Live It Up, Girls!

hey..i have similar feelings..but most of my frens frm iit and iim still feel that a girl shud hang out with just one guy in her entire life (as this is an impossibility that they have to deal with..they have compromised to one guy only to sleep with)..tell ya what..india is going to be the same for a long time to come..a girl who sees many guys will continue to be considered 'loose'...cant help it

DG:

loss of life - any life is sad

it is so troubling when i read such posts...life is such a precious gift...and while we can conjure up all kinds of reasons and pressure situations one can be in...i can still not quite fathom any reason to end one's life

a dumb question--are there help lines or support groups for such folks in your city?

DG, agree with your sentiments. Good post.

t, when society does not even acknowledge that there is dating or should be, it is hardly going to go around setting up helplines for people on the brink of committing suicide, now, is it? It's not only the dating issue, it's also the issue of the pressure kids feel to do well in exams (there are reports of teenagers committing suicide b/c they've failed or fear failing exams almost everyday in the papers these days).

There are couple of helplines in Bangalore for suicide prevention.

One of them is called SAHAI @ 080-25497777

I personally know an elderly intellectual working to setup a mechanism for suicide prevention amoung the young in Bangalore through talks and counselling at schools.

Even a small number active people can make a big difference in lives of people. If you are interested to join him, let me know.

As societies start getting individualistic and materialistic, the suicide rates tend to go up.

The suicide rate of young boys and girls is the same(based on 1997 data) even though newspapers highlight suicides of girls only.

One of my close friends (male) committed suicide just 3 days before Intermediate exams. He was highly talented and the reason for his suicide was never know.

Thank you for your comments, everyone.
t - I think there's a helpline of sorts, set up by a charity the name of which escapes me at the moment. It was in service 6 years back, of that I'm sure. But the problem is publicity. Not many people know that such a thing exists. And anyway, to reach out to a helpline, shouldn't you want to be helped, in the first place?
I still can't get the image of such girls out of my head. Loose women, we ain't, just cos we don't want to tie ourselves to losers. What say?

Sorry - clicked Submit before I ran out of steam. As Prashanth puts it, if IITians and IIM chaps subscribe to the belief that good homely girls are not to date more than one guy, then there's a lot of educating to be done, isn't there? I mean, these are the guys coming out of our top educational institutions. If they still are trudging along the old path of morality, then we have a long, long way to go before our girls really get social freedom.

"No more 'chup chup ke' stuff please. Going out with a girl / guy isn't exactly something to be ashamed of, is it?"

Very Interesting point auntie!!!

But the problem is recently in a well known delhi PUB the delhi SHO uncle had baned the entry of total 14 girls as the two group was fighting and breaking glass , the issue was, "How dare you to talk to my boy friend? he is mine, better you try some other guy.. the fight start and ended in the police station".

No more 'chup chup ke' stuff please.--Agreed.

What about -- Dada gari in the name of no 'chup chup ke'?


Hope the same will not be repeated at Chennai also.

Same group , entered another pub and there also SHO police baned them after three days entry.

This is not fare, waht do you fell auntie?

Regarding sucide, auntie, have you ever try to find out how many our uncle sucide and how many our auntie sucide ever year?
No, that is a crime, as the sucided of a auntie will be the story, sucide of a uncle can't be a story heading, that will term as crime.....

"The problem with this idea though, is the mentality of certain young men out there. If a girl has a couple of boyfriends, then she is considered 'loose', as in, morally (not mental!)"

Auntie,the problem lying in the above coment itslef and the solution also hiding in the coment itself.

Like each and every thing Blaming our men uncles and cry for free help.

Men Consider women loose..if she....
so do you mean to say, a Women does not consider another women loose....if....she..... wonder!!!

If our certain Men Uncle consider our women auntie a loose character for certain reaosn, no one had stopped for our Women Auntie also to think in the same line...

Here the problem, fight between Men vs women.

If I change the word "Young men" to "Maximum Women", what will be reaction in that line and just make a survey the answer will come automatically.


""The problem with this idea though, is the mentality of Maximum Women out there. If a girl has a couple of boyfriends, then she is considered 'loose', as in, morally (not mental!)"

Wonder, is our women aunties think in different way than our men uncles?

At least I have not seen that till date....

Kush
Ok - what's with all the 'auntie' stuff anyways? In the midst of your gazillion 'auntie's and 'uncle's, I never got the point you were trying to make. What I wrote in that piece was written after hearing a shocking news. I wasn't taking a stand against 'uncles', for 'aunties' or whatever. The point isn't 'Man' Vs. 'Woman' - when everything gets boiled down to that factor, the importance of a matter gets lost, methinks. This is about young girls losing their self-worth after getting dumped. Not about the fragility of 'uncle's egos.

Auntie, I am too small to understand all those complex thinking and not became so much biased till now.

I just read your story and as the gist, I found the solution comes out the problem had been described.

Blaming men for each and every problem of a girls or women is nothing but diverting the real problem/solution.

Still I do not understand, if a men consider a women loose for certain activity, why a women also does not consider the same way? Because the reality is a women consider another women loose for that activity much more than cretain men.

Here the hiding truth...

Violence is not the solution to create a harmoney in the society.

Once again your own comment only :-
"This is about young girls losing their self-worth after getting dumped."---

My comment:-

"This is about young girls losing thier self-worth after taught that for each and every thing comes in this world as a whole sale free lincence in a realtionship in the name of girls/women and when some thing goes worng all the blame to be put on boys/men/husabnds only.

Till the time a women/girls does not belife that free meal is not the solution.

Earn by thier won hard work and self belife.. Which had been never ever taught to them.

On the other hand it had been taught, what ever you want the same you can easily earn by doing dadagri and by crying in front of Public or court room.

After reading the story, it confirms, otherwise, when men/women both have the same view regarding a "loose" women, but the story does not say a single word about the women!!! Are you afrid to be termed as "Anti women , if write about bad women?"

Wonder, this to be termed a thinking of a Auntie or a young girls?

"I never got the point you were trying to make."

- The pointer had been allready made in my previous comment my auntie( Comment no.8), for your ready reference:-

""The problem with this idea though, is the mentality of certain young men out there. If a girl has a couple of boyfriends, then she is considered 'loose', as in, morally (not mental!)"
---

This itslef had ruined the whole story.

It is upto you and the other readers to decided, what is worng and what is right.

