UNICEF (India) Chief Accused of Attempted Rape

This is a serious case. And if you, the author (Sumanth) is reasonably certain (I understand we can never be absolutely certain) about this; I would request you to send this article as a link to UN Secretary General and various other senior members (UN has few blog sites as well). I came across one similar article ("UN-believable" though it involved junior staffs); and there are reports of public misconduct of various UN-ambassadors (recently in Quantas Airlines by British actor Ralph Fiennes who was one of their ambassadors to India). There are ambassadors like Roger Federer again who is a role model from many dimensions.

In 2nd thought I realize the difficulties: from whom do we expect action first - our own Government or the UN? One is incompetent, bureaucratic; and the other may ignore such incidents in developing nations (and may be selectively bureaucratic).

I would be glad to see some UN official posting here soon assuring the world at large about fair investigation to this incident, or even in case investigation was carried out and the case didn't have enough merit. Our trust and respect to UN thereby can be further ratified.

Is this individual protected by diplomatic status? I'm not sure if the law is different in this case, or is he an Indian citizen?

No, he isnt.

Media bias is disturbing. I first discovered this article in Deccan Herald, Bangalore. We could not get the link. Then, we tracked it to UNI and Tribune.

No other Newspaper or TV channel bothered to talk about it. They should have talked about it in a balanced manner.

Deccan Herald article says, that the lady Archanan Pandey even approached NCW and still nothing happened since last 15 days.

This reminds me the story or Anjana Mishra of Orissa.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1905236.cms

I am still trying to understand the working of Indian Media and who pulls the internal strings.

We need to create alternate Media in Internet which can be fifth pillar of a Democracy.

Hi

I saw this on NDTV.

I think they did some sort of internal investigation and found out that ther accusations were incorrect. Her contention was that the people who carried out the investigation were close/junior to the accused.


here is a smallnote


New Delhi: The head of UNICEF in India Cicileo Adorna has been cleared of sexual allegations after a probe by the United Nations.

Archana Pandey, an assistant communications officer who made the allegations says the UN system was unfair to her.

Pandey said Adorna sexually harassed her and she complained several times to her senior colleague Corinwood but he ignored them.

"He forced himself upon me, the only thing he couldnt do was rape me," Pandey said of Adorna.

She claims she faced insults at work after she made the complaints. The UN sent an enquiry committee to probe the charges.

"I dont trust the committees probe, she said.

When NDTV asked Cecilio Adorns and the UNICEF about the charges, an email reply stated:

"UNICEF takes allegations against women seriously. The agency have got a probe by a team of experts into the matter - and have found all charges baseless".

Pandey says UNICEF did not bother to send a copy of the probe report to her.

As UNICEF employees enjoy diplomatic immunity, Pandey has little legal options before her. For now she has complained to the National Commission for Women.

How can UN investigate attempt to rape allegations and clear the accused. UN is not a court. UN can only investigate the sexual harassment at workplace part of it and not the "attempt to rape" portion of alleged crime.

>>"He forced himself upon me, the only thing he >>couldnt do was rape me," Pandey said of Adorna.

The govt can ask UN to remove diplomatic immunity (if it exists). Similar incident happened in a case involving Munir Akram (a UN representative from Pakistan).

Okay Sumanth,

If there is some truth, she will also get a fair trial and dont we all know that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

And your point is ......?

Vidhya, why does there need to be a point - condemn the prick, assuming he's one.

Media should come out with the balanced report. But not all channels/papers are giving this serious issue its due importance. Quite Pathetic!!!

At the same time, the dubious role played by NCW till now in this matter is deplorable. Commission's head did not waste any time coming out in support of Rakhi Sawant, because of media coverage. Their apathy towards such a sensitive matter questions their method of functioning (if any?).

Definitely UNICEF's credibility is on stake and matter requires thorough investigation by Police.

In India, the real victims do not get justice.

This forces the society to endlessly keep strengthening laws. It is like increasing dosage of a medicine because the medicine cures the symptoms and not the disease.

Finally, the side effects of a high handed law bring much more new problems which diverts us from original problem.

It is important that the legal process is adhered to in each and every case. I have seen extremely poor people being arrested in Bangalore who do not even have money to pay for getting a bail in a "bailable offense".

So, are Indian Laws only to be applicable to the poor and uneducated?

Are people whose duty is to protect women and children, above these laws? How can they get benefit of doubt?

If one goes by Sumanth line of logic Amitabh Bachan should be in jail. Pravin Babi had "documented evidence" and had complained to the media and everyone who is anyone!

UN has a zero tolerance policy on gender related violence and harassment. UN has conducted a full pledged enquiry into every allegation and found no substance in any of this.

Archana Pandey started complaining only after she was told her contract would not be renewed.

Is this personal vendetta. Is she taking all of us for a ride? Too many questions to be ansered before we all take a stand.

Who is UN to conduct enquiry when the allegation attracts CRPC of India.

Its the matter of Indian Police.

#11 - According to U, only ICC should have probed Woolmer's death and not Jamican Police.

Come to the terms Ma'm!!!

Sumanth

I think in the future I would request you not to make blanket statements before verifying them

"No other Newspaper or TV channel bothered to talk about it. They should have talked about it in a balanced manner"

As I showed you NDTV had indeed reported the same and in a balanced manner.

rgds

Chandra

Glad you pointed it out! and made a point!

Sumanth is wrong again. Aajtak spent whole of Women's day repeating this story over and over basically quoting Archana.

Is UN above Indian Constitution?

Is UN a Judicial Body?

If I assume that the lady made false charges and hence UN cleared the guy, then why the same UN does not clear thousands of innocent poor people in India who are also facing false rape or false attempt to rape charges.

It is pity that there are two standards for the rich and poor. There are too standards from UN and IT Professionals.

UN is a terrorist organisation which promotes false cases against innocent elders in India and at the same time takes over the job of Judiciary.

UN has no right to do any investigation in "Attempt to Rape" case. It can only do investigation is sexual harassment case.

Even if an organisation clears the guys name, the victim can always apeal to NCW and courts.

Let follow the constitution of this country.

One one hand UN promotes jailing of innocent elders in false 498a cases and on other hand it bypasses the legal procedures of a country to give clean chit to an official facing serious charges.

Imagine tomorrow, an UN official will be accused of raping a young girl and murdering her. Her parents start running from pillar to post for justice.

I have a simple question:

Will UN start doing investigation sidelining Indian Police and Judiciary?

Imagine, what will happen if it gives clean chit.

