OPINION

The Bride Burning Hoax

April 19, 2006
Sumanth

About a week back, I promised that I would prove that "Bride Burning" in India for dowry is a hoax. In this regard, I had posted an article on dowry deaths on Desicritics, as bride burning is a subset of dowry deaths.

Firstly, we will look at the definition of bride burning.

"In bride-burning, a husband or the family of the husband douses the man's wife with kerosene, gasoline, or other inflammable liquid, and sets the woman alight."

Many enlightened Indians, especially in the field of literature have felt proud over the years that thousands of Indian women are burnt for dowry. Many more finished their PhDs on these dead women. Many wrote wonderful books. If these unfortunate women had not died, then these socially conscious people would not have made money, got awards and recognitions. (Link)

Western society feels that Indians are specialists in bride burning. It will not be strange if a middle-aged European woman looks at an Indian girl in a tram in Europe and feels relieved that at least this girl will escape from "bride burning".

Recently, at the India Today Conclave, Suketu Mehta and Feminist Naomi Wolf (of anorexia hoax fame) spoke on the Topic: Can Power Feminism talk to Power Machismo? Rohan Sippy was the moderator. The other speakers in the Conclave included Gerhard Schroeder, Nelson Mandela, and Queen Rania of Jordan among others famous people. (Speech Suketu, Speech Naomi)

Suketu in his speech:

But the Westerners are also partly right. Last year, five thousand women were burnt alive because their families couldn't give the dowry their husbands' families demanded. In the last century, fifty million Indian girls were aborted or killed immediately after birth, for the simple crime of being female.

Lies and misrepresentation of facts will not help any society. We will return to the female foeticide statistics and its root cause in some other post. The fact that an enlightened person like Suketu Mehta can talk about 5000 wives being burnt in India will make any one of us angry and cry for blood of "every" man. In fact, one "Tsunami Oriented" Indian feminist blogger shouted for men to be boiled in oil for bride burning.

According to National Crime Bureau, there are 7026 dowry deaths "reported" in India in year 2004. About 5000 of these cases are "dowry suicides". So, the murders are about 2026 in number. These murders are carried out by stabbing, by hitting, by strangulation, by pushing from a building, by poisoning and by burning etc. Women can also commit suicide by burning themselves and that is not "bride burning" as per the definition. Here, we must also note that men use more violent methods of suicide than women.

Save Indian Family (SIF) puts the burning of wife by husband at a figure of 150 for dowry and also other reasons like anger, suspecting infidelity etc. The burning of women by husband and his family members together can be a number below 40. Interview of a woman, who is burnt 70% or more, making a statement against her in-laws will always be much more sensational for media than the case of a "dowry suicide". Even though, Indian Crime Reporters in TV Channels show us so many bogus dowry death cases as genuine ones, somehow they are not really able to get bride-burning stories (genuine or false).

So, let's compare the figure of 5000 "bride burnings" mentioned by Suketu Mehta to an actual number of 190. If the cruel Indians increase the deaths of women even by 10 times still the figure will not reach the claims made by him.

We do not blame Mr.Suketu Mehta. It's a chain of perpetual lies, which had infected him. This makes us conclude that so far as lying is concerned, the Indian Feminist literature is in no way inferior to the western feminist literature.

Now, SIF has given somewhat better news that just 190 women are burnt every year by husband/relatives for dowry or other reasons. If the claims by SIF are verified to be true, then we have a much better situation than the dismal situation painted by Suketu Mehta. This can of course disappoint many people, who will feel frustrated that they can no longer write stories and plays on burning women and get international awards.

Regarding the India Today Conclave topic on the bogus talk between Feminism and Machismo, Save Indian Family(SIF) believes that "power machismo" is extremely harmful to Indian men. We have seen enough number of Machismos getting irreversible nervous breakdown within months of a legal conflict with wife. We mentor men to call on their feminine side rather than stiffening themselves with ultramasculinity.