Desigirl, I don't consider girls who have gone out with more than one guy as 'loose'. Only those who've had sex innumerable times maybe considered loose.

And secondly, this thing called love is a very strong feeling that it can even lead to (unnecessary) suicide. I know it's hard to understand but it's true. They need counselling.

Why are those who have had sex considered 'loose' - why does it matter?

I said 'innumerable' times, didn't I? It matters maybe because of fear of HIV. And their similarity to prostitutes. lol.

See, nothing really matters. I'm sure as time passes, people will start asking me, 'What's the matter if my wife has sex with other people?'

By the way, I think desigirl was talking about dating minus the sex, am I right?

Thinking about it again, Aaman, you have a point. Hmm. But then virgins are virgins :) 2 or 3 times, acceptable, but more than that? - maybe I'm not that advanced :o

Aaman uncle having sex in the name of dating is not a crime for girls/auntie, not sure for boys/uncles.

Indian LAW says, if the sex happened without marriage in the name of dating, to be termed as RAPE.

So it is not a matter that the women/men is loose or tight character.Indian LAW does not allow to have the sex without marriage to boys/uncles. And offcourse, there are very few who would like to love to do crime...

Indian Rape LAW says it is crime, but the same is applicable for only to boys/uncles....

Sucide/attempet to sucide is a crime, when the same done by a boy/uncle, but the same is not a crime when doen by a auntie/girls.

Can any one explin , why such double standard? My small brain does not understand that.

It's not the quantity, it's the quality, and it just befuddles me that anyone would care or approve/disapprove of another individual's sexual habits/preferences/frequency.

One more think do not regist to say uncle as you asked:-

"Why are those who have had sex considered 'loose' - why does it matter?"

- Our LAW maker does not understand that, as per them it is a crime and matters a lot in 21st century also in so called Indian society.

Otherwise, how we can justify to a auntie who ask maintance/allomoney from her ex husabnd for having legal sex, irrespective the divorce filed by uncle or auntie?

I guess the debate is about young girls committing suicide when 'jilted'. Now Kush and other friends, if you replace it with a person would one be happy?

Then, is it ok to let young people commit suicide? That's the question. Young people committing suicide either for they are jilted or are afraid that they may fail in an exam or any thing.

The issue is SUICIDE. Should a young life be lost? I am sure some of know that those things we thought were the biggest and felt most intensely, later we find the space and time and the inclination to laugh it off as some silly thing. And wonder at the passion with which we held. Harmones I guess.

And my dear sir/madam, Kush, I guess, it is important to seek someone's permission to call them auntie or uncle. Who knows you might be her aunt or uncle! Even if you are younger!

Anyways, I always wonder at the need to dissipate whenever someone feels intensely. For one is afraid of the intensity that is evoked in one!

Balaji,
Well written - couldn't have put it better myself! *claps*

Aaman - sadly, I think we still are in the Dark Ages where sexual freedom is concerned. What business is it of anybody else's but the individuals in question beats me, but there you go. By 'sexual freedom', I don't just mean the freedom to have sex with anyone under the sun - it also refers to the mentality that if you have sex with someone (be it themselves), then you are 'unclean' or 'loose'. Go figure!

Drac - Before any other 'young one' slams me for it, yep, I meant dating without bringing sex into the mix.

Thanks DG.

I think we are proud of the luggage that the British forgot to take with them. Their Victorian values.

And we believe they are Indian. What rubbish.

You just have to go to Khajuraho or the Konark temples - to understand how Indians, especially Hindus lived with the tabooed concepts 'sex' and 'sexuality'.

Or read any of our 'ancient' plays. How playful they were.

I have a theses about men and why they harp so much about virginity and are afraid about female sexuality and its expression. Might sound mischievous! So be it.

Men often feel small. And therefore make a big thing about it :-) I have two pages written on it. Some other time, some other space!

Cheers.

You could post it as an article, balaji:)

Looking forward to reading your theses on men and their whatnots, Balaji. Should have enuf material for a PhD there!!!
:)

Balji uncle, ( hope uncle and auntie word are not a insulting word,in Dc comment section you will find a lot of other adjective also), what you said, the same thing I also said, but the question is unanswered? Would you please explain?

If the story talks about the sucide and how to stop it, then there is no debate.
I had allready put my observation, why this sotory does not intented to resolve the problem and how we misguided for decades. We can't term a bad women as a bad women, as we afrid we will be termed as Anti women, as a result the honest women suffers for those bad womens and we blindly support them.
The question comes, when the girls sucided that is not considered as a crime and the balme to the men irrespective the girls is right or wrong.

On the other hand when a boy sucided, the question of crime and all other logic comes.

that is the reason i request to go thorugh the sucide statisctics of men vs women let it be young, age old or middle aged.

As per me, people sucide due to such type of mind set that, once I sucide all my crime will be converted to sympathy.
Are we ready to change that my dearest uncle and auntie?

"I have a theses about men and why they harp so much about virginity and are afraid about female sexuality and its expression. Might sound mischievous! So be it."

- This is the question we have to be asked to our LAW maker.
- The above comment applicable to women 1000times more than men, check the reality, who brother more about the verginity of a girls, you will get your own answer.
- Why a sex in the name of date considered as Rape?
- Why a loss of verginity , considered automatic choice for ask of compensation in the name of maintance/allomoney?

Are we ready to do that?

Now try to find out who makes those LAW?

Who demand those one sided LAW in India?
It will be very interesting!!!!

One had we say loss of verginity is not a crime, but who does it is to be termed as rapist?

It is like Selling Drug is not a crime, but taking drug is a crime!

Here is the truth and the word perfectly match "Might sound mischievous!"

My view, sucide and attempet of sucide is a crime and those people to be treated as a criminal,there should not be any sympthay( like those terrorist use the sucide bomb to fulfill thier unlogical demand), let it be girls or boy, let it be a uncle or auntie, then only the sucide will reduce, as still Maximum Indian belive not to be termed as a criminal.
Choice is on individuals, when scuh business of earning money and extrotion in the name of sucide/threat of sucide will stop ....

People who committ suicide generally have a history of depression. Sometimes I think people of our generation are more like glass children. We haven't seen one tenth of the horrors as suffered by our grandparents' generation and at the smallest blows we break so easily.

'it also refers to the mentality that if you have sex with someone (be it themselves), then you are 'unclean' or 'loose'. Go figure! "

Once again my dearest auntie, the evidence and the alligation allready available in the Indian court rooms.

