Indian Engineer Abducted by Taliban Found Dead in Kandahar

There is no news about the reaction from the Bahrain based company that employed Suryanarayana. Typical of the Middle Eastern firms that treat their staff in so cavalier a fashion. I am sure the family will receive no benefits even tho Suryanarayana died while on duty.

And ofcourse no single Muslim cleric has condemned the action. Hypocrites.

It is only the third incident.. what is so great about this?

Why the f*** are you getting so melodramatic about it?

It is only an aberration.

Indian Govt must make sure that Indian Men leave all "terrorist states" including Afganistan.

Men have taken enough of RISKs and "Sufferings" since ages. They have done enough of protecting and providing.

In return, the Indian society and family system drives them to virtual death traps.

Unfortunately, Indian Men still live in 16th Century and believe in taking grave risks for feeding women, children and elders.

Finally, the same society (full of so called moderate morons) backstabs them, terms them murderers, rapists and terrorists.

By spending money equivalent of Rs.10,000/- (effective cost to kill a man), taliban have successfully hijacked the whole nation's energy/mood and TV/Media Air Time of hours (costing crores of Rupees).

hearrt wrenching pictures'...Ha..sickeningly melodramatic..hundreds die every day in India. Why should this death be different? Because it is flashed on T.V. 50 times a day and you saw it? Show your emotion on other issues..stop attracting attention by giving this hype.Did it matter to you if a woman was forced to commit suicide/sati/? did you wince then? No. Because t.v did not feature her.

What double standards!!! Why is a mans death more news worthy than a poor womans? Is not every human life precious? Why horror is not expressed for them?

This is shocking. I thought the Taliban was a weak force now... but there are still some more remaining to be polished off...

May his soul rest in peace.

It is either desperation or idealism that makes people go work in hazardous conditions when other similar jobs are available in safer climes

Hey Sudeepa, just because other deaths and grieving families are not shown or covered on tv or by the media, doesnt make this one less heart wrenching.

Also remember people have their own lives to live, and once something is out of the media it fades from the collective memory of the public. About, the sati and deaths of poor people, its bad, but a lot of people dont know about it. So it doesnt mean that they are hypocrites cos they feel sympathy for this particular family.

And even if it is 'only the third incident', there is something about any unnatural death; accidents, farmers' suicides, anything. Like u urself said, every human life is precious. Obviously its nothing great, but it is news worthy and our attention worthy.

And being kidnapped and beheaded is not an aberration.

siddes,

it is the fact of some peoples attitude towards'selective grieving' which is hypocritical.. either you feel for humanity as a whole, or do not.. not that you feel for what is visually available..it speaks of an intelligence which is basic and hardly evolved. Was there not an occasion to have shown sympathy? or is it that a villager is not worth wasting time over? women are most famous for being averse to women..even sati proves that.. so it is not really surprising, only worth condemning.

Are you condemning the article, the writer, or the event?

so finally Aaman you do arrive..for the writer for the article or for the event?

did not see you too on the women s articles of deaths asking the same question..selective loyalties?

or a mans death is a worth a lot more..so predictable

I can't see a connection between Pervez Musharraf's interview with "The Guardian" and the tragic incident that took place in Afghanistan.

Sudeepa, do you think if a woman was beheaded in Afganistan, it would not evoke simliar reactions?

Are a representative for the Taliban by any chance?

Sumanth (& co.)

yes a man lost his live!

and you lost no opportunity to jump in with your agenda!

Men have taken enough of RISKs and "Sufferings" since ages. They have done enough of protecting and providing.

(these 'risks' and 'sufferings' would not perchance relate to marriage woes?)

***

shame, shame, shame

forgive me please

but i see this as a loss of human life caught in the internecine web of Afghan politics - of third world politics -- of US political fallout

unless proven otherwise mr suryanarayana was an innocent human being caught in a complex web

my wishes of peace and comfort to the family

'People with agendas have tunnel vision' (Shield- FX series);)

yaar tell me!

i do understand that men as well as women are not entirely innocent -- that is par for the course

we are all a mix of good, bad and ugly - that is what makes us interesting

but sheesh


to sound myopic bleating at every opportunity is just a travesty and gets my goat


and i had just returned from a wonderful afternoon reading -- rina read that poem i pasted yesterday -- the one about poetic pleasures...maybe i shall write about it?

t, martyrdom is the biggest turn off and those who fall for it are foolish.

