Kiranjit Ahluwalia: She Was Provoked

saks:

there are two sides to this

a: living in UK where rule of law exists there is even lesser justification to take law in your own hands

b: the mental, physical and emotional torture she suffered at the hands of an abusive spouse resulted in her losing sanity temporarily

for me sitting this side of the fence perhaps it is easy to say that she should have called in help instead of murdering her spouse...i admit this reasily... but at the same time i insist she should not have taken the law in her hands

Temp - I completely agree with what you said. But what led to her husband's murder was not a planned idea...it was more of an impulse action. What trigged those horrific emotions...only she can answer.

Alright. I hope I don't make a mistake in assuming that everybody here wants equality.

Next time a woman subjects her husband to domestic violence and when her husband "listens to his inner voice and believes in his inner strength" and puts an end by killing her....lets see how many people will applaud his action.

Oops, I made a wrong assumption, nobody wants equality here. This is a feministic forum. Hatemonger forum.

rebel sahib:

you are a wise sage!

I am afraid, I can't initiate you temporal. You will have to do a lot of penance to get rid of those desires to support feminists over here.

Come on...laugh....wasn't that funny?

i told you sir you are so wise

Darn, I am unable to climb the tree of 'channa'.

Laugh it off pal....

Rebel: Good point :)

Isn't this the woman who inspired JAG-once-upon-a-time-porn-director-MUNDRA's "Provoked" with Ash? Interesting choice of diretor :)

S

Ok rebel, This forum is as you say.

So got sif forum, better still indianhusband forum and so many more. Why do you want to come here.

So obviously valid eh!.

Murder is vaild jusitfied . I did it becasue of him/her .every murderer says that . what is new of this perticular murderer

As Bharati says, every murderer murders due to some compulsion or reason. Murderers are created by the society.

Murder by Kiranjit is well planned as she got petrol into the house and hid it somewhere and waited for the husband to sleep. It is not done as an act of self-defense.

Moreover, may be she abused her husband verbally for years. Being provoked he hit her. May be her husband was abused by his mother when he was a kid.

All the research using "why" is applied when the culprit is a woman. If we use the same methodology, every criminal can be proven non-guilty.

Men, women, children, elders, all face violence inside the family. Why are we only highlighting the violence faced by females?

Women initiate domestic violence(DV) in 66% of all cases even though they are at receiving end in almost 70% of all cases of DV.

Women are much ahead of men so far as mental violence against husbands is concerned. That drives 22,000 husbands to suicide every year in India. All these abusive females go scot free.

Patriarchal Society considers "protection of women" as a high priority. Thats women often go scot free (even if they kill) or they get much lessor sentence than men for the same crime.

Sakshi,

Long back, it was told to you that Feminists blame it on Provokation, PMS, Stress whenever they kill their husbands and even get acquital.

Christina Hoff Sommers lists many such instances in her book,"Who stole feminism".


Please read this post by you in your blog and your reaction to truth.

http://sakshijuneja.com/blog/2005/10/15/gorkys-views-such-individuals-do-exist/

The mail in that post starts as follows:

How to Improve Gender Sensitivity in India…here are some suggestions…..

1) Women must not be imprisoned even if they kill. They need to be put in reformation homes.

2) As soon as a woman marries, she must get 50% rights onto husband’s property.

..........

"As soon as a woman marries, she must get 50% rights onto husband’s property"

Why do look at things in such a crooked way.

Life is beautiful out there. Enjoy it

I too had a bad experience in life, that has not made me bitter.

Whatever happend to you , why can't you take it as your fate and improve your karmas.

Infact, the type of education (as you have) you can reach places.

Maybe you are successful but there is always place for more to achieve.

Hatred, bitterness will not get you anywhere. They create negative vibes.


Even I have belong to a social group but we are not found hating men all over the place and leaving no stone unturned to express our hatred.
Ever heard of the concept 'give what you expect back'

"I too had a bad experience in life, that has not made me bitter."

How can one turn more bitter when one is already bitterest?

from bittrest to bitter to normal.

Equity Oriented Male Victims of Domestic Violence risk getting arrested when they approach police (in India or in anywhere in world).

A Patriarchal society can not believe that Men can ever be abused by women.

So, Men who are equity oriented face domestic violence because they will not hit back. The men who are MCPs will not face violence by wives.

So, please think, whom are we ultimately encouraging by reward and punish methods.

1)MCP can beat up and get away.

2) Equity oriented will tolerate and in stead risk being arrested.

Will this kind of wrong feedback mechanism, help reduce DV?

Its very very simple tactics.
Snake will die, and the stick will also remain intact.

Gain legal powers, show women as victims, criticise old-fashioned tradition of patriarchy, but not let go the principles of patriarchy-respecting, protecting and providing women.

How smart!!!!

Yes it will help reduce it....by way of expression and expression only.

So much of what you say makes sense...but your applications are all wrong, wrong targets, wrong intentions.

If the intention is wrong, then how will the end result be right. However sound your strategies maybe.

Apply them with honest intentions and see the results.

Some day will be pleasure to talk one on one.

Sakshi,

Please read the very link on "Domestic Violence" that you have put in your article.

The fact, that male victims of DV are standing up all over the world will be quite frustrating for Feminists.

Today, SIF members who face domestic violence (as they are still with their wives due to fear of 498a) carry "Voice Recorders" and sometimes they use Keyboard loggers and Camcoders to capture the evil deeds of their wives.

In a wired world, the truth about DV will not hide. In Jan 2006, Star News showed a 30 minute program in which the Punjabi man had captured the video of his wife brutally beating him up every night. He recorded it for 40 days and went to Men's Rights Activst Ram Prakash Chugh and Star News and was demanding protection. He was hiding in some hotel in Paharganz.

The lying women when contacted sweared that she has never done it and started crying loudly as she knows that tears of a woman sell.

The morons in that Channel were advising that man,"please look, she is tears. Will you forgive her and stay with her?" The lady conducting the program also asked Activist Chugh,"How the hell there can be a Men's organisation?"

