information is in the courts to see. Even if you stand outside the police station, just see how many women are turned away where the cops do not want to write FIR.

For the rest of the information , please check the same sources provided by Kris ( anon ) and the others. Do you know where the courts are? if not ask Kris or Anon

Some hypocrite creatures make a false claim that
98% of all Indian Women are victims, which makes all families conclude that women's lives are full of sufferings and hence women are burdens.

So, the families resent, when they have a girl child as they feel this girl will suffer all her life (and bring miersy to family) believing the false notions propaganted by satanic creatures funded by western Intelligence agencies.

So, the society falsely assumes that girls are victims and burdens. The society as a whole does not see that a boy has 3 times more chances of dying due to un-natural causes (than girl) and hence a boy can in fact bring more tears to the family.

So, feminists and other hypocrite creatures contribute to promotion of gender selection and abortion of female unborn. As it happens, these disgusting creatures raise a hue and cry that society is considering women as a burden and hence 98% of all women are victims.

So, they basically deceive the society and also themselves with this "circular logic" and indulge in hypocrisy for which society pays a huge price.

Yet, like blood thristy politicians these creatures do not ever stop.

Karma wil certainly teach these creatures beautiful lessons. What all these creatures have harmed innocents and the unborn children, they will pay dearly.

So, far as SIFF is concerned, we are doing a noble act by freeing society from these disgusting hyocrite evil satanic antinational creatures.

All the radical feminists have gone into hiding since last 2 months as they are ashamed of showing their faces in TV.

"All the radical feminists have gone into hiding since last 2 months as they are ashamed of showing their faces in TV."


Hello.....you moron, you are commenting on a thread where Pooja Chauchan took to the streets to protest with lots of GUTS

No one is gone into hiding.

Please check other links on this site, where you pals ( kris, sumanth, anons etc etc) were not able to provide any statistics or proof. why should we beleive you , you who may have done the rounds of the courts too.

Do you know how many red alert notices are issued against men. why are they HIDING? If they are innocent, come out in the open. Cowards.

You are commenting a thread where the
author is a woman,
most of the commentators are woman and t
he topic is on a woman.
No one is in hiding

Who is hiding, where, name one person. Comon name atleast a 50 women who are hiding , or on whom red alert notices have been issued, or who are out on bail.

98% women are victims of dowry, torture, harassment, misuse of religious laws, verbal abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse in India but these cases never get recorded. We have to spread more awareness

Men are raising a false alarm these days because they know that their money makeing days are over, if they act smart or raise their hand, the cops are on the way to arrest them

So better behave.

It is alleged that Pooja Chauhan is paid by some agencies and some media people to do what she did.

It is also alleged that the some media agencies remained ready with cameras to capture she walking semi-naked.

As the pressure started building up with Pooja Chauhan to be arrested for indecent exposure, it is alleged that the opportunists suspected Pooja may spill the beans. So, it is alleged they made sure that Pooja is shifted to some undisclosed location and cool down the whole story.

So, Pooja Chauhan in not traceable since last 3 days.

Kris #54:
If Chivalry means giving up something for the benefit of another and not " one man screw the other for his own benefit" then it comes under the perview of altruistic behavior(sorry for the spelling). I mentioned to stress the fact that it is not a male monopoly and is shared with women and all social organisms. Chivalry though associated with men is not a superior charcteristic absent from women just another name for a common trait.

As for the article you have cases where women is the victim and cases where the man is. You are in denial if you think that in our society women are not exploited for dowery and similarly it would be foolish thing to think that there aren't women who misuse the law to their own advantage. What I don't understand is why jump to the extreme concliusion that all women are opportunistic.

Devasis

Ms.Anouradha,

Ultimately truth will prevail.

Indian express

Karadia Rajput Samaj leaders from across Gujarat came to rescue of her husband Pratap Chauhan and in-laws. The community demanded arrest of Pooja and custody of her daughter alleging harassment by Pooja to mother-in law Hansaba.

In a memorandum to Commissioner of Police K Nityanandam the community leaders said that Hansaba, who is a TB patient, has been mentally and physically harassed by Pooja alias Hansa Parmar, who at the time of marriage with Pratap in 2004 lied that she was an orphan and unmarried.


"For often harassing Hansaba she must be arrested and custody of two-and-half-year-old Anjali, should be given to the father'', said leaders including Dinesh Vaghela and Jayesh Parmar. Pratap produced a copy of an FIR that he had registered at Gandhigram police station against Pooja on March 12, 2006 for harassing her mother. He had alleged that Pooja was into flesh trade, drank alcohol and beat his mother.

The community alleged that someone instigated Pooja to go for a semi-nude parade. "There has to be a fair investigation to find out who prompted Pooja," they said.

The community leaders said Pooja gave wrong details about herself to Pratap at time of marriage.

While her parents are still alive, she called herself orphan and hid the fact that she was married to one Bharat Gohil and had not taken divorce.

Let us see how NHRC and NCW will find who is the real culprit (ie Pooja or her mother-in-law)?

Or will they just try to find some route for a hasty retreat?

We always asked why police have to arrest people without evidence or investigation?

Why NHRC, UN, UNICEF, Amnesty International vehemently oppose any modifications to such brutal fascist procedures?

Dev,

You asked, "why jump to extreme conclusions?"

If Radical feminists are given a free run to force extreme conclusions on the society, then why masculists also should not jump to extreme conclusions.

Masculist extreme conclusions = Feminist extreme conclusions

That way we will get gender equality.

Feminists propagated extreme lie that 70% of India women face Domestic Violence. All papers published it and never published an appology when it was proven beyond doubt that this fact is a lie.

I do not see anyone question feminists for their extreme behaviour ?

May I know why only men are singled out?

When Justice JD Kapoor, judge in Delhi High Court gave a judgement in 2003 saying that Minors must not be arrested in false dowry cases, some top feminists of India broke furniture in Delhi High Court.

Why feminists have privilege to have extreme views, extreme actions?

It is feminists who portray all men as evil. Reasonable men at most ignore them.

Now, enough is enough. By ignoring these feminists, men have contributed to creation of a frankenstein monster.

If all men are evil, then all women are also evil.

If all mothers-in-law are evil, then all daughters-in-law are also evil.

"We did not Start the Fire."


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[EDITED- PERSONAL], there are Interpol Red Corner notices on Indian women as well who are wanted in US.

Life is a Mirror.

So, better behave.

Where are Girija Vyas, Shabana Azmi, Burundi Carrot, Indira Jaisingh, Flavia Agnes and Kalpana Sharma?

Where they all have gone?

We are missing the Fun...

Some creature writes,

"98% women are victims of dowry, torture, harassment, misuse of religious laws, verbal abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse in India but these cases never get recorded. We have to spread more awareness"

That implies 98% of Indian men are abusers. Lets put them all in jail one by one.

Lets start with 98% of Male Parliament Members.

Then lets identify that 98% males in Indian Judiciary.

Then lets find those 98% male abusers in Indian Bureaucracy.

Then lets arrest 98% of all male political leaders.

Siffer #90:
I would be the last person to say all women are angels and can't do no wrong. They make mistakes as do we. it is up to us to find out the mistakes and try to correct them. An extreme point of view is not going to change with another extreme view, it will only harden their respective stands. You have to resort to reason to find a viable solution as aditi mentioned in one of her comments. I grant many of the laws have scope for abuse but try to look at it from the other perspective in case of torture, harrasment and rape can you really expect any other valid evidence othr than that of the victims testimony. Do you expect there to be a witness to testify on her behalf. If there is an alternative more viable solution we should be discussing it. That would be more meaningful. As to point #89 Gujarats social justice please spare me I have lived there long enough to know the hipocricy in such situatons. I would suggest you be less vitriolic and start thinking with a cool mind towards solutions. About the advertisement must you insist on putting your foot in your mouth, you give justificaton for women to think of us as irrational bigots.

Devasis

Dev... you said,

I grant many of the laws have scope for abuse but try to look at it from the other perspective in case of torture, harassment and rape can you really expect any other valid evidence other than that of the victims testimony.

Yes, There certainly can be evidences other than victims testimony. In case of rape, medical examination and physical marks are the preliminary evidence. In case of torture there are physical marks as evidences. In case of verbal harassment either a tape recorder(can be bought for less than Rs 1000) can be a evidence or someone who was present in person can be evidence. If one was to register every case based of sole testimony why only limit it to women and why not extend to any alleged aggrieved including the husband and family. If we start accepting testimonies as verdicts then every one of the billion in this country would have a case filed against him.

Dev,

How do you know that I am not doing anything with a cool mind? Please note, this movement is more than 3 years old and if we are not cool guys then we would have joied asylum by now.

You feel only rational, logical discussions lead to solutions and reactive behaviours do not. That is correct and that is also incorrect. It all depends on situation.

You can have a meaningful discussion only when people on the otherside have an open mind.

I am afraid, when we started people (media, journalists, feminists, Govt, common people), no one had any open mind towards the issues faced by men, boys of their family members. Everyone used to think is black and white.

In such a situation, when a man sat in hunger strike for abuse he faced from wife, the society used to laugh at him.

Please go thorough any literature on, "how to deal with a situation, when your opponents have closed minds with blindfolds"?

One of the methods is to do something outrageous which wakes up people. This is followed by rational discussions.

Feminists did it by burning bras, by breaking chairs in courts and by going semi-naked in the street.

So, we also do the things the same way.

Our aim is not to convince people, but to wake them up from their sleep so that their minds can track the truth.

Once people wake up, we leave them to be on their own.

Aditi is not the same person she was 2 months back. Anyone who has come across SIF, their perspectives have changed.

We were advised by a feminist in 2005 July that we must go for dialogue. Tell me, can you have dialogue with a bunch of extremists for whom the only truth is that men are criminals.

Girija Vyas, Renuka Choudhury, Indira Jaisingh, Ranjana Kumari have not given any room for us for a dialogue.

Please note, SIFF counsels women who get abused or are taken for granted by their husbands or their families.

We will continue to talk in a vitrolic tone as it works for us. You know feminists will accuse you in anycase of being a MCP and bigot.

We are very happy if someone calls us as bigots, MCPs, MFs and bastards. We have taken all that happily.

How many days will they call us bigots, MCPs? One day or other they will get tired. Then we will call them pro-choice (pro-abortion) child killers.

Will they tolerate that?

When we have a cause, we will do what we believe. Our members are highly educated and we have powerful review mechanisms.


Radical Feminism is not a cool movement.

Radical Feminism is an angry movement.

The best way to defeat them is to keep them angry (always). That will direct their anger into themselves and that anger will destroy them internally. You can not keep people angry with a cool, mild tone.

And it is working. :)

We know radical feminists would be reading it.

But, we know they are helpless and they can not stop being angry.

We are cool in spite of facing jails, they are angry in spite of victories.

Please note, even today media is biased 80% in favour of feminists. We made this 20% in roads in last 2 years just because of our tone.

I conclude that most bloggers are inherently incapable of thinking logically, when "politically correct" issues come up.

I also conclude that Indian bloggers are far from freeing themselves from popular stereotypes created by a few influential people in media.

It is not at all suprising in a country, where people look towards fascist dynastic rule even in 21st century.

Is it hypocrisy?

Comment 86 called Siffer a moron, it was not edited.

Comment 91 called the commentator 86 a moron (because of mirror effect), but it was edited.


Who is more dangerous, a criminal or a mirror?

siffer... I would encourage you to read what I wrote to Sumanth above. Same applies to you. Tis whole thing about "waking people up" is kinda backfiring, especially in this forum. See, for the most part, we are already people who are awake and are ready and willing to listen to diverging viewpoints. What you do by engaging in personal attacks and using hyperbole and rhetoric is make us want to STOP listening, rather than strongly consider your viewpoint.

despite what you think, making people angry doesn't make them direct their anger into themselves so they self-destruct. it makes them think you are ridiculous, stop listening, and conclude that you have nothing valuable to say, even if you do. You might think it is working, but it really isn't. I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying it to help you.

