The Islamic Insurgency In Thailand

Very well writen piece, I most of the times I do enjoy and shae some of your views and out look on few problamatic issues that suround us.

Shukran,

Abdallah

alamgir:

you wrote: Another factor the experts ignore is that a number of secessionist campaigns by various ethnic and religious groups have been solved over the recent decades. The insurgency by the Sikh people for independence from India is one such example.

can you kindly elaborate:

1: who are these "experts"?

2: name five ethnic and five religious groups whose sessionist campaigns have been resolved in 'recent' decades

Quote: "who are these "experts"?"

Temporal, have you read my article? I refered to a conference in Singapore, where all the big-shots studying Thai insurgency assembled and gave their opinion which I have summed up. I have also cited about the academicians in Bankok, who have been naively blaming previous Government of Takhsin for the troubles there.

Have you heard the name of Rohan Gunaratna, the number one Islamic terrorism expert in the World. He is being called by white house frequently have advises on tackling terrorism Asia.

Quote: "name five ethnic and five religious groups whose sessionist campaigns have been resolved in 'recent' decades"

Temporal, you are asking for 5 religious and 5 ethnic campaign being solved. I probably don't know that that many secessionist campiagns (10 in all) if at all exist(ed) in Asia and North America, the regions I have been following. Yet apart from Punjab, the ethnic insurgency in Tibet and Souther Bangladesh (latter fuled by massive injustice tho) are dead as dodo. Ulfa campign is dying off, the Sikkim problem probably. In North America, the Quebec secessionist campaign for dead deep in the sea.

The deadliest non-Muslim insurgency is the Tamil tigers. I am hoping that that one is going to end before any other Islamic campaign in non-Muslim countries ends.

alamgir:


I refered to a conference in Singapore, where all the big-shots studying Thai insurgency assembled and gave their opinion which I have summed up.

alright, no names?

but seriously a link should have sufficed:)

Have you heard the name of Rohan Gunaratna, the number one Islamic terrorism expert in the World.

i know of more than a billion experts in islamic terrorism including scores here on DC:)

read this quote:

Ever since the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States, the "terrorist expert" has become a ubiquitous presence in the international media. Various academics and authors have risen to prominence on the basis of their alleged high-level intelligence connections and access to information about the plans and activities of terrorist organisations.

One of these is Dr. Rohan Gunaratna, routinely described as a "terrorist expert" and "leading authority" on Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism. He has been interviewed and quoted by media outlets around Southeast Asia.

But a review of his background and credentials raises significant questions about his reliability and "expertise".

Temporal, during my close following of and association with Desicritics for 2 weeks, I have already decided not to engage in debate with 2 persons - one being yourself and another also probably sits in the editorial, like you.

Yet, I responded to make clear that my facts are there. Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies (IDSS, Singapore) remains number one institute researching on these issues. look at their publications and compare with others in the region. Rohan is the head of that Insititute. His colleague Dr Goerge Harrison and their collaborators from Scotland are recognized best experts in Thai insurgency in the Academia. Rohan's "Inside al-Qaeda" was one of the top sellers on its kind. They are surely not experts...

This is the last with you on this thread.

alamgir:

thank you for taking the time out of what must be your busy schedule to respond

you wrote:

Have you heard the name of Rohan Gunaratna, the number one Islamic terrorism expert in the World.

and


Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies (IDSS, Singapore) remains number one institute researching on these issues. look at their publications and compare with others in the region. Rohan is the head of that Insititute.


let us see how others see this uncle-abdul...er temple drum

exhibit A

Temple Drum of terrorism industry?

On Rohan Gunaratna: the 'Temple Drum' of Terrorism Industry

by Sachi Sri Kantha

Introductory Note by Sri Kantha

The phrase 'Temple drum' (the English translation of a spicy colloquial phrase Kovil Melam in Eelam Tamil lingo) loses much in translation, unless one bothers to fathom the derisive bite it carries in the Tamil language. Kovil Melam refers to an inferior quality item of local origin - regularly seen ad nauseam, in contrast to a superior quality performer, invited specially as a guest for the occasion. The phrase originated in the realm of men musicians and women dancers of a voluptious variety, who provided daily service to the local temples. On festive occasions, the audience thronged the festival grounds in anticipation to listen to specially invited ranking artistes from Southern India, and they would be irritated and least interested in listening and observing their own 'Temple Drums'.

In the international world of Intelligence analysts, Sri Lanka-born slick performer Rohan Gunaratna had transformed into the 'Temple Drum' of Terrorism Industry. Until recently, he had been a staple contributor to the parochial press in Colombo (the Island newspaper) and Chennai (the Frontline magazine) spewing his intelligence on LTTE activities like a camel which spits when it is irritated. Thus it is heartening to see that in a few cities, investigative journalists have begun to size up the quality of 'intelligence' delivered by Gunaratna. The camouflage and cloak of this slick artist had been scruitinised, and Gary Hughes had produced an expose for the Melbourne Age newspaper on July 20th.