If the comment to be accepted, who have to accept that? Who need to change the mentality?

As per record form old age to 21st cnetury, maximum auties are very much trained to blast our uncles, if their shirt gives a different sweet smels other than the same one what she used for herself..

Wonder who need to change the mentality....??
or
This is another step to divert the issue and prove my logic, this story to put all the balme to... sorry , who are not blind will understand.

Deepti auntie, that is the reson I am proud of my dad and accepted his name, because he proudly say
" Yes I was a Railway Howker, but never balme any one or expect any thing to complete my education".

That is the reson I love my dadi, who says, to give a happiness to my child, I never hesitate to work as a house hold servents.

Here the difference, the moment our parents will teach us, there is no free milk, you deserve what you are and if you want some thing, you have to earn that by your hard work and your creditibility only.

Sucide is not a weapen to hide your failure or crime.
Sucide itslef is a crime and you will be treated as Bad Human being and if you alive, you will be punished for doing such dirty thing.

Then let see, how many people make sucide?

Kush, most people who committ suicide dont do it out of vengence but due to grief or loss of hope. Their existence seems so unbearably deary that the only relief they can see is by ending it.

Sure, they become self absorbed and don't think about those around them but that is the symptom of depression- to be cut off from the world and to suffer in isolation.

And to further victimize a person who is already in hell seems to nonsensical to me.

They need proffessional help and not to be treated like criminals.

As far as women committing suicide because of being dumped ..well thats just the tip of the ice berg...most women dont go around killing themsleves because of a failed love affair. As I said before some people are fragile and others as sturdy as the rock of gibraltar

Blaming men for each and everything will only make things worse for everybody.

Too much of hue and cry is being made out of Nafisa Joseph and co. People wrote thousands of articles without any originality (hence SPAM) every where.
-------

Suicide rate in India is increasing. The young are the most vulnerable irrespective of Gender. Only discussion without any meaningful action leads no where.

I know so many men/boys committing suicide after being dumped. But, how can a patriarchal society can ever have any consideration for these egoistic 16th century animals?

Men/boys tend to use more violent methods (of suicide) than women/girls. Once I heard of a guy getting under a train after a troubled two way love story.

-----

I am sure, some people in DC considered it a birth right for feminazis to speard SPAM in the name of creating social awareness where as the real goal is to spread hatred and extremism.
-----

sumanth:

analyze the kush-uncle near-spams in the light of the following quote:)

I am sure, some people in DC considered it a birth right for feminazis to speard (sic)SPAM in the name of creating social awareness where as the real goal is to spread hatred and extremism.

Desigirl, now that you clarified that dating doesn't necessarily include sex, what's the whole deal? I mean why do you consider Indian men to be backward? Most of us don't mind if our partners had previous relationships, even if they have had sex (not like a whore, though).

Our parents may have reservations, so your article is actually directed at the previous generation. Or is it?

Suicides.. hmm.. like I said.. love is a strong feeling - only those who have fallen in love and broken up will understand. To others, it's no big deal. But ofcourse, suicide is not the option. Like Deepthi said, it's not only for love issues.. it can also be for a failure in exams.. or even at the loss of the national team at the world cup!

Drac,
I understand that most of our notions regarding relationships are changing. But the problem is there are not many people who fall into the so-called 'liberal' category. We still have a long way to go before a girl can date more than one guy and not earn a bad name, IMHO, especially in the South.

I don't think men need to be so fragile for any pointing to wrong doing by some men.

Hence, the constant we v/s they, men v/s women need not be the refrain from Drac and my new-found nephew/niece Kush. And Kush I do not think it is an insult being called uncle. I am Ok. Except that I have been trying to make sense of your deep pain. True. Have been struggling. I must have read your post/s, more than thrice to make sense. In poorvashram, I was a professor, and I used to read multiple times those answer papers which were badly scrawled. To see if there was some sense in it.

And Drac, there are no whores. There are only commercial sex workers :-)

And then, it is a choice for some women who would like to sell their bodies to make a living. we have no business calling them whores.

and probably there is an infitesimal percentage of women who do it for fun and money. As far as one knows most of them get into sex-work for there is no choice or have been forced into it. Often by men.

And that infitisemal percentage would probably be equal to or (my hunch is) significantly less than the men who sell themselves to dowries - of course in some cases it is a single downpayment in some cases it is the 'balloon' system of payment from the girl's side. It is similar to what you were trying to connote about the concept called 'whore'. Selling one's body for the sake of money. those who sell themselves for 'dowry' often are not in such distressful situations as the 'whores' that you refer to.

And what is the big deal? Some sell their souls some their bodies and some sell both (the dowriwallahs). In an ever commercializing world, where market is GOD,why are we caught in this?

And if you want to know how young girls in distress are tricked and forced into commercial sex work, go talk to any NGO which is working against human trafficking and rehabilitation. You would shudder. It least I did. The person who was trafficked could have been my sister. Or yours, who knows!

Please read the follwing article and see the beauitiful description of my friend who has so aptly defined the roles of women .

http://indianhusbands.blogspot.com/2005/08/498a-made-for-sita-but-surpanakhas-are.html

Temporal,

Why do you have to maintain double standards?

You do not have any problems when anti-male dumb, plagiarised feministic articles are published in DC or anywhere else. You never protest against them. But you vehemently oppose anything which is even remotely anti-women.

So far as Kush's material is concerned, it is no way different from what feminists express in their articles or on ground during protests(like breaking chairs in Delhi High court).

----------

Finally, Kush has always raised many valid points for which many (including you) do not have any answers.

When people can not answer something, they hide behind literaure and false accusations.

---------

Others: Please do not try to take more high ground to preach it is not a men vs women fight.

The politicians and fundamentalists first used religion (apeasement and then division) for narrow gains.

Then, they vultured into Caste divisions.

Now, politicians and gender fundamentalists are using gender for their personal gains.

The writers and journalists want to hone their skills in this grim battle field.

Deepti auntie with due respect to you and your all friends, "the reason of incresing sucide is the mind set and the assumption,dadgri LAWs of India,justyfy the illogical demands and term those as a loss of "Hope"."

We have to educated ourself first and clear in our mind, sucide is a nobel work or a crime?

Indian LAW says attempet to sucide is a crime, but the punishment will be to the men only without any investigation and the men have to prove that the women have not made the sucide for the harrasement done by men.( Special dadagri LAW)

On the other hand when a men attempted sucide, the LAW is well placed and there is no punishment to the women, let the women dump the men or blackmail to earn the money.