Finally, what about "groom burning" in India? Does it happen? We have found only one case of groom burning (till now) even though one SIF member "claims" that one-day his wife poured hot sambhar on his baldhead. (Groom burning audio).

Sumanth is specialist in Soft-Computing. He is also a researcher in the area of Cognitive Science, Complex Dynamical Systems, and computational sociology. He manages software projects for enterprise printers in an MNC firm. He blogs at SIF website.
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#1
Tony
April 19, 2006
01:18 AM

Sumanth, agreed that inflating numbers gets attention and funding but one has to agree that women by virtue of being physically weak are more prone to be predated upon than men.

#2
bevivek
URL
April 19, 2006
06:11 AM

Sumanth - Where does SIF get it's estimate of 150? I particularly liked the axiomatic nature of your statement, "Save Indian Family (SIF) puts the burning of wife by husband at a figure of 150 for dowry and also other reasons like anger, suspecting infidelity etc. "

From all that I have observed so far of SIF in blog action, I'm not inclined to take any of your statements at face value. If you have done a thorough investigation with a report that can bear the light of scrutiny bring it out and let's read it. Till then I'll stay with the official figures, thank you.

#3
temporal
URL
April 19, 2006
09:59 AM

numbers, numbers and more numbers

last i checked we are six billion plus and i have less than 23 girl-women friends...that is a blooming pity sir...i tell you...

no, no, M is very liberal and trusting kinda woman...and other than first screening rights she makes no other demands (more on this another time)

numbers - how deceiving they can be...who knows how many people an average person can get to meet in a lifetime...let me take a jab

people we smile and exchange hellos... hmmmmm...there is mrs. schmidtz next door....yes, yes the one who leaves blinds open while changing...one...then there are the odd drivers or two...nameless, almost body-less at the stop signal...say two per trip....that would make it 4 per day....so now the total is 5....at the office...well say ten?....total is now 15...aur kya?...do cyber friends acquaintances count?...another ten...total is 25

ok now let's play statistics...

70 years (i know some may want me to bite the dust sooner - but we are playing statistics here, remember?)..so 70 x 365 x 25 = 638,750 (ok ok be quite! i know there are leap years!)

638,750 souls that i have or may encounter in some fashion or another

now reality check...

P was divorced, F - divorced...aur kaun?...ah S is remarried --so by deduction she must be divorced ..that is three... and then there have been a few folks i know that should have divorced their lousy spouses...but that is my conjecture....ok let's throw them in also...say another ten?....the total is now 13...and if i include hear-says ... another 10 ... so 23 divorce cases... incidentally not one of them volunteered to the burning part... the most heat generated was about 2200 degrees (centigrade or fahrenheit does not matter) in debates and accusations hurled each other's way...

what did george bernard shaw said about statistics?

khair, so we have some numbers 23 and 638,750

does it come to .0036007 or my goodness! .00036007..now this is a some statistics i just pulled out

so where did i hear greenspan has retired and someone is temporarily warming his seat?

and who stole my hat?

#4
Tony
April 19, 2006
10:05 AM

In a nutshell: poppycock!

#5
have break
April 19, 2006
10:07 AM

SIF guys should take us to downtown seven 11 store for listening them...a cup of cofee or a drink...

SIF -- are you NGO or just shadow warriors???

#6
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:00 AM

If any one give me the record of any crime statastics , that last years bride burning is more than 150 , we will cahnge the same .

As per me among that the situation was :-

the question is unanswered :-

" If any one abuse your mother in the road what you will do ?"

The next question " When a dishonest daughter in law abuse your mother in your own house what you will do ?

No one burn a wife for dowry as by burning they can't get the dowry , hope logic does not work here ,

Where as the logic works , to save the streedahn and cheat the sister and daughter , they provoke and emotionally encourage them to put fire by self and earn the money by legal terrorism , but yes this is like a Suicide Bomb = Bride Burning .

#7
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:03 AM

Bride Burning = Sucide Bomb for Legal Terrorism .

What sumanth say about this ?

