Is Islam a Violent Religion?

Sujai: You are absolutely correct when you say that:

Looking for answers in the nature of its founder, its religious text and nature of its history is futile and completely useless.

I wonder if you read my post that makes the exact same point.

But apart from that one thing, your post is a long litany of senseless red herrings and straw men (if that seems like a phrase that I've started to use awfully lot in my comments it is because all these so called "pro-Islamist" posts make awfully similar arguments).

The more I read these kind of posts from so called moderate Muslims, the more I am convinced that it is not really a "few violent, misguided men" who are giving Islam a bad name. It is the so called moderates like you who try to justify these acts who are the real enablers of those "few misguided ones".

I can do a point by point rebuttal of your entire post, but it is so absurd really that I don't even feel like doing it because I cannot see people like you who are so loathe to any kind of introspection being able to indulge in any kind of intellectual debate.

But even amongst all the absurdities in this post, there is one that simply stands out for its sheer audacity:

"Only when this Rest of the World wakes up to admit it and take measures to correct itself, shall we see Islamic world take a step back and be at peace with itself and the Rest of the World.""


That's some threat to make. So, Sujai, exactly what measures are you proposing here?

Vikas, the measure will be to change nothing, while finding some new "flaw" among non-Muslims to rail against.

@Vikas:
You asked:
"So, Sujai, exactly what measures are you proposing here?"

1. Give Palestine its nationhood.
2. Give Kashmir its independence.
3. Give Chechnya its independence.
4. Stop meddling in Middle East and allow their own forms of governments. Don't topple their governments.
5. Don't use Muslim nations as your battleground to wage your ideological wars.
6. Let them control their natural resources.

In fact, I read your post. I do not agree with your explanation and reasoning.

When I read your post, EVEN my sentiments were:
"I can do a point by point rebuttal of your entire post, but it is so absurd really that I don't even feel like doing it because I cannot see people like you who are so loathe to any kind of introspection being able to indulge in any kind of intellectual debate."

Hence, I did not post a comment. Now, I hope you understand why. If I disagree, I can be mature in dealing with that.

Ah, one more thing, if you continue to be demeaning in your comments, do not expect a reply from me.

1. Give Palestine its nationhood.

Where will the Jews live? The Palestinian Govt of Hamas has said that every square inch of Israel is to be returned to Palestinians, and that there should be no Israel left at all.

2. Give Kashmir its independence.

"What's mine is mine, what's yours we share" eh?
Where Muslims are in the majority, a separate Islamic state has to be formed for full Muslim control. But where Muslims are in the minority, then it has to be a multi-ethnic secular state?
Selective liberalism isn't liberalism at all.

3. Give Chechnya its independence.

How come Chechen independence wasn't campaigned for by the Left when there was a communist govt in Moscow? You've had 80 years in which you could have mentioned Chechen independence, and suddenly you're campaigning for it now? And what else will you later "remember to add" to list of demands? Dagestan? Ingushetia?

4. Stop meddling in Middle East and allow their own forms of governments. Don't topple their governments.
5. Don't use Muslim nations as your battleground to wage your ideological wars.
6. Let them control their natural resources.

Is it appropriate for India to be used as a battleground for Muslims to wage their ideological wars?
Why are Leftists joining hands with Europeans who constantly bash Russia and want to control its oil resources as if those were their own?
Why do Muslims continue to flock to Western countries like a mecca, if they are opposed to the politics of those countries?

Ah, one more thing, if you continue to be demeaning in your comments, do not expect a reply from me.

Don't worry, here at DesiCensors.com they're much more interested in censoring viewpoints that disagree with theirs and yours.

Sujai You forgot a couple more man:
1. Return Spain to Muslims (Shia or Sunni?)
2. Declare North Africa an Arab region and remove African tribes from there
3. Stop publishing newspapers, writing books or performing Operas
4. Give Muslims the freedom to practice their religion any which way they want to where they are in minority, but don't you dare expect reciprocation in Muslim majority countries

Oh and one more....could you please bend over so that we can....ahem!

@Sanjay, you ask:
"Is it appropriate for India to be used as a battleground for Muslims to wage their ideological wars?"

Nope. Not at all. I don't want my country to be used by any Muslim (or for that matter any Hindu) for their ideological war. Hence, a weak attempt to save it from a future conflict.

And what ideological war are Hindus waging?

Are you willing to acknowledge that India has national interests, such as territorial and security interests?

Do you feel that standing up for territorial interests amounts to 'chauvinism'?

Which Indian interest are you claiming to represent?
The Indians=Hitler interest lobby?

The world is losing little in this so called clash of civilisations. Neither do the world feels threatened about terrorism (in spite of the deliberate propaganda in media).

Earlier, there used to be wars where millions used to die. Today, the casualities due to terrorism are not even 1% of those deaths. Much more people die of road accidents than terrorism.

So, most probably, the non-islamic nations just do not give a damn about these bomb blasts etc (in spite of their rants).

So, Western Countries, India, China or Japan are not really losing out in this whole battle. Their economies are doing great. Of course, once in a while a hundred of two hundred innocent people are getting killed. But, much more people are dying in Islamic nations due to terrorism.


The mileage extracted out of the incidents of terror by western countries, India, china or Russia are enoromous. On the other hand, the lose (financial or otherwise) for Islamic nations is huge.

Western powers are sitting in the middle of Arab land and exploiting them in every possible manner. India and China will look other way with enough excuses.