If it is a Nobel work, then there is no need to cry for them.
If it is not a Nobel work, that is nothing but the terrorist mind set.

And our LAW maker ensuring all the effort that, people prefer Sucide as a tools to hide thier own crime.

As a result the comment justify the logic as under:-"Kush, most people who committ suicide dont do it out of vengence but due to grief or loss of hope."

Now the question, what is to be defined as a "Hope"? Is it getting some thing as a whole sale free lincence?

Next thing we have decide "Sucide" is a crime or a Nobel work ?

Do you consider the Sucide a weapen to hide the failure and loss of Hope and convert your own wrong doing/failure to convert a sympathy agenda?

Regarding pure love, it is upto the age of 16 or 17 and after that all the love are nothing but manipulation of taking benift each other in the name of Love.....

Your last comment:-
"They need proffessional help and not to be treated like criminals."

How many agrees to this from heart, when a men/boy sucide?

Or

this logic to be applicable only when a girls/women sucide?

Indian LAW Maker chose the second option, I only wonder, how the defination and logic for a "Sucide" change in two different direction!!!!!

Can one tell me :-

"Sucide is a Nobel work or a Crime?"

Let decide and chose the path!!!

Sumanth writes, "Kush has always raised many valid points".

Sure you were not present at the Mahajan Dope Party?? No offence...just asking.

Sumanth

I can't believe you!!!!!

Your views on politics, corruption, fundamentalists are worth pondering over. Majority of time you are so precise, you know just know it all & communicate it so well in writing. And I think you are a man with lots of knowledge, information and experience.

But alas....when it comes to expressing something on women--your views are pathetic & bitter.

What happens or rather what happened???

Balaji uncle,Thank god that you are not my school teacher, otherwise my Score should have been -100 in class 6th final exam.

What is the grantee that a Professors means have the full knowledge of each and every thing and no question to be asked to them?

In poorvashram, I will be a gate keeper, and I will be happy to observe multiple times those dump professors ....( Edited)

Sakshi auntie, in the party only feminist was allowed(but they escaped in right time and started to write the story)...No offence.. just asking,as a lot of DC writers writes the full details of the party, hence the probality says who was present there.

Definetely when you will orginaise the Next party, we will reach there to catch all your friends and send them behind the bar.. grantee.

grantee ? :)

In 100 suicides 60 are by men and 40 by women.
Still people say 80 are by women and 20 by men.

This is to justify that women are oppressed in the society.
Can any one change people's fraudulent convictions?

Answer: "NO"

Sakshi,

The so called "Dope" party may or may not have really happened. Anything and everything is possible in this world. "What is reality?" is a million dollar question.


Preeti,

I just wanted to emulate feminists, their ideology, activities and use the same theory in the opposite way.

So, my views are as bitter or pathetic as feminist weltanschauung(worldview). I am deeply convinced that feminism is being hijacked by hate mongering extremists and all moderates have taken a backseat.

I have nothing against feminism or women's empowerment. I am for complete gender equality. I just wanted to see if society can tolerate men expressing themselves freely about relationships, feelings and all that stuff which was earlier considered feminine.

It is just a sociological experiment that I have taken on. I collect rich amount of data from the reaction of various people to the articles and comments.

There are marked differences in reactions based on whether,

1) the person is male or female.
(We get more opposition from males than females).
The more chauvinistic the male is, the more he is angry with us.

2) the man is married or unmarried Indian.

(Married men rarely fight with us.)

3) the person is a feminist or a humanist.

4) the feminist(female) is young or old or married.

The feminists in early twenties are the ones who get very angry with us. The feminists in 50s generally agree with us or ignore us.

5) the woman has male kids or female kids.

6) the person is conservative or liberal.

7) Whether the person is in the domain of Engineer/science or arts/literature.

--------
I am also a counsellor for elders who get abused, threatened by their daughter-in-law or her parents. I have gone to courts to stand for the 70 year olds(men/women) who have faced false criminal cases and won (beyond reasonable doubt).
--------

Sumanth - My point excatly. The SIFish reality is a question mark after all. :)

I prefered desigirl replying (which she did in # 32) and not Balaji - this guys gets on my nerves :/

Ok, desigirl, I got your point, but I'll show you two contradicting stuff in your article:-

First you say, "The desi concept of dating, wherein if you go out with a person, then they are 'it' might not be such a great thing, especially if the bloke turns out to be a cad. "

And then you say people suicide because of love failure (read break-up). See, the phenomenon of break-up is not rare in India.

Get the contradiction? :D

Sakhi auntie,SIF had sucessufully saved a lot of people's life by councelling to avoid Suicide.

It is the time for BIFish to save those people to avoid Suicide for the loss of so called "HOPE", the way Ms.Prinkya Chopra sucide after dumped by Akshy Kumar and Krishma Kapoor in a famous movie( forget the name something like Athazrajj.. )in front of Judge and society.

Drac

Let me see... have I tied myself in knots over this issue? Looks like! As you say, breaking up is not rare - I have heard of many instances wherein the bloke 'dates' couple of girls, then when Amma puts her foot down, dumps the girl and marries the one chosen by the family. This may sound like a sub-plot of a Tamil movie (I say Tamil cos I am a Tamilian - no other reason!) but believe you me when I say that I have come across such guys. And before any of you say I am a feminist or whatever, I am not! Most times, it is other women who end up being the villians in such situations. There's this girl in the my husband's extended family who used to have a boyfriend. Apparently they broke up a while back and the girl's folks are looking for a suitable boy for her. You should have heard the comments that were passed by close relations - women, I should add. 'Oh she used to flaunt her boyf and now we can wait and see as to who will marry her' was a prized one. I couldn't see what the big deal was - she had a boyf, then they went their own ways. But she is being branded a scarlet women while the bloke suffered no such nasties and is engaged to a 'proper' girl now.
Once again, this is not a girl vs. guy situation. The point I was trying to made was that these young impressionable girls shouldn't go to such drastic measures over a failed relationship. While there are loads of reasons why people commit suicide, the one I was concerned at the point of writing the article was that of 21-year olds killing themselves cos they were jilted.

I am not getting into any legal harangues over this.

sumanth:

so only SIF can have pov-s?

agree with you uncle kush makes sense...when one writes 100 words a few words do make sense (on rare occasions, mind you ...:)

Kush dada - Sakhi..huh !!