One should give the devil his due. The expose by Gary Hughes reveals that Gunaratna has some peculiar talent for (a) social climbing, (b) academic imposturing, (c) name dropping and (d) vita forgery, by puffing his vita with non-existing positions. To appreciate the expose of Gary Hughes, it would be helpful if one first reads how the Temple Drum of Terrorism Industry paraded himself as the Emperor of the Terrorism Analyst.

a few more exhibits to nail his place as the numero uno will follow shortly...time permitting

Just one last line: I just don't understand what is the "point" you want ot drive home. Give me a name of experts who have better understanding of this conflict. I hope your "Sachi Sri Kantha" was one but I didn't see anything in his publications.

Anyway, you want to tell us that these experts, I have mentioned, are nuts. So you agree with my analysis that it is an Islamic onslaught going on in Thailand and those guys are truly idoits. Good to see a second person, after Abdallah agreeing to my point of view.

Alamgir, I don't agree with the essentialism that runs through your perspective of Islam and conflicts where the religion plays a role. I don't think any identity can be reduced only to religion since collective and individual identitities are formed on the matices of gender, race, ethnicity, class, etc. And these are constantly shifting and negotiating the boundaries. To make Islam the only crucible of individual and collective identities is not particularly useful or accurate.

On the other hand, your articles do bring a different viewpoint to the debates on Islam and violence and are thus very valuable.

Temporal, I have no idea who Sri Kantha is but Rohan Gunaratna is one of the world's leading terrorism experts. His primary empirical work came from the Sri Lankan situation and the Tamil Tigers.

His extension of his ideas to Islamist terrorism especially in the Middle East is highly contested by various others who feel that his empirical knowledge does not match up to his reputation. However, his prodigous output of researched articles and books does grant him the status of "a leading expert" on the topic.

I realise that DC is a forum for debate but I am a bit revolted by the insta-cut-and-paste phenomenon that seems to dog virtual discussions here. There is ample data on the internet, much of it suspect, on pretty much anyone and any topic. However indiscriminate use of it doesn't help a discussion, which hopefully is not a case of scoring points but intended to learn (its not the case, I realise, by evidence on other threads).

After all, we could argue Alamgir's point from the other side too, and use Tariq Ramadan as the leading expert on "modern" Islam. And Ramadan is probably easier to trash than Gunaratna. Simply discarding experts for ideological reasons is hardly the logical way to proceed.

Anamika:

you have said it well:

Alamgir, I don't agree with the essentialism that runs through your perspective of Islam and conflicts where the religion plays a role. I don't think any identity can be reduced only to religion since collective and individual identitities are formed on the matices of gender, race, ethnicity, class, etc. And these are constantly shifting and negotiating the boundaries. To make Islam the only crucible of individual and collective identities is not particularly useful or accurate.

perhaps it maybe obvious to you by now that am very leery of folks who view everything from a single lens, a single milepost, a single yardstick!... and then merrily paint everything in broad strokes


life is not so simple ...nor are we simpletons

Rohan Gunaratna is one of the world's leading terrorism experts.

obviously we can disagree...let me put on some more exhibits on him...he comes in as an uncle-abdul... a smart person who knows what the west would like to hear...and is overtly obliging...we should make a distinction between scholars and pseudo experts

i understand your distaste of cut n paste jobs...but i have to finish this rebuttal in a satisfactory manner for the intelligent readers here to make up their own minds...

alamgir:

thank you for taking the time out of what must be your busy schedule to respond

you wrote:

Have you heard the name of Rohan Gunaratna, the number one Islamic terrorism expert in the World.

and

Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies (IDSS, Singapore) remains number one institute researching on these issues. look at their publications and compare with others in the region. Rohan is the head of that Insititute.

let us see how others see this uncle-abdul...er temple drum

exhibit B

Terrorism Expertise of Rohan Gunaratna Questioned- David Small

excerpts:

Gunaratna is a self-styled expert on Islamic groups and terrorism. He is still being described as "the former principle (sic) investigator for the United Nations Terrorism Prevention branch" [Sunday Star-Times. 15 August 2004] although Australian journalists have established that no such post has ever existed.


Gunaratna's claim that Hambali, said to be the commander of Jemaah Islamiah the group behind the Bali bombings, had visited Australia a dozen times was refuted by Australian Attorney-General DarylWilliams who said there was no evidence of him ever visiting Australia.


In March 2003, Gunaranta claimed (without producing evidence) that Australian Gunantanamo Bay prisoner, David Hicks, was "not a member of al-Quaeda" and "never intended to attack a civilian target". In July, after the US announced Hicks would be tried as a terrorist, again without evidence, Gunaratna alleged that Hicks had undergone "more advanced and more specialised training" with al-Quaeda. "A person does not receive that level of training unless both he and his trainers had some special plans for him".


The British publisher of Gunaratna's book, Inside al-Quaeda, took the extraordinary step of issuing a disclaimer as a "Publisher's note" advising the reader to treat the book's contents as mere "suggestions".

alamgir:

#5: This is the last with you on this thread.

and

# 7: Just one last line:


it is alright to change one's mind:)

but

what is not alright is to resort to innuendoes such as:

... So you agree with my analysis...

as i mentioned in my very first communication with you, you continue to mix truths and untruths hoping the readers are gullible enough to fall for it :)

remember what i wrote?