Its is pathetic that some Indians can be so irrational in their arguments.

Chandra:

Please give me the exact link of NDTV news. I would like to have links of this story in Internet. What proof is there that Aaj Tak talked about this story? What proof is there that Aaj Tak is not biased?

If you provide these sources, then I will ask for apology.

We will protest against UN and its double standards.

It is foolish to assume that all UN employees are saints because UN fight against DV, Rape, Dowry prohibition leaving the poor children in streets of Bangalore to dance and beg in traffic junctions.

In many countries, DV shelters are converted to brothels.

May be some people think that UN officials should get some concessions when they are accused of committing any crime.

How pathetic.....

every institute has a zero tolerance policy for corruption and unethical practices. have corruption and unethical practices ceased to exist? or are they punished every time?

un stood for sanity and hope in a world gone mad; the name inspired safety. for a wman to be treated this way inside an organ that exists solely to protect them is despicable. evn worse is the apathy she faces. think of it..if it was your wife, your daughter, your mother..would we deny our kin the fair oppurtunity for jusice?

justice is not in punishing the man, as for some fanatics who cry out that the man ws found innocent. if he is, why hasn't the report been given to the complainant? why hasn't the investigation procedure been made clear? why werent the accused (& the accuser) quarantined and why were they allowed to work in the office where they could influence potential witnesses? mind you, these are grounds which first world countries denounce as crimes against human rights and any court would dismiss this case as unfair practice. to ask and demand answers to these questions is justice.

to say things like she started making these accusations only after her contract was not renewed is to show the worse sort of one's prejudice! it's disgusting. was the esteemed commentator there for himself when this happened? did he conduct his own investigation? can he establish his claim in the court of law, or stake his life on his "timeline"(comment)? worse, can he stake another human's dignity, life and rights on it???

an accused is innocent until proven guilty. and here much more is at stake: the reputation of an international organisation that relies on goodwill to do its work. for that purpose why hasn't the accused offered himself open to any probe to prove his innocence? why is the beuracracy giving the impression of hiding behind the vague verdict of "baseless allegations"? this implies perceptible guilt or at least a very serious moral lapse.

Sumanth makes a point. The UN certainly doesn't have any saints!! As a matter of fact, the immunity is a perfect recipe for some pretty questionable behaviour.

The sad fact though is that the UN's money buys most people's integrity and silence. Indra Jaisingh, the so-called famous women's rights lawyer, turned down Archana's case because they receive hefty funding support form the UN.

The same is happening with the media now. The big houses are ignoring this news because they don't want to miss out on UN largess - some of their own senior editors/journalists are consultants getting hefty paypackets from UN agencies.

Bottom line is a foreign woman - diplomat or not - can file a case for a crime but an Indian woman has nowhere to go even if she is assaulted by a powerful but protected, diplomat.

UNICEF keeps harping on the "internal investigation". The sham enquiry didn't even call on all the witnesses named by the complainant. They had already decided the outcome even before starting the farce.

After all what can one lonely woman do against a global UN organisation?

Thank you Sumanth. I was no longer sure there still existed people who believe in fairness and justice. And believe in life's ideologies and also have the courage to speak up. My logic is simple. If the accused were not found guilty, why not release the report? How can an organisation conduct an investigation, declare the verdict without even bothering to provide the report to the lady. It seems most logical to me that UNICEF should have thrown the report on Archana's face and should have asked her to shut up. Why are they not taking action to stop Archana from defaming the organisation? If they do not make the report public, aren't they assuming the role of the judge, the jury and the executioner, all rolled in one? I am so scared on what trend it can assume in future? They can do anything and get away with it?

Lopamudra, how can you be so sure that she started complaining only after she was told that her contract will be terminated? How can you be sure that her contract was not terminated just because she refused to give in?

I am basing my comments on what I heard Archana saying on the rather long interview of Aj Tak on March 08.

Ms Pandey was very much part of the very UN system which everyone is eager to despise now through these colunms.

I personally think that people like Mr. Cecilio Adorna, who abuse their power and authority as well as their organisation's reputation, ought to be stripped naked and skinned alive. But of course, this is my own personal feeling and I should not be attacked for having expressed it.

As regards the legality of the whole issue I would like to tell the lady concerned that as an Indian citizen the Indian legal court houses will always have jurisdiction to try the matter both as a criminal and civil matter (though it shall be done separately; and can be done simultaneously) under Section 3, 252, 354, 321, 348-352, Assault, Battery, etc. and under Section 9 of the Civil Procedure Code respectively.

The abovementioned Section 9 of the Civil Procudure Code says that when the tribunals, committees, commissions as per any law or contract or otherwise are unable to address all the issues or give complete justice to the person, then the civil/criminal courts have the necessary jurisdiction to interfere and deliver justice. In this case of Archana may approach the civil courts in India and ask for justice, since she has not been given the right to appeal and since there is arbitrary procedure followed in the findings and delivery of award by the designated internal commission that the UNICEF had appointed.

But since the Indian legal system is more that pathetic, I suggest she approach that court in whose jurisdiction even one such incident had happened at any point of time.

On a personal note may I add that Archana ought to be applauded for the tremendous effort that she has taken to raise her children despite all these odds.

Archana, if you ever read this, please don't be scared of that moron of a boss that you had. If you are scared, your children will beget that sort of fear and never be able to face the world when they grow up. I am sure you don't want that to happen and therefore shall do all that is possible to make them strong.Please tell the whole world about what happens in a place like UNICEF otherwise your silence will make that man to do it to other girls and maybe small children also someday. And your silence today shall be contributor to that. There is no need to feel ashamed or weak. You have done in your age what others can only dream to conjure someday.
May God be always with family.

I am saying all this because I know what it feels like to grow up in the shadow of fear as my father was a alcoholic and a very abusive individual.

Sumanth

Here is the NDTV link

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070003071

rgds

Dhruv, you seem to be a lawer by profession. If all that you say is correct about Archana's rights for seeking justice, why is her FIR not being lodged?

Why are people even talking about diplomatic immunity? Can UNICEF show us the rules that protect senior officers like Adorna against CRIMINAL laws of the land?

What is the super boss of UNICEF silent? What is he doing to resolve the situation? Or does he even know about it?

Why is the Secretary General of the UN silent? On one hand he claims to be cleansing the UN system. We all know that Washington Post is UN's mouthpiece which all the time projects what a great job he is doing. What are his plans to cleanse this mess?

