Desicritics Comments on Islam: The Greatest Colonizer Of All Time

Comment by Morris

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:27:20 EST

Thanks Jan for commenting on this old artcle. Otherwise, I would not have read it. Dileep Yogi has done an excellent job and shown us a new way(at least for me) to look at the history of colonizations.

Comment by Jan

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:37:08 EST

Thanks (also from me) to Dileep and Sujaj. Some contributions, (e.g. Atlantean, allat) presuppose that there is one original and correct belief, inherited from some ancient forefathers, that everyone is obliged to believe in. (So they criticise people for dropping one belief in favor of another). Another idea of theirs is that everyone is obliged to resist against violent invaders that import their belief to another territory. I don't agree to either of that. Sometimes invaders really have better ideas than your parents or you, like the invaders that came to my country, Germany. In 1945 they had better ideas compared to those of most Germans. I am lucky that most Germans quickly subordinated themselves to the Russians or the Americans and did not start a century-long struggle of nazi resistance. It is mostly better to improve things from inside the prevailing belief, instead of choosing martyrdom. Probably it is no good idea to be a jew or an atheist if you want to improve education or medical support in the Gaza strip. Of course, the priests of every religion ever demanded their faithful ones to be martyrs for the belief. But if your primary concerns are feeding your children, clean water and a roof over your head, you will be ready to compromise on things like how many gods are in heaven, if your soul goes there after death and if virgins await it there or not. MAPAD, you ask: "Who do YOU want to win the war between Islam and America?" I want my wife to keep her good job, to read books of Voltaire and Marx and to sometimes write stuff like this. The Americans allow me all that. If the muslims allow it too, and if all they want is that I get circumcised and utter in a ceremony "There is no god besides Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet" - well I wouldn't mind if muslims govern me or christians. Just be more tolerant, and the world will be yours. But before you force my wife to walk around like a moving barrel, I would rather want "the Americans" to drop A-boms onto the area where you live.

Comment by Joe

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:22:29 EDT

Comment by Sanjay

Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:13:39 EDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWw0ov-cAUg Michael Caine said:

"... and in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand. Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn..."

Likewise, some will turn to a faith they don't fully understand, and will spend the rest of their days trying to come up with explanations for what they did, while defensively hurling accusations of "Islamophobia". SouthAsian converts don't have the intimate understanding of Middle Eastern history to know the real origins of the religion they've latched onto. Theirs is just a reflexive exercise in defensive self-justification.

Comment by MAPAD

Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:14:33 EDT

People are scared to call a spade a spade because it you speak out against islam you will receive a death threat. If you want to discuss islam at an american university then you will receive a death threat. Muslims use violence and intimidation to silence their critics. Moderate muslims are clearly happy with this status quo because they allow it to exist. Moderate muslims let the terrorists do the dirty work while they fight the jihad thru political and ideological channels. Moderates are terrorists are an excellent team both fighting for the same cause.

Comment by Berry

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:50:20 EDT

Excellent article by Deelip Yogi. A new direction of thinking! Of course some people have tried to twist facts for the sake of argument. I sometimes am more scared of pseudo-seculars like Sujai than people in denial mode(Ahmed). Why these people are scared of calling a spade a spade? Are they scared of some fatwa against them? All we expect of you is keep your eyes open and observe than being the head in the sand ostrich.

Comment by sami

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:02:32 EDT

Great article by Dileep Yogi and excellent (first) comment by Sujai. Both the pieces got me thinking, so thanks for the insights.

Comment by MAPAD

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:49:24 EDT

Ahmed - Which would you rather live in? A Christian country or an Islamic country? Also, who is doing more killing in Iraq right now? Americans or Muslims? P.S. We all saw 9/11, Bali nightclub, London 7/7, Beslan, Madrid, London/Glasgow and muslim truck bombings in Iraq. EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS THAT MUSLIMS CHOOSE TO BE VIOLENT. No scaremongering required.

Comment by Ahmed

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:33:44 EDT

I find it funny how allat is acting as if Christinaity/Islam etc were "imposed on people", and pagan religions weren't! I mean, there is no denying that monotheistic religions imposed their beliefs on others, but so did the pagan religions. Let there be no mistake; there is no difference in the spread of pagan religions and momotheistic religions. Most pagan religions spread with a conquest of another tribe, taking over their region, and imposing their belief on the other.