Temp - He surely does make sense, you only need to look thru a magnifying glass and oh yes !! Ignore the spelling faults. But ya..rest some-what makes sense. Hmmm..ya I think he makes non sense. :)

Auntie, if a "Slightly Feminist" can remove the word "Slightly" form her Introduction page...
Wonder from Sakshi to Sakhi, to be consider as a crime or not.
Sense or Non Sense depends on accepting the reality.
By the way check the article by Subhashini Ali Sehgal is a prominent feminist taken a 180 degree U turn in todays "Dainik Jagran".

saks

said the man
with toe nails
nine yards long
and a beard
for a tent

uncle aik rupiah dey do
aunti aik rupiah dey do

all day long
he'd mutter
uncle aunty
aunty uncle
to himself
endlessly

;)

t - Bravo! *claps*

"Suicide is a Nobel work or a Crime?"
-
We got your answer uncle, what about auntie?

"said the man
with toe nails
nine yards long
and a beard
for a tent"

aik rupiah can't give the answer
Internate does not accept bribe
yes
NDTV accept
Pimps accept
Lakin habit itna jaldi
nehi jatha hai..

kush uncle:

encore?

all day long
he'd mutter
uncle aunty
aunty uncle
to himself
endlessly

;)

Kush, dear, Hope is a feeling that tomorrow we may smile again, feel love and tenderness yet again, that our hearts may gladden with the smiles of our loved ones, that our homes and hearths are filled with joy and good health.

Those who loose sight of the value of being alive for even a day, loose hope and find answer in death.

In your own suffering, dear Kush, you seem to have lost compassion for those who suffer more than you and cannot bear of agony of being alive.

Suicide for me is not a part of gender war but is a human problem. We need to be compassionate towards those with damaged souls be they men or women.

Kush - Yes dada, it is you and only you..that made me realise that I am a Feminist (not slightly but complete). You should be proud !! :)

But come on yaar, I thought by now you should be able to spell my name..at any given moment. Afterall I am your favourite auntie, aren't I ?

Temp - You never stop amazing me with your unique sense of humor.

Its true, every life is precious.

That includes the lives of all those unborns who are murdered by feminist pro-choice campaigners.

Abortion is a birth right for these murderers. But abortion of female foetus is genocide!!

This nice advice should also be conveyed to Shabana Azmi, Brinda Karat, Flavia Agnes, Indira Jaisingh, Suhasini Ali, Ranjana Kumari, Khushboo, Pooja Bhatt and Aishwarya Rai.

Why do not we convert women studies departments into family studies departments? Are not children, elders and men part of the society?

In short, the war has already been started by feminists by poisoning the minds of people. Politicians will now pitch in for female votes.

A Women's college in Bangalore enacts a play with title,"Shoot the mother-in-law". Is this what the education all about?

It is a fact that Feminist kindergarten teachers discriminate boys. Today, newspapers shout out,"Ladkiyone Baazi Mari" regarding CBSC results. In any survey in magazines(e.g. Indian Today) or in TV interviews on education, mostly girls are shown. Are there only girls in college campuses?

This is a large scale gender war. Now, it has started to enter into workplace as well.

The son of Union Minister of state Dasari Narayana Rao is mentally ill as his wife threatens a hunger strike alledging dowry harassment.

Why are the feminists keeping quite? Why is National Commission for Women keeping mum?

Sumanth, your logic seems to desert you here: Abortion is a birth right for these murderers. But abortion of female foetus is genocide!!

I could deconstruct the difference between pro-choice and foeticide, but why bother?

Gender wars exist, but dude, any man could tell you that the benefits far outweigh the negatives vis-a-vis women. Again, don't want to get into a debate about 'bad apples' of either gender.

Aaman,

If this gender war benefits (or will benefit) women, then I would not have raised all these issues.

I feel, Patriarchy is so huge that it has setup feminism in a failure path.

benefits and risks go hand in hand. The danger of failure is inherent in every mechanism set up by humans, change can only produce something that has potential for failure, but change will not stop.

As we head towards gender equality, females will start losing various special privileages that patriarchy provided them for ages.

Female's who drive boyfriends/husbands to suicide go scot free today. Soon that will change in India as they will also get arrested under nonbailable warrents.

Why society is so lenient towards female criminals? Because, they produce children. Once children become low priority(with huge populations), this leniency will go.

sumanth:

oddly i agree with you

as we strive for a just society...a society that treats everyone with equality...regardless of gender, race, caste, religion or labels...one level playing field...for you, me and others!

then and only then these incessant gender wars would be a storm in a tin pot

are you for a just society or for continuing gender wars?

I am against oscillating systems.

MCP-->FCP--->mcp--->fcp--->m..c..p--->f...c...-->...-->....------------>

I want the war to end in 5 years in stead of continuing for 50 years. So, one way is to accelerate it.

I am a fan of Harry Seldon.

God, what an interesting mess.

Intelligent people, who can write well, can think analytically, becoming bitter and narrow-minded on the basis of bad experience in life.

Just because, a woman was a selfish lout, does not make all women that.

Just because, a man is a PIA not all men become louts.

But, for records sake, often women take the brunt, like most dispossed.

If some of you hate me or love me, does not really matter. What matters, is what I have experienced. As some of you would like rest of us believe your pathos, and tragedy as the tragedy of human kind.

And Sumanth's categories I do not agree. I am a happily married man. For more than 20 years.

So much for the rich sociological data.

Men and women, is as much a category as Indian or Pakistani, Israeli, American et al. Just that. Categories. Helps to understand behavior at a very generic, probably 30000 feet level.

At the very real level we experience people as people. But there are trends, and processes which one cannot ignore.

Just to share with my friends, who believe patriarchial society did great things for women,
a reality check - only a very small percentage of girls make it to 10 class.

Check your company, or organization where you work. If women are close to 50% of population, you would expect about 50% or close to it in organizations. Are they there? How many of corporate India's leaders are women?

How many of politicians are women? Patriarchy would like them to be baby making machines hanging out at home and taking care of the sexual needs of the patriarchical men, and other needs of their families.

Get real friends.

Auntie my diaper is lickining....will you change it?? auntie auntie ...i want a uncle. I will dance in your wedding.

:)))))

Deepti aunite,your view
"Suicide for me is not a part of gender war but is a human problem."

