Desicritics Comments on Book Review: An Ordinary Person's Guide to Empire by Arundhati Roy

Comment by kanjisheik

Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:53:15 EDT

Just because they did it is not an excuse for our acts.

Comment by Sanjay

Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:48:19 EDT

kanjisheik, I don't see the Muslim population in Gujarat dropping like it did in post-partition Sindh, which had a 35% Hindu population in the 1950s that has then dwindled down to just a few percent today.

Comment by kanjisheik

Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:07:06 EDT

ItinerantIndian, you are missing the point here. Yes, it is true there is a uniform shoddiness in providing services to our country men, irrespective of religion or caste. But I was talking specifics here- Gujarat after the riots. So my point is right. Just check the testimony of any Muslim witness and you'll find that they were refused treatment, or just plain ignored.

Comment by theitinerantindian

Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:07:51 EDT

Kanji- origins regardless - counts in his thousands of deaths those who died because they were discrimanted against, including in the course of treatment. Kanji: you stand corrected. There is nothing discrimintory in india on the offering of emergency services etc. This is ridiculous. You should be responsible. do you realise there are those who will read and believe this to be true of our country? And here is where guys like you fail: there is uniform shoddiness in providing of services to our country men. We suffer, regardless of our affiliation. You fail us when you fail to mention that apathy in public services and bureaucracy is one place where there is no discrimation. When treated badly it happens to all of us uniformly. There may be more of one community present at aplace at a time: for example economically weaker sections may face the worst of treatment - or the best depending on where they are - in availing say maternity services. But thats because others go to private nursing homes. Does it mean weaker sections receive discriminatory maternity services? Correlation is not equal to casue-effect.

Comment by kanjisheik

Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:09:36 EDT

Sanjay, I'm neither a Muslim nor a Leftist. I've never termed Hindus "hatemongers". If anything, the saffron brigade is even more misguided than the Islamic terrorists, because Hinduism is a polytheistic religion that values tolerance and self introspection above all. Do i indulge in self criticism? Yes, because I feel we can be much more than this. We only tend to criticise what we care for; cos if we dint care, we would probably not write anything.. This is no sado-masochism. Constructive criticism is an important step if we intend to evolve into better human beings, both physically and spiritually.

Comment by Atlantean

Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:19:02 EDT

One of the crappiest books I've ever read. I wasted more than 500 bucks on two books "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" and "An Ordinary Person's Guide to Empire" only to find cheap quality non-fiction inside.

Comment by Sanjay

Tue, 3 Jul 2007 03:08:04 EDT

kanjisheik, you say "thousands of Muslims", Deepti says "billions of Indians" Your own exaggerated stats only help to fuel the hatred of others. Why don't you stop doing that? Look at which community continues to engage in revenge attacks like the Mumbai bombings -- it's pretty clear which community is in the grip of a revenge mentality. Your asymmetric and unbalanced criticisms mask that fact. You'll slantedly term Hindus as "hate-mongers" but Muslims as "misguided". Sorry, but it's easy for me to see which ethnic group hyperactively engages in self-criticism, and which ethnic group vigorously suppresses self-criticism. Sado-masochism is not a healthy way to maintain harmony. When Muslims and Leftists start engaging in healthy self-criticism, then it will help them to gain some credibility. But if they only want enlightened criticism to apply to others and not themselves, then they'll continue to alienate others and impede engagement.

Comment by kanjisheik

Tue, 3 Jul 2007 02:59:37 EDT

Sanjay, when i said 'thousands", i meant all the Muslims who died during the riots, the injured who died after the incident due to discrimination by givt, doctors, the people who died as a result of police apathy.. I meant them all- not just the immediate toll thats used for statistics. The Godhra incident was a terrible one, no doubt. But its a bit silly to imply that just because something happened, we should retaliate for it. As Gandhi said,"AN EYE FOR AN EYE MAKES THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND." So we, who pride ourselves for our tolerance, should stoop to the level of the Islamic terrorists who MISGUIDEDLY believe they are fighting a jihad.

Comment by Sanjay

Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:49:04 EDT

"thousands of muslims" Uhh, the Muslim death toll was below 800, and the Muslim-Hindu death ratio was 3:1, including the death of unprecedentedly high numbers of policemen. You'll of course make no mention of Akshardam attacks, or even the Godhra train burning which started it all. The Godhra dead can tell no tales, so you'll claim it was all a weird accident. Sorry, but those people didn't commit hara-kiri, even though the Red-Green (Leftist-Islamic) combine are certainly trying to portray it that way.