Yes, archana is entitled to seek justice, and a lot more. It must be the corrupt and beaurocratic outdated system that is not coming ahead to support her.

The investigation that the UNICEF claims to have undertaken, can not be called a formal inquiry. At its best, it is an organisation peer review which has all the possibilities to be biased, pressured and influenced. It is not a legal redressal to such a serious crime. There is no jury, judge or lawyer here to examint the case from all its angles.

Thank you Sumanth for bringing this issue. Its not matter of one individual now, its about the reality of International Organizations talking about human rights, women's right.

I agree with Poornima, no rule can defy common sense. How can a complainant be denied of her investigation report?

I am sure UNICEF must be spending handsome amount in damage control but still not ready to give the report. Isn't it surprising Lopa?

Its good that Ms Archana was working with UNICEF, otherwise we would have never seen the "real face" of so-called humanitarian organization.

Is this Sonia Sharma from the NDTV ,the one with a nasal accent ?

Does that matter....nasal accent I mean??? We are here to discuss a very serious and thought provoking topic. I will like to request all of you not to get personal and come together to brainstrom on how these kind of crimes can be stopped.

I will also like to invite all of you to suggest how to take this particular case forward. We all here seem to be socially conscious citizens and that seems precisely the reason why we are discussing this cowardly and disgusting crime.

i just wanted an autograph thats all

Sumanth

What is SIF -the save indian family doing to help Archana?

You guys very successfully(I believe) helped Gaurav. Help Archana too, she needs help, she needs SIF.

Merely bashing UNICEF is not going to help her. She needs a practical help and you have the resources and power to help.

A similar case few years ago - an elderly south african judge of indian origin was accused of rape in a Mumbai hotel.NCW 'feminists' and a lot of fellow travellers joined in.Later he was proved to be innocent.The moral of the story is that every accused should be given due process.Assorted feminists want to suspend natural laws of justice and jurisprudence whenever there is a whiff of oestrogens.

That an individual crime has taken place in a UN organization is a possibility and until proven cannot be taken to be a fact. People who join the UN are from amongst us and are as prone to misbehaviour as another man on the street. However, they certainly cannot be shielded under the garb of diplomatic immunity.

Why have we all assumed that the trial was unfair and biased ? One has read of people at the highest levels in the UN being punished when found guilty. The fact that the UN has a system in place for investigating an offense internally without compelling the aggrieved to approach the courts, which can be extremely difficult for a person, speaks of the organization's commitment to justice.

On the "Aaj Tak" programme, Archana said that the statement of only three of the 23 witnesses are sufficient to establish the crime. What about the statement of the remaining 20 ? Do we assume that the remaining 20 were bought out by the higher powers ? The UN should be asked to make public the findings of the investigation. It is important to know more from the organization failing which it will continue to be maligned for an incident of which the public hears only one side of the story.

I think a thorough investigation should be conducted and the comprehensive investigation report should be made public at some point of time. The matter owing to seriousness of allegation and also the high reputation of organization involved, should be thoroughly investigated.

The culprit(whosoever it maybe) should be brought to book. It may be the chief himself or the lady falsely accusing.

Sumanth


I hope you saw the NDTV link that I posted.


rgds

chandra

Some of you have hit the nail on the head. If the investigation was unbiased and impartial and found the accused not guilty, why not make the report public. Let everybody see how could a woman accuse him wrongly. Expose the woman if she is lying. Till they are reluctant to do so, UNICEF will be and should be treated as hiding the facts and shielding the guilty.

the victim herself told me about this blog. i m happy to know that at least a debate has taken place.
i agree with Purnima,
first - the report should be made public or at least the complainant should be taken into confidence. If an inquiry has been conducted - the report should highlight and substantiate who is right who is wrong.
the decision cannot be one-sided.
second - instead of condemning archana - we should help her find her peace and respect back. no woman ( i am a woman myself) would go to such an extent and would malig her image just for the renewal of her contract - its ridiculous to even think like that.
if a woman decides to get herself humiliated in public - it is for justice. but ridiculing her or doubting her would discourage many other women who are facing similar situations in other organisations.
it is difficult to prove sexual harassment as it normally does not take place in public. This is one of the few rare cases of sexual harassment - but if it gets diluted or subsided under UN pressure, no other woman would ever dare bring such atrocities in the open.
lets all try to reach a consensus to help the complainant and try to persuade UNICEF to show the report at least to the person who has filed the case.

no woman ( i am a woman myself) would go to such an extent and would malig her image just for the renewal of her contract - its ridiculous to even think like that.

Even when I am in favour of punishing the guilty(whosesoever it may be) but being impartial since I do not know the truth...I would disagree because

1.I do not think by alleging that somebody "tried"/"attempted" to assault her, she looses any of her dignity/image e.t.c

2. Women do lie and with contract as a reason, she can?

but if it gets diluted or subsided under UN pressure, no other woman would ever dare bring such atrocities in the open

On the contrary, if gets proven that the she indeed lied what damage may it do?

However I clearly see that with the clout of UN, it is going to be uphill task for her to prove.

I consider mandatory the use of established practices like narco analysis and polygraph tests in such sexual harassment cases where it is difficult to prove the guilt.

I want to thank you all from the core of my heart for your support and encouragement.
I came to know about this blog day before yesterday and after thinking over it, see no reason why I should not participate and share my trials and tribulations directly here.

Well, first of all, I have some bad news. I had an appointment to meet with the Police Commissioner today in the morning. After keeping me waiting for six hours, he saw me - for 2 minutes. And all he had to say is that the police is not ready to formally file my FIR yet. They are seeking legal opinion on it, he said.

Despite my pointing out the legal validity of the complaint as per the Indian Criminal Penal Code, the MEA Protocol Guidelines and the UN Charter on Privileges and Immunities, he seemed unmoved. The UN Charter clearly states that immunity and privilege are to help UN officials in the "performance of their official duties" and not meant to shield them from criminal acts in violation of the law of the land.

Of course this is the result of some high-level lobbying on the part of UNICEF. They have on their pay-roll a couple of politically well-connected "consultants" who are on the PM's Advisory Council and whose contacts are useful in cases like this. These persons are paid lakhs of rupees precisely to wield this kind of political clout, at the highest level.

However, when I chose this path six months ago, I went in fully aware of the powerful and almost unlimited resources the organisation would use against me. But I HAVE TO DO THIS. Otherwise I won't be able to live with myself.