Comment by Ahmed

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:29:46 EDT

MAPAD, ou said "Islam is the most successful empire of all time"... yet Christinaity is still the world's greatest religion...and the American Empire has resulted in more deaths per year than the "Islamic Empire" Nice scaremongering and manipulation of facts, MAPAD!

Comment by MAPAD

Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:48:33 EDT

Islam is the most successful empire of all time. 1400 years and over 50 countries and still growing strong. European colonialism has NOTHING on Islam. Current American imperialism is NOTHING compared to Islam. Remember kids, Islam is the fastest growing 'religion' in the world! Compare the average Islamic country with America. Who do YOU want to win the war between Islam and America?

Comment by Ahmed

Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:43 EDT

Sujai, You gave a very good response to Dileep, despite being a Hindu. Yes, there was colonisation done by muslims, of which there is no doubt. But if the author of this article thinks that it was a worse colonisation than what the West did, I do not know what planet he is living on. Also, will he also accept that there was colonisation done by Hindus too? Not to the extent that the muslims did, but it happened nontheless. Will he also accept that his forefathers might have been colonised into following Hinduism? And that he has no knowledge of his past culture?

Comment by aarian

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:51:44 EDT

o comeon why dont you think you can change someone's religion by critisizing and without knowing it. What was the biggest threat for the world before islam? Was IRA stands for the whole terror from christianity? Are all the hindus are terorist because of brutal philosophy of shiv sena or BJP..? this is really bad when people like you get conquered by popular emotions? Come out of Fox television fobia and try to help the straggling people all around the world, regardless of their religion. We all have to think and act accordingly and it should not, definately not o the view of someone else.

Comment by allat

Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:14:04 EDT

Well, sir, *Paganism is back! In the last few months, I've been thinking, what the heck (!) is so superior about monotheism? Simply because they force it on others. Simply because they say so! Read Read Mayan Elders - read Hopi Elders. Read shaman mena and wolen conducting Inipi Ceremonies. And Africans searching for Shaman Elders to heal them from AIDS - and them being healed. Read about the many branches of Paganistic revivals - Wican and Goddess - Odinic ceremonies. In fact, Goddess Religion never died in East Europeans countries - and there is a great revival there and also in Germany. Because the younger generations are seeing that christianity (with a small "c") - was imposed on them - it is NOT their own religion. Neither is it dead in Egypt - because the people called "fallahin" (a term of contempt by the arab conquerors) http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/peoples-of-egypt.html are the true ancient Egyptians - NOT the christian copts We're all searching for our roots. Paganism is another word for polytheism - which recognizes a Great Mind aka - and recognizes the light of this Creator in all things. NOT worshipping, but recognizing it in stones, clay, trees, and the Mother Earth. In fact, science/physics is now able to see through special telescopes that all matter gives off light. So, we are back to the beginning, eh? Could it be that the idea of the one god was turned around? Could it be that it is reall that, EVERYTHING IS T H E ONE GOD !?!

Comment by Sri

Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:36:36 EDT

Juan The first gentleman to comment is an absolute idiot HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............!!!! Let's see why... Sujai says >>I don't think (most) 'intellectuals' justify the Islamic terror. At the most, they try to find the reasons for the frustrations of the people which is vented out in the forms of terror.. I think I must look up the definition of the word "justification"... er..um..the dictionary says "explanation for something"......never mind... Now he says >> The present day problems of Islamic world is NOT the result of the 'long and political oppression' during 'colonial period'. Present day problems of the ISLAMIC world??? Terror is their problem?? Brother,are you OK?? Now Dilip Yogi says something which is blindly objected to by our Islam-lover friend >>At least as far as the non Arabs conquered by Islam are concerned, for them Islam was not just a submission to Allah, it was a submission to Arab language, Arab culture and Arab tradition and a submission to fight for the Arab cause, Arab superiority and Arab Imperialism. Since a mere glance is enough for Sujai,let me do some "mere glancing" at today's Mohammedans 1.Why do they kneel toward Arabia when they pray? 2.Why are they prohibited from answering nature's call while facing Arabia? 3.Why is a dead Mohammedan buried in the direction of Arabia? 4.Why Haj only to Arabia? Sujai,you're defending the indefensible..... someguy >> Wishful thinking by Arun. The fact is, if the Muslims had so desired, not a single hindu would have survived. it simply wasn't on their agenda. Not on their agenda....hmmm.. I guess they came for sightseeing...