You seem to be implying above that this tactic is responsible for people like Aditi being willing to understand what you have to say. Now, I cannot speak for her, but if she is anything like I think she is, that is not the case. She wrote a plea (similar to mine to Sumanth) asking for the rhetoric to be toned down as well. The probability is that she also already had an open mind and you almost closed it. I can definitely say that is the case with me. It was her own (and my own) perseverance that allowed her to stay in a dialog when you and others were really not talking.. only shouting... to be heard.

Aditi... sorry if I have spoken out of turn. pls correct me if I am wrong.

Will this author add the supplement to her story, and addendum of Khardia Samaj and the FIR of Mar 12.

Will these same FEMINIST who claim themselves to be just, open minded and rational, STAND UP and demand arrest of Pooja Chauhan, and paraded in the same chudi she was carrying while naked, and demanding the same shamelessly naked, even when her in-laws were arrested.

#99: smallsquirrel:

The issue isn't that they think we are not open. They know it. They don't want to accept it or diginify it. Look at #100. I advise people to click on the link that this person has provided and see that it opens up to a FICTIONAL story by Amrita. How that indicates that I am promoting adultery for feminism, god alone knows. It saddens me that when I'm trying to express interest in their issue they would malign my character thus on a public forum. This makes me at times wonder if they do this to other women who they are fighting: malign their characters without due cause.

The sad part is that because of a few bad representatives both women's issues and men's issues have taken and will take a back seat. People have always been wary of extremists they be radical feminists or radical masculists.

Dear SIF Members,

When I first started writing here I had no idea that there was a section called 498A and that women misused it. No clue. Most times Sumanth and a few others would write these long messages criticizing feminism and I never really read those believing them to be trolls. I was new and didn't know that they actually had a cause. Then one day I took the time to read a message by one of the SIF members Kris, I think, and he had detailed a case of section 498A.

Kris has usually answered my honest questions instead of unleashing vitriolic comments and hence I have to thank him for enlightening me about the section 498A. I now see his name and I take the time to read the comments. I make myself more aware and open. I bring these issues up in discussions with friends who are in the media and can if they wanted to, do something about it.

Then came along Shanti (who I am almost positive is Mani and the commentator SS above, the English is unmistakable) and they make harsh, disconnected personal comments that after a while don't even make sense. It makes me wonder if that is how the organization is...you know, full of extremist, anti-women members who cannot accept a woman even writing a short story about an extra marital affair for god's sakes. Nobody is promoting anything...its a story!!

All these things have made me very wary of trying to be involved: why? Becoz I am afraid of extremism and I'd much rather be a silent observer than jump in not knowing what kind of people they are. Otherwise, if I had seen more rational comments, more approachability I would've considered getting my gear and interviewing these people for a documentary film in this last visit. I gave quite a few other issues my time. But time and again they scare me. I don't like being scared of the organization I want to pledge my support to.

I told Kris and FF this on another post and I wish they would talk to their associates and make this a little more clear. Fighting people who are not against you and may even want to support you is like intentionally damaging your own cause. And as I said earlier if you guys truly care about the sufferring of the men and their families who have been falsely accused in section 498A cases then you wouldn't do this to them.

Now about the Pooja Chauhan case: I don't know enough about the case. What I do know is through media reports. I can offer sympathies to the families and especially the little girl caught in the middle of this media circus but how do I demand Pooja Chaunhan's arrest without knowing the case? Wouldn't that be similar to what you guys say the Section 498A does: arrest guys without adequate proof? If you guys think that in order to prove that I am open and rational I have to demand Pooja Chauhan's arrest then I am sorry to say, I won't do it. I will wait for a few more facts to be revealed before making such a rash and uninformed decision and that I believe will truly demonstrate my openness and rationale.

Somebody here suggested that I was a different person when I got here from what I am now: I would like to offer an explanation. I was always a very open person and had it not been for your overtly aggressive approach I would've seen your point much sooner. All you had to do was tell me about it and explain facts to me with good, solid references. Isn't that what eduacted people do when spreading awareness about their respective causes?

aditi... yes, we're saying the same things. I agree... yet again.

but I am tired of this runaround bullshit. look at SS in #101. I will NOT stand up because I do not know the facts. I am not some person who just assumes. so like you, I am waiting to see what comes out. but that is not enough for these people. I even wrote to sumanth above but he has not has the decency to respond. so again, another person who was willing to listen is lost,, this time to rhetoric implying violence at the hands of a baseball bat. I won't stand for that shit. I don't take those kinds of shitty threats lightly.

Nice job SIFFers, you've gone from rhetoric to threats, all against people who had extended an invitation to open dialog. And hey sumanth, you might want to reign in your hounds before they do some more real damage to your cause.

That, or understand that this is a rabble with no real leader, the real dangerous sort, where even a small leader can move them to dangerous passions.

SIFF is a movement that consists of people from several backgrounds...economic, social, educational, cultural and philosophical. The one thing that unites us is that we are fighting against misuse of women-protection laws. We do not instruct anyone to communicate one way or another. Everyone is an individual and they are free to express themselves the way they choose to, or change it when they feel it is appropriate. So, making broad statements about Siffers is futile. If you really want to discuss, please do so with people that you are comfortable with and help in the way that you can in order to make some real difference.

Please read more about SIFF at the following link:

http://uchalla.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/we-the-siffers/

or

http://siftimes.com/article/column/309/

#105 Anon or Kris/ FF etc: On that note: and I ask the following questions out of curiosity and maybe some level of concern:

1. Do you guys have a formal organization? I mean an Executive Director, Legal Representatives, Volunteers, Outreach Program Directors, Executives etc?

2. What I mean to ask is do you guys have some sort of a set up that regulates your bodies or branches in India? Do you have a leader who handles the decision making and the media scrutiny.

3. Do you have offices and people who have worked in non-profit organizations to have had adequate experience to then function in collaboration with the city/ state police, lawyers, media, courts, social aid workers etc like some NGOs do?

I am trying to understand the framework of your foundation and the blogs you have provided or other sites for SIF didn't answer any of my questions. Maybe I didn't find the right sites but nowhere did I find the office address/ telephone numbers/ fax/ media/ PR contacts listed. Whenever the media/ documentary filmmakers or journalists wants to interview or perform a case study analysis that is the kind of info they will be looking for on your website not just anti-feminism articles. So where do they go? Is there another website with this information?

Because for example: If a member of a chid abuse organization were to speak out on a forum, issue threats, make undue comments about women/ other commentators when he/ she didn't really know them, the head of the organization would instruct the member to either apologize or refrain from doing so in the future.

This would ensure the following:

a) that individual members didn't vent their personal frustrations and damage the cause in that process.

b) One more very important advantage of having this system is that if someone is intentionally trying to give you a bad name by posing as an SIF agent, you guys would immediately know it wasn't one of your members and would make that clear. And we would know it wasn't you.

So I wanted to know if your organization has that kind of a set-up to prevent bad or mis-representation.

Maybe one of you guys could help answer my queries.

Thanks.

Hi, Aditi!

As I mentioned SIFF is a MOVEMENT. It is not an organization. But we do have formal non-profit organizations that work on the ground. I will contact you personally if you are interested in more details. I know how to contact you.

Thanks

Thanks Anon! Look forward to that.

Aditi Nadkarni,

SIFF partner NGOs are registered organisations. Some of our organisations are registered in US.

You asked, if there is one head of this organisation.

Let me ask you, can you tell me who heads feminism?

If feminism has no head/president, then why should SIFF will have? Does any feminist leader tell feminists how to talk, write or behave?

SIFF had 12 founders. Now, every city's first few activists are called founders.

SIFF does not work like unscrupulous corrupt NGOs.

SIFF is a Non-Profit, Non-Funded Organisation.
So, no funds are collected. So, no one can buy and hijack it.

I am one among 12 of its founders and I contrbuted to its design it just the way wikipedia is designed.

SIFF members have faced dreaded Indian concentration camps and rotten courts, so they do not have any fear to talk straight within legal limits (as every SIFF member knows what laws are). They know how to talk and write without breaking laws.

SIFF is not one organisation; it is an umbrella for many organisations. Each of these organisations work independently with their own charters.

Everybody is a leader in SIFF. There is no hierarachy.

SIFF has got the organic design just like feminism. You are a cancer researcher and I do not have to explain you how anti-bodies work. Is not it?

People love our language. They say, finally here are the people, who talk straight from their hearts.

This episode vindicates our belief.

Every single friendly neighbourhood feminist contributes to alarmism, extremism and hypocrisy in one way or other.

Some create hatred, some propagate and market it giving a very innocent impression.

All feminists are the same. They all are united in their mission and they do not care what happens to innocents.

When innocent elders face abuse and get jailed in false cases, then every single feminist is responsible.

They want people to be pronounced guilty with just one line of complaint and they want the accused to be jailed.

NCW, NHRC and Govt come much later. They are smaller players. The real enemies are good nice neighbourhood feminists.

When on defensive, they will come with their crocodile tears and claim how "at a personal level" they believed that laws have to be same irrespective of gender. But, they suddenly get silent, when questioned about punishment to female criminals, who make false claims and file false cases.

Their aim is to take the biggest portion of the social welfare cake for women deprieving children, elders and men their share. They also make sure that real female victims do not get justice, otherwise how can they carry on with their agenda.

They coin misleading terms like "gender sensitivity", "gender studies", "gender budgeting" to carry out their fascist designs. All these are only meant to promote their fascist ideology using tax payer's money for which large number of men sweat every day.

Just like religious terrorists, they use their networks in media, literature, social work to weaken the whole social fabric by promoting hatred.

#112: I actually heard back from one of your members who was kind enough to explain some of it to me.

Just for the record: I wasn't asking you guys to appoint a leader, I was asking if you had such a system in place. Those were questions not suggestions.

Have you ever considered that someone who may want to help you needs to know certain things before they can do so and hence needs to ask questions? Taking a defensive tone with such a person will only discourage people from finding out about you struggles.

You asked: "If feminism has no head/president, then why should SIFF will have? Does any feminist leader tell feminists how to talk, write or behave?"

In all fairness, if there were an organization called FIF-Feminists Integrated Foundation or something like that then I would've asked them similar questions. Your movement is an anti-false section 498A movement. However SIFF has the word "foundation" in it and hence my questions.

"They know how to talk and write without breaking laws."

On a public forum the only laws in place are those of personal ethics and ettiquette. While you may not be breaking any constitutional laws you may be offending people with a few baseless and at times hurtful comments. If that doesnt bother you at a conscientious level, I won't preach to you. I can only maintain my own decency in language and actions.

You said: "You are a cancer researcher and I do not have to explain you how anti-bodies work. Is not it?"

No, you won't. I understand antibodies and such. You might however have to explain what antibodies have anything to do with your movement however. That part confuses me.

Anyways, long story short I am glad one of your members got in touch with me and is prepared to engage in productive dialogue. I'm more eager than ever to find out about an issue I wasn't aware of.

Aditi,

Tell me please, why you did not know about "dowry law(498a)" misuse before you came here?

What exactly stopped you from knowing this?

Do not you think, it is the massive spider web spread by feminists using media, literature and educational system?

---------
There are somethings we know.

There are somethings we know that we do not know.

There are many more things, we do not know that we do not know.
-----------


You show concern that extremist language can damage a cause.

Do not you think extremism, extreme laws and radical language will harm feminism as well?

You are not part of SIFF.

But, you are part of feminism. Do not you think that it is common sense that extreme dowry laws or extreme DV laws can damage the feminist cause.

Long back in 2005, SIFF invited Madhu Kishwar to our seminar at Constitution Club, New Delhi. She said, she is concerned about a backlash due to misuse of dowry laws.

Very few people know that people can be jailed without verifying truth of a complaint. So, they get a shock of life when it happens to them.


All people of the country must know the truth.

And truth is:

One you marry get your son married, you have every chance to get a mandatory jail pass for 5 days 4 nights at city central jail with dreaded criminals.


My problem is not 498a or feminism. My only problem is, why citizens of this fascist country are not told the truth.

You will know what will happen when every citizen knows about this truth. There will be a "Sepia Mutiny".