But history wittness , terrorist activity can't give the freedom , as recently Supreme court also says " All the death of a wife can't be treated as Dowry death "

#8
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:05 AM

Firstly, we will look at the definition of bride burning.

"In bride-burning, a husband or the family of the husband douses the man's wife with kerosene, gasoline, or other inflammable liquid, and sets the woman alight."
-

Sumanth once again you are wrong here ,

When ever any wife died by burnt , 304B is comes in picture as a automatic in line and all the husabnd family behind the bar , irrespective the burnning happend due to accident , or due to her own intention or doen by any third party .

#9
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:08 AM

Recntly I came accross a very intereting case .

A 498A girls mother had been burn alive by her own husabnd .

But no 304B to her husabnd , the same to thier son-in-law , who stay about 1500 km far away from delhi !!!

This not joke , this is reality .

So the rule is , husabnd is always at fault , if your in laws have good connection with police and laywer , if your mother in law sucided , you will be behind the bar to save gurd your father -in -law ...

#10
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:10 AM

a cup of cofee or a drink...


both will work , as today i promised , no bad word for bad people !!

#11
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:15 AM

Sumanth

If when I came from office and see my wife sleeping with a male postitute in the room ..

Last time you suggested that , do not do any thing , as if I do anything she will complin to police for dowry harrasement and 498a will be used .Better Help her to complete the job instead of burn her alive ?

Now last night she examined by doctor and say she is in AIDS .

If I burn her alive , I may save some more Innocent who had been attacked by AIDS.

If I Help her , a lot of people will die in AIDS in future also .

Would you suggest what option is better for me ?

#12
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:22 AM

temporal

Have you checked any time , how many terrorist in our country and what the percentage for that ( sorry do not include the legal terrorist ) .

So that may be the reson TADA/POTA had been changed ?

Am I right ?

Count the legal terrorist numbers in our society , which are one in every three house , yes ever one husabnd family against three are living in the fear of Legal Terrorist ( 498A ,304B).

Need some calcuartor ?

Crime is crime , the punishment should be as per crime , not by any assumption that all the 600 millions are rapist and all the 600 millions are abala nari .

Bechind every crime , there is a Modern Ravan and Modern Supernakha !!

#13
Swarup
URL
April 19, 2006
11:25 AM

"Sumanth - Where does SIF get it's estimate of 150?"

Definetly not generated by computer .

Want the answer ?

Go to police station and check the record , you will get the answer .

#14
Shamu
April 19, 2006
11:26 AM

Thought you promised your mother not to use bad language today- coffee not decaf enough or didnt chotu get your tea?

#15
temporal
URL
April 19, 2006
02:46 PM

Swarup:

legal terrorist?

come on....i thought u stood on the high moral ground...please don't stoop down to legal, illegal, semi-legal, para-legal, para-illegal, semipara-legal, swami-legal, mulla-legal, non-mulla-legal terrorists

they're all scary kinds and i dislike any-all kinds of them...and the worst kind is the poet-terrorist kind...stay away from them i tell you...or you will be tormented with their words that would be equivalent to destruction caused by ten kilo tons of nitrates...or roughly being crushed under the weight of 47,279 Oxford English Dictionary (the unabrdiged edition).

#16
Preeti
April 19, 2006
02:51 PM

Temporal

Do you think he understood that? is there any scope.

All he understands is 'woman bashing' talk. His fav topic

Period

#17
temporal
URL
April 19, 2006
03:12 PM

preeti:

(delivered in faux-english accent)

'frankly, my dear even the writer does not undersatnd half ot it!'

;)

#18
Tony
April 19, 2006
03:46 PM

70?? No way temporal. Dude I thought you were way younger than me or is it all hypothetical?

#19
bevivek
URL
April 19, 2006
11:50 PM

Swarup - In this post Sumanth (representing SIF) claims the number of 150 as bride burning stats. It is for the SIF to substantiate this number, by producing objective evidence. Your generous invitation, "Go to police station and check the record , you will get the answer ." is therefore not accepted. This post in fact was supposed to be Sumanth's 'proof'. We do not see any proof.