- if sucide is a Human problem,the writer should have highlight that in the story and my some great uncle/auntie have not highlighted that also, which I tried to point out.

It is not the mistake of writer, it is the mind set and as a result of high increse of Suicide will continue.

Any way, writer had taken 90 degree turn, required 180 degree if really we belive suicide is a human problem and that is not a gender war, if we really want to consider that Sucide is a Human problem.

Till date the mind set and as Per LAW when a Girl/auntie suicide that is a Nobel work...why?

Balaji uncle your coment itself restrict our Indian women that they does not deserve for good working class citizen.

"Check your company, or organization where you work. If women are close to 50% of population, you would expect about 50% or close to it in organizations. Are they there? How many of corporate India's leaders are women?"

Why only in company?.. My orginasation also consistis:-

What about in army force?
What about in Bus driver?
What about in taxi driver?
What about in Rishwka driver?
What about in Railway Howker?
What about in Petrol pump?
What about in Car parking?
What about in Car/motor garage shope?..like that a lot are there.

If reservation is the solution, let every section the reservation should be 50:50, including child custedy, including each and every job, will you agree?

It should not be like , sweet is for me and bitter thing for you.

No..no.. there need hard work and we can earn more than that by dishonest way by selling our body and in old age a lot of people are there who are working for our "rehiblitation",

In the name of equality we need only call center job,Reception Job,medical job, teacher job...where you can do less job and eat samaosha and Gosip how bad are husabnd family and MIL..and men's world does not allow us to work as CEO or President of a Companey!!!

Here is the problem, when some one want some thing as a Free meal instead of thier own capability and hard work, brings such type of people.

Now, A uncle and auntie earn the same amount, but why auntie pay less tax?

When a Husabnd earn , wife does not earn , husabnd have to pay miantance to wife for life long?
On the other hand when wife works and husabnd does not work, why the wife should not pay maintance to husband for life long?

20 years happy marriage does not grantee that some one is a good human being.
A lot of terrorist and hard core criminals also claim that they have happy married life more than 30 years, as thier wife does not complin to fulfill her "HOPE".

Auntie.."But come on yaar, I thought by now you should be able to spell my name..at any given moment. Afterall I am your favourite auntie, aren't I ?"...hee hee!!

Forgive meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee,

correct spell of your name is "Sakshi" auinte only.

Kash those legal terrorist also learn some thing from you....making fool the people.
Late is always better than Never...

Agree with you my dear nephew/niece Kush.

20 years or 30 years stuff. No issue.

But as much you want the world to hate women because you or someone close to you must have had, I guess I have a right to make you believe at the minimum about my experience and my life?

Or is that you are GOD herself to know what is real in my life and define it for me?

I am sure if I have to put a financial scale to what my mother must have contributed to our home and all of us kids, it would be many and many times over what my father earned. Everything counted.If she demanded alimony from my father, he would have gone bankrupt. fortunately she did not.

And to say women gssip, what do you think all of us are doing here? and the prolific comments from you and your friends. Unless this is the work you do. In that case hat's off to you.

All the women that worked with me excepting one (who was the type you love to hate and often talk about), were conscientious, focused and delivered to both quantity and quality.

They do not take smoke breaks, they do not take chai-breaks.

So do I generalize on the basis of this one particular woman or all the other women? Both are realities.

Unless, I make my thinking hostage to hatred. and Blind HATRED.

There is something moronic called THINKING I do -to borrow a phrase from George Carlin.

Let Goddess Kali save you my dear niece/nephew.

Balaji,

Did you ever oppose any feminist spewing hate?

No. Because, you may have felt that hate brings gender equality. Then you have no right to oppose female bashing.

We are inspired by feminists and we believe in gender equality.

So, we will make

Female Bashing = Male Bashing.

The problem with most "logical" people is that they use a lot of double standards.

All the things that women do in a house can be outsourced (that too at a much lower cost).

If you are married for more than 20 years, then I consider you to be just lucky. You will not understand the ground reality today.

A fiancee of a friend of mine told him,"Lets marry and see how it goes for next 4 to 5 months."

They had separation in 4 months. Please do not say that it is an exception.

I know so many people who have not seen their kids of years. The courts also have not been able to do anything when these unfortunate men were denies their genuine right to child visitation.

No one is fighting a personal battle here. It is a collective front of Men and Elders. 50% of our members are women. Our centers in Bangalore and California are headed by women.

Today, women are tortured in the name of women's empowerment. Can a 3-year old girl or a 87-year old girl burn anyone for dowry. Please tell me?

If yes, then I have nothing to say. Please do not call this an exception when society goes ga ga for just 3500 bar girls or just 50,000 people in Narmada Bacho Andolan.

We are fighting for 25 lac people(men, women, children, elders) who are suffering because of biased Journalists, writers, propaganda elements and mindless clones.

Dear Sumanth

I have no issues. earlier in one of the blogs I talked about my brush with 498a.

i commend your collective for helping help-less men and the women who are dear to them.

I am not denying that Law often is blind. And not to speak about law enforcers - otherwise known as police.

None I would deny.

Any extreme hate spewing by whoever I do not condone. If you think I do, it is sad.

But that does not make me bitter. I would not like to be bitter. And see the whole world thru the same prism. Then I would be condeming myself.

I would not like to use the same brush to paint every woman that I know - because I had a brush with someone who was bad. That's my point.

It's like losing one's humanity when one had an experience with a bad human being.

All I am saying or trying to say, is that on balance, the scales are not in favor of women.

This I am saying after having gone thru the shame, the indignity, anger and why me or us phases at that particular episode.

And there is no scale for pain. If 25 lac men are sufferers does not take away from the indignity of even 3500 bar dancers who face or likely a threat to their livelihoods. Or the 50000 Narmada oustees.

It is not a numbers game. And it is a numbers game.

Is it possible to create a space where the pain of those sufferers that you represent or are fighting for, can co-exist with those who are socially disadvantged - given the patriarchical structures? Feudal structures? Female Foeticides? Rapes, violence, indignities and all?

If your pain is gnawing, you must as well connect with the pain of others too.

No thinking person can deny that the scales on balance are titled against women - in general, at least in India.

If that makes me some ist, so be it.

Balaji dadhu, this is a comment section where the thinking and the mindset and the possible cuase and solution discussed. Look the writer own comment, 90 degree turn around-- can you tell me why, such difference when the story written and the view in comment section?

Any thing regarding personnel,though I love to do that, but DC Comment policy does not allow that.