Comment by Juan

Wed, 14 Mar 2007 05:12:50 EDT

Hello, I am from Latin America and I stumbled upon this brilliant article. The first gentleman to comment is an absolute idiot. Latin American culture, despite the language and religion, is not the same as Spanish or Portuguese. Not even remotely. We have maintained a distinc indegenous culture where as almost all Islamic states have adopted an Arab culture (in Islam, culture is religion, so they are interchangable). In fact, a significant number of Latin Americans spoke an indigenous language up until modern times. It is clear that you are an Arab apologist who has been so blinded by Islam you don't even know who you really are anymore (at least not culturaly).

Comment by tomasz

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:15:31 EST

Tarikur, You are deceiving yourself. Whether it's christianity or islam, it is the religion of one's overlord and, by embracing it so blindly and accusing others of islamophobia, you are infact saying that the traditions of your own people are inferior and you are doing the work of those who belive that your ways are to be extinguised while the glories of islam are to be extolled.

Comment by tomasz

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:46:38 EST

I am from Poland and live in America now. I've discarded Catholicism and am rediscovering pre-christian slavic traditions, which have survived, despite a millenium of catholic brainwashing. Islam is the same as christianity, and both are derived from Judaism, which is the real cause of the fanaticism that posseses monotheisits.

Comment by Jim

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 14:57:53 EST

Although I am no expert and it really isn't to difficult to check, most of the conversion of Europe was peacefull and was mainly due to the folowing reasons. Missionaries. For example St Patrick was credited with converting the whole of Ireland who retain him as there patron Saint. Through the conversion of Kings, where they led others/their people followed. The Emperor of Rome for Example and the Irish King(Sorry forgot the name). Christianity preached the eternal soul which had great appeal as it was absent in a lot of Pagan religions. This is not to exonerate churches as there have been nasty incidents in the past. But overall these have been exceptions rather than the rule. Oh and im a white English Atheist. Regards.

Comment by sarfraz

Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:47:30 EST

lets see if you have the courage to post this. Islam is a terrorist religion? Tell that to the muslims of gujrat, tell that to the muslims of bosnia, tell that to the muslims of modern day Iraq that in fact it is they who are the aggressors even when defending themselves.

Comment by Dileep Yogi

Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:35:18 EST

Sujai, I would like to make it very clear that I was making a comparison study between the nature of western colonialism and that of Islam. The conclusion of my study is that if west was bad then Islam was/is worst and I hope readers got it right. Thaks, Dileep.

Comment by Sujai

Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:41:39 EST

Dileep: To put comments in italics, add < i > at the beginning of the sentence and add < / i > at the end of the sentence (WITHOUT spaces).

Comment by Sujai

Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:32:41 EST

Dileep Yogi: When I said that you exonerated Christianity, I was referring to subsequent events after the initial conversion of Europe to Christianity, like in South America, Africa, and Asia. These conversions were contemporaneous to Islamic conversions. By talking only about overthrow of paganism in Europe, you show Islam as the only culprit in the subsequent periods- which is not the case.

Comment by Dileep Yogi

Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:18:53 EST

Let me quote form my own article: "Admittedly, paganism in Europe was heavily struck down by Christianity from the very day that Emperor Constantine the great decriminalized that religion in his portion of the empire in CE 313 and later in the entire Rome that he reunified in CE 324, the empire that had been partitioned by Diocletian, his predecessor. Pagans were subject to strong persecution, pagan temples were either destroyed or were converted to Christian churches, Pagan books and literature were burned. The destruction of this European or classic Paganism was imminent as the imposition of Christianity over Europe was very rapid given its support from the successive rulers and was finished by the time of Emperor Justinian-I. Historians may go ahead with their debate on the intensity of the influence of paganism on Christianity, as argued by Edward Gibbon, but the destruction of European paganism as a religion and a culture was almost total." I dont understand where I have exonerated Christianity. By the by I dony know how put comments in italics, anyone please let me know.

Comment by beepbeepitsme

Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:58:17 EST

Both islam and christianity are colonizers. They both fight over which one has the true word of "the invisible egg." The Holy Invisible Egg http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/2007/01/holy-invisible-egg.html