Wild accusations, rejecting official figures without producing credible counter evidence, labelling people as Surpanakas, treating feminists and feminism as a disease will not get you credibility.

Balanced, reasoned arguments produced in a form that can be scrutinised will.

#20
Preeti
April 20, 2006
12:04 AM

Vivek

You expect them to get statistics?

If statistics was so easy I would have got full marks in stats and thus featured in the merit list.

So much so for the pompous display of edu info abt him. Wonder if that is also a hoax just like their umpteen claims!!

He said he would "prove" it. Where is the proof? I dont see any derivations ,models, nothing.

If SIF did some ground work,show it to us.

#21
Aaman
URL
April 20, 2006
12:09 AM

pouring hot sambhar on his bald head - poor guy:) never mess with a bowl of hot sambhar:)

But, yes, where is the validation for the statistics you provide?

#22
temporal
URL
April 20, 2006
10:25 AM

tony:

the 70 is biblical ...three score and ten!

and with blanket generalizations like Bechind every crime , there is a Modern Ravan and Modern Supernakha !! who would blame me for feeling like a child or a geezer?...take your pick:)

#23
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
10:58 AM

The official figures are 7026 Dowry Deaths "REPORTED".

The dowry suicides are the maximum and that number is at least 5000.

That leaves 2026 to be accounted for murders by stabbing, hitting, poisoning, strangulation and by burning.

If 2026 women are burnt every year in India, then why do not media show these stories? We find media/TV channels being very eager to show even false dowry suicide cases.

I do not understand why media can prefer one set of stories over others? Media is in any case biased in favour of women(& their sufferings). Then, why we do not see bride burning stories in Media?

If you feel, you have a better breakup for these 7026 so called "dowry deaths", then you can submit that breakup.

#24
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
11:11 AM

Please tell me, is "male bashing" a fashion or not?

Please compare, the rate of suicide, the rate of murders, the rate of violent deaths for
a)men
b)women

Please use "official figures".

That will let you know, whether society is oppressing men or society is oppressing women.

If this continues, then a new born boy will look forwards to a much worse life than a girl. Even today, he has got a bad deal.

Now, if you feel "male bashing" and misandry in education is good for society, please go ahead and indulge in that. You will get a society full of criminals in next 15 years.

If "male bashing" does not stop, "women bashing" will only increase. We will make sure that women who drive men to suicide spend sufficient time behind bars.

It is just the begining for "gender equality".

#25
Aaman
URL
April 20, 2006
11:25 AM

Please provide your source for the number 150, irrespective of whether the media highlights these stories or not.

#26
Tony
April 20, 2006
11:26 AM

number of girls less than boys ratio stats should answer your argument

#27
anon too
April 20, 2006
11:41 AM

A copy paste of Sumanths chest beatings on april 11th..

Aaman,

Please arrange for a duel between me and anon.

". Last year, five thousand women were burnt alive because their families couldn't give the dowry their husbands' families demanded."
This written by Sumanth On Deepti Lambas artcle'When men are at the receiving end of a womans scorn'
on April11th at 10.08 a.m

This is a HOAX. This is a big Lie.
This is a big lie by Suketu Mehta.

If I can not prove it, then anyone can sue me under Section 500 of IPC meant for Defamation.

No arguments now. I will prove it statistically, logically, rationally.

Now, tell me, once I prove it, what will we get in return?

We do not want Symapathy and Lip Service.

We want an END to Hypocrisy (any hypocrisy).

Can Desicritics.org fight against Hypocrisy ?


--------------------------------------------
I will submit the proof in 7 days time.
I will take a break now.
I will also prove that this is a hypocrisy
meme.
--------------------------------------------

Anon:

Will you join SIF, if I prove that the above statement is a lie ?

I do not want you to be a masculist. You can fight against "any" Hypocrisy in Internet.

end of quote
-
-------------------------------------------------
Proof please.. sumanth..Hard facts..Like the ones quoted by Suketu Mehta.