So, for all the libertarians in Media, Men's Organisation is unpalatable. They only expect women for ever and hence they feel necessity for women's organisations.

Oouch your long nose hurt me in my eyes Rebel. Watch it.(remember)

Dont butt in.

That was a conversation between me and Sumanth.

Did Sumanth say that he isn't having conversation with me? Then how can you say I was talking to you? Did I address the comment to your name?

Bad attempt. Try some other time, will you?

Did I ever say that I was having having a specific conversation with him. I said "that". What is "that". Do you know.

Did I define "that".

Mrs Desai,

We have counselled thousands of Men, their sisters and old/sick parents who faced Domestic Violence by women in India.

I myself can count at least 200 counsellings I have done in last one year. It made some difference (however minor) in their lives. Their lives are not the same again.

What we have done till now, is already a life time experience to us. We have no other aims. We have nothing else to achieve except occasionally indulging in provocation of hypocrite progressivists.

We know society is reluctant to punish women for any serious crimes (since ages). It will surely change in next 10 years and women will also get equally punished for equal crimes.

Ahhh...just knew that *some* assholes will never fail to make themselves (un) heard.

Mr. Juneja : *Dude* Be enterprising enough to think about a better name, how about your real name?? Oh..ah sorry I understand you are too ashamned.

Sumanth you said

"We know society is reluctant to punish women for any serious crimes (since ages). It will surely change in next 10 years and women will also get equally punished for equal crimes"

Let me ask you one question:

Are not women arrested when a 498 complaint is filed? The old mothers, the sisters , the daugthers....oops I forgot these are your family members, so they should not be arrested.

Let me rephrase it for you Sumanth: WHat you actually mean is:

""We know society is reluctant to punish WIFE for any serious crimes (since ages). It will surely change in next 10 years and WIFE will also get equally punished for equal crimes""



Your'll use & take refuge behind women-gender when it comes to your mothers, sisters etc& how unjustly they are treated by the law when arrested for asking dowry(gosh)....but your complain is the same women-gender is not punished as per your whim and fancy whenever it suits you all because she is your WIFE and someone else is DAUGHTER.

Basically the wife is supposed it be an ATM as she comes from another family plus a doormat.

When the newly wed girl arrives at a new house, she needs to be accepted and be made part of the new family. The mistake is and families break, obviously when she does not fullfill the dowry demands after wedding--the pandoras box opens up.

It is a case of sour grapes.

Women are treated equally in front of the law. After all as per your rantings the women(along with men) are thrown into jail at another woman's complain for dowry harrasssment. So where is the problem?

The problem is when the WIFE(how dare she) asserts her rights and makes use of the law.

Basically you do not want woman to be treated equally, you want to strip her of her legal rights.

Sumanth,
What legal rights is she talking about? Rights to extract money from innocent families by filing a false case on them? Is this what she wants and other women to do? How narrow-minded she is!!!

Its not about who is punished, men or women..its about, why an innocent is punished. Women can't live on her own and still claim, "We have come a long way, and still a lot to be done". Long way in extracting such legal rights to harass men and still a lot to be done...to make men their slaves. If they have a slightest guts, why hide behind these lopsided laws...confront face to face. No, they are spineless and gutless...they can only cry and call for help so that the law will come to their rescue and arrest innocent people.

When somebody puts a false charging on them, that time they will realise how it feels to be on the receiving end. And we are sworn to get these feminists on the receiving end...thats the only way to teach them fair living. A woman who unconditionally, indiscriminately support another woman is a feminists and we are not going to tolerate their attempts to punish the innocent.

[post edited]

If moderators are decided to delete whatever tripe that you say and if this is a feminist blog,then what are you doing here?

Has someone filed a false case on you...then what are you crying about?

Cowards are your folks who do not turn up in court, and plead for a ouside court settlement and recently when one the victims said she would let sif people know that he is asking for settlement(since his family is guilty) he begged to keep it a secret. Is this not coward?

[EDITED-PERSONAL ATTACK]

There is no power on Earth or in Heaven that can make me cry...when you don't know me, don't assume anything.

You are only focusing on how so-n-so person went for an outside court settlement, but you conveniently ignore the issue of false charges....why a woman has to put a false charges? Should we men start putting false charges on you'll? Just so you know there are certain sections in IPC that can be used against women....only because of the respect a man has for women, he would rather give importance to the welfare of the family instead of paying heed to his ego. But that doesn't happen in a woman's case. If she wants something, she doesn't get it, she will run straight to a police station to file a false complaint and cry like pitiable baby.

Whether you accept the truth or not, truth will always prevail and that is women who file false charges on men are cowards and will always remain coward even after atonement. And it seems there are potential cowards in almost everywhere.

Proove it to me it is a false case.

There is no power on earth that can make you cry...watch out your ego man.

Ego ego is the most dangerous.

btw I know you very well, personally too.

Who am I , you will never know.

I can site many instances about how well I know you. But I have to stick to the comments policy which is I cannot reveal info.

Mrs.Desai I hope you crash and burn, or atleast grow up.

Looks like gays are coming to resue each other. Poor mihiri could not take the stress.

Mrs Desai/Neha/498a/Woman/Whatsoever/MultipleIDs/,

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It is very easy to identify, if an article is written by a man or a woman (by the language).
--------------

Man or His Family must not demand Money or Lifestyle from wife or her family.

Same way,

Wife or her Family must not demand Money or Lifestyle from husband or his family.

There is punishment (in Indian Law) for the former, but there is no punishment for the later which is also wide spread.

------------
It is well known that unscrupulous females and their family members are extremely frustrated as their game has been exposed. They know, if people all over India wake up, then no one will marry false 498a girls or their family members.

So, it is expected that some of them will give a fight.......
------------

Mrs Desai,

I understand that you want to provoke SIF members continuously.

You want to show that your have won in the argument so that SIF will get bogged down.

So, I acknowledge you are a great Crusador against dowry. Here are my humble suggestion to you:


1) Please start a website against dowry and extravagant marriages. I promise SIF will pay for it.

2) Please start a Helpline for Dowry victims(if any exist) Even there SIF will help you.

