Sabarimala Temple to be Purified Because a Woman Entered the Sanctum Sanctorum

kishore just a digression:

had this been written by a meera or sakhshi the von-siffer brigade would have pounced on them all over

evidently, that brigade only attacks people and not the issue.. they never had any valid reason to attack an issue.. :) people is the easy way out...

What is the difference between these people and the Ku Klux Klan :-)

Super-stitious women beating motha-fucking assholes..... enuff bad words for an year

At the risk of being politically incorrect. The temple has its own history, culture, context, tradition etc... so why not just let it be?

If the temple doesn't want women to come for some reason. so be it. religion is not science or logic it is faith, sometimes blind faith.

I think women or champions & sympathisers of womens "causes" should devote more time and energy to worthy causes like making sure girls have access to good education, they are legally protected against crimes like eve-teasing, sexual harassment, sexual assault, domestic violence, dowry harassment etc... rather than getting them entry to some temple in some corner of the Earth.

apollo:

At the risk of being politically incorrect. The temple has its own history, culture, context, tradition etc... so why not just let it be?

If the temple doesn't want women to come for some reason. so be it. religion is not science or logic it is faith, sometimes blind faith.

is this p-i thinking extended to christians, jews, muslims and other faiths also?

Kishore,
Feels like i saw a documentary movie, the article is well written and well supported with facts.
But what she did was wrong. Rules are rules, if there is a rule set by the temple, then it is not to be broken.I completely agree with Apollo on this issue. If she thinks that women have equal rights, let her fight with the temple authorities and make a change. Breaking a rule, is breaking a rule, is breaking a rule :)

temporal, i didn't get u? can u pls elaborate ur question?

Breaking a rule, is breaking a rule, is breaking a rule :)

was the salt satyagraha and the civil disobedience movement illegal as well?

As the write-up of 'About DC' reads(paraphrased)... Writers/contributors need to be Opinionated. Well you got a lot of them in DC, just plain opinionated. Who just blurt out their opinions at the drop of the hat, and leave it to the commenters to add facts and background details, so that the whole truth/picture comes out(hopefully), because the writer's prime focus seems to be just getting first out to the Block, and doing so in an orgasmically gay abandon, this is writing akin to streaking or what?

This temple has evolved certain rules according to the mythology attached to it, and women are not allowed not because they menstruate per se. The deity, Lord Ayyappa, is an eternal bachelor and shuns distractions, thats why girls(in between ages 10 and 50)are not allowed. The legend goes that Goddess Malikappurathamma was enamoured by Lord Ayyappaswami and wanted to marry him, and the lord not wanting to turn her down bluntly agreed for the marriage the day when there won't be a single first-timer devotee(called Kanni Ayyappan, the devotes are also called as Ayyappas). Even the followers are required to abstain from all possible 'maya'(they are supposed to live a simple life(done symbolically- by wearing black dress), no smoke, drinks, sex, non-veg, shave, haircut, etc.) for 42 days before they can set foot on these holy hills. The women devotees(below 10 and above 50 years of age) are called Malikappurams in respect of the lady who still waiting for the marriage with the Lord.

These vows and strict regimes can be seen as the yearly chance for one to be focused, clean and to ruminate over his life, meditate and evolve as a better person. Its another fact that many guys who go there don't do these strictly, but there is a majority(I would like to think) who make use of this regime to evolve as better persons(at least thats the goal of these regimes).

So now with this info, you could still rubbish these practises or respect these as the ones which are held very closely to heart by a lot of devotees spread over Kerala, Tamilnadu, Andhra, Karnataka and even rest of India and all over the globe to a lesser extent. This new controversy could have an angle of subversion, since this is the richest temple in India in terms of revenue(not very sure about Thirupathi temples revenue, but they are No.1&2 in revenues).

Now the question may be- why should ladies be kept away in these modern times, arey yaaron, at least leave this place for men to pray in peace . May be some people here will find a conspiracy theory lurking here- that SIF made these rules(by travelling back in time!), no this just means Men need some space for themselves too, and our ancestors had tactfully programmed these into our rituals. 'Many' of our rituals have a strong reason why they were brought into being, the logic of which may have been forgotten/lost, but many are very beneficial- its when fanatics mutilate these and add wrong interpretations to these thoughts over time , it appears as dogmatic.

