Comedy Track in South Indian Films

Nice read there.. Although I too think in Telugu cinema, Sunil has lot more talent to be exploited after brahmanandam(Hit me hard yaar!!)

Sarav,
Thank you!
Sunil's big break has come with Andala Ramudu, I think. But comedy actors acting like sane, sensible human beings and not first class dolts, well, that day is a long way off, I think!

Good one. Not all comedians are well talented. Some work hard to become a comedian and some are born talents.
When you compare with 60s-80s comedy, it was damn good. But few comedians dialogue was beyond the damage where some ppl' liked it but you cannot enjoy as a family. As you said, vivek is different by bringing social awreness thru' his dialogues and its good. How many ppl think for the better??

Pria,
thank u for ur comment.
Agree with you abt the 60-80's comedy being really good. But one can't help but wonder about the lack of quality in today's movies and whose fault is that - the director, producer, the comedian or the screenplay writer - or is it because of us, the audience?

Funny, I thought I left a comment here, which, to the best of my knowledge, abided by your comment policy. I just thought that perhaps you were a little too quick to put down G&S pair.
You are saying I ought not disagree with what you have written?

some one said that comedy and tragedy are two sides of the same coin.

it's tragic to see the state of comedy.

i guess it takes lot more to be comic. there is this issue of timing which often is missed.

and good comedy needs good intelligence. what often passes off as comedy is tragically rubbish.

i used to be pissed off with comedy tracks and song/dance. but i came to live with it as an 'idiom' of indian creative expression.

vidooshaka has been there as part of our history and therefore our sensibilities. any drama had song and dance. and often stories were told in songs, that probably is Indian USP in telling a story on film:)

the challenge for us is to co-exist peacefully with linear story-telling of the west and with the multi-nested story-loops that indians use ;)

Ravages,
I thought I saw your comment re Goundamani and Senthil in my email box but DC's resident ghost seems to have gobbled it up! Disagree with me all you want, mate - it would be rather one-dimensional if everyone agreed with me. However, I disagree with you re G&S too. There was nothing entertaining about their antics and where was the fun in seeing G plant a kick in S's backside in every single movie? Someone else had asked if I had seen Karakattakkaran - yes, I have. The vazhaipazham joke is one of the oldest in Tam film history. But one decent joke doesn't a trend make!

Balaji,
Brilliant summary! As long as East meets West doesn't translate to a 'Water', I'm happy!

Now tell me this article wasn't motivated by my posting that video.

You have to admit, that li'l Macaca could move -- I'd like to see Gary Coleman or Webster try that. Or even that li'l elf from Bad Santa.

Now I know where Allie McBeal got the idea for the Dancing Baby from. ;P

Dear DC's resident ghost: Will you let this comment pass through? Please! DesiGirl actually responded to my comment, very few people do. Please, I would be mighty sad and heartbroken if this comment doesn't get through.
Thank you, in advance.


DesiGirl: Thanks for the reply.
I did find G beating S up funny. Especially when the said beating up came after S pulled the wool over G's eyes.

T&J are another great comedy duo. And you'll always see J beating up T or vice-versa, or both of them employing others to beat the other one.
Beating up people is one of the best ways to make something funny.
3 home alone movies (among others) proves it.

As for Vaazhapazham, I agree it's stinking stale. But, in its day - you couldn't have asked for anything better.
The thing I find fascinating about G&S is that they are able to turn around something potentially weepy into something hilarious.
Take for instance the lottery-ticket-in-barber's-box routine. Give it to the great people who write our soaps, and this would have been turned into a 7 year long weepy thing. But G&S made it into a 10 minute funny sketch, and how? It takes a bit of genius to do that.

Ravages,

Don't you worry, mate - I have put in a good word with the ghost and your comments shall be allowed to go through :)
Hmm, agree with you re: barber routine BUT not with the rest. The G & S routines were a bit too crude for my taste. No worries - we shall agree to disagree on this one!
Thank you for your comments, btw - we love a spirited discussion here (and how!) and most of us do like to respond to our commentators. So pls do continue visiting us and posting your views.
If you want to go further and write for us, then send an email to desicritics at gmail dot com

DesiGirl: Thanks for the good word.
ResGhost: Thanks to you too.

DG: Hmm, yes, let's disagree. As for writing for DC, let me give it a think. Have more than a few things already, and I don't have enough hands for the number of pies around.