3) Please take a Camera and publish photographs for extravagant marriages in Internet.

4) Get ready to organise a Press Conference to ask for immediate BAN on "Extravagant Marriages". That will send the signal against dowry indirectly.

5) Please arrange hundreds of people in this campaign to Prevent Dowry(if any).

After all, Prevention is Better than Cure.

6) You will agree that only law does not remove a social evil. On Ground social activism is a must. I am counting on you to start nation wide on ground social activism against dowry.

7) You may attend "Vipassana", "Art of Living" and "Landmark Education" to prepare yourself for inner and social transformation.

I am grateful for your sincere efforts for Preventing Dowry.

Do check out this link about the movie 'Provoked": http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1779845,00.html

Can someone please provide more details about whether Mundra really was a porn director? Sigh. This, if true, plus the link above seems like "Bandit Queen" all over again.

sharanya:

jag was not a porn director as i recall...his earlier movies had a lot of nudity...mostly frontal

Jag was a porn director. Here's a list from IMDB

Here are some of the movies I've seen, and yes, they are porn (perhaps Soft Porn would be a better word), whatever he claims they are not:

Shades of Gray
Perfumed Garden
Private Moments
Sexual Malice

Thats just what I've seen :) - his comprehensive list will tell you he's never directed a movie which could be classifed other than soft porn :).

Suyog

suyog:

perspective please! none of those movies listed at the date base are hard(core) porn

soft porn is nudity

hard porn is full nudity, penetration etc

Darn, I got to learn from these people, "How to justify a wrongdoing?" Whether the director has made porn films or cartoons, it makes no difference. Needless to say, Provoked movie has justified that killing a husband isn't crime and should be not be made punishable if the killer is a woman. Why so much hype after this movie? Its just another small-time movie that comes and goes, but the intention behind hyping this movie itself proves that it is trying to send out messages that "don't worry, if your husband is harassing you, kill him, you will go scot-free."

Porn is Porn man :D - softcore or hardocre doesnt make it a lesser porn. I suggest, you get the dvd of Perfumed Garden or Monsoon make the decision yourself pal :)

Suyog

Sumanth
Extravagant marraiges are also the demand of the boys side where he invites even the his kindergarten teachers as all is free food. It becomes extravagant when all these people are invited by guys like you.

if the guy wants he can invite just a few close relatives and friends but he invites the whole world (ladkewala jo hai) and to an outsider it looks like an extravagant marriage.

Go see some wedding album pictures of your sif members and while seeeing the wedding album ask him to identify whose from which side. Make a count. The count will be more from his side. After that ..now the main part...ask him to show the bills.

If you do this ...then I will give anything that you want.

Sumanth, Excellent opportunity is knocking your door. She said, "If you do this ...then I will give anything that you want."

Sumanht loves using the words (if any)
"if any dowry victim"
"if any dowry exsists"

so lets see "if any" if all sif criminals are free from Sumanths inspection as per strict count.

Sorry Rebel...I will not talk to you anymore, Sumath says I provoke his his...(thinking) his..(well you arenot a victim, nor are you a criminal) his..volunteer.

When were we talking? We were fighting, I guess so. And I am a criminal because I am a man. And according to feminists, all men are criminals. And media too is trying hard to criminalise male gender.

Mrs Desai,

Reply to whether you are ready to fight against dowry or not as proposed by me in comment no.36.

People like you only rant.

We SIF guys act on the ground. Our meets (every week) are much greater than any blogger meet ever held.

We offered you a website to fight against dowry and gave you full unconditional support.

What the hell do you want now?

Let DC senior members see how you fight against dowry on ground.

Who knows what you are (in spite of your claims). Who knows you yourself may be dowry taker and also a dowry giver.

SIF does not just fight against false cases. It gives support to victims of "Domestic Violence" by wife and her Goonda parents.

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Men who are not able to get out of abusive relationship make more than 50% of our membership.
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Indian Female stabs husband to death, awaits sentence
and

Rediff article on how Feminists wanted her to go scot free

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Jonaki Ray will be sentenced for voluntary manslaughter April 22 at the Clinton County Courthouse. The crime carries a maximum of 15 years in prison.
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We will not allow any Feminazies to indulge in any mischief now.

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Its EYE for EYE, TOOTH for TOOTH now.
--------------

We will make sure that Female Murderers get very tough sentences in India (as in US).

Sumanth you answer to my comment # 25 and 43.

I have said before also your group gives refuge to dowry takers. Period.

The language of innocent victims speaks volumes.

(out of context: I know when the your meets happen most of you people go gambling and go carting. Sorry am here to do serious work)

Females initiate Domestic Violence in 66% of all cases of DV.

By picturising themselves as only victims and males a abusers, they want the right to murder innocent men and go scot free.

They are already going scot free by driving husbands to suicide.

Now, they want to go scot free even while stabbing or burning husbands to death.

http://web.mid-day.com/news/world/2006/may/137659.htm

"Speaking to the media in Cannes, where she was promoting her new film, Provoked, Rai said, "Have I experienced it? Yeah," when asked if she too had been a victim of domestic violence."

It is very sad when a people like Aishwarya who can easily assert her rights without bothering about what others will say of her, plus she has all the financial resources to have the best lawyer to fight her case.

YET THE CASE WENT LEGALLY UNREPORTED...LIKE MANY OTHERS.

That is the plight of Indian women who are victims of domestic violence & threat in everyday life,moment and second.

I suggest you read again and again to get a clear view of what are statistics:

Statistics are like Mini-skirts - Investigating SIF Claims.
http://desicritics.org/2006/04/15/205633.php


Repeating the same same thing again & again ...is a good theory to make others feel that it is a fact. Try something else.

"Are not women arrested when a 498 complaint is filed?"

Point no.1. In 498 no one arrested, it is arrested when 498A complin made.

Ponit. no. 2.A women will be arrested only when she dare to support or keep any relation to her brother or son.

Point No.3. A women will be arrested for not supporting the Legal terrorism, not for doing any crime.

Point no. 4. Murder,rape, adultrate realtionship, killing the child are better crime than mentioned in 498A. That is the reaosn a women arrested in 498A, but got scot free in all other crime.