If you cannot, then please retire with Grace.

#28
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
01:35 PM

Anon,

I have proved that much less than 5000 are "burnt alive".

Tony,

The girls are always born less than boys.
It is 94.5 girls per 100 boys(worldwide).

If female foeticide is happening in west and north India, that is because of

(1) Boys being considered more useful/exploitable by the society.

(2) The feeling in urban India that a girl will always be oppressed and she will always have a difficult life (as falsely presented in Media). Hence a girl brings worry and misery.

So, people who create alarmism contribute to "female foeticide". In stead of realising the circular effect, they indulge in further alarmism, which will fuel further female foeticide.

Aaman,

The bride burning (by husband) "for dowry" can be between 50 to 500 given the fact that 2026 (real+false) deaths are estimated to be due to murders(not suicides). We have put the figure at 190. That is our claim just the way Suketu Mehta made a claim. We have a right to make a claim in a small forum compared to Suketu Mehta who made a claim in a large forum.

From the official figures it is clear that Suketu Mehta's claim is far from truth. I have proved that the figure of 5000 is a hoax.

Now, we being mirror image of Feminists and alarmists, we make the claim of Bride burning to be 190. We do not want to take any moral high ground. Moral high ground does not save people/families. May be, we are lying just like feminists, because after all we are their mirror image and we draw inspiration from them.


---------------------

Btw, the only goal of SIF is to reach to more and more suffering families. So, whether people agree with us, or do not agree with us, whether they like us or dislike us, that does not have any significance for us.

---------------------

#29
anontoo
April 20, 2006
01:50 PM

'Btw, the only goal of SIF is to reach to more and more suffering families. So, whether people agree with us, or do not agree with us, whether they like us or dislike us, that does not have any significance for us.'

Then why are you here and have remained put for the whole month.. despite all manner of humiliation!!

Go where you think you can save others souls or yours as well.

You failed to plead your case..

It was just a meeooww attempt after a lions roar!

#30
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
02:03 PM

"Then why are you here and have remained put for the whole month.. despite all manner of humiliation!!"

Who said, we are humiliated? Your invectives were gifts to us, which we did not accept. So, they remain with you.

We will reach all places, where feminists are. After all,we are their mirror images.

There is another reason. The more equity oriented and principled a guy is, the more is his chance of being in false cases. We know many much guys are in DC. The dowry takers, cheats do not get into these cases.

#31
Aaman
URL
April 20, 2006
02:11 PM

We don't want to drive anyone away, but you weaken your cause by admitting you use a statistic that has no more validity than GWBush's WMD justifications

#32
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
02:16 PM

We have multiple NGOs in Delhi, Bangalore, Hyd, Mumbai, Pune, Jaipur, Chandigarh and also in US. We network among many distributed groups like us.

Many Advocates and retired High Court Judges are with us. Do not believe it, then watch this Video(130mb) in Telugu & English.

#33
498
April 20, 2006
02:17 PM

Sumanth(btw why do you have an identity crisis)

"The dowry takers, cheats do not get into these cases."


The dowry takers and cheats get refuge in SIF thats for sure. thats why.

#34
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
02:37 PM

Aaman,

The lies of feminists did not make them weak. Same way, Bush is still at large and getting stronger in spite of his bogus WMD claims. In fact, these two have gained a lot just by means of lies. Now, why should we give up that privileage?

Another angle is that, intellectuals are of not much of use to us. Some 100 people agreeing with us in internet do not translate to anything substantial. We can distribute 500 pamphlets near a court and convince 500 people in just a one hour. We meet the judges at will and discuss the issues. A Rs.700 advertisement in local newspaper makes us reach to some 40 thousand. A $200 advertisement in Rediff gives 1 lac impressions. Some of our members sometimes earn that amount in one hour.

We argue in internet only for net practice before the match with main stream feminists. We review our strategies, methods and arguments.