Sumantha, Dhruv, and all others, please accept my heartfelt gratitude for displaying the courage to bring this out in the open. Dhruv in particular I want to thank you for making some concrete suggestions about the legal way forward. That is extremely helpful.

During these six months what I've found is that if one door closes, another opens up. People do believe and they do help. I am more determined than ever to pursue this to its logical conclusion - no matter what that is.

I'm not looking at the medium term here, but am reconciled to fight this for the next 6-10 years if need be.

Thank you all again.

Archana

Best of Luck, Archana, and whatever support Desicritics and the blogosphere in general can give you, please ask - you can email me at the email address on my name - I'm the publisher of Desicritics.

Thank you Archana for your dare to fight it out...I have been through some legal hassles in past...but I see that you can not hide justice and truth for long... I wish you succeed and come out in flying colors, and get those culprits (men and women) behind bars who not only denigrate women but also put image of honest men at risk.

You seem to be fighting a battle against odds, but in the end when you win (which I am hopeful of) please do bring to light all those who choose to obstruct you from fetching justice.

Your move to switch to internet for gathering support should go a long way to assist you.

My 2 cents...choose a lawyer who can not be bought. A dependable lawyer will save you lot of potential grief even if she/he is not a very sharp one.

Hi there. Lets not become judge. Even in our country, each department has its own investigation procedure but it doesn't stop complainant to go to Police and judiciary for justice.

Why Archana should be denied this opportunity?

If UNICEF is so confident about the fairness of their investigation, they should have given the report way back.

Isn't it pathetic that NCW is sitting quietly and Police Commissioner want legal opinion even to lodge a FIR?

This shows why people don't go to Police even in worst condition.

Archana, I think court can help you in this situation.

Archana,

I am happy to see that a lot of bloggers and other people have come to support you so that your voice can be heard.

You can contant www.saveindianfamily.org and its helpline at Delhi 098106 11534 and you can meet SIF volunteers. This organisation works for gender equality and questions various unethical practices that go on in Indian law enforcement system. We in SIF are concerned that miscarriage of justice is rampant in India. SIF members are well versed in many sections of Indian Penal Code even though not all are lawyers. SIF has got at least one Supreme Court lawyer with itself.

SIF is also critical about UN and UNICEF for some of its own reasons.

I wish you best of luck on behalf of SIF.

Chandra,
Thanks for posting the NDTV link. I sincerely apologize for writing "None of the TV channels reported this" in this article. I was wrong.

I hope you will accept my apologies and acknowledge.

Apology not required, acknowledgment was required.

Thanks anyway.

I have never agreed to many of your debates but people like Hardy have been able to furnish hard data to support their arguments. I am thankful to you guys that my awareness has increased. In fact a few days back I directed on of my friends to call your helpline number to seek help from wife harassment. He has contacted and is finding it very useful. Thank you

Having said that, I will continue fighting both siffers and feminists on any extreme arguments :-)

take care

All the best Archna.

Recently SC while quashing Lalu/Rabri Yadav's plea (against Disproportionate Asset case), on the ground of Political immunity declared that 'Sanction (approval) from Speaker or concerned Authority before taking action is needed only when the act is done while officiating duty".

It stated sarcastically that, since crimes do not come under the official duty so no sanction (approval) is required and Police can take direct action what ever they deem fit.

Trust me, I have done my research and when I decided to lodge FIR, I did so only after getting legal opinion on the procedure as is applicable to diplomats and UN officials.

Police will ultimately HAVE TO register the FIR. There is no other way. This country - thank God - has a constitution and a legal system - no matter how slow or corrupt. And if the grinding wheel of the law caught up with a powerful politician like Lalu Prasad Yadav, Mr. Adorna and his cohorts will not be spared.

Sumantha, once again thanks for your suggestion. I will definitely contact saveindianfamily to leverage their network and mobilise support.

I am just really thankful that this issue has now come out into the public domain. It's hightime the duplicity and hyprocricy of organisations like UNICEF is exposed.

I do not have enough words to thank all of you who have assured me their support and wished me luck.

Sorry for not answering the last night. I just took some additional sleeping pills to end my terrible day. Am seeing your comments now.

I really am feeling so overwhelmed. Thanks Aaman, thanks Sumanth, thanks Hardy, thanks AK Rathor and thanks Sonia.

I find this very touching because all I have seen in last six months is the unmasking of faces. Believe me, most of those people and organisations we revere, have a horrible, selfish and ugly face beneath all the masks that they wear in their public lives.

I have come to a point when it becomes difficult to trust anybody just because people have stabbed me at their first convenience, some of them even being my good friends.

Talking about rules and laws, they all are there and sometimes we do know few. But you will not believe how shamelessly and blatantly they are violated when it comes to a powerful person or organisation. I can tell you how UNICEF in my case has broken many sacrosanct HR rules.

Dear Lopa, can you ask UNICEF to produce my receiving of any information/notice,memo that they claim to have given me for termination of my services? And for what reason? Please mind it, what I am asking is the proof that I received any such thing, not their having one. Show me the mail (though termination notices are not given only on e-mail), a signed document by me receiving this information through a letter/memo sent to me which has my receiving signature on it? UNICEF can verbally say that I filed the complaint after they told me that my contract will not be extended. It is just a statement. Where is the proof? Have you seen this notice of termination that makes you so confidednt? I will request you to show me if you have seen it yourself, and not go through several standardised official UNICEF versions which contains only words describing an action and never producing the facts/proofs that the actions were in reality taken.

If I start writing what all rules UNICEF has broken, even UNICEF staff will not believe it. But I have proofs of all these rules being violated.

Archana, can you share a copy of your complaint and details of the rules broken by UNICEF while terminating your contract?

And yes, I wish you all the best too.

Yes, even I will like to know in detail what was done to you, only to know what ghastly acts UNICEF is out to cover up.

I was just thinking, if these two accused leave the country... then what will happen or have they left, any idea??

I am sure UNICEF will keep fighting (provided our esteemed police lodge the FIR) for years at organization's corporate cost.

But what Archana will get out of it?

In Nitish Katara case, police took more then 3 years to bring Bharti Yadav to India that too because her visa expired. This will never happen in this case.

Dhruv, probably you can address this from legal point.

Let me call UNICEF office and ask for the information. Easy for me since I am based in Delhi. Have to just ask 197 to give me UNICEF's number.

Racheal, I got UNICEF's number - 011-24606164.

But what I raised is not just for today.

Hey guys, guess what I found out. Corinne Woods has left the country with her family the same night as the complaint was filed by the police. UNICEF says it is an official trip. Perhaps it is. But man, that certailly raises some doubts.