I am sure there are a lot of temples which allow only women to enter, so its just that- rituals, lets not be opinionated just for the sake of being opinionated(because DC requires u to be?), because there are a lot of devotees who hold these beliefs very close to their hearts, who will get hurt if we do that blindly. If these beliefs give peace of mind to many, why do u want to simply be slanderous about them.

Since we are on the subject let me also mention that Lord Ayyappa's close friend was supposed to have been a Muslim known as Vavar, and many hindu devotees first go to his Dargah/Mosque enroute to Sabarimala where they are given all privileges of a devotee. I also think there is a temple for Vavar Swami in Sabarimala where all devotees pay their respect. This is just to bring out the noble intentions of these rituals, which were programmed into our psyches so that inner peace is furthered along with religious harmony, even in those ancient times.

I definitely remember those pious and peaceful mornings on which I used to get up and run to the nearby temple, as a child during the 42 days regime before I could set foot on Sabarimala. Those days of abstinence and the bare-footed climb(atleast 5 km I believe) towards Sabarimala are so expectant and rewarding for the devotees, after all its these small pleasures which add up and fill as our short lives.

Hope I could bring some soul into the rituals of this place. Women are not treated as Outcasts here, they are Malikapurams here, as explained above.

Righta:

More or less, i think this action reflects to some (or large?) extent how our society treats women.

Please pardon me from another SIF attack!

Atleast in case of Sabarimala its not discrimination which is keeping fertile women away, its because of the legend of Bachelor Ayyappa. I don't deny that our society had/still do discriminate against women.

Plus SIF is a self-help group of victims, as a group we only try to help fellow victims(attacks are not in the group agenda).

A Related link

Black Magic Law- Poorly drafted bill says experts.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1696524.cms

Excerpt:
MUMBAI: The state's proposed law against blind faith and black magic has plenty of grey areas, feel experts. The Bill, called the "Maharashtra Eradication of Black Magic and Evil Practices Bill", may become an Act in the coming Assembly session but, in the absence of any public debate on its provisions, there is fear and confusion that a law meant to target tantriks may end up putting a curb on people's religious beliefs and practices............

Righta

Yes , they are finally afraid of us. "No please ...(all feminist bugs tell me) am not a feminist...go away." Thats what they tell me these days.

Our mission is rocking and our DDT spray is effective.

anon:
terrorism works... with people like me around :-)

Good and glad you udnerstood

thanks for pardoning me :-)

If you think you are being sarcastic and i am not getting it then wait ...one day it wil be my say and your cry(after your wife files fasel 498 on you and your prents)

Apollo,
>> If the temple doesn't want women to come for some reason. so be it... religion is not science ...sometimes blind faith

u r right.. like sati should still have been continued even though its blind faith...

Minase,
Agree with Lakshmikanth on the rules breaking thing.. further, the point here is not about a woman violating a rule.. but about a temple imposing discriminatory stress based on blind faith...

>> clean and to ruminate over his life, meditate and evolve as a better person.

I know. Everyone who has been to the temple once have become a role model for humanity these days.

>> but there is a majority(I would like to think) who make use of this regime to evolve as better persons

Hmm.. like those guys who smoke and drink on their paada yathra to the temple, huh?

>> I definitely remember those pious and peaceful mornings on which I used to get up and run to the nearby temple, as a child during the 42 days regime before I could set foot on Sabarimala.

Awwww.. Wish everyone who went to Sabarimala temple were like u...

The Greeks, Hindus, Romans, Nordic, Celtic, Egyptian, Arabic, Chinese, and aboriginal Australians all had creation myths recognizing the mysterious and sacred nature of the moon's cycle and menstrual blood-flow.

only fundamentalits says its Unholy.

Her Money power allowed her to touch idol;now Fundamentalist awaken.

@kishore

now read the next paragraph also baby ;). which i wrote.

I think women or champions & sympathisers of womens "causes" should devote more time and energy to worthy causes like making sure girls have access to good education, they are legally protected against crimes like eve-teasing, sexual harassment, sexual assault, domestic violence, dowry harassment etc... rather than getting them entry to some temple in some corner of the Earth.

what the hell is SIF?

Isn't Ayyappa the gay-love child of Vishnu and Shiva?

*rather than getting them entry to some temple in some corner of the Earth.*

Fair enough, Apollo. But then why are you wasting your time writing comments after comments on a *non-issue*.