Now come to your comment:-

"But as much you want the world to hate women because you ....."

What do you mean by women?
Role of wife- From a Raja Haris Chandra family.
Role of a Daughter, Mother, sister... From a Criminal family?

Now you decided who ever support such dadagri law to do legal rape of our Mother, sister and daughter.. what punishment you recomended...the same can't we accept by giving the Quantity theroy?
If so, then we do not have right to punish the terrorist also, and you know TADA/POTA had been allready changed.

Why this two difference between the changes in TADA/POTA vs 498A logic?

As you accept bad Women and bad Men both are there ...
So would you suggest that we should love the Bad women also instead of hate, the way Ravan had done as she was his own sister?

Here is the difference of thought of you and your this kid.

Do not dare to say a single word against a Bad women, " You will be termed as Anti-Women"

And not only people like you and your this kid, maximum people in the fear and go for suicide, but that is not considered as "LOSS of HOPE".
Any LAW/activity/logic should be crime based, the same can't be a assumption based, otherwise how the LAWS made where Verbal abuse, Economical abuse, adultrate relationship..etc in a assumption that only husabnd family does and wife family are all honest people, they never lie.

Now please do not try to divert the same in the name of Quantity, it is the matter of quality of Crime.
Misuse of 498A is a crime is worse than a Gange rape, as in case of rape one person suffers, but in 498A blood cancer a group of people suffers.

Balaji,

Let me assure you that I (we) do not look the whole world from one prism. Whatever we write, we write deliberately and it is not a function of any bitterness inside.

No battle can be fought effectively when the fighter fights it with frustration or bitterness. The fact that we have sustained our work over years proves that we have gone beyond our personal struggles and accepted the situation the way it is.

The 25 lac people suffering are not just men. They include women, elders, children as well.

This suffering is more due to apathy/hypocrisy or biased attitudes of journalists, writers, pseudo-liberals than the corrupt law enforcers.

The issue is deliberately suppressed by journalists, media, NGOs and Human rights organisations. Because, they fear if this "legal terrorism" gets highlighted then there would be a backlash against women's empowerment.

Some of your personal experiences could have shaped your perceptions.

You wrote that once you have to take your mother to burn ward. I can speculate what you are hinting at.

I can give an opposite scenario.

I have to put a lot of effort and counselling to prevent my father from committing suicide. Why do not you consider that it would also have changed my perceptions?

Its upto the feminists to understand that their own sons will watch and judge them, just the way you (Balaji) are judging a man.

balaji:

very well said...

It is not a numbers game. And it is a numbers game.

Is it possible to create a space where the pain of those sufferers that you represent or are fighting for, can co-exist with those who are socially disadvantged - given the patriarchical structures? Feudal structures? Female Foeticides? Rapes, violence, indignities and all?

If your pain is gnawing, you must as well connect with the pain of others too.

No thinking person can deny that the scales on balance are titled against women - in general, at least in India.

Balaji and Temporal,

Women/girls had/have a much better time than men/boys under patriarchy. So, why will they give up all those benefits and riskless life?

They never had to get killed and miamed while hunting. Even today, they make sure to avoid risks.

Sita had a much better time compared to old/sick Jatayu and the Vanars who died fight for her.

It is not about sufferings of any people, but it is about rights about people suffering.

Its the patriarchal mindset (including chivalry) in men which makes them stick to their stand that women are weak, vulnerable and need continous help and support. These men can not tolerate if someone claims that women are strong and independent and hence they can take criticism just like men.

Today, no one has the right to claim immunity from criticism. When Hindus, muslims, conservatives, liberals, men, elders can face criticism. Why can not it be extended to women as well? They also have no right to immunity from criticism.

When feminists and many liberated women term their children as demons, "little monsters" so casually, then whats the problem if they get some amount criticism?

There are thousands of websites and massive newsprint is utilised to show the negative sides of men, elders, whats the problem if 5 or 10 websites do a bit of criticism of women.

sumanth:

you said: Today, no one has the right to claim immunity from criticism. When Hindus, muslims, conservatives, liberals, men, elders can face criticism. Why can not it be extended to women as well? They also have no right to immunity from criticism.

fine no one is immune to criticism now let us take a step away from this:

i see you have you have not replied to this:

as we strive for a just society...a society that treats everyone with equality...regardless of gender, race, caste, religion or labels...one level playing field...for you, me and others!

then and only then these incessant gender wars would be a storm in a tin pot

are you for a just society or for continuing gender wars?

My friend,

While you were hunting your woman was supposed to bring up the children. Neat division of labor no?

And women discovered agriculture. Hence we have the leisure time to discuss this man woman thing. Thanks heavens, the WTO didn't exist. I do not what would I have to pay for the IP.

And did poor Sita asked Jatayu and vanars fight for her?

And did those blokes have to fight any way? And who started the fight? A Laxman who could not appreciate a woman expressing her interest in another man. And his brother, who should have told him that it is her right to feel about the way she was feeling. And restrained his brother in a chivalrous, and patriarchical way. Nope, none of that happened.

The patriarchial Ravan, upset that his sister has been outraged, went on revenge. Does that sound familiar?

And apart from mythology, imaginary ghosts?

i did not hear any one saying that you can't criticize feminists. Or hate women.

And you have been doing that right royally on this blog. and am I happy about it? Yes.

As much you are entitled to criticize others, I guess others have a right to criticize? What's sauce to goose to gander?

I guess no one has an issue, as far i could see about the 5-10 websites criticizing women. The fact they exist shows, they exist.

So which ghost are we chasing?

The fact that someone is engaging shows they are engaging. Not silencing. Arguing. Is also a form of engagement.

If the fantasy is to 'vanquish' people in arguments, then one could be transparent about it.

If one wants to live in an isolated ivory tower of self-made categories and name the home victimhood, then there is no space for genuine argument. Genuine engagement.

self-absorbed, and self-oriented is a state of denial of reality.

I think, the biggest victory of SIF movement would be if we see less suicide rate due to marriage problems for harassed men. I have seen many of our brothers,who were completely shattered, are more confident after joining the movement.
For this, we need to advertise SIF using word of mouthto peers/the ones we meet during court proceedings.

Manish,

Biggest victory for SIF will be the day, the innocent old/sick elders are not imprisoned under false complaints and arrests are done only on the basis of Lie Detection Test or other clear evidences.