Frankly speaking, we have no cause, no end goal. The sufferings in this world will always be there, whatever improvements we achieve in this "animal farm".

#35
sumanth
URL
April 20, 2006
02:46 PM

Mr.498,

Then, why are you sleeping inside SIF?

Based on your statement, you must also be a dowry/sowry taker and cheat.

I asked you long back, why the hell your family give dowry(if any)? Is it for lifestyle?

If you want, we will also keep all the unscrupulous in SIF just the way feminist women organisations do. First go and ask feminist organisations why they are sheltering "terrorists". Once you get that answer, you can ask us any question.


#36
temporal
URL
April 20, 2006
02:54 PM

sumnath:


We will reach all places, where feminists are. After all,we are their mirror images.

such modesty is unbecoming! you and your group belongs to high heaven.


Digression for Comprehension 101

We argue in internet only for net practice before the match with main stream feminists.

wish your team heavenly success!

#37
498
April 20, 2006
03:06 PM

Sumanth

I had also told you and answered back that the concerned person did NOT give dowry. (what lifestyle are you taking abt). All yuo claims that sif gives shelter only to the innocent is bogus.

Dowry was demanded later ---that means after wedding...post wedding...shaadi ke baad. Am i not clear enough. This is used as a black mail too. And till date no dowry is given.But dowry was demanded, the victim was tortured and blackmailed by one of your own brothers. OK.


Such dowry demanders are hiding inside your group. OK

(Ever heard of multiple personality disorder...what will you call a person who does it deliberately like you all. )

Plus am not Mr...am Ms. Glad I did not sound like a feminist.

#38
Aaman
URL
April 20, 2006
03:06 PM

Pratyush has a good article on the upcoming tennis season if you need pointers:)

#39
498
April 20, 2006
03:10 PM

I also had told you in my previous comments" that I agree maybe feminists orgs may not be right"

But then likewise again you also do not have any right to claim that SIF gives shelter to innocents etc.

So mcuh so for your stats and data. Its gone for a TOSS. If the data was derived from these dowry takers hiding in your group(just like fem orgs), then even your data is a HOAX.

If you are a mirror image of fem orgs then your data is too a mirror image like theirs.


#40
temporal
URL
April 20, 2006
03:22 PM

aaman tennis pointers?

will that be 498-love?

#41
Neha
April 20, 2006
10:59 PM

nothing is equal for them.

#42
bevivek
URL
April 21, 2006
01:27 AM

Sumanth - All your numbers are estimates based on that killer phrase 'SIF investigations have shown'. Close down the CBI people, we have the SIF now. Whether it is the '5,000 dowry suicides' or '20,000 sowry related suicides' or '150 dowry burnings', all are estimates stated as fact. You use then these 'estimate-facts' and construct your proof. Using such means of proof I can prove anything.

The basic problem I have is in casting these issues as a men vs women thing. It denigrates the horror of the facts on either side. Dowry is not fighting against Sowry nor women's suicides against men's. The fact that Dachau killed more people than Auschwitz does not make Auschwitz a happier place to be in.

All are tragic and need to be addressed separately. If in your opinion Sowry death is becoming a big problem, bring out detail, publish a report using credible sources and use the media to highlight that reality. Plucking numbers out of thin air cheapens the tragedy.

#43
Santosh
April 21, 2006
01:43 AM

Use the info given by dowry demanders in his group to come up with stats . That will do. Authentic data.

Make your own foundation. 1)Now you cant even say that data was derived from sif, coz you have admitted that sif gives refuge to dowry demanders and mirror image theory, 2) you cant even use data given by NCW coz thats false as said by you only.

so what now. lets stick to what the general trend and believe is.

numbers....dowry....lust....greed for money....abusing women...Very diff to defend.

#44
Swarup
April 21, 2006
05:46 AM

numbers....dowry....lust....greed for money....abusing women...Very diff to defend.
- There is no point of any defend or loose , the awareness .

The theroy of the word DOWRY , todat legal terroist are hiding and a lot are here that they prefer to legal terrorism to earn the money in dishonest way , that is the reason this 498A , dv act .