You know what, the day Mr. Adorna will leave the country, our Police will get legal opinion.

Archana, have you consulted any lawyer?

Dear Friends,

This issue is to be highlighted by us using letter, email and fax campaigns.

We can send this issue alongwith our complaints to International Media, International bloggers, all offices of UN, UNICEF, UNIFEM, UNHRC, diplomats of all countries present in each country of the world. We all can also mail, fax to all Indian MPs. All these have to be done without any expectations or hope that these guys will act. These guys need to see the show of strength.

Archana can also upload a few minutes video about her ordeal in www.youtube.com which can make International netizens aware of the whole issue.

This is a low cost method to take on the giants who shield culprits by bending legal procedures.


I feel, Archana can directly file a lawsuit under CRPC 200 in front of Magistrate. The Magistrate will then instruct the police. If the Magistrate refuses to accept the complaint, she can move to high court challenging it.

This will open a parallel front. That will reduce her dependency on police. Once the matter goes to court, the court will scrutinise the report prepared by UN officials on this issue.

Can we also do one on petition online. In the meanwhile if we can coalesce a clear next step,we can also write to some media outlets to cover these next steps

The youtube idea is brilliant.

We can also start an e-mail campaign quickly. Why not write to Ban Ki Moon?

rgds

Thank you Sumanth and Chandra. I am stunned after knowing that Corinne has left the country. Well, it may be purely an official trip nevertheless...

Sumanth and Chandra, your ideas are brilliant and give me a ray of hope. But do you even begin to realise what it would mean for you? You are helping a woman who has waged a war with an organisation like UNICEF, that too on the global level. Do you understand the risks involved to you both and to all those who decide to support me?

There are hundreds of staff in UNICEF who know the real truth but are in no position to support me out of fear of retalliation and loosing their jobs.

I am sure that if our collective effort can make our voices heard in the UN and UNICEF headquarters in NY, things may change. I do not know why, but I still have faith in the UN system provided we reach to the right people and provided they are willing to find out the truth, even if it means accepting guilt of their senior officers.

I have loved UNICEF for its mandate and efforts but I have waited long enough to get the justice through internal channels. I was forced to go public because of the cover-up mode that the organisation has adopted.

If respecting the UN and UNICEF means that I should remain silent to protect their misdeeds and give up my rights for seeking justice as a proud citizen of the biggest democracy of the world, then that is a wrong interpretation of loving or hating UNICEF which has resulted in their labeling me as being anti UN.

UNICEF should be happy that one of their own staff members has the strength that they want every woman to possess. What else do they mean by women empowerment?

All I seek is a chance to be heard and of an impartial and unbiased body conducting a transparent investigation. And then punish whoever is guilty. Even me if I am found to be lying.

Am I worse than the Nothari killers who at least have the right to go to various channels of legal systems even if they are found guilty everywhere? And here I am, not being given my own report based on which the accused were found non-guilty.

They have denied me my right to appeal through UN channels which very much exist and function. And look at the audacity and arrogance of the organisation, all this in writing!

I need every ounce of support that any or all of you are capable and willing to offer me.

This to me, is God's way of telling me that I am not alone.

Sonia,

Thanks for providing UNICEF's number. I called UNICEF only to be told that Corinne will be back next week, which is good news for the investigation. They say she is on an official trip which was planned earlier. On asking about the family, I was told that they did not travel together but her husband has been out for some time. She is supposed to have travelled with her daughter who is four years old.

Sumanth and all. Since I have been a part and parcel of the Comunication section of UNICEF, I know that this blog is being very closely monitored by the section and the tracking agency. If any of you have a concrete suggestion or idea, please do not load it on the blog. Feel free to write to me on my yahoo mail, the user name of which is archanapa60

I shall be able to differentiate between the genuine mails and the pretenders.

Hope you will unerstand my need of caution.

I think there was a very good point in the issue raised by Thunder. If Archana claims that in order to substantiate her charges, only 3 witnesses are enough, why doesn't UNICEF make the testimony of these 3 witnesses public?

But of course, an absolute written protection has to be guaranteed to these 3 people by none other than UNICEF's top boss in NY in case these 3 are from within the organisation. Nobody wants to loose their jobs.

Sumanth, can somebody pass on the idea to the Executive Director?

God, how much has been written on this subject after I signed out. It seems that the issue has gripped people as a challenge to their value systems and exposure of double facedness of these humanitarian organisations.

I am happy to read Thunder's comments. It is a relief to know that Corrine intends coming back. I hope she will like to take up my earlier idea and offer herself to Indian legal system for interrogation. Ideally she should do it immediately upon her return to India. Why wait for any summon or official invitation. She is under moral binding not to clear her name but also the name of UNICEF. She should also bring along her witnesses out of those 23 persons who gave their testimony against Archana. Or did they?

I would say that all the the testimonies should be made public to know why the investigation has gone against Archana in a case like this. Archana has also explained that the committee who carried out the investigation was biased. Who were the members on the committee ? What are there connections with Mr Adorna ? Can UNICEF come out and say how the committee was formed ?

I like the ideas of Sumanth and Chandra. Let us all send all these discussions to top UN bosses. All those agencies that Sumanth has mentioned.

Sending a link won't do. They may or may not open it.

How to make sure that we make them read all this. And the campaign that Chandra suggested. Sumanth, I guess you need to take a lead on this.

That is only one side of the coin. We have to also make sure that the Government of India awakes. Ministry of External Affairs should take a lead on this. After all, UNICEF must be operating in India upon request of the Indian Government.

What is Mrs Sonia Gandhi doing on this issue? She is one honest and courageous lady. I am sure once she comes to know of this case, immediate action will be taken.

Does anybody know how to approach her?

I hv seen and worked for so many cases like archana. few were facing same but archana did a good job for the next generation. i am with u.

Thunder, I endorse your firt point butI do not agree with your second point.

No organisation will accept that they constituted a committee which could be influenced or be partal and biased. They will definitely protect the members of the committee.

Why don't you ask UNICEF to formulate a fresh committee the member of which are okayed both by the complainant and the defenders.

Conduct a fresh investigation with the same witnesses so that no new issue is introduced by either party. And keep the proceedings transparent.

My point is who is UNICEF to investgate a criminal charge? What authority does it have to pronounce judgement.

At the best UNICEF can freshly investigate the sexual harassment part of the charges and if proven correct, hand over the offenders to the Indian Government for criminal prosecution.