Auntie, this is not the question of a women, this is a question of crime and punishment issue.

This is not the question of arrest, this is the question of Dadagri and legal terrorism.

And for that some one have to only have a terrorist or violent mind.

Difference is, if any uncle does that, " that is called Crime"
When a auntie does that that is a award winning job.

Check the history, how uncles had been fooled by aunties and happily prefers to sacrifice thier life.

This is not a New thing, the crime like the story is going on every day, only thing the same had been termed as.....( Edited to save the job of Moderator)

"'No' to domestic violence in the name of marriage."

Wonder, are we really know what is called domestic volence?

Common perception is beating, fighting, blood coming ..etc is called domestic violence.

The Law says, verbal abuse, mental harassement, economical abuse, adultrate realtionshion, sexual abuse, abuse of child and offcourse Physical hitting.

But only thing is all those are punishable to Husabnds and thier mother and sister, and for that no evidence is required, only our aunties own statement is sufficent to establish that our uncles and thier realtive do the domestic violence!!

And form Wife and thier family, it is a right to do the doestic violence.

Some time back some uncle asked, we want domestic violence or domestic harmoney?

Still I wonder, our uncle , aunties want to say "No" to deomestic violence or want to Create More and More " Domestic Violence".

We have to wait to find the answer, how it works.

Some time I wonder, does In India all the husabnd born in a Criminal Family and all the wives brong in a Raja Harish Chadra family?

I think it is true, otherwise how the definitation of domestic violence go for a change!!!

Mrs. Deshi anutie, the word "Dowry is a very interesting Protection tools"- right? Like a safe sex before marrage!!!

Whenever some one will get exposed, just use the word, all her crime will be vanished, right?

ATM machine is not a wife, that is a Husabnd, open the closed door of your bed room and try to see the out side world.

Still, I am wating the list to be termed as "dowry"," Streedhan" and "Sowry".

The Law is used or misused, your comment in this story itself proved, where as the writer or the murder never ever mentioned the murder had been done due to dowry demand...

After all money earning business, Who wants to allow to be stoped?

Treating a daughter and son equally is not a Joke or ordering PIZZA.

A respected and who really cares for thier child, never say Dowry is a problem, yes those pimps always says that Dowry problem is incresing day by day, as they want to cheat thier daughter/sister comfortable life, refuse to give thier own right( equal share to thier parental property)and hide behind the word "Dowry".

Making a daughter self working and support to her to do that, I wonder how many uncle and auntie intereted in reality, insated of just buy a ATM machine in the name of Marriage instead of allowing her to marry her own choice.

Writer this is not a "" Bad word", as the same used by Mrs. Deshi...so no edit required.

Just think of Aishwarya's choice?

Salman, Viveiiik.......

Women indulge in emotional battering of men without understanding that men do not react even if they are cornered and hurt emotionally.

Women are emotionally stronger than men (as society castrates emotions of boys).

Now, a man being "provoked" can give a slap which the woman shouts all around as Domestic Violence.

Some years back, "Thats Life" Magazine found that "Women are Born Liers".

This is Glorification of Homicide, who ever kills needs help, and should not be introduced into the society until he or she is safe to be in a society.

Women never lie, Women never hurt, Women never cheat, women never kill, women are never irresponsible, women never hate.....this is the mentality of the society, by default.

Its high time the society must wake up.

"Its high time the society must wake up."

Rebel uncle time being for get that.
Because our uncles got a lot of enjoyments and feel pround, when another uncels burnt.

Can't say the same about our aunties..

Because Delhi police recently says, when they arrested 12 call girls from Delhi National Highway, women orginasation fight back and able to relese all of them and the SHO today behind the bar for attempet to Rape case.

I feel this whole debate has lost its context.The comment policy says:Personal attacks are not allowed.Yet thats all that is being done.I think its more about the mindset.Men by default think women are lesser beings.That is why the patriarchial system feels obligated to protect the weaker sex.Yet in fact there are all ranges of people in both the sexes(there could be weak men and women).The story of the woman you set her abusive husband on fire,is shocking no matter which way you look at it.A person should not be pushed to the point where they are forced to kill,yet personally I feel a person(be it a man or a woman)cannot be pushed unless they let themselves be pushed that far.I don't know which is more shocking the action of killing or the thought of living 10 years of oppression.It is strange why people in India fight with their spouse to prove their loyality to their family of birth.When frankly, there is not much you can do to change your family of birth because you don't have the authority to.But with your spouse you have the power to make your life together happen in whichever way you choose.This is your present and this is all that you have some control over.If your relationship is so lousy,why not just leave.You be the hero in your relationship and overlook the pettiness of your partner in the larger good of the family unit.And for God sake stop torturing your kids in the name of grand parents and aunts and uncles.All they have is you and all they care about is you.

Don't think the world is against you, the world just doesn't care... so just do ur stuff. Walk out from oppressed relationships, don't just knee-jerk ur emotions by killing, why would anyone want to make a mess of their own lives by killing.

To all SIF clones and Suman th

You all had great plans that to use some of Ash's fame to make your org famous. But alas...what will you protest about when Provoked is realeased???

How can you protest it? How can you protest a true story.... A TRUE STORY?


FYI.....

http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Bollywood/EntertainmentIANS_080606_505.htm

Mumbai: Director Jagmohan Mundhra's Aishwarya starrer "Provoked", which is based on a TRUE STORY, has become hot property among international buyers after its recent screening at the Cannes Film Festival.



Apart from a critical acclaim from the international media, the film's producer, J. Murli Manohar, got a record number of queries from the buyers and sold the film to more than 12 countries in four days following the screening, reports Bollywood Trade.


According Mundhra, the film generated a tremendous response among international distributors after its two screenings.


"We were overwhelmed by the response, especially since it was not a regular festival screening but a market screening. We also had a special screening by invitation for the international media, which worked wonders for the film," he said.


"Moreover, the film has been bought by very unusual international distributors from Brazil, China and Russia, who were eager to clinch a deal for the film's right." The film is releasing Sep 1 and the "Provoked" team is planning a hi-pitched global campaign, in which Aishwarya Rai will actively participate.