We got news, a female police inspector was jailed for couple of days in a false dowry case alongwith her 3 month old daugher.

Now, is not it time for a Mutiny.

We will get her interview into right kind of media channels alongwith her 3 month old daughter.

Enough of crocodile tears for girl child by the fund chasing antinational feminists.

Aditi,

I do see a change in you. You seem a much better person now who seems to be taking the effort to investigate the truth before putting pen to paper.

115:

Hi Sumanth:

I do hope you will read my entire comment before you respond. I have written to you before and only received a long tirade in return that didn't address any of my points or dismissed it without consideration.

I was very young when I left the country, at an age where one doesn't really care about society and what goes on around them. Also, its quite possible that I belong to a section of society where marriages between people who have known each other for quite a while are more common that an arranged alliance. Hence it may be that I just was never exposed to much news regarding dowry laws.

My two run-ins with dowry cases came when I was a teenager or even younger I think. Our maid was beaten up mercilessly by her husband. And second during my visit to the city civil hospital where a woman who had been burnt by her in laws was brought in. Those two incidents were not media reported, I saw the victims with my own eyes, and honestly Sumanth there are times when I can close my eyes and see that blue, contorted face and hear those gory screams. Even as I write this I have goosebumps. BUT this does not mean I am closed off to the idea that men can be victims of false accusations too.

I honestly had no clue about legalities involved or the kind of laws that are in place.

I do ABSOLUTELY agree with you on an important point however: media and public opinions are drastically biased towards what is considered acceptable and precast. Women get stamped hapless victims and men as perpetrators. That needs to change.

My own views about feminism are not radical. I am not a man-hater and my ideas about feminism did not originate or develop based on what is written in books/ newspapers or articulated by political leaders. For me feminism is a very simple concept that entitles a woman to have her own choices in life: career, kids, choice of a life-partner etc. I try in my own way to change the radical views of women through writing or by discussions.

Let me tell you something interesting if you have the patience. Just think about it: If you approach the current generation of women and tell them you are an anti-feminist, they will turn up their nose and walk away thinking you are a male chauvinist pig. You will have no access to their psyches becoz they will have misunderstood and dismissed you. In order to influence their line of thinking you need to change their definitions of these labels and disconnect them from radical views. These young women will go on to become future leaders and may hopefully know better than to dump stringent, anti-human rights laws on civilians.

In fact I was just speaking to a friend of mine and we were discussing how scary it must be to be thrown in prison without due cause becoz somebody decided to flung an accusation your way. She was surprised too and said she hadn't heard of this law.

The only reason I could tell her about it is becoz a few of your members have been kind enough to provide me with some information that could aid awareness rather than attack me endlessly without any reason.

The sooner you realize that we are on your side as far as the fight against misuse of laws is concerned, the better. It is said that one doesn't have to know everything in life but it is crucial that one knows who their enemies are and who their supporters are.

#118: Sanam:

With all due respect when have I refused to investigate the truth?

I have always responded respectfully to the most hurtful and baseless comments and never lost my decency in the face of an ugly attack. You could click on any one of my articles and you will find ample proof of that.

I think the change has come about in the way this issue is being addressed.

For all this while I was not aware the issue dealt by the SIF was so large-scale and required immediate attention. Now that a few SIF members have taken the initiative to inform me, I am as willing, as I always was, to listen and learn.

I don't usually like speaking on behalf of other people but some of the other authors on this forum who have been promptly branded anti-male have on ample ocassions tried to show interest and ask questions. In the end we are all humans. If we get respect, we feel the need to show respect. It has to be mutual, right?

Nonetheless thank you for your favorable observation :)

Aditi,

You should be more concerned with current situation in feminism than SIFF.

You should have been more interested in convincing as many feminists as possible on bringing some ethics and principles to feminism.

Our issue is not to do with 498a.

We have a serious problem with feminist hypocrisy, which is directly imported from US. In US, Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem all have lied and distorted the facts.

We will never trust any feminist because they lie.

Do you believe that feminist suffer from this chronic disorder which makes them lie and create emotional tantrums in TV channels?

The entire Gender Studies research is faulty and unscientific. Most of this theory is highly reductionistic and hence it fails to explain the root causes.

The issue is not about 498a. The issue is about massive hypocrisy and gender hate promoted continously by feminists. They passed a highly biased DV Act. Now, they want to pass a highly biased workplace harassmemt law. Tomorrow, they will pass a bill saying men must register property in woman's name only and the woman calls her boyfriend for sex to that house the moment husband registers it in her name. Then Girijas Vyas will fly to that place spending Taxpayers money and will declare that adulterous women are victims and demand punishment to her husband.

In US, 85% of consumer spendings are by women. Still feminists there crib about the economic disparities between men and women.

In short, feminists are never satisfied.

Sweden has got no.1 position in Gender Indices GEM and GDI. Still, feminists there are not satisfied and keep complaining.

It is surprising that you have nothing to say about reforms in current state of feminism. In stead you want to advice us even though you know nothing about our movement.

We will run SIFF and if needed close it tomorrow. We are not even attached to it. Because, we know how to create, nurture and sustain.

Women do not deserve any respect if they promote lies in internet or in media.

Respect is mutual.

It is foolish for women to expect respect from men when the do not respect men.

When women write offensive articles on men calling for castrating or boiling of men, why do you think men should not write similar articles with similar tones?

People who create misery for innocent elders will pay, when their own family and relatives suffer many times more. Sinners will certainly pay.

"People who create misery for innocent elders will pay, when their own family and relatives suffer many times more. Sinners will certainly pay."

So will( 25 % or 85 %) fathers who have abandoned their children , never filed for child custody only because the child who was a minor could not make a "commitment /contract" to support his father in old age. Right Sumanth?
Relationships are all about give and take and nothing else.

The volcano will burst and it will all your doing.

Whew! Ok Sumanth. Great. At least I can live with the satisfaction of having tried to talk to you.

You said "Our issue is not to do with 498a."

Hmm, I guess I was mistaken then. Sorry about that.

So you are just anti-feminism in general, and not about the men and their families who are thrown into prison without just cause? I must've misunderstood your motives.

Anyways, wish you good luck in fighting for your cause.

Aditi,

You tried, well thank you for your ineffective time. We men are not at your mercy, time and thinking. We on our own will manage our battles. Enough of this feminism and the hue and cry that goes with it.

Look what happened to the UNICEF chief when he got a taste of his own medicine. Feminists like you never change, they have to be changed with force and by giving them a taste of their own medicine

Only when feminism is eradicated, the world will be in peace, the law and order will be straight and effective.

Sumanth is right, do not try to advice(like a dominant feminist) us even though you know nothing about our movement.

We will run SIFF and if needed close it tomorrow. We are not even attached to it. Because, we know how to create, nurture and sustain.

Women do not deserve any respect if they promote lies in internet or in media.

Respect is mutual.


SIF is spreading like a wild fire and soon the heat will be felt.

Either you join are movement and work BUT NO ADVICE

498A, DV Act, Sexual Harassment Bill...all these laws are pushed by feminists even when it is amply clear that women are misusing the laws. No attempts are made by the feminists to take appropriate measures to prevent misuse...in fact they encourage women to wield these legal weapons to their advantage. So, yes, SIFF is anti-feminist. Helping people suffering from misuse of these laws is not mutually exclusive from being anti-feminist. They go together.

http://www.merinews .com/catFull. jsp?articleID= 125583

There is a female professor at Delhi University called "Aruna
Boota/Broota/ Bhoota:" who is an extremely radical feminists.

Read the above article where she makes statements and give the
journalist a dose.

Lets find all feminists in universities, mass media and neutralise
them.

Only, then we will be able to reach to masses.

So Aditi,

You accept that feminism is all about hypocrisy, Goebbelian propaganda and hatred against men.

Our issue is not just about 498a. Our issue is about gender hate propagated by feminists.

Your goal is to promote feminism and you are least bothered about the dark side of it.

For you feminism is a religion.

So, you have a problem when someone questions your religion. You certainly want to market your religion to young girls and unsuspecting males.

But, this religion of yours is fanatic. Your religious leaders operating from NCW and Human Rights organisations support laws that imprison innocents.

If anyone questions, then you term them immediatly as anti-religious and anti-women.

Yes. If we are anti-feminists, then you are anti-humanist.

So Aditi,

You accept that feminism is all about hypocrisy, Goebbelian propaganda and hatred against men.

Our issue is not just about 498a. Our issue is about gender hate propagated by feminists.

Your goal is to promote feminism and you are least bothered about the dark side of it.

For you feminism is a religion.

So, you have a problem when someone questions your religion. You certainly want to market your religion to young girls and unsuspecting males.

But, this religion of yours is fanatic. Your religious leaders operating from NCW and Human Rights organisations support laws that imprison innocents.

If anyone questions, then you term them immediatly as anti-religious and anti-women.

Yes. If we are anti-feminists, then you are anti-humanist.

FF 94:
That was cute I don't think we need to debate on evidence admissible in court. I admit to my poor knowledge of law and layer speak so I may not have expressed myself properly so I will quote directly from the Bare Act portions which I think is causing the problem. I do this with the belief that a solution can be found if tackled correctly.

114-A Presumption as to absence of consent in certain prosecutions for rape - In a prosecution for rape under clause (a) or clause (b) or clause (c) or clause (d) or clause (e) or clause (g) of sub-section (2) of section 376 of the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860), where sexual inter course by the accused is proved and the question is whether it was without the consent of the woman alleged to have been raped and she states in her evidence before the Court that she did not consent, the Court shall presume that she did not consent.

113B. Presumption as to dowry death - When the question is whether a person has committed the dowry death of a women and it is shown that soon before her death such woman had been subjected by such person to cruelty or harassment for, or in connection with, any demand for dowry; the court shall presume that such person had caused the dowry death.
Explanation - For the purposes of this section, "dowry death" shall have the same meaning as in section 304B of the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860).
8A. Burden of proof in certain cases - (1) Where any person is prosecuted for taking or betting the taking of any dowry under Section 3, or the demanding of dowry under section 4, the burden of providing that he had not committed an offence under these section shall be on him.
498A. Husband or relative of husband of a woman subjecting her to cruelty.
Whoever, being the husband or the relative of the husband of a woman, subjects such woman to cruelty shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.

Explanation-For the purpose of this section, "cruelty" means-
(a) Any willful conduct which is of such a nature as is likely to drive the woman to commit suicide or to cause grave injury or danger to life, limb or health whether mental or physical) of the woman; or

(b) Harassment of the woman where such harassment is with a view to coercing her or any person related to her to meet any unlawful demand for any property or valuable security or is on account of failure by her or any person related to her meet such demand.]
Section 37 (Chapter 37) Cognizance and proof
32. Cognizance and proof.-
(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1973 (2 of 1974), the offence under sub-section (1) of section 31 shall be cognizable and non-bailable.
(2) Upon the sole testimony of the aggrieved person, the court may conclude that an offence under sub-section (1) of section 31 has been committed by the accused.

The Objective: To find a solution that is equitable to both spouses and family.

It does not look to me to be an insolvable problem and may lie in modifying the laws or legal system or a totally out of the box solution. By reading this blog I have come to learn that SIFF is a big movement so a solution may already have been arrived at. If this solution is shared with the general public I don't think you would have any problen garnering support for it.

I do not know whether these laws have been framed by feminist I can only assume that the laws were formulated with the intent to protect the victims. The fact that they can and are being abused indicates that they are imperfect and a more 'just' laws needs to be formulated. To quote from some court rulings.
"It is well settled that mere possibility of abuse of a provision of law does not per se invalidate a legislation. It must be presumed, unless contrary is proved, that administration and application of a particular law would be done "not with an evil eye and unequal hand"

From the decided cases in India as well as in United States of America, the principle appears to be well settled that if a statutory provision is otherwise intra-vires, constitutional and valid, mere possibility of abuse of power in a given case would not make it objectionable, ultra-vires or unconstitutional. In such cases, "action" and not the "section" may be vulnerable. If it is so, the court by upholding the provision of law, may still set aside the action, order or decision and grant appropriate relief to the person aggrieved.