Fools are fools only , animal are animal only , justyfying the cats and dogs life , refuse to take any work for self only earning money in the name that women are abala nari ... nothing but exposing the desire that " I will never earn money as per my hard work" , i want every thing at free without work .

This article expose those modern ravan and modern supernakaha family in our society who had taken the mask of modern sita family.

#45
Swarup
April 21, 2006
05:50 AM

As long as i know every week i got at least one call from different jurnalist , that can you give me a brid burning case ?

Sumanth , if the same is 150 , which i told less than that , every alternate day we must see one news in NDTV , they will not spare any one .

There is no relation between bride burnt and dowry , whaich people do not understand and try to hide behind the word to earn the sowry .

Bride Burnt= Sucide Bomb as i told before , in the process of legal terrorism .

Crime is crime , IPC have murder law , still you need 304B , 498A , Dv act ... good logic .

Let enjoy the legal trrroism and increse the crime against women stastics , presently too samll ..

#46
Swarup
April 21, 2006
05:53 AM

temporal
try some time to write bad english , you will understand , how difficult it is , good english writer does not mean that they have not used the 498A to earn the money dishonest way , and offcourse those good english writer are the main legal terrorist today .

#47
Swarup
April 21, 2006
05:57 AM

Some child killer should not be allowed to hide in this internate .

They justyfy even that child killing is their whole sale free lincence , do any one can say why ?

As those child can't write good english ?

Indian law are not crime based , it is on the assumption , still you do not understand ?

Strong dought , your brain is a human or you have allready reached to 22nd century ?

#48
Swarup
April 21, 2006
06:05 AM

498
you are the main legal terrorist ( that is the reason hiding, as criminal hide thier indenty to do the legal terrorism ) who are doing this and supreme court had given the direction towards the people like you only , who feels the underwear of the husabnd is a dowry and they have all the right to ask out of house "husabnds age old parents and sister" to grab thier money as "Sowry " ?

Why you do not say waht is sowry and streedhan or you also want to cheat your dughter and sister for her streedhan and hide behind the word dowry ?

I say only greedy , money minded dishonest people hide behind the dowrd "dowry" and earn the money dishonest way .

When the dispute come your husabnd under wear became dowry , and at the time of marrige you want to purcahse a male posititute by paying bribe ?

Why you do not get your husabnd as per your capability ?

Why your parents want a husabnd for you by paying the bribe ?

This is nothing but cheating and considering the sister and daughter as a burden .

Let allow your sister or daughter own right as a child , and allow them to chosse thier husabnd as per teir capability , if you really want to say you want to resolve the your so called dowry problem , but a criminal alw 498A is nothing but a stupid law based on the assumption , that is the reaosn TADA/POTA hope was a better law than 498A .

#49
Swarup
April 21, 2006
06:07 AM

Preeti
What do you mean by women ?

Will you clarify ?

Is women means only a wife and dishonest daughter in law ?

#50
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:10 AM

Neha
nothing is equal for them.


you are 100% right , as you only want this , otherwise why this 498A , dv act to be made ?

Is this called equality , where the whole sale free lincence to wife and punihment not only husabnd all thier realtive also in the name of so called verbal abuse , mental harrasement , economical abuse ?

What more when people like you can justify that child killing your on birth right , what more expect form such people ?

#51
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:13 AM

Please tell me, is "male bashing" a fashion or not?"

- sumanth , this they have to do to earn the Bhart ratna award .

You might have not sen those feminist doctor , taking award form president and killing the child at thier clinic ( they taken the award as they calim they save women and child ) .

That is the reason , I say Is their any Modern Laxman or Only modern Ravan are thier ?

#52
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:25 AM

498

your coment shows that you are really a dumb and got so much blind for the shake of money and the SIF guys refuse to give you the money!!

"But then likewise again you also do not have any right to claim that SIF gives shelter to innocents etc."