I guess, the whole "Pope's statement episode" or "Danish Cartoon" episode are deliberate crafted to provoke the Islamic populations and keep the angry/"getting hurt" side of Islam on public memory in whole world.

Today, Christianity, Buddhism or Hinduism (whether they are peaceful or violent) are not under any pressure. But Islam is under pressure. And this pressure is intensifying from all directions. Apart from this external pressure, there is internal strife in Pakistan, in Iraq and in Saudi Arabia.

Anger and hurt achieve nothing. They just compound the misery. If you can provoke someone and make him/her angry, it easy to score a win.

In short, the economic, societal losses for non-islamic societies from all these issues is miniscule compared to the losses that Islamic socities have to suffer. Now, the question is how Islamic societies can cut down the losses in the first place and not how other societies can change. Because, in reality (if you check the statistics) the other societies have little to lose and hence why will they give a damn about "changing themselves".

The best way to change the world is to change one's self "without compromising" diginity, beliefs and your own interest.

That can be bit tough. But, its worth attempting it (for every individual and for every society and civilisations).

Friend, your Muslim talking points are inaccurate. Read any history book and you will see the baselessness of your accusations against other religions. Have people misused Christianity for their personal gain? Absolutely. Is their behavior condoned by either Jesus or the Apostles? Absolutely not.

That is the difference. Mohammed condoned violence. Jesus did not. Mohammed condoned rape. Jesus did not. Mohammed encouraged conversion by the sword. Jesus encouraged conversion by love, even for those who would destroy you. Mohammed died. Jesus died and rose again after paying the price for your sins. Mohammed offers you no grace. Jesus offers you complete grace because of His love for you. Pray to God for enlightenment. Pray to God to reveal who Jesus was and is. Pray for salvation. You will receive it.

Love and blessings,
Fred

islam

"The Bible, which itself has undergone many changes..."

Explain what you mean by this premise? If your premise was that the Bible never changed, how would that affect your argument?

Forget it. As I re-read your article it occurred to me that you don't know what you are talking about. Its time to do some homework for you.

I,m trying to locate since 40 years to find the bible by Jesus Christ in Aramic language of the time not by so called Saints i.e. Mark, John, Paul, Luke etc etc.

Now, it will be a "logical, rational" fight between two sets of "reductionistic fools".

So the gentleman has come up with readymade solutions on comments 3. I do not know how ridiculous you are as a person "Sujai" {i hope this is not seen as a personal attack} but those points will shock the most hardcore mullah-marx brotherhood.

I know why you have provided those "solutions" of yours. For a person banging away on his keyboard, using his anonymity, everything is fair game. You can also propose giving away parts of Bengal, Assam, UP, Bihar as it gets infected by islam in the due course. Your proposals should maybe end at giving up entire parts of india to the islamists to buy peace. Isn't it "Sujai" {aka mohammad underground sheikh}.

Either you are a political innocent trying to be more than you can be {write on movies, more your style}. Or as i have stated earlier, a masquerade. {which is perhaps the best way to understand your "solutions" on comment 3}.

And please spare enflaming us all on auspicious days. Evil was banished today by Ma Durga and some %*&^%$#@! decides to enflame us with his nonsense.

I hope the overalert chaps at desicensors do not see this as a personal attack against anyone. Most of my comments have vanished, replaced by a very pithy "no personal attacks" in its place. It makes me wonder why someone, who can write the most atrocious nonsense as an "opinion piece" is allowed and when you frankly comment on what you think, your comments vanish. In this age, keyboards are being used as weapons by some, and in an open platform, let there be an honest exhange, abuses et all. This is no pussyland.

Thanks and wishing all you guys great Dushera.

First, the old, "unless you're perfect, don't judge me" line is tired and unconvicing. An inability or unwillingness to hold others to account is a basic element of what makes society and civilization work.

A second problem here is that Sujai fails to get past the historical blame game. You Christians did this, you Muslims did that... most interreligious violence, like most war, has been about politics, not religion. In fact, the most horrendous violence inhistory has consistently come out of atheist/secular states. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao...these are histories killers. Even secular France, during the French Revolution slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Catholics because they were Catholic. Ever heard of the Committee of Public Safety? Probably not, but have you heard of the Inquisition? Of course. People love to remember bad things done in the name of religion. We love to cry "hypocrite!" We drag down religion because we fear it. We fear it because, on some level, we know we need it. And we don;t like to face the idea that maybe we need to change the way we live.

So people haul out the Crusades so they don't feel bad about ignoring the Christian call to love our neighbors at all costs. And the bash the Koran and paint all Muslims with the brush of terrorism so that they can ignore the fact that we should, in fact, submit to God.

And the best most people can come up with is this:

"Only when this Rest of the World wakes up to admit it and take measures to correct itself shall we see Islamic world take a step back and be at peace with itself and the Rest of the World."

I say foofoo. The Muslim world needs to tell the West, "Abortion, pornography, laziness, etc. these are corrupting you." And the West has to say, "Islam, you need to allow religious freedom in your countries and unify against religious violence, not because you invented it, or have a monopoly on it, but because right now it is a challenge you must face."

Unless we are able to treat each other like adults and offer constructive criticisms without falling into meaningless squabbles about who did what to whom 600 years ago everyone is going to be in real trouble.

Superb Article...

Kudos to Sujai...you have presented the clear image of Today's world ...