Anybody, does UN have a specialised legal court which has the mandate to try CRIMINAL charges?

UN has two additional steps - Joint Appeal Board and finally UN Tribunal. I think UN Tribunal is a legal court.

Archana, any development on FIR?

I agree with you on two areas Archana. Unfortunately for you and for UNICEF, we have the wrong set of people here. For sometime now we are feeling that this whole issue could have been handed better. Even senior management has been told only what it needs to know. No discussion no participation. I don't think it would have become so messy with someone like Maria Calivis, for instance, as representative.

And yes, you were pushed to go to the media because of the rigid attitude of the very same set of people. It is tragic that no one thought to sit with you and discuss a mutually agreeable way forward after the verdict. I think a compassionate attitude to help you find a new job and at least perception of flexibility would have helped greatly.

Again you are right that many people know the truth - perhaps not hundreds - but many of them.

Anyway the news is that a former representative is being sent back to India and Ces is on the way out.

Keep fighting Archana. You are on the right track.

But how come Ces (I believe he must be the rapist we all are talking about)leave India? Will our government allow it? Will the UNICEF top boss allow it? How can this man be just pulled out without the organisation trying to clear his and its name?

Shame, shame UNICEF.....

It was an allegation of rape, that had no proper proof. So, we never know for sure and FWIW the UN had conducted an investigation on this a while ago and has closed the case.

Unlike rape, attempted rape issues are far more complex and like in the novel "Disclosure" it could involve just perceptions and with just that it is not easy to arrest a big figure. Probably, there were other employer-employee issues or personal grudge even. So, whatever it is, before arresting the police must investigate thoroughly.

And here the culture of the parties should also be taken into account. A hug or a kiss in European culture is not uncommon while it could be perceived by some Indian woman as an attempt to rape.

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?category=National&id=101987

And none of the mainstream media (that will never stop at sensationalism) cared to report this issue and so it is most probably a dead meat involving a depressed employee accidentally or intentionally perceiving an attempt of rape .

Actually I'm more surprized with this forum where we are discussing some serious issue based on 2 lines in some newspaper. I guess, we need a long way to go for Blogosphere to be treated as a credible news source.

This is deeply troubling news. Doesn't it mean that foreign national can commit any crime with our Indian women and get away scotfree.

Sumanth, we should not allow it to happen. Can we do something about it?

Thunder, you seem to be having a very soft corner for the offenders. Can you tell us whether it is fair for him to leave the country at this moment after Corrine leaving the country on an 'official trip?"

We appeal to UNICEF to stop this mimicry of fairness, at least now.

If this man leaves the country and his female accomplice does not come back, it will go out to prove only what we all already know...that UNICEF is guilty as hell.

But what happens to Archana and her crusade?

UNICEF should be shut down in India.

Balaji,

It's interesting to read your views. But how do you know that the investigation done by UN was fair. Where you part of it? If it was the case what stopped them from giving the report at least to the complainant.

What Archana is asking - a FIR to be registered, thorough investigation to be done, given a fair chance for justice. Is it too much to ask? Isn't it the right of every citizen of an independent country?

If she is putting false allegation, why UNICEF is not lodging a defamation case? Its not that only Mr Adorna and Ms Woods have given their time and energy for UNICEF, 100s of people must have invested their life for this organization. In fact they should also ask why the present management allowed this whole mess to happen. Before coming to public, Archana had give enough time to UNICEF.

Insider, I hope that your former rep takes this issue on a positive note.

It is pathetic to read comments that none of the mainstream media (that will never stop at sensationalism) cared to report this issue. Somewhere above I read UN is spending a lot of money to save its reputation. How? Isn't it clear that it's the media that has been instructed not to give any footage to this serious issue so that it looks like that it is most probably a dead meat involving a depressed employee accidentally or intentionally perceiving an attempt of rape. Even if its dead meat, we, Indians, must get together to save the dignity of a brave INDIAN WOMAN who has shown marvellous courage to unearth an injustice. We must feel safe at least in our own country. Instead of writing our comments of the case being right or wrong, we should come together for the justice, more when it involves our fellow citizen vs a foreigner.

Iam shocked to know the story through media and this site. I have given years of my youth to this organization and lot many like me. Today because of few people, reputation of this organization is at stake. Its shame and worst is - management is ensuring the safe exit of so-called culprits.

I am surprised to read that UNICEF is spending lot of money to save its reputation - by forcing media and probably police. What a use of children's money?

Archana, may GOD give you the strength to fight the evil of the organization with whom you had worked with heart and sole.

What you are suggesting, Insider 2 - supporting Archana's rehabilitation after her illness - was already proposed by HR way back in October 2006. But it was not acceptable to Ces' massive ego.

He insisted on throwing her out.

So a high level team from UNICEF HQ New York is set to arrive in Delhi next week. To do what, I wonder? The composition of the team is interesting: ex-country representative, chief of division of communication and a corporate lawyer.

One only hopes that at the very least, a channel of communication will be opened up with Archana to assess the basis of her strong conviction that is motivating her to go to such lengths. Or simply just initiate a dialogue.

Let's hope this is not yet another high-level cover-up operation to cover up the earlier cover-ups.

One thing is for sure. The media is their target. It will be interesting to watch UNICEF unleash their damage control strategy on the Indian media. And how the latter reacts to it.

What rehabilitation you are talking about Insider? Was she physically or mentally handicapped that she required "rehabilitation"? Don't forget, she was on a fixed term. In between joining duties after her recovery and termination of her contract, she was sent to Bihar and Orissa to take-up difficult assignments requiring interaction with top government officials.

If she was handicapped in any form, how could management assign her these crucial tasks? and how could she delivered them with applause? Was this the reason for terminating her services -- doing her job exceedingly well?

We all know and acknowledge that Archana was a star performer in UNICEF. She was extraordinary not only in Ces's regime but also in the regime of Maria Calivis. I have heard that she has had continuous PERS which any staff can only dream of having. We all still remember the celebrity event she had organised in 2003 for the then Executive Director. That was an evening that gave us yet another reason to be proud of being a UNICEF staff.

Whatever may be the reason for terminating Archana's contract, it can't be performance or misconduct. Most of us can vouch for both these qualities of Archana. She definitely was an asset to the organisation.

NDTV has its own agendas. Pronoy Roy's wife is sister of Brinda Karat, who is wife or Prakash Karat. Brinda Karat runs AIDWA, which is also silent on this issue.