So why not focus on the problem. Mudslinging is not going to help anyone least of all the Men and family wrongly accused and the genuine victims.

Devasis

Dev,

Govt is ready to amend the laws to stop their misuse. Govt appointed legal reforms committee gave all the recommendations in 2003 itself.

So, why the Govt did not amend the law??

Govt did not amend the law because of massive presence of feminists in media, in literature, in NGOs and in Human rights organisations.

Now, SIFF is taking on all these feminists and SIFF is challenging all these unscrupulous elements.

When the hypocrisy and false statistics spread (by them) in media and internet is curtailed then it will be easier for Govt to change amend the laws to prevent its misuse.

We are preparing ground for the Govt to amend the laws to stop their misuse. Our influence is increasing day by day.

SIFF Stall at TANA conference at New York

Our partner NGO Protect Indian Family(PIF) is registered in US.

Siffer 123:
Thanks for the information. You can count my support once I have seen the ammendments. However I do not agree with the method you propose. In my view if you circulate the proposed ammendments (I am not aware if they have already been published in the gazette as is usually the case for getting peoples feedback)you would be able to win over your critiques once they have satisfied themselves that it is in the best interest of the genuine victim as well. Call me an optimist but I can't see anyone willfully sbotaging the ammendment when it doesn't harm the genuine victim. Hope for the best.

Devasis

Dev in 122....I am very well versed with the provisions you stated above. I know how these feminist have changed evidence act 113B and fiercely oppose any restoration. That is exactly what I am against.

I am not talking about misuse of laws rather I am against the fundamental existence of these very laws in current form. Even if any things is a widespread menace for society, it does not justify using such laws in existing form. These laws are fundamentally flawed and that is what my assertion is. THE LAW IS BAD, forget about use and misuse.
As simple as that.

Vinod in 115.. I pity your common sense...100 comments passed and Sumanth thought you and your ilks would understand it one day it but your bunch still seems to be lurking in your own deep dark well.

For your sake I shall just put it once...

It is not 25% or 85%. It is 85% of 25%. I hope you get. ("of" means multiply...and do not forget to divide by hundred)

Explanation: 25% is no of men in SIFF who have children and 80% of those 25% fight for child custody. I hope that should shut up you and your ilks once and for all.

Aaman Lamba,

I do not see the comments of 'Neo Sakshi'.
where they disappeared.

Dev,

Societies are complex systems.

The most obvious solution to a social issue gives least leverage.

Put in another way, the best solutions to a complex problem are often non-obvious.

These two statements are mathematically valid and they can be proved.

We often assume societies to be simple, linear systems and apply the wrong methods. Thats the reason why many complex problems do not get solved.


The most democratic solution to a highly complex problem will be the most useless solution of all.

Our approach is based on study on behaviour of masses. We review effectiveness of our approaches on an ongoing basis.

See, it is just a jungle out there.

Human societies mainly work on the basis of laws of jungle even though from outside we see all the so called sane, rational, logica talk.

#121: Siffer:

I do believe that radical feminism has done a lot of damage to society but think about it this way: those radical feminists too must've had some terrible experiences with men and turned anti-masculism just as you guys because of your bad experiences have turned anti-feminism.

In this whole process people like me who would like to do something and feel bad about the injustice but are powerless in the face of legalities don't know how to break this cycle of hatred. Eventually someone has to be the bigger person and realize that instead of fighting each other we have to fight the system.

But I won't preach to you guys. Some of you have been through enough and maybe that causes you to be so angry.

I went to Youtube and watched some of the cases that have been put on a video there. Frankly, they were horrifying. I cannot imagine the kind of fear some of those people must've felt being thrown in jail without any info about their rights on a non-bailable sentence. Could've happened to any of us.

After having watched some of those, I am almost starting to understand why some of you so vehemently hate the word "feminism".

I am learning a lot in this process: I am ashamed to admit but I didn't know what the NCW was, what DV act was, what section 498A was. I cannot believe I lived in India for all those years and didn't see this bias.

Smallsquirrel: If you are looking to get more info on their issues and are finding their answers way too argumentative/ aggressive, go to Youtube.com and search for 498. There are several cases that come up. I know you were looking for a discussion with these guys but that might not be a possibility. I had one of the members get in touch with me and I am hoping to gain some more insight.

aditi.. thanks. yes it appears I will have to go it alone. I am not up for all this aggro rhetoric and it appears that they SIFFers are just as happy to not have anyone understand what they stand for and are looking to make enemies rather than promote understanding or change. It is sad when you try to treat people with respect and all you get back is hate. Oh well. Life goes on. I will surely look into it myself. thanks!

Aditi,

We are not angry. We are happy for whatever has happened or happening to all of us.

You would be doing a great mistake if you think that we are a bunch of angry people.

No one wanted to discuss with us. No one.

We have knocked all doors and wrote to all websites for at least 2 years.

When we pleaded rationally, logically and in a reasonable tone, they told us, "Get Lost".

National Human Rights Commission told us, "Get Lost".

Media told us, "Get Lost".

Politicians told us,"Get Lost".

Then we decided to be independent and seek help from no one.

Even today, we tell people not to go with a begging bowl (of requests) to any judge, to any police or to any politician.

We say, "If you beg, you will only get sympathy on your plate."

We do not beg, we snatch our rights.

We used exactly the same language on President of India APJ Abdul Kalam. Everyday he used to get 100 mails. He read them all and knew he can not do anything because he is a man and that too a bachelor. We are waiting Pratibha Patil to come.

We are inspired by feminists and especially radical feminists.

Thats why we want to be like them. Because, as you mentioned that is the only thing which works.

Our members have met Girika Vyas, Sushma Swaraj, Ram Jethmalani, Renuka Choudhury and many others over last 3 years.

Finally, we are happy.
There is no humanity left.
There is no democracy left.
There is no independence left in this country.

If it is left to its own, it will be soon a country of idiots, for idiots and by idiots.

I guess you are somewhat lucky as you do not have any brothers.

#131:

"I guess you are somewhat lucky as you do not have any brothers"

I have male cousins and aunts and uncles, don't I? I have male friends who I have known since I was a child. Would I want them/ their families to go thru this? A woman who will eventually get married to another family runs the risk of being accused by her husband's sisters-in-law. If uncles, aunts, cousins can be thrown into prison, can't we? Over and again you guys make it seem like it is a problem for only those who have been afflicted. What about those who could be afflicted? Shouldn't they know about it? Shouldn't they be involved in this fight? Or should they wait for the cases to be slapped in their faces?

Because you guys have been through this frustrating experience first hand, you seem to think it is your problem alone. Its not. It is a problem for society. And by antagonizing those members of society that want to gain insight into this issue, you are slamming doors in the face of change.

The bottomline is what every organization no matter how humanitarian in their approach needs is a good PR system that can increase awareness, tap into legal and political resources and bring about change.This law with its huge and illogical ambit can swallow any one of us. You guys have made it seem like your problem alone. And its not.

If you say you are not angry...well, you should be. Any law that is a violation of basic human rights should be reason enough for any responsible citizen to be upset over, it should be reason enough for people to want to do something about it.

From now on, I don't care what your members say to me. I don't look at the section 498A as your problem anymore. You don't want suggestions, you don't want questions, you don't want a discussion? Good. If it is an issue in the legal system of my country, it should be my problem. I shouldn't be answerable to you guys. I shouldn't have to beg you to furnish me with information and encourage fruitful dialogue. If you guys cannot be responsible enough to spread awareness, I will go hunt for it myself.

The internet has a plethora of information and doesnt hurl baseless insults at me every time I try to find information.

Thanks.

Aditi, SS: you are wasting your time trying to engage with and understand these nuts. They started with personal sob stories of being abused/divorced/harassed by their wives and they have expanded their personal experience to include all "feminists" - if you ask them to define a feminist, they have no answer but will randomly keep naming all women in the public sphere they can think of.

Moreover they bombard the threads with irrelevant, unproven, completely fictional statistics and rants just to continue their e-rampaging. And once you stop responding to their idiocy, they will gather around to crow their apparent victory over and "conversion" of another "feminist". Its basically schoolyard bully behaviour that can be spotted quite frequently amongst pre-teen boys.

On the other hand, I admire the persistance that you and SS have displayed!

Aditi and SS

Dont you get it still ( I am hoping you do)
The SIF jerks are not affected by the law or its misuse. These are only excuses. The bigger picture is something else.

Their problem is the freedom that women in India have.

In order words, they want India to be another Taliban by the following

1) No laws for women
2) Women with shut mouths
3) No education
4) Not allowed to work
5) NO NCW

Eradicate feminism totally.

Reasoning with them is like trying to make the Osama Bin Laden change. Did he? No never. Such men never change. One needs to oppose them

The good news is that no matter how hard these SIF talibans try, they will never succeed in getting a taliban rule in India.

Sumanth, Kris and their likes are hardcore talibanis, no mercy, no sense, no sense of respect for the other gender.

The way they sound on the internet, can you imagine how they must have treated their wives? Is it a surprise that their wife left them?

What did you do Anamika...you started with sob stories of others and built a mirage out of it, in the anticipation that you may once have one similar story carved out of your life.

...irrelevant, unproven, completely fictional statistics....

What??? Haaah... Pot calling the kettle black??...Never heard of any non fictional statistics from you. Oh I see one dowry death in 77 minutes and how cleverly you mask that if it is 0.0001 percent or that it is still 3 times less than similar number for a man.

No wonder Great revolutions meet stiff resistance at hands of mediocre minds...Every journey starts with a single step and we took it...you and your bunch are still following the stale path of women victim-hood...Every great movement started with somebody's personal experience. Are u saying whatever we see around started as somebody's bizarre imagination or out of nowhere. What is your point?

You do not even know how to apply basics of sociology to current social problems and talk about representing half of the world population.. Leave that aside, your bunch does not admit its mistakes even when it goes horribly wrong and you still claim to be liberal and scientific. Your credibility gets questioned by highest court of law in the country within months of a promulgation, for which it took all of you 15 years to draft. And you continue to claim this oppressive regime as your moral victory.

Observer...

No laws for women...

Why do you want laws only for women. Do you think men are cattle and it is ok to treat them sub-optimally at the hands of law. Why do you think any human law for a man is not suitable enough for you?

Women with shut mouths

Unless you know how to control/use your tongue you will always be asked to shut your mouth lest you open mouth may spit mucus on others. There is no rocket science to it. It is part of daily manners.

No education

Education has not proved good enough for you. You need some bit brains too to assimilate it. Abusing a provision of a law should not give you an illusion that you are a clever being.

#134: Observer: I won't speak for Sumanth, Kris or even SIF but I will speak against laws that are against human rights. If you can have an open mind, pls try to understand and read the following:

Here's what I realized when I read the law: You could be anyone, really. You don't have to be a man to suffer the ill-effects of this law. You could be a sister of the groom who lives no where near the couple, you could be the brother of the groom who has had no contact with the victim, You could be a cousin, a friend or close associate of the accused. You can be thrown into prison without bail, have your passport confiscated and condemned to years of court visits and hearings.

Ultimately what this does is makes women seem like hapless victims who cannot stand up for themselves and therefore need to have a government bully to do it for them. How is this womens' empowerment?

I am not alluding to any of the cases: I am speaking of the extent of this law. Meaning: I am NOT refering AT ALL to what has already happened but what could happen. Do you know what this means? It means that irrespective of what the SIFF members have to narrate from their own accounts, irrespective of the statistics that they provide in their lengthy comments, if you just logically evaluate this law, it is dangerous and unfettered. Ironically, the Taliban that you are refering to unleashed several such laws on civilians, they were gender biased too, but only in favor of men instead of women.

What hit me most was the televised interview of Renuka Chowdhary by Karan Thapar, available on Youtube. She said things like "This will empower my women". Her women? You cannot be at a government post and pass laws or acts and make such blatantly gender biased statements within a democracy.

Her logic seemed to be: Because women have been raped and victimized for all these years, this is how I will teach men a lesson. That would've been very good except: the men who raped and victimized those girls aren't the same ones who are falsely charged with 498A. They are two separate entities and issues!!