Er....that was in response to sumanth's view of the indian man is burdened by his family.

Women too do their bit for their families whether at home or out in the world. To believe that the Indian man is sacrificing himself for his family sounds akin to self- pity.

All relationships are based on give and take. Being forever on the giving end is a sign of an unhealthy relationship and at least in my books its giver or the martyr who is to be blamed as individuals do have the choice to walk away.

The death of the Indian Engineer clearly reflects that the Indian government is not protecting or giving stern travel/work advisory to its citizens and this individual, after all, did go to Afghanistan by choice.

AkaRoundPeg: The Bahraini company announced monetary compensation for the engineer's family yesterday afternoon.

Arun, SidDes, T, Dee, thank you for your comments and for responding to Sumanth's and Sudeepa's comments. This post brought out the news and the background of the taking of a human being's life in Afghanistan. That's is all it was meant to do. No other agenda. Debates as to whose life is more important - whether a man's or a woman's (or who suffers more, whether a man or a woman) are useless unless society as a whole can think about this issue. Society cannot afford to - a major portion of it is busy trying to figure out where the next meal is going to come from. In the meantime, all we, the rest of us, can do is to empathise with those who've lost their loved ones. I do think we have the freedom to that in the ways we choose to without ten other people standing in judgement.

Rehman, the Musharaff quote gives some background as to South Asian politics vis-a-vis the war in Iraq.

"Debates as to whose life is more important - whether a man's or a woman's (or who suffers more, whether a man or a woman) are useless unless society as a whole can think about this issue. Society cannot afford to - a major portion of it is busy trying to figure out where the next meal is going to come from. "

Not making sense at all.. Society as a whole should think about the issue,, you say. and immediately follow with.. society cannot afford to..a major portion is trying to figure out where the next meal etc etc..

Secondly where are you in all of this .. in the society or out of it?

The point was the emptiness of your showing promptness as if winning a race in copy pasting a news here, with artificial terms of sympathy , while 90% of the article was only quoting some news agency or another.. was a total sham.

news items are available all over the web.. what was your contribution to this article? First to report??

"I do think we have the freedom to that in the ways we choose to without ten other people standing in judgement."

Oh so rules are different for you on Dc.. privilege for being the free editor? While the rest of the bloggers can get spammed or attacked at whim, because freedom of speech and all that, but you do not wish to be judged???

And of course you will thank those who came to your aid, the lambas.They rarely condescend to rally around others. Quite a group here.

Human life is precious. When a crime is reported, irrespective of the gender, the crime should be condemned..does not happen on dc..is the reason of my post..

Your choice of who you choose to grieve for is what shows what you are about. whether a story with media hype or a person unlucky even in death. Hypocrisy is never difficult to recognise.

AkaRoundPeg, you wrote in #1....
"There is no news about the reaction from the Bahrain based company that employed Suryanarayana. Typical of the Middle Eastern firms that treat their staff in so cavalier a fashion. I am sure the family will receive no benefits even tho Suryanarayana died while on duty."

I heard they got Rs 2 million and free education for all the 3 children. Well what can I say, you were so wrong to jump to that conclusion.

And Sudeepa, I think, you're alone in this matter. Maybe you have Sumanth for company. But the rest at DC knows it's futile to argue against your cynicism. You will never reconsider your views, so why bother?

I am glad the Bahraini company compensated the family. TI guess I spoke too soon!

sudeepa # 19:

news items are available all over the web.. what was your contribution to this article? First to report??

if it is news only you seek go google news

the point of bringing breaking news on Desicritic is all too obvious:)

BTW, Desicritics is News plus opinion, and the ability to comment on the news - your viewpoints are interesting, but not to the point that the news should not be reported on.

"Rehman, the Musharaff quote gives some background as to South Asian politics vis-a-vis the war in Iraq."

Ok, But I thought we were talking about a poor man killed in AFGHANISTAN.