"Ash is very happy with the film and she understands the importance of promoting it, which is why she has allotted two whole weeks prior to the film's release for its promotional campaign," Mundhra said.


The film will also be shown at the forthcoming International Indian Film Academy (IIFA) awards starting June 14 in Dubai.



"We sought the Cannes screening to unveil the film to the world media. Now, we are looking at IIFA to serve as an ideal platform for unveiling the film to the Asian media," said Mundhra.

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So you are going to protest a true story huh??? Looks like it is out of your hands...

Yes, This all the stuff by so called great people teach us-

" My dear Child, if you want to live in India and want fame, only one option, save Female Criminals and allow them to kill more and more innocent people"

and we are learning that very fast and understand that today Criminal will rule this country.
So let save Criminals, let save murders.. as they are female.....

Utterly bitterly bitter.

My friends from SIF and the supporters. One can understand the angst of having a bad marriage and a bad partner.

that does not make all women cast in the image of the one woman one lived with.

Nor is the case I hear in these portals, that all men are bad.

Given the patriarchial system, and he bias againsst women, and given the lack of education and participation in the labor market with their skills, women, particularly are positioned on a weaker ground. And hence, the law.

If it has been abused, it is an exception. For every abuse of the law, there are thousands of women who silently take the 'shit' from the families of men.

Man-woman relationship can be beautiful. Two have to work towards it. Unfortunately, the man's family comes as a baggage the man has to handle. Often, men do not handle it. Even when they know it is incorrect. They become silent.

Dowry is a reality. If it is streedhan, then the woman should have complete control on it. Is that the case?

Dowry deaths are a reality. Once I had a situation where I had to admit my mother in a burns ward. The number of young women who were burning themselves or burnt by the families of their husbands, is seen to believe it. It was a disgusting sight.

Balaji...

The parents who gave you the sound upbringing need to be acknowledged for the values they have instilled in you, for it is men-like-you who save the grace of humanity.

And it is men-like-you with clear thoughts invariably will have a peaceful marraige.

It is men like you who can set and bring about gender synergy.

Come on..come my dear uncle....hope at last my unanswered question will be answered..

1. What do you mean by dowry? Give me list, I will ensure the same will not be exchanged in any marriage, if you feel dowry is the problem.

2. What is called "Streedhan". Why we want to cheat our sister, daughter and refuse the "Streedhan" and hide behind the word " Dowry".

3. What about the "Sowry death"?

4. If some one want dowry, why he have to kill his wife by burn? To kill a wife a lot of other method are there, then why he will take that risk and go behind the bar for 7 years along with his mother/sister/child with out any investigation under 304B.
Logic says, those people lost the so called "HOPE" like Prinkya Chopra , either burnt herself or suicide as our goverment says when a female does that, it is great work and all her crime will be diverted to a sympathy.

At last , if we love and really want a comfort life for our sister/daughter/child, never ever say "Dowry" is a problem". This is a vogus word created by some legal terrorist to earn the money in dishonest way, to earn the money from out side country to run thier so called NGO.

yes

If we are money minded and want to cheat our sister/daughter/child and want to enjoy the free meal definetely we have to hide behind the word Dowry and will do all the legal terrorism.

In the IPC, attempet to murder, Blackmalling, extrotion of money, murder.. all LAW are there, then also we need special LAW,

which designed in such a way that will be never used by the real victim,
it made for only to misused..and there is some difference between some misuse and huge misuse.

TADA/POTA had changed why?- any answer?

Why supreme court never enver used so harsh word against any other IPC except 498A?

If the logic is:-

" We can't punish the criminal so let send some pre-budget innocent behind the bar with out any investigation, so that the real criminal will get afrid and will stop the criminal activity..wonder in which logic it written, except some greedy money minded people, who things that they will carry thier money and property after their detah along with them..

A lot more are there.. are you ready to give the unanswered question's answer?

Balaji,

I completely disagree.

The power and control of women by men is a myth.

I do not remember that Dasaratha torturing Kaikeyi or Santanu torturing Ganga.

Society gives a boy/man much tougher life than a woman. Please check all statistics.

Both wife and husband sometimes drive the other to death or suicide.

Society considers males to be disposable. Society emotionally suppressed boys/men for ages. Please do not say that men had power and control. Its like saying a soldier fighting in front line has control and power.

Sowry Deaths of men are more than dowry deaths. Please add proxy murders of husbands by wives to that statistic as well.

Abuse of old and sick by young (including daughter-in-law) is not at all an exception(in any age).

If you consider 80% of misuse of a draconian section of IPC as exception, (where the victims are innocent old/sick elders), I say you have to take a look at your logic and rationale.

Many people like you are conditioned by propaganda and you have drawn conclusions based on this propaganda and not based on statistics.

Society conditions us to react to plight of a women much faster than the plight of a man, whom we demand to be rough and tough. If he is not, then we tell him to get lost. So, in a way, we perpetuate the very outcomes, which we do not desire.

Husband burning is also a reality. But it is rarely covered by any news channel or Newspaper.

If they do that thier Free donations/money earning business/award will be vanish, as exposing a Bad/Criminal wives to be termed as "Anti-Women" .
Let kill thousands of Women in the from of Mother,sister,child to save a Bad/criminal in the from of wife..

After all this is India and the criminal have all the rights to kill the innocent...

sumanth:

if this is a reality there are ways to bring it out:

Husband burning is also a reality. But it is rarely covered by any news channel or Newspaper.

forget the cop out of news channels and newspapers...show us verifiable statistics for both...

[Irrelevant provocation]

Temporal,

Just now I am on phone with one of our ground activists and he is telling me to record the Kannada crime program in ETV in which the wife has poured petrol on husband and burnt him in Bangalore to death and then went for shopping.

We will bring all the videos of husband burning soon in our blogs.

Whatever we have presented now is just tip of iceberg.