If this guy Ces goes out of the country, then it will prove that he is a culprit. We have UNICEF offices all around India. We will see that they all answer.

We need to make it a slow, but sustained battle. As I get some free time, I will start mailing to all people.

Insider 2, I am very much interested in this high profile team that is arriving from New York. What is their agenda? Are they really looking for a solution or this is yet another damage control and cover-up exercise?

Has UNICEF circulated any mandate for this team amongst its staff? When you say that they ought to meet the complainant, do you mean that they do not intend to? Just too unbelievable!!!!

How can they come to India on this mission and not talk to Archana? Well, if they do not, we do not need any proof about their objective. Not meeting and talking to Archana is a sure admission of guilt.

What I worry about is whether Archana will like to meet them.

Of course Archana should not meet them. It is beyond the mandate of UN to probe criminal charges or even try to answer them. Who are they to bring a lawyer to provide answers on criminal charges which have yet not been investigated by the police? Somebody mentioned about the UN Tribunal. Can they try criminal cases? If yes, then this case should be heard by them, in addition to the Indian police.

No Dhruv, Archana should meet with them, just to know what arguments they bring to the table. I am not saying she should entertain any reconciliation. But meet them, she should.

May be the good sense has finally prevailed on UNICEF and they want to give Archana a chance of being heard. How do we know that the team is not coming to assist Archana in getting justice.

Meet them Archana, in case they approach you. If they do not, well no award for guessing their intentions.

May be they are coming to do the damage control with the indian government. UNICEF has to remain in good books of the government.

How i wish they could assure MEA that the culprit will be handed over to them for trial through Indian judicial system.

Sure they should meet Archana first and then develop an agenda that benefits UNICEF.

How good is UNICEF's programming if they do not conduct a situation analysis first?

Of course the team will meet Archana and the two accused. They can finalise a plan only once they have taken note of all the viewpoints which I think, also means talking to all staff and not only to Ces's nears and dears.

We will watch proccedings of this case with great interest.

Meanwhile, Archana where have you gone?

I am very upset since yesterday with bala's comments. He says that attempted rape in this case could have been Archana's false perception arising out of different cultural sensitivities.

Nothing can be more shocking and humilating for a woman!!!

Archana is 44 year old woman who must have worked in a multi cultural environment like UNICEF for quite some time now. (Nowhere it is mentioned how long Archana has worked for UNICEF).

There is a difference between a woman getting confused about a man's real motives because of cultural differences, and a woman accusing someone for attempted rape.

Attempted rape or rape has one universal language. Difference in culturural norms has got nothing to do with creating false perceptions in a woman's mind.

Sorry bala, I am forced to strongly condemn your viewpoint on this argument.

I can visualise a situation where Archana may make wrongful accusations because her contract was terminated, but the reasons quoted by her will be something different. She will never go to the extent of accusing the Representative for attempted rape. This strength and clarity comes only when something has actually taken place where she has been assaulted by the man.

After all, she must be aware what she is up against and the possible result of her actions.
She does not need to attack herself as a woman by charging a man with attempted rape. Lesser charges will do if she is out for vengeance. But attempted rape, no sir.

Well, we have all seen Archana going from her very lively and fit form to the terribly stressed and consequently ill form. It was a shock to everyone to see her in that state and only a major dent could have forced her into that. Even after that, only Archana with her immense courage could have accomplished the very difficult assignments that were given to her after she returned from her illness.So her termination could certainly not be on the grounds of poor performance.So, then what was the basis for not extending the contract of an employee who everyone knows was doing an exceptional job?Also, it is only her striong conviction because of which she has fought this almost lonely battle and come this far.

Its good to hear that three-member team is coming to India. There will be some movement in this case, provided they are not here to cover-up as some of you have raised.

If this is a fact finding mission, they should definitely meet Archana, and Archana you should also meet them. Never close any channel. In fact, you should ask them to meet jointly with your witnesses together after taking written assurance of confidentiality and non-retaliation. I will also suggest that the whole proceeding should be recorded and two copies made, one to be retained by UNICEF and other for you.

Archana, though I don't know you personally, based on my long experience with UNICEF, I would suggest you to stick to your facts.

I am somewhat puzzled with the purpose of lawyer.
One purpose of having lawyer could be to find ways to ensure that FIR is not lodged, if lodged, then to identify subsequent steps to ensure that culprits donot get arrested. With my limited understanding, I can't think beyond this.

Just support Archana in every possible manner.

Sumanth, Great job! UNICEF staff is finally waking up. Can you stir the media now for an Indian woman's dignity?

The high level team must be having special agenda. It may malign Archana's image in all possible manners. Let us use all possible resources Indian Government, media, NGOs, Indian judicial system, etc. to save the honor of Indians. Lets force our Government and the judiciary not to allow the accused to leave the country till this case is resolved.

Sumanth, now that you have decanned the can of worms, you can not leave it in lurch. It is your and our moral and ethical responsibility to ensure that the issue reaches its destination.

I don't know where Archana is and why is she not responding. Has the FIR been lodged or is it still in complaint status with the police?

All those who want to help Archana should collect together to first see that her FIR is lodged and offenders detained in India.

Secondly, we should try that UN initiates a dialogue with Archana to find out about her grievances first and if possible, do a further investigation to clear their name.

High profile powerful teams and their condemming Archana is not going to clear UNICEF's reputation. They may be able to malign Archana's charachter but how will they restore people's faith in theirs?

Sometimes I wonder if all these outbursts in the blog have actually caused more harm to Archana?

I understand she is encouraged by this. I am sure she will be back once she gets time.

I dont think this team has any intentions to start a healing process certainly not for an ex-staff member, nor for that matter for UNICEF staff.

Let's be under no self-deception. They are coming here to show the organisation's support to Adorna and thoroughly discredit Archana's allegations. They will never abandon one of their own.

I wouldn't be surprised if they even make a show of releasing the enquiry report along with the 20 or so witness statements all showing how people have spoken against Archana. In such a scenario none of those staff members who have deposed in favour of Archana will come and say so for fear of losing their jobs.

And UNICEF has a win-win situation.

See?

Perhaps some of the 'Insiders' on this article will have the sense/courage to come forward publicly in Archana's support.

Insider, very wise thoughts. We all know everything will unfold just the way you have predicted.

What else can we expect from this team, the leader of which is bent double with the weight of Adorna's benovelence.

The wife of this former Representative who is heading this damage control mission, has been accommodated by Ces in number of State offices of UNICEF for monetary gains. The relationship is so strong that all the time she has stayed in Delhi (her stay in India was for more than 6 months), she has stayed in Ces's house. Not a night she has spent in a hotel room while in Delhi.