Rehman, meant Afghanistan, of course.

Updates:

-----
1) 20lakh compensation announced by company. Another 5 lacs by the Chief Minister.

2) Second wife arrives with kid to claim a portion of the kitty.
-------

Why the hell these women do not work?

The fact that women want to marry up and are reluctant to work, makes men to take bigger risks. This guy was already working at Tata Teleservices as a communications Engineer. For providing lifestyle for the family he went to Bahrain and Afganistan.

In the agricultural age, women most often used to work (in fields or in family professions like weaving, making oil, making pots etc). We must note that in those times there were no contraceptives and women often can have as many as 5 to 10 children. All that changed in industrial age as women stopped working and invented excuses to remain in home just to take care of kids. The husband has to buy huge amount of insurances to keep the so called happy family safe and secure.

A so called home maker (without a child) has got simply nothing to do. Maid servant "Radha" will do all household chores and also take some bossing from the Home Maker lady.

-----
Like a coconut tree, a Man can provide (money) even when he is dead (like Doctor Daneeka of Catch-22). The whole insurance industry is built around it. Just like the story of Dr.Daneeka in Catch-22, a dead man can sometimes be more valuable to the family, than when he was alive.
------

I can see the whole focus of the plight of Surya's family is around his wife and two daughters. Because, these are the people who can cry. The 7 year old boy is looking shocked, silent, expressionless and has got no tears. His feeling will not be considered by many in a patriarchal society. A boy can carry the scares much longer than a girl (mainly because, he will supress it all and hence get it internalised in his mind).

Almost all the highly funded Gender Research is on women and girls. None of the funds is allocated for any research on behavioural aspects of boys or men. Still, everyone claims that its the boys and men who need the fixing. Then, they should better do research on boys/men and why the hell they are not interested in that?

sumanth:

you are so wise

even with your blinkers!

carry on -- don't let sanity come in the way

"Human life is precious. When a crime is reported, irrespective of the gender, the crime should be condemned"

Sudeepa i completely agree with you on this. But my point is we aren't hypocrites if we don't know about it. And my life is infintelly more important to me than anyone elses. Its basic animal/human instinct.

When I go about my life, i worry about things that will affect my well being, my interests, everything about me and my loved ones. When i see something bad on tv, my sympathies are with the people concerned, but over time, I, myself and me takes precedence. So i forget these things.

Again something happens, my attention is diverted, but i finally come back to the same old things; where do i go to eat, why wernt my bonuses credited to my account, how do i pass the next 3 hours, what gift do i buy for my girlfriend etc etc etc.

Now like it or not, these mundane questions ARE more important for me than the very serious issues of farmers' deaths. The brain says i am an asshole to think like that, but i know its true for most of us.

Once i take care of myself, or am contended with what i have, i ll be in a much better position to think about the shit happening around me.

THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME A HYPOCRITE.

And about ur copy n paste allegation, atleast Sujatha took the trouble to do it, and that alone lets us discuss it here.

The wife has apparently attempted suicide

Manjula consumed phenyl at her residence in Malkajgiri locality. She, however, was immediately rushed to a hospital, where her condition was stated to be out of danger, according to police.

Her attempted suicide came after one woman, identified as Swapna, told TV news channels that she was Suryanarayana's wife.

Swapna claimed that the engineer had married her in Warangal, about 200 km from here, five years ago and she had a one-year old child from the marriage.

Manjula had threatened on Saturday to commit suicide along with her three children if the government failed to secure safe release of her husband.
...
Family members said the widow attempted suicide following the allegations made by the "second wife".

"Manjula had threatened on Saturday to commit suicide along with her three children...."

Well, how can she take decision on behalf of her children(about suicide)? How did she know the children really want to commit suicide?

There is no difference between murdering someone and murdering one's ownself. When one can think of murdering one's ownself, then it becomes bit natural for that person to think of driving another bunch of innocents (nearby) to death as well.

Is media hype(& attention) increasing the level's of sorrow?

The family comes to know about Surya's death in a "Breaking News" flash immediately after they returned home from Chief Minister's residence.