Only a small section of media presents the murder and burning of husbands by wives. So, we do not want to depend on media. We will create our own media to show the reality (including videos) of husband burning, mother-in-law burning and father-in-law burning.

dog bites man. no news.

man bites dog, news. as the jungle saying goes.

sumanth:

good....collect the details...do not depend on the media

and then later on the independent writers, students, reporters, activists will investigate the authenticity of your reports and videos just as they would investigate the media reports to arrive at a truer picture

verifiable facts knock manufactured hysteria - always!

How about Draupadi.

Did she 'contract' to marry all the brothers?

Does Yudisthara have the right over her to 'bet' her as the bait?

Did Sita have to undergo the 'agni' pareeksha, to prove her fidelity? No body knows where Rama was, and what he was doing. Did Sita ask him to be checked for his fidelity?

That @$$h0!e, husband of Arundhati or whoever, a leprosy patient, who wanted to have the carnal pleasure of engaging with a commercial sex worker and demanded that his wife take him there? And the stupid woman did that by carrying him in a basket to the CSW?

And that great Bhisma pitamaha, who, for whose bidding, one still has to figure out, won a princess, and not marry her because he gave a promise to whoever? As the customs were.

And about Gargi?

And about Jaratkaruvu? Who produced the brilliant son who saved the progeny of Parikishit from the serpents?

And about Urmila? who had to let go of her life, because her husband is a servant of his brother?

And about that woman, who was cursed to become a stone by her stonehearted, wise, sage husband, because she was 'screwed' by a 'screwed-up', lusty and cheating Indra?

Myths are myths. Even myths tell a story. About reality.

Get real my friend. Selective amnesia, selective reading, reality defying does not help.

I am not denying the reality depicted in ETV. I do not want to be selective. My sympathies for those who were at the receiving of the wrong end of the stick, like the proverbial adage would like one to believe.

I am no 'green behind the years' to be fooled by propaganda.

I use my head. I ask questions. I make my judgments.

I do not go woolly, by venerable myths. And scriptures. However well they are scripted.

If you still believe that our scriptures were 'gentle' with women - check this ..

where did this come from? Sayaneshu Rambha, Karyeshu Manthri, Kshamaya Dharithri etc., etc?

In the bed like the 'oomph' girl of heavens, Rambha, in wisdom like the minister, in feeding like a mother and in patience like the earth!

Looking for a young, beautiful, rich, virgin widow? Like one of the famous characters in Telugu play of the 19th century?

A million cases of men being abused do not equal to a zillion cases of women being abused.

No, the statistics do not impress me, sir.

My only contention - two wrongs won't make a right. As simple.

As I am writing this, I hear from my neighbor's house - shrieks of a woman, I wish I had a recorder to record the woman's cries.

'Do not beat me.'

The inlaws are there. I can hear a cry and a shriek.

The young fellow beats up his wife. regularly. today is another of the days. It sickens me.

The old man beats his wife.

I'm gonna call the cops. Whatever any one thinks.

Sick man, impotent man, if he does not like his wife, he can divorce.

So, Sumanth, it seems reality is playing it out. In ETV for you, in real life for me!

Funny no? Personally, for me, it is disgusting. Nauseating.

I guess you have no sympathies for this woman. I am sure she would have said or done something to deserve the beating from the physically superior man, and the supporting in-laws.

Godess Kali bless all.

Balaji

Did you read comment 65.

Yes I did. Thanks for the kind sentiments :-)

Why your so called 498A does not saved her?
What for 498A had been made? Why the explanation of 498A and Dv act does not come to all News channel as a awareness programe.

Attempet to murder, murder, extrotion, balckmailling LAW are not in IPC? Wonder, a voice recorder oe lie tester, is sufficient to expose the truth, still the LAW have to made on assumption.

That is the reason, the design of 498A is only for misuse not for real use.

Till the time LAW will not be crime based, Criminal will rule the country, and crime will increse, if your this kid is wrong, just check the crime statistics before 498A and after 498A...

That is the reason till date no criminal/underworld don never got 498A, hope they good very good lesson from thier parents and maintain a happy marriage life...
yesterday there was a discussion:-
Auntie: What is the time in your clock..
Uncle: 6.00PM.
After 2 hours
Auntie: What is the time in your clock..
Uncle: 8.00 PM
Auntie: What a surprise, in my clock also always shows the same time as your clock shows. So I think god had made for each other, can we marry?

At last a lot of "Legal prostitutes" makes a lot of drama to gain the sympathy and through thier age old in laws out of home by creating such sounds.

What a great logic!!--"Sick man, impotent man, if he does not like his wife, he can divorce"

But the same logic takes 180 degree U turn here:-
"Sick Women, impotent women, if she does not like his Husabnd, she can't divorce...right?".. so either chose the path of Legal Terrorism or Burn the Husabnd..and that is not a Criminal offence ..right?

Same logic my dadhu also told to my Uncle several time..

But what Dadhu have not told:-

"once our Stupid Uncle do that means file divorce, dadhu's Plan to send all his age old parents/sister/sister's husabnd/sister child behind the bar( Let them stay in corner of the world) and then the real legal Terrorism will start for earning the money."

Yes 2 years back our dadhu was very sucessfull with this logic and earned a lot of moeny, but not today.

Today Uncle prefers to ask his right as a Huasband and does not allow the PIMPS to come in picture, that is called RCR.. dadhu I have to explain or the same already known ...

Dadhu your comment:-
"My only contention - two wrongs won't make a right. As simple."

But does the action and comment describe that?

Little wonder, the story is above for reference as well as to our great Temporal Uncle( who wants to see the Husabnd Burning/husabnd suicide) and the lady( a Hard Core Criminal) openly moving in the society....

Huh!!! So many double standared comment....

Balaji,

Its just a matter of time, you will read our article about the so called Great "Draupadi".

Do you know what Kali did when she stepped on her husband?

Did we ever say, there is no Domestic violence against women?
There are enough laws for them.

We do not have any symapthy for anyone (men, women or elders). Symapathy leads to nothing.

What about Domestic violence against men and elders? Are there any laws for them?