#2
temporal
URL
November 16, 2006
06:25 PM
alamgir:

there is a lot of truth here mixed with lots more untruths...reminds me of gen zina-ul-haq's quote from 60 minutes:

take a lot of hotch-potch and mix it with more hotch-potch and it wil remain hotch-potch

good luck with deconstructing cobwebs in your mind

peace!

:)

Thank you Anamika, It is OK to disagree. However, some of the folks here are just to jot in anything without seeking to reach a fruitful end. It is naive to trash Rohan just on the basis of a few articles written by some folks which has never been debated. A person of his towering reputation are should normally have load of critical materials against him.

About Ramadan, you also take a similar stand here like temporal. He is definitely a greater figure in his own discipline who was voted one amongst the top 100 thinkers of the world in 2004. He is the heroes of intelelctuals (left/liberal/humnists) of the West. He is being seen as a savior for the West by many including EU and UK. Your saying that you can just trash him away is equally naive. He could be trashed in an standard rational debate but not on the ideology he is an expert on.

Anyway, I started working on a comprehensive article on Ramadan but then I stopped early. I bought a few books on his heroes Ibn Khaldun and Imam Ghazali. I want to finish reading them first before I get back to finish the article.

alamgir:

It is naive to trash Rohan just on the basis of a few articles written by some folks which has never been debated. A person of his towering reputation are should normally have load of critical materials against him.

:)

thanks you for this brilliant interpretation

if a person has towering reputation then he or she would have many detratctors (how many is many?) not just a few!

what i have shown here to enhance his towering reputation took a few minutes only...

the simple ground reality is that the media needs uncle-abduls...there aren't enough of them around

*****

here is another post about the towering genius;)

*****


Whenever a comment has been needed about al-Qaeda or terrorism, Rohan Gunaratna has been there to supply it. Who is he? Gary Hughes reports in the Age.


Gunaratna, 42, had ridden a wave of success driven by the basic laws of supply and demand - there were not enough experts to meet the demand from the media and publishers for intelligence analysts able to provide a catchy quote or headline. And Gunaratna appeared happy to break the mould of the public's traditional idea of an academic analyst, making at times startling claims based on what he said were his own intelligence "sources" and criticising governments - including Canberra - for not doing enough and being too concerned about civil liberties.


Also under scrutiny are the financial links between analysts who highlight the dangers posed by terrorists and private corporations that stand to make money from an increased atmosphere of fear.


Members of Australia's intelligence community, and in particular ASIO, are known to be dismissive of many of Gunaratna's more sensational statements, such as claims that alleged military chief of the Jemaah Islamiyah network and senior al-Qaeda member Hambali had regularly visited Australia.

In Britain, The Observer newspaper's home affairs editor and long-time writer on Islamic terrorist groups, Martin Bright, describes Gunaratna as "the least reliable of the experts on bin Laden". He says Gunaratna is often used by the British authorities as an expert witness in the prosecution of Islamist terror suspects because they can rely on him to be apocalyptic.

In Australia, journalist and commentator on intelligence issues Brian Toohey is one of the few to have openly questioned Gunaratna's credentials, describing him as a "self-proclaimed expert" and dismissing some of his claims as "plain silly". He uses as an example a warning by Gunaratna published in November 2001 in the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council Review that terrorist groups might try to influence Australian politicians by rallying "10,000 or 20,000 votes" in their electorates.


REALITY CHECK

The claim: In his book Inside al-Qaeda and in several interviews, Rohan Gunaratna gives graphic details of how terrorists planned to hijack a British Airways jet at London's Heathrow Airport on September 11, 2001, and fly it into the British Houses of Parliament. The plot was foiled when aircraft in Britain were grounded immediately after the attack on New York's twin towers. The source for the information was Indian intelligence interrogations of Mohammed Afroz, a 25-year-old Muslim and suspected member of al-Qaeda, arrested in Mumbai on October 3, 2001. Afroz told interrogators he had been to flying schools in Victoria and Britain and also planned to fly a plane into Melbourne's Rialto Towers.

The reality: Afroz was released by an Indian court on indefinite bail in April, 2001 after Indian police failed to bring charges. As part of the investigation, Indian intelligence agents flew to Australia in February 2001 to check out his claims. It was reported after his release that New Delhi police believed Mumbai police made up the sensational claims allegedly made by Afroz. ASIO said in its 2002 annual report that none of the allegations made by Afroz that related to Australia could be corroborated and they were assessed "to be lacking in credibility".

The claim: Hambali, the operation commander of the terrorist group behind the Bali bombings, Jemaah Islamiah, and other leaders had visited Australia a dozen times, according to the Australia edition of Rohan Gunaratna's Inside al-Qaeda.

The reality: Attorney-General Daryl Williams said checks within Australia and overseas had failed to find any record of Hambali having travelled to Australia "under his own name or any known aliases".