Also, what about the women who get dumped into jail without evidence, who may face police brutality while in custody, who had nothing to do with the marital issues of this couple and are remanded just because their names were listed, what about their rights? Someone could be doing it just to setlle scores.

I am not favoring anybody here. I have always had high moral standards and this act just doesn't settle well with my principles. I'm a woman too and this law scares me.

#132...Aditi, I agree with you.

Aditi,

You wrote:
"If you say you are not angry...well, you should be."

Anger can only damage someone from inside. It is an unwanted emotion. It is a poison.

Tell me how will we create awareness?

Very few of top 500 bloggers of India have written about this issue. The only ones who wrote on this kind of bias are Vulturo, Sakshi Juneja, Greatbong and some in DC.

NDTV and AajTak do not cover this issue deliberately.

Amnesty International vehemently opposed any proposal to make this law bailable and compoundable.

Amnesty International's report on Malimath Committee's recommendations on Judicial Reforms

Amnesty International was created to promote human rights. In stead, it is supporting arrest of innocents without investigation or evidence.

Common people listen to Amnesty International, NDTV, Aaj Tak.

People innocently say, there can be such draconican laws, otherwise media must have come out strongly against it.

People trust media blindly. So, it is the media bias, which did not allow the info about 498a to reach to masses.

Now, the question is if feminists have so much influence (in AI, in UN, in Govt) that they sustain such a biased law, then they are capable of doing much more damage.

In the end, who will lose?

The lose will be for everyone. It will be a lose for the society.

Tell me, a man who has gone through 498a and lost 20 lacs to 1 crore and his family spent time in jail, will he ever marry?

Just now as I write, a SIFF member is staying in my house being afraid that his wife will abuse him tonight. She has already threatened today morning that she will put a case against him. he does not want to lose his kid.

As I work, I get calls. If I am angry and attached, do you think I can sustain my life as I counsel hundreds of people every month?

Anger and non-acceptance are disempowering.

#139 Siffer: Then why do your members attack us with such anger?

You say nobody listens, nobody cares, the media doesn't cover your issues...but when someone tries, you guys holler at us and type out grave insults. It would scare anybody, no?

When I said you should be angry: I meant it. Anger if directed properly can do a lot. Anger misdirected and unchannelized is damaging.

Once I get enuf information to help me write about this issue I will. Right now I'm just kinda finding out things myself. I may not be a top Indian blogger :) but I think my articles on DC so far have received quite a few responses. Hopefully that can add to the outreach.

Good luck.

Malimath Committee Report on Criminal Justice System is linked below:

http://www.mha.gov.in/criminal_justice_system.pdf

Please read the committee's recommendations on amendments to 498a in page 190 and 191.

Indian Govt has appointed this committee and it gave its report in 2003. Four Years are over and Indian fascist Govt has not amended the law as recommended by Justice Malimath.

Aditi,

I filed a 498a on my husband. He is on this site as one of the commentators. He too says that that he is a victim of a false allegation. He has his interviews on youtube all over. His tactic of repeating "false case" again and again where by in a few weeks people start buying the story because it is thrown on everyones face repeatedly.

How does one decide?
Does anyone know how his father, mother, brother and sister harassed me and my family for lack of wedding functions..

Think logically, if the commentators on this site who claim 'false cases" are here , then where are their wives? Why are they not being active on this forum? If they can file a so called false case, then what stops them from coming on the internet and writing articles? They do not want to come forward, because they prefer to save their energy to do worthwhile activities and help other victims. Another reason is we once again do not want to be at the receiving end of bad words and verbal abuse on the internet--which everyone can read and observe already

I have no time and energy to go paint my story on the internet. Just because I do not do that it kind of gives an indication that my ex is a poor victim. I had no pleasure in listing my SIL's name. So what if she is a woman? Her harassment was more than anyone else. Women play a significant role towards the atrocities/harassment on another woman and not only men.

Women is the biggest enemy of woman. The man enjoys the drama that takes place between us women as long he is the observer. More than what my ex did to me, it was my MIL and SIL who constantly harassed me 24/7. But still their name got listed as 2nd and 4th in my FIR. His brother use to stay some place else. SO? That did not stop him to be party to make my life miserable as well with his rubbish talks and demands.

No woman just walks into the police station and registers an FIR. It is not that simple. I totally understand what Pooja Chauhan went through. It took me 2 full months to even get an FIR. The police usually have this attitude" it is a family matter , resolve it, come back tomorrow, come next week, they pass sly remarks, vulgar remarks, cheap remarks, look at you like their eyes are xray machines." It is so difficult. I had almost given up in a couple of weeks totally and I said let it be.. God will punish them. But something happened later on and once again I picked up from where I left and made sure an FIR was registered. My friends stood by me all the way and supported me unconditionally. The whole process consumes you totally. The whole damn course of action is so intimidating , exasperating and cumbersome.

The next time you visit India, try to register an FIR and check for yourself how many months it takes. If you are willing to pay some money, it can be done in a week or so. After that it takes at least 2 years for the cops to file a charge sheet and another 5 years for the case to come up in court and a lifetime for the judgment.

Because of the wearisome process, more than half of the potential FIRs never get registered, the culprits go scot free. These women never get justice, they get lost in the dark. I was a city girl, educated and this is what happened with me--the whole damn marriage and its after effects, eats ones confidence and perseverance up. I can totally imagine the apathy of women in smaller cities.

And these guys say that the law is misused?

And regarding getting arrested, please, none of these culprits spend an hour at the police station leave alone jail. The jails are packed with murderers and thiefs and other hard core criminals. They are asked to come to the police, sign their application and go home. Period.

But yes, if I was murdered, then my ex and his family would have spent a couple of days in jail.

Leave alone being bullied by the Government , the laws are dead and impotent laws to the core, they are totally useless.

The law as explained in the book is one thing, the implementation is another.

Survivor,

I appreciate your imagination.

Survivor, now that you are here anyway, and you dared to speak up, name your husband whose interview is on youtube. We want you to get justice.

"His tactic of repeating "false case" again and again where by in a few weeks people start buying the story because it is thrown on everyones face repeatedly."

Don't worry, the court will pronounce its verdict one day, and then we can post it all over the web and show how your husband and in-laws harassed you.

Anon,

What imagination do you admire?

The so called false case?
Or
The trouble one has to go through?

When you have nothing relavant to say, just do not say something for the heck of it.

And Siffer, how about you? Make up your mind( if any) do you want her to get justice or do you want her ex to go scot free.

I said...

- Survivor, now that you are here anyway, and you dared to speak up, name your husband whose interview is on youtube. We want you to get justice.

- Don't worry, the court will pronounce its verdict one day, and then we can post it all over the web and show how your husband and in-laws harassed you.

I think they are pretty consistent.

A lot of false stories are planted in International media on dowry and bride burning. It is mainly to degrade Indian men and their family internationally.

We can also play the same game to degrade women by uploading videos of all the evil abusive behaviour of females in TV serials.

The western media will then think why someone makes such serials if there is no reality.

Women who are married in US, have green cards and work in US, take a divorce in US, go to India for a short visit and file a false 498a and come back to US.

The parents of the husband with whom the female may not even have spent a week with spend days in jail and run around courts of years.

Indian courts do not take cognisance of the fact that the concerned woman got a divorce in US and also got $250,000 as alimony in US. Till they allow a 498a case in India.

Why only women's claims of harassment is to be accepted at face value?

EDITORS... can you please stop SS from spamming all the threads with the same irrelevant message???

Done, all editors, please take note and SS, get the message - you're not helping either yourself or your cause.

My cause is served to expose you and your feminine babes.

Next it will be to expose you, outside this board,

to the people advocating FREE SPEECH.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/204612.html

NCW rules out harassment, says Pooja needs rehab

[COPY-PASTE]

checkout #152...and look for your skeletons. Puja still had some thing on when she stripped where as you stand completely stripped and naked in front of everybody on this DC platform.

Hail Pooja, you helped us strip and expose these hidden terrorists.

Once the cases filed by Observer, Vinod's sis, Reader, Survivor, Anu, Anarch, XYZ anons, e.t.c are over we can to send them to mental asylum(err... Kanta Stri Vikas Gruh)because they had a very bad childhood and suffered severe exploitation at the hands of their parents and had resorted to dowry cases in fit of anger. No need to attach false with "dowry cases". A dowry case is false by default.

Hey those of you who have babies, please return cute babies back to your husbands before you are finally shifted to asylum.

Ha Ha ha...SIFF knew it from the word go...another feminists straw fell apart...IF NCW rules out harassment imagine how bad the case indeed was and what all that woman had been doing all along.

Feminists have foot in mouth disease. There comments and blogs are not even 24 hours old and they have been rendered naked and exposed.


Doobney ke liya to tum logon ko chuloo bhar pani bhi nahin milega...

to ek kam karo...pehla a katori mein sab log thook jama kar lo, phir usmein doob jana...

aurat ke naam per dhaaba ho tum sab...

I have stated before that Pooja needed help, very early on in this artcle. In light of the revelations of the IE article, I stand vindicated.

This is not about crowing about who is right or who is wrong. This case highlights the abuse of the law to settle personal scores. Pooja is the daughter of a rag picker and is not really too aware of how to really abuse the law. Can you imagine the power a shrewd woman wields by exploiting the loops holes within 498A and DV Act ?

Above all, we are a nation of hypocrites. Pooja garnered so much attention because she is in shape and has a shapely figure. The perfect 'Abla Nari', pleasing to look at.

What about the poor kids of Nithari ?
Why didn't they get so much attention ? They were butchered and killed horribly. All of them. The NCW sent someone over. She submitted a report and sat on her butt. That was it.

Finally, what about Archana Pandey ?
Can we get her justice? At least an investigation ? Why is the NCW quiet about her case? Isn't it the National Commission for Women?
Or is it the National Commission for Women who will help make morons like Ranjana Kumari and Girija Vyas appear like they are fighting for womens rights ?

Ranjana Kumari, Girija Vyas and a whole host of these pretentious NGOs get millions of dollars in funding from the UN and other agencies. They need the money to maintain their lifestyles. They cannot go up against them as they cannot bite the hand that feeds them.

I hope to get a response from at least one of the bleeding hearts here at DC.

-Arjun

Copy-Paste?

It's a bloody relevant article.

#153 Anon "Once the cases filed by Observer, Vinod's sis, Reader, Survivor, Anu, Anarch, XYZ anons, e.t.c are over we can to send them to mental asylum(err... Kanta Stri Vikas Gruh)because they had a very bad childhood and suffered severe exploitation at the hands of their parents and had resorted to dowry cases in fit of anger. No need to attach false with "dowry cases". A dowry case is false by default."

Good, you guys revealed your own agendas.

So basically SIF assumes that all women are either characterless or insane if they file 498A or report abuse? So this isn't about feminism, 498A misuse or anything...you just think that women in general should either endure the abuse or if she finds the courage to report it then you guys can help her accused husband assasinate her character with false witnesses/ accusations etc so he can be freed? Right? According to you is there any woman who is abused or no...no women are abused in India and all the men in India are supportive, loving husbands whose families don't harass the girl for dowry at all and the woman screams abuse only so she can get the pleasure (?!) of parading naked on streets or go thru the grueling process of court hearings where her family members will be asked questions and interrogated about every event.

If a woman is telling the truth and you guys are assisting in publicly ruining her character/ reputation just to shield a man, just remember, it will come back to you guys one day...you are brothers, you will become fathers, you are sons, you will somehow face this. Life will find a way of teaching you a lesson.

The 498A may be stringent and may need ammendments but you guys need to devise a sure way to first confirm that the woman is false. Otherwise it is very likely that you may put a girl and her family thru hell after her having suffered abuse. It could've been your sister.

Hmm,

Their sister is already up for business. Most sif guys who are not gays are willing to hire their sister for services. All in the family, she is cheap and available. Check out what dorky has said about all in this emails. No one is spared.

These guys oops gays are good for nothing. he has written about NCW and what NCW found and what is NCW expected to so. What us Sif doing . collecting dowry money still?