I remember one similar instance during Kargil war. Mr.Sahu, one of the commandos in the Chopper, which went down (due to Stingers)died alongwith other soldiers in the Chopper. His parents(in Orissa) got the news of his death at 9:00pm (at Dinner) on Breaking News in TV.

I do not want to conclude anything about Mediaah!!

Sumanth, there are lots of conservative Indian men who dont want their wives to work. Fact is even amongst the lower classes many of them are 'proud' that their womenfolk dont have to work.

Also bringing up kids is not an easy feast especially with the over burdened education system being the way it is. Most mothers spend their time teaching their kids at home since not all can afford the tutition fees.

With the onset of nuclear famlies and globalization when both parents work most children turn into latch key kids. Then there is the double income trap that plagues the combined income.

On one angle people talk against feminists (career oriented women) and on the other hand bitch about those who stay at home and take care of the little ones.

We seem to be damned if we do and damned if we dont.

Second wife?.....ahem...

Sumanth probably agrees with Fox News characterization of 'suicide bombers' as 'homicide bombers'

Deepti,

You wrote:
"there are lots of conservative Indian men who dont want their wives to work. Fact is even amongst the lower classes many of them are 'proud' that their womenfolk dont have to work."

In the lower classes and in villages, the women do a lot of work. Most of our assumptions about lower classes and villagers may not be correct. Most maid servants, who do Seva to great "Home Maker" women (in India unlike in West), come from lower classes.

So many women participated in Indian Freedom struggle. They must also have children.

I know so many cases where the women (who have studied Engineering with good marks) do not want to work. The husbands try their best to convince them as they feel the wives will lose her educational skills and capabilities, if she does not work.

So, my perpeption is that most educated women do not want to work where as uneducated and less educated women do work (and work hard).

A woman must alway retain the capability to work. Why should a woman, who has spent 16 years studying let her skills go waste? So, the question is not about double income, but it is about retaining one's own skills.

Nuclear Family is our own creation. It can be questioned in a post-industralisation era. Many futurists have predicted long back that we will slowing going back to joint family(or its variants) with statements like,"Nuclear Family has no meaning when there is no Nucleus."

So far as some so called conservative men are concerned, they can be repaired if Men's Studies/Research is funded. Then, we can find some magic Mantra to make them liberal without indulging in reactionary "Male Bashing".

Its is a matter of perception then. I think bringing up children itself is a 24/7 job which you probably think is an easy thing to do.

If the men arent happy with their wives for whatever ever reason then leave. Plus lets not forget that the kids arent immaculate in their conception. Men share equal responsibilities for bringing them into this world. If they are bread winners ( a term I abhor) then there is the bread maker (the house wife, nanny, maid, lover etc all rolled into one)

I could give other examples as I did previously where the educated women worked equally hard but come back home to take care of the family while the husband slobbers on the couch.

The reaction I got from men on this site and mind you they are all liberal men was that no one was holding a gun to their heads and they could leave their husbands.

Well, same goes for these men who are bitching about their so called highly educated, lazy wives- if you arent happy then leave them.

As far as joint family systems go, well there are those who do see a lot of benefits in it and others like me who think it infringes on individual freedom.

Its a case by case issue just as marriages are. My grouse is that two wrongs dont make a right. To stop blanketed Male Bashing please dont follow Blanketed Female Bashing. It serves no purpose.

blanket bashing is a hate crime in some circles

so

according to blinkers inc. mr. suryanarayana headed to afghanistan so his wife could be the beneficiary?

where do they sell those crystal balls? mine is a fuzzy from overuse?

t, the first or the second wife?

(...and the media can have a ball!)

i don't know dee...wait till someone from m/s blinkers inc. directd me to a new crystal ball maker

"I could give other examples as I did previously where the educated women worked equally hard but come back home to take care of the family while the husband slobbers on the couch."

Yes. You may be right here. On the otherside, most fulltime working Indian women do not spend a single penny for household expenses. They keep all their money to themselves or send to their parents and at the sametime expect the husband to spend all his money for her lifestyle. These women even refuse to pay for an apartment bought in joint names. They say, it is the duty of man to spend money for the house.