Taking DV against women as an excuse you like to support "Legal Terrorism" under 498a and you even term it as an exception,

Its the pathetic attitudes (Andheri Nagri Chaupat Raja......style ) which has led to legal terrorism.

Just because a few women are suffering, you want to preach hatred against all men.

Chivalrous males are the biggest evils in any society.

They get a kick from their belief that women are weak, vulnerable. Its the woman's vulnerability which attracts them towards her.

Till the time these men feel women are helpless, powerless and weak, there will continue to be were they are.


Power like happiness comes from inside. Real Women's Empowerment is impossible till Male Chivalrous attitudes exist.

Every story, incident we hear can be real or false.

The groom burning stories can be as false as bride burning hoaxes.


Same way, now-a-days it has been habit of many unscrupulous women to shout loudly "he is beating me, harassing me." while she beats up the husband or mother-in-law.

After all who will believe the husband or his mother?

Logic says,

If "A" beats "B" ( Let it be child/man/women/age old)...
"B" keeps Mum in anger or cry in pain or look for safe place....Normaly I do when my mum beat me!!!

Wonder the how the real cry consist of those words like:
- 'Do not beat me.'

On the other way in a drama, yes such words used
- hey "Do not beat me"....I will cut you in picess, you don't know your whole Khandan will go behind the jail, just give your money parts and sit there....

There is a differnce between A Modern Ravan and Modern Laxman.

Modern Ravan take action on the bais of verbal words.
Modern Laxman take action on clear cut evidence.

There is no problem with politicians, judges or even police so far as misuse of laws are concerned. All these categories themselves are not immune from the evil laws and legal terrorism.

Haryana Chief Minister faced it. LK Advani faced it. Union Minister Dasari Narayana Rao is facing it.

It is the journalists, half-baked sociologists, writers, pseudo-liberal morons, chivalrous males and their attitudes which are responsible for the large scale "Legal Terrorism", "Elder Abuse" and Human rights violation across the country.

These mentally challenged, logical disabled creatures and their attitudes must be handled first to put a break to legal terrorism. Fortunately, one can find too many of them roaming in blogosphere.

Today, the middle aged chivalrous males are telling their married daughters, "divorce him or forget us."

The daughers are pleading with tears, "No father, he is not like that. He is sensitive, he is caring." But the father wont listen and he shouts,"He is not sensitive and caring to me. He has no time for me or my wife. Did we sell our daughter? Divorce him and lets teach him and his whole family a good lesson. I have contacts with Deputy police commissioner. I will see how his sister will get married."

These are the kind of males who force their unwilling daughters to file false cases of 498a. The females file the cases and if the guy joins SIF, it is sure he will give a good fight legally and also psychologically. Finally, the female roams around half-mad.

Her Dad finally acknowledges,"I did a mistake."

Now, it is too late. The husband does not want to divorce her as now it is his turn to teach her and her family a lesson. He gets ready to fight for 6 years (till the female is above 30) so that her market values goes to such a low that she has to marry down........

Satyameva Jayate.

Whether it is Domestic violence against men or women or elders, always Satyameva Jayate.

Trust me, Satyameva Jayate.

God knows the truth, but waits......

sumanth:

are you losing faith in the justice system?

Temporal,

Its not just that I do not have any faith in Indian judicial system, I have also lost faith in Indian Democracy itself.

Today, democracy is all about propaganda, brainwashing and then the majority decides to kill the minority (or so called minority) often using formal methods.

There is nothing called human rights in this Banana Republic. The country has gone to dogs.

sumanth:

then what is the alternative?

Redesign democracy based on Von Neumann architecture ;)

The alternatives to democracy will not come from past.

They have to be designed, simulated and then enough nuisance will be created that the politicians will implement them.

backward induction?

it is full of paradoxes

and while there are theoretical possibilities the impracticalities in a billion plus over whelm it....besides - even chaos theory would not work

mind games, not practical:)

meanwhile sufferings go unabated...think of better ways

so what are pushing today?

ah yes foeticide!

repeat, repeat a --- a million times:) ---strategy? or a grand design? or a flaw?

:)

Thanks temporal for your advice.

I sincerely try to understand.

I understand this very clearly. I guess most of the rational ones on this blog do, is my belief.

that 498a can be draconian. Some women use it rather abuse it for their unjust scheming motives. And their 'half-literate' parents abet it. It is unjust. Do i sincerely believe it. Yes I do. Do I have any experience of it? Yes I do.

Any body misusing any law in an unjustifiable manner is unjust. Period.

I can see that you wish to be partisan. No issues. After all you are representing a segment of society with a particular problem. Agreed. And leading with a strategic smart intent and tactical tenacity is visible.

Given your predicament and position you cannot sympathize with women who are abused. Your position is that more men are abused than women. No issues. Since that is your perception. Or probably your reality. Probably your statistics. Therefore you can not.

But is it possible that others whose realities differ from yours, and others' statistics which differ from yours can represent their thoughts and feelings as strongly, and as vociferously as you would like to represent? Or represent?

Or your definition of democracy is confined to your perceptions and your view points? And others are mere Nazis?

And there is no democracy till every one believes what you say is right and let go of their realities? let go of their rights to represent what they think is right?

Somewhere earlier I said it - i shall say it again. Two wrongs do not make it right. That's my perspective. Does it mean that unless I agree with you I do not have a right to express what I feel? What I see? What sense I make of the world?

I do not want to convert you. Nor do I want to be converted without reason. or 'justifiable' reason.

if i can relate to what you feel and say, it makes sense to me - as a human being. if you choose not to reciprocate, it is fine by me.

I would not like be a part of something where I am pushed into a corner and am told - with me, or against me.

i do agree there are pseudo feminists, pseudo marxists, pseudo libertarians. as there can be psuedo everything. that does not make the world pseudo. and every one pseudo. unless i become paranoid.

i have no argument that media inter-'media'tes reality. i have no issues with your rants against media. i have my rants too.

to believe that anyone with an alternative opinion/experience or opinion/experience that is not in consonance with one's own, is sold to media propaganda is specious. just that -specious. that's my grouse.

and i do understand and i believe it is legitimate for partisans to see from a partisan perspective. that is the definition of partisan is it not?

khud ko akhalmand samajhna theek hai. doosron ko be-akhal samajhna - mere samajh ki baahar hai.

balaji:

another impassionate post from you...well done, sir!

with a subtle neumann reference yesterday he hinted at the trotskyist in his thinking

there are two ways of attacking a morbid problem: from within or from without

none easy

digression re 498a:

if i were the aggrieved as a first step i would have attacked the 'non-bailable' aspect of the law as a first step...