Aditi,

I am in SIFF for about 3 years. We engage feminists, police, judiciary, bureaucrats, media, common people, educated, uneducated in the issue of abuse of dowry laws and 498a. In these 3 years, I and many other senior members spend time almost every day (weekly 5 to 10 hours) campaigning, strategizing, discussing and reviewing.

Do not you think that we know what works and what does not work? Do not you think we know what is the most effective way to manage the movement?

Believe me. If we tell you everything in a apologetic manner like below:

"We do understand that large number of women are killed every year for dowry. But, there some girls who are misusing dowry laws and putting innocent people behind jail. There are many husbands who are harassed by their wives."

Do you know what would have been your most likely reaction? You would have laughed at us and would have told us whats the harm if a few men get jailed after all men are murdering and raping thousands of women.

Do you know Mr.Ram Prakash Chugh, a Supreme Court advocate started campaigning against these laws since 1985. Nobody listen to his rational, logical pleadings. People laughed at him and converted him into a cartoon.

Do you know, just 1 year back a journalist asked him on TV, why such a men's organisation is created in the first place?

It was necessary for us to break many mental barriers in the society. Even now, we have to break new mental barriers in society.

We had to break the barriers of ridicule. Even today male victims of domestic violence do not come out in fear of getting ridiculed.

Society and people always look at the facts with filters. If its about harassment of men, then it is seen through filter of ridicule.

When we say about misuse of dowry laws, society and people/media see it through the filter of "one dowry death in each 72 minutes".

There are many more filters that cloud the judgement of people, society and media.

That is the exact reason why you never knew about "dowry law misuse" even though you may have read about arrests of people in dowry cases in newspapers.

Now, tell me how can one break through these social mental barriers (filters)?

The solution is: Outrage.

When someone reads or sees outrageous stuff, that person gets disturbed. Only then that person starts seeing things afresh without filters.

Today, hundreds of female journalists are writing for us and meeting us. In every city, its the female journalists who write about SIFF.

Without outrageous tone, we would have been just hitting at the walls just the way Ram Prakash Chugh did for more than 20 years.

There were many organisations in India for men. But no one was like SIFF and no one is as successful as SIFF.

We could match feminists's 30 years of effort with just 3 years of effort.

Even today, people/society/media sees through many more filters.

Will you believe if I say, "men worked hard to liberate women, but forget to liberate themselves"?

Will you believe that the "traditional male roles (expectations from males) around the world have not changed" even 5% compared to change in women's roles?

Will you believe that no one is even ready to study this aspect?

Will you believe, there is no funding on men's studies even though it is considered that most social evils are due to men?

If men are the root of most problems, then why there is no funding on Men's Studies?

Please read,"Who stole feminism? How women have betrayed women" by Christina Hoff Sommers. It costs just $12.

Please read,"Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell.

Do you think any society will prosper when issues related to half of the population are not even discussed?

Do not you think, people need to do a complete study of evolution of gender roles and social behaviour if we really want to solve social problems like AIDs, Female Foeticide etc.

I know how Technical Research is done as I used to be an IEEE member. IEEE is one of the top technical societies in the world.

So, I can easily guess how "Gender Issues" research happens. As I scratch the subjects a bit, the whole theories crumble on the ground.

We have to go a long way.

Hmm: "The 498A may be stringent and may need ammendments but you guys need to devise a sure way to first confirm that the woman is false. "

Sanam: Agree at the same time the alleged women victim should ensure that her spouse is indeed guilty before filing a case against him and his family.

The law should be equitable on both sides. It should not favor one side over the other.

Siffer,

These ladies are a hoax. Aditi who called her father a femnist deserves no mercy. She is a man hater , man eater. S

She wants to help us by dominating us, advise us, typical women traits just like all the 498 girls. Crocodile tears, and all the shit.

When WOMEN want financial freedom --it is called women empowerment.
When men want financial freedom-- it is called Dowry.

What hypocrites?

#160 Siffer (Senior activist in USA): Umm, just for the record, I am not looking for your mercy...don't need any, really.

And oh, btw financial independence is defined by money which you earn through your own efforts and possibly intellect and not when you've received it as a "gift" from your in-laws during the wedding. Guess that lil misconception got you into trouble, huh?

Well, good luck trying to justify your attempts at "financial independence" in court.

498A may need reform but some men need to work on their screwed up mentalities as well.

aditi... we're a hoax! wow, does that mean I can stop paying taxes???? :P

India's National Crime Records statistics show that there have been over 58,000 incidents of dowry harassment and over 6,700 dowry murders in 2005. Most of the cases of dowry harassment are filed after the woman is dead.

But of course that statistic may be an figment of "feminist imagination."

"financial independence is defined by money which you earn through your own efforts"

Are not the couple one entity. So why does a wife claim her money a gift to her husband as dowry?

Do not they share the same children?

Your hypocrisy is apparent and exposed

When WOMEN want financial freedom --it is called women empowerment.
When men want financial freedom-- it is called Dowry.

What hypocrites?

And Squirrel

In India , women have different tax layouts than men. You may not pay tax altogether and rest assured you will get away with it.
Hypocrites again!!!

False cases also get into statistics of registered cases.

Having said that I believe most victims of harassment do not complain where as its the unscrupulous who file 80% of false cases.

"India's National Crime Records statistics show that there have been over 58,000 incidents of dowry harassment and over 6,700 dowry murders in 2005."

The National Crime Bureau does not classify the data on number of men who are murdered or driven to suicide by women/wives due to monetary, adultery or other reasons. These numbers can be estimated to be 15000 to 25000 in a year.

Statistics are unscientific if the samples are not collected for both genders.

smallsquirrel: hehehe. You are hilarious! :D Gosh, wish that were true.

Mr.Senior activist in USA:

Income tax is called income tax because guess what?!! It is based on income. Not rocket science, Siffer-saab. I'm thinking if you had to take money as "gift" from your wife, my income might just be a tad more than yours and hence the taxes that were charged on that income. But that is Math, I wouldn't expect you to put your trust in such a universal and straightforward numerical system: your statistics have demonstrated that some of you guys operate on complicated self-devised values which may or may not hold true in the real world.

That being said: Our discussion is seriously hampered by a drastic difference in mentalities. We obviously belong to totally different mindsets.

The financial system within a marriage that you are putting forth is quite romantic while the marriage is harmonious: Our money, our home, our children. One entity: ek parivar, sukhi parivar, ek bank account, sukhi bank account holder. How wonderful and touching!

BUT when the marriage falls apart, that equation according to your mentality seems to change to: "My money, my home, my parents.....and your children!! You take care of the kids, return to your parents' house if you don't have property in your name but why should I return the assets that we made during the marriage? Why should I have property in your name? What if you cheat me and take away my assets? Oh, sorry, what? If I cheat you? Ha, then your parents...woh log baithe hi hai na puri jindagi kharcha uthane ke liye. Ladki paida karne ko hamne nahi bola thha."

In Bombay we say: "Kya Siffer saab, yeda samjha kya apun ko? Bahot dekha hai aisa"

You can't have the cake and eat it too. You are a senior activist in USA no? Then you should know how it works here: you don't pay child support you jail mein chakki-peesing, you lay a hand on your wife/ gf, you get a restraining order, one 911 call and you'll be in a lot of lafda. So why sit in the US and speak of Desi taxes and desi system?

Meri hypocrisy ko chhodo, your mentality is being exposed. But it is not your fault, I understand. Mentality and thinking is something that cannot be changed overnight. Degrees, credentials and bank account still don't guarantee a true education. You were taught to believe that women have to sacrifice, endure, bear their pain, devote their lives to pati-seva, no demands, "my mother abuses you? so what, you can adjust a little".

Thinking gutter mein aur activism US mein?! Waah!

Aditi, Please read the following article to understand dowry tradition and anti-dowry laws in India. The article is definitely worth a read for you because your arguments in post #166 are ill-informed.

http://www.indiatogether.com/manushi/issue148/dowry.htm

Thanks

Aditi, you are now exposed. Cut the [EDITED] crap and keep it to yourself. Do not give threats. Whether india, gutter or USA, [EDITED]are the same everywhere

#167: Thanks Siffer but which part of the 10 page article should I be looking at?, its a very big article and I dunno what I should read since the article basically details everything from dowry harassment to phony laws.

Also could you also kindly point out which aspect of my argument #166 is ill-informed. As always I'm prepared to listen and accept if there's something I should know that I don't. In fact I would appreciate the info.

Just for the record: I am still very much against the stringency of 498A but I will not subscribe to this line of thinking by Siffer-Senior Activist in USA: "Are not the couple one entity. So why does a wife claim her money a gift to her husband as dowry?"

I firmly believe that financial assets within a marriage in the event of a troublesome divorce need to be evaluated by a court which can with fairness determine if the woman deserves alimony, child support or remuneration for her contribution to those assets. If the court does a poor job of that then it is more of a kink in the system than it is with the women who have approached the system.

Aditi,

I would say, read the entire article when you have the time. It will be worth it to understand the current situation in India.

#170, Will do Siffer and thanks for the link. I'll make it a point to read thru it. I'm trying to get my hands on as much info as I can get about this stuff.

I hope you realize that what I said in #166 was only in response to #164 and does not reflect on my impression of all Indian men or all 498A cases.

Good Job Siffer, you will make Sumanth proud. A good dose that lasts forever. Who next needs to be vaccinated?? ")

Aditi, the Bombay lingo in #166 is hilarious. Sigh, been so long since I heard someone say "yeda" and so appropriately too! Heehe. =)

"you lay a hand on your wife/ gf, you get a restraining order, one 911 call and you'll be in a lot of lafda."

Actually, in the US too, you don't have to lay a hand on your wife or g/f to get a restraining order. Even if the man was beaten by the woman, and he calls the cops he is usually arrested because the assumption is that the woman would have only beaten the man as a retaliation to something he has done. Very often Domestic Violence cases are lodged as an attachment to a divorce and child custody cases.

Please visit the following website for more details on how VAWA is used to harass men.

http:///www.mediaradar.org

There are many countries in the world that have similar problems with different magnitude.

See this letter for examples:

http://www.mediaradar.org/docs/RADARletter-to-Biden-and-Lugar-against_IVAWA.pdf

Winners and Losers.
Now that the Pooja Chauhan episode is winding down, its time to take stock of the winners and losers.

The Losers:
The Police: They ended up being losers by not standing up to their convictions and arresting the hubby and in-laws of Pooja.
The Corrupt Girija Vyas: "The right of any woman to file an FIR" . She has the powers of a Judge, and this is the extent of knowledge of the law or fundamental tenet, known as due process, she has. It would have made a difference if she called on the cops to investigate.
Ranjana Kumari: "I think now women need to dare". Please! I would love to see women with good bodies walking on the streets in their undies to air their grievances. We can then truly call ourselves the land of Kamasutra.
NHRC: For rushing to conclusions and acting like morons and not an august body meant to safeguard human rights.
The supporters of idiotic laws like the DV Act and 498a: For legislating these laws with so many loops holes that even deranged people can abuse them.
The hubby and in-laws of Pooja Chauhan: They were innocent, and were arrested for no reason under these idiotic laws.
Pooja Chauhan: The voyeurs got a chance to see a young woman walk the streets in her undies. She has been gifted with a guaranteed divorce for filing a false 498A complaint. The NCW very politely said that she was exploited, a euphemism for prostitution.
Poojas Daughter: The poor kid. What did she do to deserve this kind of a mom?
The bleeding hearts of DC: They vociferously denounced anyone who even mentioned that 498A is being abused.
The author of this article. I quote: "Pooja married out of love and today finds herself alone and stripped of her dignity, or so many will say and yet she reminds me of the incredible Mother Courage, one who never gave up"

Winners: None. This is the appalling state of affairs in a great country like ours.
Mera Bharat Mahan (Nahin)
-Arjun.

I hate it when dowry takers throw loose statistics
I hate it when you cannot provide links
I hate it when you cannot provide accurate data
I hate it when you guys sit and wait for the judgment of NCW is and you cannot do anything.