Some men are also wise and they decide what to do (to such a woman) even though they may be cooking food for years before marriage. If woman applies patriarchal principles on man, the man will also do the same.

"My grouse is that two wrongs dont make a right. To stop blanketed Male Bashing please dont follow Blanketed Female Bashing. It serves no purpose."

Yes. You are right. Two wrongs do not make a right. But, is there any other way which can stop "Male Bashing"? If yes, please let us know.

We tried our best for years and finally found that "tit for tat" is the most optimal method after reading the article by two Nobel Laureates on "Rationality of Irraltionality" (in game theory). Now, this model is working better than our estimates.

We have no complaints against women who indulge in "Male Bashing". It does not pain us or any men in general. We are used to it. We only want these same women and society to learn to take "Female Bashing" positively.

"Well, same goes for these men who are bitching about their so called highly educated, lazy wives-if you arent happy then leave them."

The conservative, patriarchal Indian Legal system does not allow people to leave each other for at least 5 years. That is valid, even if the couple got divorced in US. The Indian courts do not recognise the mutual divorce+alimony in US, but it expects US to respect all such Indian Laws.

Its like two donkeys ties with a 3 meter rope and declared happily married ever after.

one would see many men having second wives like this in India (which is illegal).

Men are not happy with their current situation and bearing relationships outside marriages all over India. This has become usual trend. They can't leave first wife, in threat of dowry law.

Whereas, in the west also, one would see many men having second wives. Difference being legal.
As there is no threat and happily men leave bad or incompatible woman to go for other woman. same thing with western women too.

All cultures can live happily as long as laws governing them are appropriate.

We tried our best for years and finally found that "tit for tat" is the most optimal method after reading the article by two Nobel Laureates on "Rationality of Irraltionality" (in game theory). Now, this model is working better than our estimates.

the only opponents sumanth and his group faced so far in his campaign are "Indian un married guys" or "married guys outside India".

This group were always been supported by "Indian married men". All It need for unmarried Indian guys is to taste relationship of Indian 498a women. This is where the problem is.

If the Indian woman is so bad and her legal henchmen out to get each and every Indian man then why do Indian men still marry?

By promoting Female Bashing what does society stand to gain? An eye for an eye and the world will be blind.

Solution is simple- Stay away from our gender then. We have been considered to be devious, manipulative harridans and down right evil by most religions.

You say Men are used to Male Bashing I say We women are used to being maligned and suppressed.

As I said before - its a matter of perception.

Yes Anil,

We are fans on Aumann and Schelling who got Nobel Prize(economics) last year for Madman Theory.

They have mathematically proved the Madman Theory. It seems, in some situations it is optimal to be "deliberately" mad and we found that it works.

Thanks for finally understanding one of our working models. SIFians are the only guys/gals who are experimenting with this theory in India.

Next question is, can we use "Madman Theory" to eliminate corruption or stopping female foeticide in India? May be we should mix it with chaos theory and work out a composite.

I am planning to get to MATLAB.

By the way, TOI is suddenly in love with us and it is terming us as "Crusaders".

TOI:Crusade Against Act

"If the Indian woman is so bad and her legal henchmen out to get each and every Indian man then why do Indian men still marry?"

Yes. Thats the choice we want to create for Indian Men. At present, Indian Men and their parents are in 16th century.

Under 498a, it is not eye for eye. But a complete smashed face for having humility and being nice to people.

"Solution is simple- Stay away from our gender then. We have been considered to be devious, manipulative harridans and down right evil by most religions."

This works for women as well. If all husbands are terrorists(as said by a great lady), then why women marry and create husbands?

Yes, finally, everything is a matter of perception.

---------------------------------------------
I do not know a single SIF male member who married again. Even after getting out of
litigation.
---------------------------------------------

Err.. crusader is not exactly an affirmation of love. At the end of the crusades the crusaders lost. I thought some one well versed with game theory would know their history.

As Robert Lindner seyz

"It is a characteristic of all crusades that the psychopathic element rises to the top"

The Crusaders were a pretty bad role model, IMHO - a bunch of paid rapacious mercenaries whose ill-effects we still feel 800 years on.