"Some women use it rather abuse it for their unjust scheming motives."

- Dadhu, if it is the reality, then there was no problem or any debeate.

- Problem is this LAW had been only misused instead of any real use.( Just check up the design of this LAW and what our Honestselfrespect Indian Women really want).

That is the reason not only Supreme court, a lot of hard core feminist also taken a U turn, but they had been thrown out by NCW and thier associates, let it be Madhu kiswar/ Shobha de/Subhasani Ali...

If the Purpose of 498A to convert a marriage a 100% break up... ok the LAW is sucessfull.

But if the same is to protect the real victim women.. it is totally failed.

Till date if some can show a single couple living happily after 498a, I will be wonder.

Where as I can see a lot of Uncle/aunite's happy marriage had been converted to a 100% Break Up and a lot of uncle/aunite sign the divorce paper with full of tears... wonder when those pimps will stop this legal terrorism.

Break up a family is not due to the fight between uncle vs aunite, it is due to those pimps who want money in dishonest way.

Till the time the same is not accepted, we will only move in dark and the crime will increse.

"Given your predicament and position you cannot sympathize with women who are abused.".. this is not the predicament for you itslef?

Are our mother/sisiter/daughter are not a women?

- Here the difference comes.

The meanning of a women means only a role of wife/daughter in law.. as per LAW and those people belive .

We belive the role of a women... a mother, a sister, a daughter also.

The problem is lack of awareness what is the real design or 498A/304B/Pota or Tada and waht is the evidence act...

Once the same disclosed, people get nacked immediately, till the time prefers to be blind and start cry after getting the Blood cancer in the form of 498A/304B/Pota or Tada.

2 years back, media also not even brother to talk to husabnd family in such cases, but today little change and a alarm, it is upto those so called women activist to decided, waht they want a war betwwen Husabnd family vs Wife family or a war Criminal vs Innocent.

Verbal abuse, mental harrasement, economical abuse ..etc is not the power or capalibility of only one section...if so the LAW is perfectly fit for that.

All Husabnd produce= From a Criminal .
All Wife produced = From a Raja Harish Chandra family.

"are you losing faith in the justice system?"
-------
This the bigest problem ,just diverting the real problem and show a problem and to solve create another problem...!!!

Some example:-
1. Supose Dc makes a rule, who ever run naked in the open resturent will get Rs.1000/- Now if some one does that, the balme to be on Justice system.Making a LAW and tie thier hand, and then say it is the failure of justice.
2. Justice system ask some check and pwoer in thier hand to punish the Criminal, but Law maker say.. go to hell we know better LAW than you. It is Like the fight between a COOK vs Eater and the eater expect the cook should deliver every day a tasty food.
basically, LAW commision had given a details report to improve the Criminal Justice system along with use of Technology for often, but LAW makers know, if that happen the real criminal will get punishment and that is the reason they make blind the whole nation, by using
" Women is a weaker sex"- so need a wohle sale free lincence by showing the poor girls story and the same to be misused by POWER Baby.( Like Rakhi, Preeti Jain..etc)

" Dowry is the bigest problem in India"- But the dowry giver is not a criminal...as double standered between the " Streedhan" vs "Dowry".

As a result during marriage it termed as "Streedhan" and when the dispute comes it converted to " Dowry" and forget about " SOWRY".

As a result people in Blind waht is Dowry?

They do not know if you do not take a Glass of water from your Wife parents, still 498A/304B is applicable on you.. that is the design of such Legal terrorism Tools.

Result... More break up of family, more crime, more Single Parenting system , More Prostitutes and Pimps...
Let wait and wath for 22nd century also, as we have seen allready 21st century...

Will there be any difference between a Animale life and Human Life?

As a Human we have to decide that only.. then only we can say " Yes we are a real Human"

or other option"-

" Yes we have taken the Mask of a Human, but like to live a Animale life".

Sometime back SIF-the men activists had claimed that they will have this movie BANNED. It has already realeased in London and is having a gala realease in other countries too.
What happened to the 5000 ever growing activists?

there's no need for banning the movie when you have a wannabe actress as its main protagonist the movie will die a natural death

wannabe actress---you must be joking.

Question is not your opinion-if that matters. I want those people with bogus claims to execute what they have said. They had one year to do the needful.

They have over 5000 increasing members.

They have funds.

They are the mirror image.

They have all the resources and have the powers.

What is stopping them?

I am not a huge fan of Ash, but she actually did a good job in the movie.

Ban a movie? About a true story? Shall we just ban history then as well? Aiyo.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about domestic violence, about the statistics, about what really happens. If the women could just up and walk away, wouldn't they? It is just not that simple. The men who abuse make sure the women are isolated from others, have no financial resources, and have no self-esteem left.

Why do men who are not abusers get so upset about this kind of thing. If you are not hitting women, raping them, beating them.. why are you afraid of justice for those women who are victims? Do not tell me that women use this as a weapon against men. Yes, I am sure in small numbers that it happens. But I was a rape crisis counselor for a long time. Do you know how many women never come forward? I have seen women who are bleeding and beaten and torn beyond recognition who are too frightened to go to the police. I have seen women even in that condition try to get a conviction and cannot. The most likely result is... nothing. They are not helped. Not here, not in the US.

So really, this "cry wolf" mentality that somehow men are being victimized by women taking a stand is utterly ridiculous. do I condone murder? no. but I can see how Kiranjit ended up where she did.

Aaman as an old partner in your intellectual forays I beseech you to exercise editorial privilege and stop this exhibition of very soiled linen for aesthetic reasons.

And which linen would that be?

I see your point may not be linen at all.

Now I'm all knotted up