I love it when you wait for the verdict of NCW


Big claims and even bigger lies and that's what you are LOOSERS

( Arjun now you are back with your other fake name, was the drumming by Aditi in166 to you when you were Siffer scare you)

Against Dowry takers,
I am Arjun. I write as Arjun. I don't need to resort to fake stats to prove anything. My writing style is different and if you can't distinguish it, then that is your short coming. Not a deception on my part.
-Arjun

Against Dowry takers,
Do you have the intellectual ability to counter the arguments I made in #154 without resorting to cheap obfuscation?
-Arjun

I am waiting. Would anyone else like to take a shot at #154?
-Arjun

154.. is nothing buy a trashy comment where by you need to understand some logistics. The fact that no one else reponded to you, shows your dumbness and level of intelligence both

Whether it was you or not, I see all sifies as one ie criminals.
Bet the drumming by Aditi did you good, your language atleast improved in 1 comment :)

Right!

Against Dowry takers
I am glad you showed your face here again, though a little disappointed that it was an inane comment.
Here is Ranjana Kumaris quote: ""
"Shame on everyone who stood there to mock her but did nothing to help her. A woman who is sinking will do anything to keep afloat. Today you are responding, the police is responding, we are responding. I think now women need to dare," said women's activist Ranjana Kumari.
If you are a woman, I wish you the best. With this kind of an outlook towards life, you need it.
if you are guy, dude, you don't need to stoop so low to suck up to get laid.

What is amazing is that there are allegations of Pooja's own misbehaviour, drinking and wild ways and yet she wants to force her attitude and ways on her family and husband. When he refuses, she invokes D.V., strips and struts around in under wear as if she is the victim.Why does she wants to impose herself on her husband and his family and not give them the right to live with their own sense of dignity.

Provide links to your claim

98% women are subject to harassment.

Sitting in USA is not going to do you any good.

Your foolish comment 164 is exposed in 166 by Aditi.

After your comment underwent some censor in 168 and 31 you come back with another name. Yeah...right!


98% women are victims of dowry, torture, harassment, misuse of religious laws, verbal abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse in India but these cases never get recorded. We have to spread more awareness.

And Siffer thanks for agreeing in 182 that it is indeed Arjun --the senior blah blah....

#99 :
"Then came along Shanti (who I am almost positive is Mani and the commentator SS above, the English is unmistakable) and they make harsh, disconnected personal comments that after a while don't even make sense. It makes me wonder if that is how the organization is...you know, full of extremist, anti-women members who cannot accept a woman even writing a short story about an extra marital affair for god's sakes."

- What sense you want to make, aren't you passing your own judgement just on your observations

- while wondering, can you tell us what organization do you belong to.

- Can you explain, what is "Extra Marital"
and in #137 "I have always had high moral standards "


-----------------------------------------------
Mothers, Sisters and Daughters against Feminism
-----------------------------------------------

This is a case of blatant misuse of D.V Act. Here, it is the woman who is inflicting mental cruelty on the husband and on his family and yet she wants them to put up to it. When they refuse, she is not only coming out with false allegations of domestic violence but is stripping herself and marching in the streets to register her protest.
Why should a man continue to live with a woman if she is a drunkard,spends nights with other men and attacks his mother? I think it is the man who needs to be protected here from an unscrupulous wife who misuses the law.

I simply do not know what has prompted the girl to strip and walk around. She may have got the attention that she wanted, but if what her husband and the neighbours are claiming are true,then why should the husband continue to cohabit with her. She cannot simply force herself on her husband. She cannot term it as domestic violence if her husband wants out of the marriage.

It is sheer madness. Why not take divorce and live a life of sexual wanton, if that is what she wanted. Why force yourself on your husband and his family and start crying about harassment if the husband refuses to wilt and does not accept her way of living ( which includes drinking and spending nights with her boy friends) as has been alleged. Does not she think that the man has the right to live as per his own set of values?

"Does not she think that the man has the right to live as per his own set of values?"

URL, what are you talking about? That would make you an outright regressive MCP. If you are a progressive man, you leave behind your personal values or philosophy and stand right behind your wife no matter what she does.

What is clear from Pooja's reaction is that she wanted both. She wanted a marriage and all the securities and perks that flow from it but at the same time she wants to lead a bohemian life style.You cannot have both. And when things are not evolving as she wants, she is garnering media support by stripping and marching around with a torch. I think this is a result of distorted feminism.It is apalling.

Except the stripping and parading on streets part, your comment applies to all 498a women. Pooja has just gone one step ahead of them all.

Aditi, since you are looking at domestic violence in India, this is mostly for you, but also some responses to the obfuscation by posters above.

Seems a simple point is being missed in this ranting about Pooja by various outraged nonfeminists. Pooja had been living with her daughter SEPARATELY for the past year. (Btw, that does not mean she cannot be harassed/threatened/injured/or killed). She has stated that she doesn't want to go back.

(now for Aditi): NCW - far from being a feminist organisation - is a government enterprise of the worst sort, full of hypocrisy and outlandish ideas about placing "family" first. Their brief even in cases of extreme harassment is to "reconcile" the couple and ensure the "continuation of the family."

In the present case, this has led the NCW to a complete PR mess that they are now trying to damage control: Pooja clearly stated that she didn't want to go back to her husband, was happy to take care of her daughter and basically wanted the harassment to stop. She had asked for police security - which was finally provided for her after the stripping incident. In fact most of the NCW's comments about her have been condescending and derogatory and attempts at undermining her credibility.

Having dealt with NCW for a few years on various cases in Delhi, I cant say I am either surprised or shocked. They have been known to change the testimonies of even educated/literate women seeking help in order to present it to the family courts as "capable of reconciliation," push ("encourage" in their terminology) battered women to returning to their violent marital homes. This is because the testimony is oral, and noted down by the NCW personnel; it is then typed up for signing by the complainants. In over 95% of the cases, the information of DV and harassment is either excised or toned down in favour of the husband/in laws. It is helped by the fact that most women are either illiterate or too distraught to read the typed version and trust a body for women to be on their side.

At the end of each year, the NCW presents a report of the number of women they have "helped" but these "helped" women are those that have stayed in their marriages. When the women turn up dead later, the NCW conveniently excises that information because of course that is "beyond their brief" and jurisdiction.

It is really quite horrible.

PS: the Indian taxation system that you got told about does offer "tax breaks" for women but these are practically negligible in percentage/amount terms and primarily symbolic.

I also LOVE the fact that an NRI from USA is cribbing about women getting unfair tax breaks in India. Obviously the simple fact that less than 3% of the India population PAYS taxes and for years the government has been trying to figure out ways of expanding the tax net has been ignored.

But why allow facts to stand in the way of ideology. :-)

Siffer, you have got your basics all wrong! You are nothing but a female chauvinist. Your attitude is pathetic. Why should a man stand by a woman who does not bother about his sensitivities? If his wife is coming home drunk and has sex with her boy friends, then why the hell should he mutely accept such a marriage.What is he getting out of it? Do not you think that he too has the right to walk out of a bad marriage and to live a life of his own and seek love elsewhere? Why should he put up with such a wife all his life?
Sniffer, you attitude is hillarious. If the man protests and seeks an annulment of a rotten marriage, you are calling him a "backward MCP".Will todays liberated, educated and economically women ever tolerate a husband who comes home drunk and openly fornicates with his girl friends? Will you ever call such a protesting wife as not being "progressive"?
You simply do not know what you are talking about.

Okay. One down i.e. Girija Vyas/NCW.

Can't wait until other feminazis are also discredited.

URL, there is something called sarcasm.

Sniffer, will you call a woman, a regressive chauvinist, who refuses to live with a husband who is drunk and has affairs with other women. Then how do you malign a man FOR A SIMILAR REACTION ? Every person has the right to walk out of a rotten marriage.
More over, if Pooja was LIVING SEPERATELY then what is her grudge? Obviously she wants her husband to accept her in his life despite the fact that she had never bothered about him. And when he is not willing, she is resorting to D.V.

Did you read comment #196? It is just one line. Take the time to read it before wasting more time typing.

Or maybe I'll help you...

#196 says "URL, there is something called sarcasm."

And "sarcasm" refers to comment #190.

In #190 in response to ""Does not she think that the man has the right to live as per his own set of values?"...

...Siffer says "URL, what are you talking about? That would make you an outright regressive MCP. If you are a progressive man, you leave behind your personal values or philosophy and stand right behind your wife no matter what she does."

Got it?

I simply do not know what feminists mean by a regressive MCP.If a man protests against his mentally cruel wife, he is a regressive person!!!

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say...that feminists are unreasonable like that...except, I was being sarcastic. Alright? Now let it go.

#193 - Anamika - Refer to my post #76
"... Their raison-detre depends upon coming up with more such studies, more such stories."

It would be helpful if you could tell us more about the social work you are doing, the organization that you belong to, the sources of your funds, a little more balanced view of the cases you handle/handled.

Finally, I would like your opinion on fascistic laws that

- declare a citizen "guilty until proven innocent"
- that allow for summary arrests, irrespective of age, gender, evidence etc

This would set the context better for debate.

This getting to the roots by NCW is a big SHAM!! They are only trying
to project a more balanced image for themselves given the amount of
extremism they have exhibited in the past (incidentally they continue to
carry on with their extremist attitudes; their future policies amply
prove so).

Except for these women's organisations, Pooja Chauhan has only drawn
flak from the masses. Such exhibitionism to make a point hasn't gone
down well with the population at large. If one can stoop to such levels
to make a point in public then what must she have done to have her way
at home??

NCW wants to get away with more in future, so they are doing their best
to extract a mileage out of Pooja Chauhan's case.

Reality is that any aggressive backing to Pooja Chauhan's case would
have only opened a Pandora's box for NCW. What if other women followed
suit and took to the streets the way Madam Chaudhan did?? The Indian
govt. in that case would have been shamed in the International community
and Sonia Gandhi would not have known where to look!! This obviously
would have brought the Ministry of WCD and its pet NCW in the direct
line of firing!!

So it was in the best interest of the govt. to nip the problem in the
bud. One therefore sees NCW playing down its earlier role and making
these 'no-dowry harassment' claims in the press.

Ultimately, its politics and vote bank at play. Otherwise who is
bothered about the real state of underprivileged in this country?
Atleast not NCW. In the name of women's development if they have brought women to such a level in terms of attitude (as Pooja Chauhan is) then such organisations only need to be banned. No question of any support.
:)

#186 SS

Since you addressed your questions to me:

1. You asked what organization I'm involved in: I am not affiliated with any organization. I write for newspapers, celebrity blogs and am a documentary filmmaker. Most of my interests are in child welfare and street children.

2. You asked what an extra-marital affair is: An extra marital affair is one in which a man/ woman has an affair with someone else while still being married to another.

Since you typed in my quote, let me re-state: I do have high moral standards. I am in no way a spokesperson for extra-marital affairs. If this is in reference (again!) to the piece that Amrita wrote that you are so hung up on, please try and accept that it was a story.

My question to you is: Do you know what fiction is? Becoz if you don't, this whole "promoter of infidelity" accusation is going to start amusing me soon. I can understand that if you haven't read much its difficult to grasp the concept of fiction but try.

By making repeated references to a piece of fiction written by someone else you are making a fool of yourself. By your reasoning everybody who liked Karan Johar's Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna would be a supporter of infidelty (just for the record I hated the movie...but again, that doesn't say anything at all about my moral standards!).

I am baffled by the line of questioning.

@Anamika: Thank you for the insights.

#203

1. This is exactly the same line parrotted by feminists, when they are exposed, their main interest is CHILDREN.

They sysmbolises the Ministry of Women and Child Welfare, and are clones of Honorable Minister Renuka Chowdhary.

Their budget outlay and spending will reveal the truth.

2. Mother Teresa had high morals, and she also used to read classic stories, disguised as 'fiction' to the children to build moral in them.

Karan Johar clearly made the film for commercial venture, which your ideal FEMINIST DAD Mahesh Bhatt also do.

# ""promoter of infidelity" accusation is going to start amusing me soon."

It is not amusing you, it is exposing your true morals and feminism.