I think discrimnatory laws and practices should be vehemently challenged be in South Africa (apartheid in past), US (discrimination in past and present), India (caste and sex based). A lot of apartheid numbo jumbo was justified through scriptures (Bible).

Sometime ago, sati was a tradition too.

*Fair enough, Apollo. But then why are you wasting your time writing comments after comments on a *non-issue*.*

@kush

because i don't want the future big mouths of our country (oops!! intellectuals ;)) like urself to waste time on non-issues and instead concentrate ur energies on real issues facing the country.

believe me there is no shortage of real issues in the country. if u don't know or can't think of any then do seek some professional help ;)

Curious: Isn't Ayyappa the gay-love child of Vishnu and Shiva?

Lol, I dont know if theres a myth of union of Vishnu and Siva's powers, but the way you termed it real funny, very innocent :). I can already see both of them on the beaches of Goa...... cool man. Thanks for the madness in the method ;).

Kishore, I also know a lot of people who don't follow their vows strictly, thats why I said that these rituals are a 'chance' or opportunity for them to better themselves.

Some do not see this point and just see this journey as some kinda social obligation or something. But if anyone who follows the vows strictly will get cleansed in some way or the other, even if doesn't realise the noble intent behind doing so- Rituals are more often than not 'Good living for Dummies'. Only when they are adulterated with vested interests they become dogma.

In life everyone is presented with Chances, the way they take it decides the end result- you can't blame the chances for anything, theres only one person to blame and thats yourselves.

You are the weird person I ever seen.

For every incident, there can be thousands or a million interpretations.

The theory that Religion is anti-woman has its origins in west. Indian Macauley's Children have to follow what west says without investigation or verification.

It is very easy to prove religion is anti-women, also anti-men, anti-children and finally anti-everything.

The same say, it is very easy to prove pseudo-liberalism as anti-women, anti-men, anti-society, anti-humanity and anti-everything.

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In fact, you can take anything and everything and can always prove that it is anti-anything and anti-everything.
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This theorem will remain valid till we use our great organ called brain and ride a dumb creature called mind.
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The new pseudo-liberal upper classes only have got right to interprete history(Sati, Oppression etc) and come out with Fatwas about what is right and what is wrong. Because, they know good English, they have got connection to the divine powers which can change and transform the whole civilisation into an utopia/RamaRajya/Jannat.

So many great educated people have used the same mantra over thousand years to create utopia on earth and ended up burning witches. Now, lets listen to the "new clergy" of 21st century.

Lets bow to the urban pseudo-liberal neo-brahmins of 21st Century so that they can put sense of reason, logic and rational thinking into the minds of we the pagans, heathens, aborgins, uncivilised creatures.
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Guys Guys;;

Topic of this forum is

Cute lady entered Temple.
JayaMala and Meera Jasmin

Just a reminder.

Meera Jasmin(a Christian) has been going to temples all this while, only now people(media) saw the time is right to leverage her visitations. News channels need a pin cushion until the next one arrives by DHL, media must be a very pathetic industry to be in....I guess.

By the way Sabarimala has visitors from all religions, moreover one deity there is Vavarswami(A muslim). I see Sabarimala as a well balanced place of worship, may be most of the places of worship did have these secular thoughts when they started out. Lets see the glass as half full......... still.

So DaVinci Code was correct afterall ;)

All popular religions of today are anti-women: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc. Its just that men are powerful in the society today and it is they who get to set the rules. It was no different when the religious texts were written and related practices were developed I guess.

Herr Apollo, come let's kill all the Muslims and Jews! On second thoughts, let's kill Musselmans only, 'cuz Jews sell us missiles.

Anything Hindu all the pseudo seculars jump into action.The Jayamala episode looks like another attempt by christian missionaries to discourage Hindus and even people from other communities to go to sabarimala. As they fear the growing popularity of sabarimala and the values and discipline it stands for will attract the converted christians to come back to hinduism. The majority christian kerala government is trying level best to malign sabarimala, it did not utlise the pampa lake development fund given by the vajpayee govt to give better facilities to pilgrims and now there is every possible attempt by them and the pseudo secular media to malign Hindu temples. It shows the level of politicians like kharge and our media who jump to conclusions about principles of religion based on the words of a cabaret dancer.

satya,

>> attempt by christian missionaries to discourage Hindus

now thats an interesting twist in the story.. if u run out of ideas, begin blaming someone else..