Hmmm. My comment was abusive? It was a personal attack? Thank you

G & S were awesome. i dont think the joke was ever about G kicking S on the backside. i cant recall even one movie where the joke was just about that. so its a trivializaion by you.a incorrect one at that. I think G especially was extremely insightful and hilarious. NSK is good becaise of vintage value. I doubt if he could have done what G did in walter or mamanmagal w/o senthil.

sexist statement: girls and G&S dont go well. its just a fact i have reconciled to.

Hawkeye,
I agree with you about G. He rocked in mamanmagal especially the scene where he was caught by Meena's mother and beaten up and Sathyaraj and Manivannan continuing their act.

I dont agree with yourour sexist statement.
Decent people and G&S dont go well.
I will leave definition of decent people to you

No comments were deleted on this thread consciously, it was a technical glitch which is being rectified. For someone, like me, who doesn't speak the language the film is in, it's pretty much a comedy track:) Of course, good film doesn't need comprehension of the language.

Hi.. First time here. Reasonably well-written, but I dont agree to it fully. In fact, 2 months back, I wrote this article in my blog.. pl. check out when u have time. IMHO, we have a long way to go in producing consistently good comedy tracks but recently, the trend has been more than healthy in Tamil cinema atleast.

damilian,

i agree with the decent part :-). its hard to put a finger on it. But G&S are regarded as comedians for the unrefined people. A bourgeoise middle-class kind of prejudice.

i personally find them, especially G's sarcasm - a well thought-out bashing of the system devlivered in a simple way.

It's brilliant to see so many folks discussing Tamil movies this way! Thank you everyone, for your comments.

F e r r a r i
What was that about?

Hawkeye, Damilian and Raju,
Like I told 'Ravages', I think we should agree to disagree. IMHO, G & S comedy was more crass than anything. But of course, there are loads of people out there who would find things I like not upto their taste. So, to each their own.

Raju,
I do agree that the quality is improving. About time too!

Hawkeye,
I loved ur post about Goundamani in Kanni Raasi. Goundamani is my favourite comedian. I dont think anybody can beat his sarcasm. I also like senthil's ingenious questions that end up in G kicking S. Unlike G, S didnt have much success when he went solo.

Some of the G & S comedies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NENeYSdYNTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxy_ZZg0Kjo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2xoX6cbSgY

Desigirl,
Ya everybody has different tastes and opinion. But the point here is that you are branding things bad because you dont like it.

DesiGirl: Surely, you'll have to thank me (heheh and all self-indulgent laughter) for the success of this post. If it ain't for I (and Krithiga who first putted this) who disagreed with ya, the comments wouldn't have flown.

And oh, thanks ResGhost.

So anyway, back to the story. As I was telling a few people the other day, G&S weren't merely crass. They had genius in that they could adapt literally any situation to their advantage and humour.
In many movies, S gets kicked because S pulls the wool over G's eyes. And these pulling the wools were because S was innovative, cunning and opportunistic. Remember that scene (film unsure of) where G is a tea-kadai owner, S is his wife's something. S sells G a dog dressed up as a goat? Or S sells G stolen jewellery? Quite funny, seriously. And because they were clever. One party hoodwinks the other. And when retribution came, it became funnier.

I could possibly name a 1000 (or lesser) films which were funny because of G&S trying to outwit the other. But that isn't going to convince you or anybody else. The point is, they weren't merely indulging in slapstick to play to the gallery.
They were indulging in slapstick (and clever ones, plus slapstick's quite the difficult-est) because they truly understood that misery begets mirth.

As somebody famous said, the children of pain and suffering often provide much joy.
Sherlock Holmes son Wooster is ample evidence.


(There. My PhD thesis on humour done)

And oh, drop the quote-mark around Ravages, please! It's not a bad nick or anything, surely, for you to quote-unquote it.

Can't believe I dropped an apostrophe. Making ammends.

Sherlock Holmes's son Wooster

Ravages,
(see, taken the quotes off - sorry!) Thankee for making this post so popular! Now, if only you could visit my personal blogs and increase their popularity... ;)

Damilan,
Why don't you write an article countering my rant, where you can explain the genius behind G & S's humour? That will be fantastic!