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Mothers, Sisters and Daughters against Feminism
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Anamika at her misleading best...

Seems a simple point is being missed in this ranting about Pooja by various outraged non feminists. Pooja had been living with her daughter SEPARATELY for the past year. (Btw, that does not mean she cannot be harassed/threatened/injured/or killed). She has stated that she doesn't want to go back.

How does her stripping down to panties means she has been harassed and not that she is someone who likes to hog limelight.


There are so many welfare schemes being run for exclusively for women, so many laws being passed exclusively, so much of police machinery required exclusively for women, so many courts cases running exclusively for women. I have never seen even the elitist and most staunch of feminists including you coming forward to ask Govt to deduct tax proportional to expenditure incurred above from your earnings. That 35,000 may be symbolic but that huge hidden cost is not.

Now keep in mind, you said the society should NOT keep family above individual and subsequently you are proponent of pitching women against men. How do you explain this huge dichotomy in your argument?

Let us not play that mother card because from your argument it looks like you are in favor of women having exclusive right over life and death of her babies(in womb) without being answerable to society.

FF: May I ask you a few questions? Lets say a woman was raped, her health or life or that of the unborn fetus is at risk, contraception was used but failed, or she feels unable to raise a child especially if she is facing an impending divorce, then would you say members of society should get to decide if she has the baby or has the abortion? Would they also be contributing towards the financial support that goes into raising her child once they veto the abortion?

I can understand it is a decision between the woman and the father of the child: the two people who conceived the child but why society? Why and how do others get a say in this very personal decision?

On that note: how would you feel about a woman concieving a child by tricking the man who was under the impression that she was using contraception (pills etc). If he doesn't feel ready to raise the child financially then would he be in favor of an abortion? Would society hold him accountable if he refuses to look after the child? So why doesn't a woman reserve the same right especially since she cannot just walk away from the pregnancy. If she feels incapable of going thru with the pregnancy what should she do? Ask society?

FF, a woman's body, emotional status, health all are involved in a pregnancy, not just her womb. They affect the health of the baby too. It is science, logic and basic sensitivity towards both foetus and mother to realize that having a woman bear a child unwillingly, by force, by societal duress is ultimately not benefitting. Once the child is born, the mother resesnts having had the baby because she was forced, society makes its opinion known and then sits back to watch the second act: financial difficulties in raising the child. What about the child itself? He/ she had no say and is now in a world where the one person he/ she could've counted on: mother, didn't really want to give birth. Would you advice such a situation just based on anti-abortion views?

I have noticed that the central issues of stringent domestic and dowry laws are constantly confounded by the anti-feminism, anti-pro-choice topics that are ocassionally refered to and try as I may I don't see a correlation. It is distracting. In the presence of actual domestic violence wouldn't abortion be better than having the woman suffer a miscarriage/ hemorrhage due to the possible beatings, abuse or mental distress?

If at least a few women can see your perspectives is it too much to ask for you to see a woman's point of view?

Well I do not subscribe to Anamika's theory of

"...outlandish ideas about placing "family" first".

I believe family as a very significant unit of society and feel that society caters to the child through documented/undocumented rules of making man look after his wife and children.

My statements/views were not of how society should be but rather of how it would be if we were to subscribe to Anamika's notion of society. So in light of that, I feel what I am being accused for something which I do not subscribe to in first place.

My opinion on abortion(specifically inside of marriage) is reasonably clear i.e. among the Doctor, mother and father the majority gets to decide the fate of pregnancy and whose so ever between the spouse decides to retain it gets to and needs to maintain the child. That settles most of the cases and leaves out very few special ones (isolated cases) which can always be specifically enumerated.

"I can understand it is a decision between the woman and the father of the child."

Good. So, it means it is unfair to grant women the unilateral right to abort an unborn child. What are the reproductive rights of a man if he wants to keep the unborn child?

#206 reinforces the #204,

Feminists when exposed of their dirty agenda's and evil idea's, start putting the children in the mix.

She talks as if FEMINISTS are next to GODS, who only know about the children and life, all other creatures in this society are dumped from sky.

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Mothers, Sisters and Daughters against Feminism
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The problem lies with taking extreme cases and making legislation that affect the general masses who fall in the middle.

Couple this extreme legislation with anachronistic laws that were made centuries ago by our colonial rulers for the colonial times, you have handed a lethal cocktail in the hands of an unscrupulous woman. She can use that deadly combination to cause immense harm to others and then find an easy escape from the consequences of her evil in the drumbeat of womens victimhood. In one case, a decent looking upper middle class woman seduces a man, makes him purchase several assets on her name, and then begets a child with her lover, when found out - files a false 498a of abuse, then hides behind the sec 112 of Indian evidence act of 1872, which presumes the children of marriage as children of the husband.

Not once, you have admitted explicitly the criminal potential of women in any of your articles. Enough is written in the media about victimhood badge on the shoulders of women. Why dont we find even one woman examine the other side?

In YouTube, elderly person rants against 498a and blames all political parties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2F6f3dOpE

Lets all pray that all Feminists and their relatives and their grand parents get 498a and DV act soon.

the latest news is simply this...

Indian Express reports

RAJKOT, JULY 11 : The National Commission for Women (NCW) on Wednesday ruled out that Pooja Chauhan, who recently stripped and took to Rajkots streets, alleging harassment by her husband and in-laws, was harassed for dowry or for failing to bear a male child.

According to the Commission, severe exploitation during her childhood had led to her take the step. With the 22-year-old family unwilling to take her back and the community set against her, the NCW team said counselling and rehabilitation of the 22-year-old were now a priority.

The four-member NCW team which came down to Rajkot on Wednesday met Pooja, her parents, in-laws, Pratap, community members and police officials.

Indian Express further reports..Severe exploitation since childhood has led to tremendous mental distress in Poojas case. Pooja had run away from her house as a child due to exploitation, which continued post-marriage. There was discord between Pratap and Pooja over several issues, but she was never harassed for dowry or for not bearing a male child. Her extreme act was the result of a desire to be heard and break free from exploitation,said member, National Council for Women, Malini Bhattacharya.


This is a report by Himanshi Dhawan in the Times of India..

..."Bhattacharya said,"Pooja told us that that she was unhappy at her parents home and ran away from there several times.She fell into bad company and we suspect was trafficked by people..."....and further.."Two cases have been registered by the police for dowry harrasment under 498a of the Indian Penal Code and the Domestic Violence Act.

the report also mentioned that Pooja was not harrased for dowry.

Now Ms bakshi you have the all this on paper
...National commission for women member Malini Bhattacharya has herself confirmed that there was no harrasment for dowry...pooja has booked two case of 489a against her in laws....please tell all of us why you have unncessarily written about this ROADSHOW?

acerbic...there is nothing we can do peacefully to cure Bakshi and the likes from psycho-neurotic disorder that they are suffering from.

They write about woman's victimhood because their stories do not sell otherwise. They are fighting for their bread by mindlessly churning out their own hallucinations about women's victimization.

The disease they are suffering from is cognitive and driven by gene which compels a humans to think and behave like sheeps.

They have been tutored from childhood to think and act like that. One can either be part of the problem or part of solution. They have chosen themselves to be part of problem and they are enjoying their work. What else do would one expect. They get paid(directly or indirectly) for publishing their delusions and they are enjoying it. They call it work satisfaction .

If you stop or question them for writing this crap then you are punching their bellies and are infringing on their primary source of income.

For them a woman is a victim even if court grinds men for years, finds nothing against them and relinquishes them of any charges. They tend to describe such actions of courts as autocratic, gender insensitive, plight of woman and miscarriage of justice.

There is no point breaking your head against these walls. You can convince people who are mentally healthy, Unlike these who are suffering from this incurable disease.

Now that Pooja episode is over, Few things are high of their agenda list...

1) Those who went to Rajkot and compiled this report(which according to them is still half truth and incomplete) are going to get sacked from their positions for not being able to handle the episode "gracefully" and for doing something which resulted into foot in mouth posture for these feminists. NCW, which is one of their subsidry will come in for severe flak.

2) Severe ,unbridled Character assassination and character mutilation of the now hapless Pooja in order to reinstate their stance that Pooja is just one of those rarest exceptions.

3) Plans to plant and then highlight a case of similar or more severity...As a part of damage control exercise of their hurt egos(I mean esteems). The mining for it has already begun.

Once the case is identified(obviously given population of 1 billion there are reasonable chances that with their collective efforts some case in some remote corner of country could be narrowed down), they will broadcast it once again with increased vociferation using their standard tag lines like "tip of the iceberg", thousands and lacs of women who suffer in recluse and go unreported, missing females and so on so forth.


I would suggest you to leave them in their well and move outside to spread awareness.
Pleaser write blogs, distribute pamphlets and make people aware , not about Pooja but about these creatures who are dominating the media and political scenario of country. Our only recourse is in educating the common man and comman woman on streets. They and only they can turn the tables and nuke their hazardous effect on India family.

I would go for the theory......

Pooja Chouhan was busy making money through prostitution while her husband was away labouring
to earn two square meals

Should we legalise prostitution now to give a respectable face to victimised Rev. Pooja Chauhan ?
-----------------------
"#5 It is with a tinge of sadness that I read all the above comments. I do not want to go into a spat that will lead nowhere..
I am sure that there is an element of truth in all that is said.. however I go by the fact that I have for the last 8 years worked with women and seen the abuse, the harassment, the hurt and the helplessness that normally remains locked in silence.. and I guess it is for each one of us to react in a way we feel comfortable with"
-------------------------------

Ms Bakshi, can we expect another post from you on the same topic - your reaction in the way you feel comfortable with. (Now that the things are more in black and white)

It is still stated that Pooja was indeed harassed by ther husband to such an extent it was affecting her mentally. That was the extent of the torture,

#213 FF - Brilliant write up. I really liked the part where you accurately portrayed the future course of the feminazis as they wipe the collective egg on their faces. The mining for the new "tip of the iceberg" story must have begun in earnest already.

The saving grace is - with the cutting analysis posted by you, anon, siffer, sumanth et al, the filters by which such isolated sob stories would be viewed is dimmed a little. We should continue our efforts at spreading the awareness. Desicritics is just a drop in the ocean.

We need to expand the audience in all sections of the society both nationally and internationally. That is the duty of all decent and responsible citizens. Neither of these terms apply to the defenders of the indefensible.

Well said FF,
Bakshi is so ashamed, that she will now never come out and post any thing on the internet.

Pooja stipped to show the real bakshi.
Kudoes to pooja.

What is your defence now Ms Bakshi?...

[edited]

I am really disappointed by comments messing the whole article. We are such a hypocrite and hogwashed society that we cannt even discuss one topic without putting our personal experience into it.
Each situation is different. And none of us would disagree that , anybody (be it man or woman) who are forced to come to this level are in really pathetic situation.
I am not saying Men dont suffer... But the whole thing of generalisation is bad. I totally pity and can empathise with a man who was tortured in domestic fights and I can also give shoulder to a lady suffering marital violence. Because above all I am a human.
For People writing weired things , I am sure they are at some wrong junctures in their life. And maybe they have suffered through their other halves. But lets not get so personalized here.
We are talking about "one-of the case" , where a normal person (i would have felt equally bad if it was a male also) was forced to limit of disrobbing her modesty to make a point.
Now I even have one doubt, when she was suffering so much, Why her first priority was not getting out of marraige than putting ILs into jail. I think there are several lessons for us as a society..
The weight we put on "being married" is way too exaggerated.

Of all the comments read above it is very sad .....that if a woman has stripped naked out of despair ...it is very evident that how all of you here and many outside THE SOPHESTICATED MORAL POLICE have stripped her naked several more times and tried to derive different meanings out of it.

..what will she gain for such an attention,,,if any one could tell me...

WHEN A WOMAN RAISES A VOICE AGAINST VIOLENCE WHY IT IS THOUGHT TO BE AGAINST MEN......CANT SHE as a HUMAN BEING have the right to be heard...

and one person who can claim has not heard of violence against women... i must say then u are BLESSED