I do agree with you that SIF has been able to save many families from suicide, misery leading to death of elders. But only a small percentage of those suffering know about SIF.

Our ultimate goal is to support meek to face the reality and not to change some skewed, twisted minds.


Balaji,

You wrote:
While you were hunting your woman was supposed to bring up the children. Neat division of labor no?

--> What's benefit men get/got from children? Most of them died young (while hunting) in any case. Its the females who lived longer and children looked after them.

In Germany (with liberated women), most men do not marry. Those who marry, do it after 5 to 10 years of cohabitation. Not all married men want to have kids as they just do not see any benefits.

One must not even ask a woman with a child what does her husband do. As most often she may be an unwed mother.

One must see the pathetic German matrimonial advertisements where females (even in early 20s) literally beg saying what all they will offer to a man who is willing to marry them.

Our leader says, this is what going to happen in India as well when women will beg on National Highway to men for being a part-time father for her children.

There is a differnece is in terms of how we treat a male sucide Vis a vis Female sucide.

In a female sucide we try to find some male to pin a blame on usually a husband. Even though statistics conclusively proves that such an assumption if false onthe becuase the rate of sucide amongst married men is higer then unmarried men. where as no such exists for unmarried women and married women. It implies at least 23000 married men driven to sucide. why does it happen becuase there is a kind of mysandrist and controlling attitude against men.

In case of male sucide we try to blame the sucide on the male agains.

Teh diference is stark when we consider the sucides of spouses of Navin Nischal and Rekha
Marital problems existed
Or Gurudutta and Nafisa
jilted lovers , dipression all existed for both of them

IT is just that we have decided to find a husband or lover to always blame.

A Famous rape case in Bangalore that of pratibha , The mother of pratibha found time to blame pratiba's husband anyways.

A sucide note is cry of revenge while a quite suicde is that of hope all gone. 2300o men are driven to sucide without even leaving a sucide note becuase they know that society treats the life of husbands treated viciously by wife as either humour or callously . not as creatures deserving justice. That is why they leave no sucide notes.

Pseudo-liberal journalist bastards,
fxxxking writers,
sociologist morons,
Multiple cl*t feminazies.....

Today, for the first time, I am angry.

Because of them and their blind support to "Legal Terrorism", a SIF member's mother has attempted suicide today morning.

She is at St.Jones hospital, Koramangala, Bangalore.

The war begins.

It will be directed at those terrorists pseudo-intellectuals who support Legal Terrorism against old and sick elders.

(we do not need any sympathy for any terrorists. We will fight for justice and arrest of the bastard female and her family).

There will be no compromise and we will not rest until these pseudo-intellectual pseudo-liberal morons know their place.

Thank God. She is out of danger now.

what about the war?

We are at war against:

pseudo-intellectuals, propaganda elements, unscrupulous journalists/media, writers who feel "legal terrorism" against innocent elders and misandry will solve all the gender issues.

Sumanth

This MIL commiting sucide is all a plan. DO not fall for it. When the MIL knows things are going out of her hand she does this heart-aatack, old age and pretending to suicide. If one wants to end life, one should jump from the 20th floor and rest in peace. Suicide is an act of cowardice.

Trying to sucide and trying to gain sympathy will not win her any brownies.

and should you succeed what will you achieve in the end? at what time and cost? and how will it benefit the 'perceived' aggrieved husbands?

Temporal,

It is their "wishful" thinking that they will succeed. They will NOT. Why not?

1) they have a few dowry takers in their group who are taking refuge.
2) they also have a few guys who have being charged with serious physical assualt on their wives.
3) most fathers in their group do not want to share the responsibiltiy of a parent.

As long as such people exsist in their group and them adopting the mirror-image funda , they can never succeed.

Why India only? I think in India , Indian woman still can assert their legal rights.

In several states of Africa woman are raped on a daily basis by the men of their village and they are helpless. Their souls have been permanently scared. For more information on this watch the Oprah winfrey shows , how her cameras exposed the state of women in africa where they are treated like savages.

Therefore their illusion that woman of the centuries have enjoyed priviledges (scoff scoff) is all wishful thinking and them using the strategy of repeating it again and again till it sounds true is apparently not working. NEver will.

SIF priviledge defination for a woman:

A woman who is a mother taking care of 2 kids , staying at home to care for her kids & husband , WHILE the husband goes to earn the bread.

This scenario acc to SIF is- wife abusing her husband and treating him like a money earning machine.

r

Girls girls girls....a day will come when people will be frightened of girls

They have misused all the freedom that have had.

No wonder when a girl child is born in rural India it is killed.

This is becuses the parents fear the wrath and storm she can create in anyones life.

For more proof and statistics read this link of my dear brother who has put it correctly

http://indianhusbands.blogspot.com/2006/01/from-abla-helpless-to-ghost.html

and decide....no freedom without rules is good freeedom and woman have miused all the freedom thay have got.

Thanks heavens, my mother's parents didn't think like this. Otherwise, I would have been a would-have been and could not have written this post.

I guess they were kind and visionary. So that I could write on DC :-)and engage with Deepak.

I get confused, I cannot imagine the world without girls. Doomsday. We do not need the HIV virus to wipe out the world. Anti-women virus is enough.

One generation and no generation. Shinriko cult? Thanatos?

which rural areas, in Tamil Nadu or in BIMARU states? especially Rajasthan? Punjab?

when your wife files 498 then u wull know

Mr.Neha,

I appreciate your confidence.


Balaji,

We have clear proof that Feminists are indulging in female foeticide.

After SIF campaign, STAR news conducted a Sting operation and found 5 big time feminist doctors taking 4000 to 10,000 to abort female foetus.

One of the feminist concerned chair a session against female foeticide where many big feminists presented papers.

We have got all the relevant information and recordings.

Please answer two simple questions:

1) What punishment do you recommend to females and their parents who file false cases(if proven beyond doubt)?

2) What punishment do you recommend for women who drive their husbands and/or in-laws to suicide?

It has been proven beyond doubt that Feminists and pseudo-liberal propaganda is responsible for female foeticide.

They present such horror stories about women that the society believes that only women face misery and men have a good time. In reality, 3 times more men than women get murdered.

How to encouarage Male Foeticide?

1) Tell parents that Male child has a much greater chance of committing suicide and getting murdered.

2) Society drives male childs to take risks and as a bi-product to get to crime.

3) Tell them, that a male child will entitle them a 3day/4 night Mandatory jail Pass as soon as he gets married.