Once again, I stand by my views - and you are free to disagree with me. I 'branded' them as whatever because I found them to be so. I am sure if you don't like something, you won't be waxing eloquent about it either :)

Now, if it was about a certain actor, well...
(eh, Kishore, Suj?) ;)

Oh Ravages, ol' pal, if the mud-slinging starts, then I'll blame ya for the 'popularity' then too!
;)

Welcome, welcome. Bad popularity is good too.

Movies are made to make money and largely depend on the target audience (to be precise - target market). One cannot expect logic in all comedies especially when most of the target audience are illiterate (villages in interior TN and AP).

Am talking about my comment, that was deleted!

Sorry about that, old chap, it was unintentional, and we can post it again on your behalf, if that's fine with you.

Blogeswaran proves the theory that Decent people and G&S dont go well. Blogeswaran stereotypes people in villages and assumes intellect over other people.

Desigirl,
I wud love to take ur offer. But as of now my hands are tied with work now. I wud recommend joining discussion at putvote esp the one by zero. http://www.putvote.com/article/show/20577

deisggirl,

i agree. things in subjective realm are just that. i am not holding that against you. i think hindi movie comedy tracks are completely unfunny and the little that i have seen telugu i think they are slapstic and crass too. it is just that somewhere below i know that not knowing the language deprives me of certain sensibilities native to the language.

in that spirit, i mentioned "i dont think the joke was ever about G kicking S on the backside. i cant recall even one movie where the joke was just about that. " which i felt was outside the sujective realm. this is i say in the spirit of being open-minded and wanting to learn more about the world we live in.

Hawkeye,
Whilst the ass kicking wasn't the sole part of the G & S routine, it was a part of it, nonetheless. Anyways, I think I said I feel that there are many, many good comedy actors out there - but either the director's lack of trust in his abilities in carrying a movie forward without anything bawdy or the comedian's own sense of 'comedy' makes things take a left towards Ick land.

Some of the recent comedy bits I enjoyed were Vivek's - in 'Yedhiri', for example. I think the movie petered out in the second half partly cos Vivek's character was left out. He did a decent job in Minnale too - agree he hit rock bottom a few years back but thankfully, he's picked up and has improved in leaps and bounds.

I also enjoyed the comedy scenes in 'Panchatantiram' - the munnadi, pinnadi one, for a start!

You might not agree with me on any of these - but I guess, to each one, their own eh? :)

Damilan,
Does that make me 'decent' then? :) Maybe it is cos G & S aren't considered 'cool', you think? Whilst I don't say that the villagers have backward taste or anything preposterous like that, if heroes can be categorized as 'urban' heroes (the A center guys) and 'mass' heroes (B and C center ones), I think a similar sort of categorization could be done for the comedians too. What do you think?

Once again, thanks a lot to you all for maintaining a spirited AND clean discussion.

Are North Indian films funny?

Its very unfair to generalise things like theses so easily.. G & S got a little (actually more) repetitive after that banana joke.. They must hav figured out that inducing a situation wherein G can kick S's butt with him screaming "Annae...!!" wud evoke laughter.. but certainly, their attempts in Gentleman? Who forgets 'Dicky-lona'?? i thought tat was funny, even if it was just the same kick in the butt... and wat abt G's "left la poosu, right la poosu.."?? there are lots and lots and lots more i can suggest here..
wat abt vadivelu's "Winner"?? hav u watched his antics in tat?? I still believe Vivek is the best in Tamil.. But that doesnt mean others are fit to be discarded.. no way..
I guess the scenario in telugu is much more better.. Sunil is one of the best.. his trademark smirk certainly evokes smiles.. Still Brahmanandam was gud in "Nuvvu naaku...", even "Athadu", "Pokkiri" and so on...
guess, u cud hav done a balanced take on this one... tat way i wud nt hav commented here...

Mayank,
Am sure the North Indian films are funny, mate but I don't know enough about them to talk about them. Am not saying that I know everything there is to know about South Indian but I watch a whole lot of Tamil movies - while the hindi ones depends on whether I like the lead actor or not :)

Bhuvanesh,
Well, I could have put in the points you have made in your comment and maybe that would have made the article "more balanced" but then, the article won't be about my views, will it? I have written what I felt about the comedy tracks. Like I told Damilan, you could present a more balanced article by putting across your views. The more, the merrier!

ok, I just can't get past the chest of the guy in the black shirt.