Just to remind you all, forsaking all the competent and experienced staff of India, Ces had appointed her the focal point for the Hyderabad all staff meeting. She was in-charge of all the negotitations including all the financial ones.

If there is such a strong and well demonstrated friendship between Ces and Alan Court, only a complete fool will expect justice from the man.

We know everything. Go on UNICEF and keep on humiliating us.

My worst fears are that Ces will not take a second to tarnish Archana's charachter. He has done enough damage already. How he had boasted when the previous team was in India, that it was Archana who was harassing him sexually!

Remember, if they could do this to a star performer like Archana, how secure are our jobs? This incident has instilled serious doubts and fears in the minds of national staff who have been brutally reminded time and again that however well they may perform, they can be unceremoniously shunted out just as Archana was.

Nirmala and Poornima,

I doubt if Rang De Basanti model is valid here.

I am one among some 2000 volunteers, who are interested in working as wistle blowers. At the same time, we only make people help themselves.

Organisational mismanagement and harassment of talented and responsible employees is nothing new in this country. Its is up to the people to gather and create a slow, but sustained movement for betterment of society.

Archana or you can contact our Delhi members (helpline 98106 11534) or saveindianfamily.org helplines. I am based in Bangalore. If you have any supporters in Bangalore, then I can help organise a press conference.

But, the real action has to happen at Delhi. UNICEF's behaviour is not important for us. Our police and legal system must take action according to Indian Law.

If there is mismanagement in UNICEF, then it will not be easy to prove and it will not be taken as something serious by media. But, if there is sexual harassment of more than one employee in that organisation, then it is a serious issue.

Reaction to situations often does not help. One has to work systematically with patience to nail these big organisations.

I worked in some very big organisations. All my jobs are in organisations with size bigger than 50,000 people. I have seen enough of harassment of employees in organisations. But, organisations often go extra length to defend their employees/managers even when they know that the person is wrong.

Once the organisation wins the issue, then it takes its own time to fix the erring employee/manager at a time of their own choice.

That way, organisations defend themselves. If Adorna gets into further trouble, then UN or UNICEF can not shriek their responsibility. If UN/UNICEF do not defend Adorna, he may even threaten to spill some more stories about the Organisation.

So, UN/UNICEF will try to do damage control only. Please understand, they are too good in it. They have full legal departments to do such work.

Having said that I wont say, Archana's case is weak. It requires systematic planning and execution. The people who want to highlight it must communicate with each other.

Any further evidences of Mismanagement inside UNICEF will help. By evidences, I mean any material, documents, which establish any illegal actions by the organisation.

Without evidences, we can not do much except talking on the basis of newspaper reports. Of course, I feel, Archana is working on this issue systematically with some of her supporters.

I urge all to create a couple of blogs on this issue at www.blogger.com and start submitting it different blogs and websites.

Even now, there are very few people who are interested in this story.

Please search for all the bloggers who are interested in UNICEF in Blogosphere using following link:

http://www.google.com/blogsearch

Search posts on UNICEF in last 1 day or one week. Reply to these posts with the link to this article on "Cecilio Adorna" so that the blogger can start discussing this issue.

If it clicks, then international bloggers will discuss it. If they discuss it, pressure will build up on UNICEF.

Also, vote for this post on digg, indianpad, etc. - links at the bottom of the article.

Hello to all. My son drew my attention to this blog because it contained such serious charges against UNICEF. I do not know how to use a computer so I have requested my son to type it for me.

In the beginning itself, I will like to condemn the acts of UNICEF's India Representative and also UNICEF as an organisation in matters pertaining to this case.

We are made to sit back and learn lessons of 'Community Participation", "Listening to voices of the undervililedged', 'Total transparancey", 'Government's accountability' etc etc whenever UNICEF organises any workshop or training, over and over again.

Is UNICEF practising these 'MANTRAS' itself while managing such a serious case within their own office? We the government people are called corupt and inefficient. But however much we try, we will take years to come to the level of UNICEF as far as corruption and inefficiency is concerned. I can not find a more relevant example even if I start looking around with a torch in my hand.

I have had the privilege of meeting Mrs Pandey once when she addressed all CMOs meeting few years back. What a personality ! What a dignified woman ! And what an intelligence !!!

She made me desperately want to become a UNICEF employee myself the way she represented UNICEF in our state of Uttar Pradesh. I felt at that time that if such was the face of UNICEF, it must be a great organisation.

UNICEF can not even understand its loss by terminating Mrs Pandey's contract. I can not talk about other programmes with other government departments, but I can say that Mrs Pandey had an unparalleled credibility and unbelievable motivating power when she worked on behalf of UNICEF for our Routine Immunisation and Polio Eradication Programme .

Mrs Pandey, UNICEF people will take a lifetime to achieve what you have already achieved when you helped Government of UP in our polio programme.

You are like my daughter and please know that my everyday prayer will include you from now on.

Aaman, can you give us a step by step guidance on how to vote. And what do terms like 'digg it' or 'india pad' mean?

I should probably write an article about social bookmarking. You can socialize or publicize articles of importance or ones that you like by voting for them at social bookmarking sites like digg.com or indianpad.com - you need to register with these sites and then vote for (or possibly against) them on the sites, if they are not already on the sites, you need to submit the URL. The Digg and IndianPad links for this article are here. This effectively shares the articles with others.

Please note, we can take/hijack/takeover feminist causes as well if it suits our agenda. We have got the necessary domain names with us already. For a hostile takeover, we need numbers and money.

http://desicritics.org/2007/03/06/002320.php
Comment ##151

The motto is lose the battle and win the war.

So, many men will go to jail, go to courts and even pay huge alimonies. They are battles. But, the war is different.

WELL DONE, GOOD ATTEMPT :)

BUT TRY AGAIN NEXT TIME.

My advice is that the mirror image theory is going to only backfire. Always.

What i find interesting is that none of the 'feminist' gang who are all over the place talking about 'big' feminist issues are here..........It is weird that SIFFers are fighting for a woman...

SIFFERS - 1
FEMINISTS - 0

Chandra - I can't talk about anybody else, but I personally don't visit Siffer posts on principle because I consider them a waste of time. A reading of the post itself will tell you why.

However, i've definitely been following this conversation and as and when I have anything constructive to add I'll get in touch with her as she requested above.

And pls, leave the trolling to Kela.