"Female Bashing vs Male Bashing"

Why we want to make both equal?

We know that literary artists play a big role in conditioning minds of people. At present, these "writers" are indulging male bashing or spreading Misandry in Schools/colleges.

We find the number of such writers to be between 5000 to 10,000. We want to mark them and disarm them.

These misandrist writers will lose their creative rants once they come across SIF and our literature. Creativity goes with truth(perceived truth).

One can not be lier and genuinely creative at the same time.

We do not want to be nice to these misandrist writers(male/female). We do not want their support which is of no use to us in any case. We only want to disarm them and bring them to path of truth.

We believe, finally truth will win. We also work for complete gender equality and freedom from Patriarchy for all.

I do not know a single SIF male member who married again. Even after getting out of
litigation.

or the women have smartened up?

maiN ka karooN raam
mujhay buddha mil gaya

During the time Crusades, complete Spain was still under the control of Arabs (only to be liberated in 1490 by Isabella and Ferdinand). If Crusades had not happened, Turks would have overrun Europe by 1300 ad.

SIF also wants to "vanish" once truth prevails.

No movement or ideology must outlive its tenure. That was true of the Crusades and that will be true for SIF and also Feminism.

The second law of thermodynamics dictates that everyone and everything ultimately loses.

OMFG! You call that a liberation? Ever heard of Spanish Inquisition you moron?

And I don't think the ideology of the Crusades really went away - the current Pope's previous job was Grand Inquisitor, I believe:)

t's the first law of air bubbles
they burst sooner than later

t's second law of air bubbles' direction
they flow with the wind

t"s third law of air bubbles creed
simple- here today gone tomorrow

@Aman: I thought it was young Inquisitor :)

No, he was the Cardinal at the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - what a career path - Hitler Youth to Grand Inquisitor to Pope!

its funny most comments here seem to be ending into male vs. female debate. can the moderators do something about this?

I would disagree with Sumanth that SIF does not have people who married again. I know of many who have girlfriends marry etc.

But I am also not clear as to why should suryanarayana's wife try to make the decision on behalf of her children to commit sucide. Is it becuase women are kind of brought to belive that children are their CD collection to be destroyed at will.

Even if govt gives compensation Suryanarayana is dead and he is unlikely get it he is dead

I would applaud his wife if she steps up and takes economic care of children . After all Suryanarayana used to of children + 1 adult. Should not be difficult to do so

or all belive in 21st century women are incapable of doing so and hence need money by someones else?

OF course now the spectacle has increased with two women fighting over the money of a Dead man .

You can change the direction of the conversation if you like.

What do you think are the Taliban's chances of coming back to power? What would have been the media coverage if this was an American instead of an INdian?

If you marry two then obviously Afgansitan is safer.
What would you choose Two wifes or taliban ?

The Taliban's chances of coming back are next to nothing. It is almost a spent force. It's financial and political backers (aka Pakistan and Saudi Arabia) do not want anything to do with them. It seems at this point all they can do is to attack hapless civilians who have no stake in the war.

About American lives vis a vis Indian lives, we have to remember that a lot more American civilian contractors lost their lives in Afghanistan than Indian nationals.

It may seem that American hostages garner more media attention but it is because most of the media where we get our info from is American. Also any kidnapping of an American never made front page in the Indian media. The media just caters to its audience.

Women forced to marry bigamists as single men refuse to marry due to propaganda by SIF :).

Atleast true for Western men according to Rutgers study 55% of men do not want to marry due to fear of family laws

the americans would have gone in with their armies and fancy equipment and bombed out taliban from the frontier areas of waziristan.
as it is the borders between afghanistan and pakistan are artificial ones like the ones drawn in the indian sub-continent.

I could write an exhaustive piece on Thermonuclear Dynamics and the discussion I am sure would still be inevitably dragged into a never ending Male Vs Female debate.

I guess all you SIF'ers should be hailed as the new age ALCHEMISTS!

Hey you give me more credit than is due .
I am not tha good
Try the talk on Java Widgets, Benfits of Factory patterns over Abstract factory patterns . Seeif I can bring it to that