Suj,
Oh! *koff* yum ? ;)

What do we mean by South Indian films? Are films made in Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam all grouped under this category? Are South Indian films share similr cultural identities which seperate them from the world of North Indian films? What are North Indian films exactly? Is it Bollywood + Bhojpuri + Punjabi = North Indian films? What about Bengali and Oriya and Assamese films? East Indian films? DesiGirl, perhaps you may have some opinions.

What do we mean by South Indian films? Are films made in Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam all grouped under this category?

Do South Indian films share a similr cultural identity which seperates them from the world of North Indian films?

What are North Indian films exactly? Is it Bollywood + Bhojpuri + Punjabi = North Indian films? What about Bengali and Oriya and Assamese films? Will we lable them as East Indian films?

DesiGirl, perhaps you may have some opinions.

Mayank,

As TN, AP, Karnataka and Kerala are all called the South Indian states, their movie industries are all collectively grouped under 'South Indian film industries'. I don't wanna say Kollywood, Tollywood and Mollywood cos I think it is ridiculous!

Hmm, to illustrate a point about the cultural commonality amongst these regions, I shall tell you the story of kommulu rava naaku. This is a very famous phrase from the Telugu hit movie Bommarillu. Though the lang is not my mother tongue, I had a decent idea of what the director was talking about when I read this phrase in an interview. Coz we have a similar thing in Tamil. (Kommulu or kombu - in tamil - means horns. We generally tease the kids by saying if they bang their heads together, they'd sprout horns.)

Now, pls dont ask me if the same story isnt told across the North, East or West Indian states - I haven't a clue! I am from the South and as such, know only about the South!

Desigirl:
Good one.
You have captured the mood right. The present day comedy has degenerated- is it the producers/directors/actors or is it the audience?

I believe it is both, but I think it is more to do with audience. Such antics bring out laughter from a lot of audience and this seems to run well with the movie-makers who perpetuate the same and degenerate further.

When a good comedy doesn't go well with the audience (or rake in less money) the movie-makers tend to copy the formula that indeed went well with the audience (which became a mega-hit).

Sujai,
Thank you for getting the point I was trying to make - of wondering who's to blame for the degeneration in the quality of our comedy tracks, the director, the artists or us audience. I do agree the major 'blame' rests with the audience but not 100%. Cos I feel that some filmmakers use that excuse to carrying on churning out the old, trite jokes and content as 'the audience likes it'. Not many of them actually take pains to find out if the people would go for something different or not.
What do you say?

Desigirl:
You bring up a point which is far more enquiring than the present discussion. I have been trying to formalize my thoughts on what I call as 'maturity' of certain culture/nation/etc.

Coming back to the discussion-
A movie is a complex assemblage of many elements. In India cinema, a movie can become a hit because of any of the following elements:
Just the songs,
Just the hero/heroine,
Just the director,
Just the comedy,
Just the location (shot in switzerland),
Just the sets and costumes ('Devdas')

There have been certain actors who became famous just because they happen to be in those movies whose songs became mega-hits. They continue to ride the stardom just because of their songs (and not because of their acting).

Such success just-because-of-association is quite rampant in Indian cinema.

A hit movie (which may become hit because of the hero) containing ridiculous comedy may be seen as a success formula just because of association.

There are certain actors who are considered lucky to some directors despite the well-known fact they are lousy actors.

Kind of tough to say what works in this big amalgamation of diverse elements which make Indian cinema and hence these directors do not take chances and instead extend their formula. The prevailing notion is- as long as it is raking the money there is no need to experiment with other kinds.

I am not sure if any movie maker is really trying to see if each of his elements is being liked by his audience or not. As long as the package works, it fine with him.

Even a lousy story with a famous hero is a sure shot formula to success.

sujai

success of films is a complex thing.

often it is context and content. like u said there are many things that audiences relate to in a film - music/songs, acting, story, actors, director etc.

however, often many film makers forget the context - u can see a 'genre' of films in a given time - a slew of them - love themes-of-teens, rebel-stuff, comedies etc., etc.

so context and content in my humble view increase a film's probability of success.

i'd rather adapt thomas kuhn's framework of 'paradigms' which are akin to 'genre' or 'types' which go with the audiences. and all genres or paradigms have limits - when the reach them - the one that finds a new 'genre' or 'paradigm' normally wins.

anyways it is difficut to figure out why films succeed. hence the levels of superstitions in the film industry!

cheers.