Kishore, Lakshmikanth,
wow !! Comparing a mass freedom struggle to a remote incident of breaking the law set by the temple? She did break the law, if she was thinking about women empowerment or equality she should be debating about it and not breaking the law if the argument is based on the purpose of breaking the law.

Satya,
I can't see any relationship between the Jayamala episode and the Christian missionaries!!!! What relation could that possibly have????

hahaha :). don't worry guys. When the commies start getting angry and abusing you, it means that that the truth is on your side and u r winning.

hahaha :). I just love my great achievements in eliminating the class enemies. just read this one fine example ;).

And part of the killing was so random and idiosyncratic that journalists and social scientists have no concept for it, as in hundreds of thousands of people being executed according to preset, government, quotas. Says Vladimir Petrov (who in 1954 defected while a spy-chief in Australia and whose credibility and subsequent revelations were verified by a Royal--Australian-- Commission on Espionage7) about his work during the years 1936 to 1938:

"I handled hundreds of signals to all parts of the Soviet Union which were couched in the following form:
To N.K.V.D., Frunze. You are charged with the task of exterminating 10,000 enemies of the people. Report results by signal.--Yezhov."
And in due course the reply would come back:
"In reply to yours of such-and-such date, the following enemies of the Soviet people have been shot."

From time to time, in one period or another, quotas also were generally assigned for the numbers to be arrested throughout the length and breadth of Soviet territory. For example, Solzhenitsyn makes these quotas basic to the Great Terror of 1936 to 1938:

The real law underlying the arrests of those years was the assignment of quotas, the norms set, the planned allocations. Every city, every district, every military unit was assigned a specific quota of arrests to be carried out by a stipulated time. From then on everything else depended on the ingenuity of the Security operations personnel.9

But murder and arrest quotas did not work well.10 Where to find the "enemies of the people" to shoot was a particularly acute problem for these local NKVD who had been diligent in uncovering "plots". They had to resort to shooting those arrested for the most minor civil crimes, those previously arrested and released, and even mothers and wives who appeared at NKVD headquarters for information about their arrested loved ones.

We lack a concept for murder by quotas because we, not the journalist, historian, nor political scientist, have ever before confronted the fact that a government can and has done this kind of thing. For the same reason, neither do we have a concept for the execution of starving peasants who fished in a stream without Party permission (trying to steal state property), nor pinning a ten-year sentence on the first one to stop clapping after Stalin's name was mentioned at a public meeting.11 Nor for executing a fourteen-year-old because his father was purged; nor for the Red Army's not only permitting but encouraging mass rape and murder of civilians in virtually every country it newly occupied during World War II.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!. What are u doing on this stupid internet board comrades. Go kill every Man, woman and child u can find including ur friends and loved ones if they don't agree with u. starve them, torture them, rape them and realise the great workers paradise here on Earth.

Jayamala's husband Prabhakar was a christian and even Jayamala half christian she might have been lured by christian missionaries to do this wrong propaganda

'Many' of our rituals have a strong reason why they were brought into being, the logic of which may have been forgotten/lost, but many are very beneficial- its when fanatics mutilate these and add wrong interpretations to these thoughts over time , it appears as dogmatic.

This is one piece I found as a perfect example of the above thought. This about how muslim laws are wrongly interpreted, and what they were meant to be as per Koran.... interpretations!.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories/20060714000607800.htm

Each time-period had its concerns, and laws and rituals will be made to cater to those concerns. As time goes by, these concerns may change/not exist, so rethinking of rituals based on that change should be done.

'Many' of our rituals have a strong reason why they were brought into being, the logic of which may have been forgotten/lost, but many are very beneficial- its when fanatics mutilate these and add wrong interpretations to these thoughts over time , it appears as dogmatic.

This is one piece I found as a perfect example of the above thought. This about how muslim laws are wrongly interpreted, and what they were meant to be as per Koran.... interpretations!.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories/20060714000607800.htm

Each time-period had its concerns, and laws and rituals will be made to cater to those concerns. As time goes by, these concerns may change/not exist, so rethinking of rituals based on that change should be done.

Righta(on the biig comment)..right you are! :)