Comment by kanjisheik

Mon, 2 Jul 2007 04:15:03 EDT

1]Sanjay, i think you misunderstood the point. When Arundhati talks about nationalism, she is referring to the jingoistic version [remember India after Pokhran?] 2]Nationalism per se is not bad. Its what people do under the pretense of nationalism thats bad. If Kashmiris want to become independent, can we blame them. We are at fault for destroying their lives. The human rights violations make us no different from the Israelis.. 3]Can you please point out instances of Hindu religious bigotry which Arundhati has talked about? What is your opinion of what happened in Gujarat? Did thousands of Muslims commit hara kiri just because they felt like doing it? Sanjay, just think before you write... :) Ofcourse, every religion has bigots. But it is better for us to set our house in order before looking into the other's house. I hope you get the meaning. 4] Refer 1]. 5]Sanjay, please mention any comment about the Soviet Union that seems to you as a praise. In fact, you will find out that she has condemned communism in her book, IF YOU HAD BOTHERED TO EVEN READ IT!!!! 6] Roy has always differentiated the American establishment from the people, unlike you. She has always praised the American anti war activists as brave people-"as brave as an Iraqi fighting for his country". Unfortunately, its people like you who cant differentiate George Bush and Co. from the American people. 7] and unfortunately for you, Sanjay, I'm no Muslim [though I've gone to mosques and do admire some of Islam's tenets- however, i feel that there is a lot of wrong interpretations to the teachings of Islam] I'm a Hindu. Just like you. I hope. Or is Sanjay a Muslim's name? :) Dude, I aint no Leftist! :~) 8] Instead of talking about Pakistan is doing, I think we should discuss what our country is doing and [try to] rectify the faults. 9]"After struggling for several years, several non violent peoples' disobedience movements have come up against a wall and feel, quite rightly, the need to change direction" Sanjay, has she said that SHE feels violence is right? No. So your argument falters there. Think about it. And if you want to say something, be my guest. I'll be waiting! :~)

Comment by Sanjay

Sun, 1 Jul 2007 18:25:28 EDT

Oh, btw, here's An Ordinary Person's Guide to Islamic Rage: http://www.snappedshot.com/archives/976-Islamic-Rage-Boy-Parody-Roundup.html That Kashmiri activist has become an internet sensation, with his ridiculously lunatic antics. This kid is a hoot. Be sure to scroll all the way down the page, because some of the better pictures are near the bottom.

Comment by Sanjay

Sun, 1 Jul 2007 18:04:03 EDT

"The space for non violent civil disobedience has atrophied. After struggling for several years, several non violent peoples' disobedience movements have come up against a wall and feel, quite rightly, the need to change direction." So she's endorsing violence. Well, if it's okay for her to endorse violence in further of her nutty views, then why isn't it okay for others to be violent as well? How does she have the moral authority to legitimize violence?

Comment by Sanjay

Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:55:20 EDT

Kanjisheik, is Pakistan not showing imperialist ambitions when it strives to take over Afghanistan using fundamentalist militants? Isn't that an act of imperial conquest? Will Arundhati Roy address this question? Is this not imperialism? What else would you call it -- altruistic friendship?

Comment by Sanjay

Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:51:45 EDT

kanjisheik is being quite dishonest and hypocritical by praising Arundhati Roy's dishonesty and hypocrisy. Tell me, if nationalism is bad, then isn't Pakistani nationalism (2-nation theory) and Kashmiri nationalism bad too? Arundhati Roy only thinks that Hindus have religious bigotry, but where is the acknowledgement of the overwhelming body of evidence for Islamic religious bigotry? How credible is she if she can't acknowledge this? She has zero credibility, because she won't even make a token acknowledgement. Arundhati condemns nationalism and the American invasion of IndoChina in the same breath, but weren't the Vietnamese fighting as nationalists? Tell me, what was the Soviet Union, if not an empire? Again, she lacks consistency and credibility in her amazingly selective diatribes. What about Arundhati herself going to the United States to live and accept awards? If you're going to protest fur, then don't be wearing it, because then you look like a hypocrite. How is she suddenly discovering the US as being evil, when all the previous years she was basking in its glow? She's a vile hypocrite and an overwhelmingly slanted person. She doesn't even have the intellect to recognize her hypocrisy. And neither does kanjisheik. Muslims like kanjisheik are suddenly and conveniently discovering Leftism as their savior, but where was your support of Socialism when it was under attack by Islamic militancy in Afghanistan? Where is your support of secular socialism when it's under attack by Islamists in Turkey? Ohhh, then your "socialist secular" values suddenly disappear and are nowhere to be found. No credibility whatsoever in you.