We will make all those 498a family cry like you the way you are doing today ( as criminal case is not joke or ordering PIZZA ) ,

- is it very enjoyable , hope i am right ,

- you are enjoying your great life at national highway instead of in a husabnd house .. as you always used to say before SIF that ...husabnd ..my foot ...will teach him a lesson .... etc...

No one in this countery can save a husabnd irrespective he does crime or his wife does crime .

First husabnd have to go to jail , jobless will be husband only not the wife .

What SIF volenters does , Husabnd should not suicide , they must face the reality and should not come under the blackamilling tactics after 498a , yes you are feeling the heat , as you thought ,

-that today you will file a 498a ,
- tomorrow police will come and arrest your husabnd ,
-next day you will ask 50 lacks , and that stupid will come to you and say
-forgiveeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, take this money and enjoy with your boy friends and we will find another bakra .

SIF is a voice which starts from your bed room itslef , that is SIF , SIF will not tolerate the whole sale sucide of Indian husabnd in the hand of modern supernakha and modern Ravna ..okkkkkkkk.

To save indian husabnd and thier age old parents , pregent sister , their child , SIF volenters can go any extent .. take it grantee , we will kill those legal terrorist of our society .. if you have guts come out , instead of hiding , we will paste the SIF poster in your back .. take it grantee ....come on hiding criminal !!!!

#53
apu
URL
April 21, 2006
06:32 AM

Hi Aaman, Desicritics started off with a lot of good work, but in the last one month, the rantings of SIF are making for very tedious reading. Its good to allow freedom of expression, but not in cases where the posters run amok posting the same thing a 100 times over. Please do consider whether you are driving readers away!

#54
Wasif
URL
April 21, 2006
06:34 AM

Bevivek, Amaan and all,

The main point of debate was of "5000 bride burning cases" every year as quoted by Suketu Mehta. He addressed the conclave without knowing the real facts. IPC 304B covers dowry death and "any unnatural death of wife within 7 years of marriage is presumed to be dowry death"...these deaths can happen due to various causes suicide, accident,murder(not bride burning)...and of course bride burning. 2004 crime bureau data says 7026 dowry deaths, it covers all the above causes, there is no segregation of Bride Burning and the rest. How the hell did Mr. Suketu get this figure of 5000....please show us where this specific figure of bride burning is reported....he conveniently labled dowry deaths to bride burning. By this very logic and statistics his claim is unfounded and should be rejected. The two articles of Sumanth on dowry deaths and bride burning are the realistic break up of the figure of 7026 cases.

Why did Suketu/Feminazies assume that 71% of dowry death cases are bride burning cases and are sensationalising it across the globe ?...Do you find this assumption logical.....I don't.

#55
Swarup
April 21, 2006
06:37 AM

bevivk

your coment "-

"Close down the CBI people, we have the SIF now."

- ask those 498a family and girls , they will tell you the reality that they does not brother CBI also as they can bribe them , only SIF is the Problem , as they teach how to fight against reality , how to live a life without legal wife after 498a

-" we will go to jail if we have done crime , but not come under blackamilling and extrotion of money business by people like you , we will fight against those legal terrorist , as after death we are not going to take our money with us , we will put that in garbage and put fire on those our hard earned money .., after our death take those ash from their and give to your boyfriends , but not now ",
- today 498a family's are just hiding their face , after SIF volenters expose them .

Just wait and watch , this is just start , husabnd had been beaten by thier wife form the old ages ,
but Star News shows the courage to show in public in 2006 ..

just wait and watch , you will understadn what is real SIF and how they teach a leasson to those BIF .

Yes , we indian husabnd are ready to became weaker sex , come on... rape us , abuse us , throw in dirty grabage , as husabnd in 21st century to be treated like that only ..
Just wait and see ....Modern Ravan or Modern Laxman or Modern Supernakha ?

Choice is yours !!!!!!

#56
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:44 AM

Wasif

Actually that is the reality ;-

5000 briode burning means every day atleast 18 to 20 .

And you think , our NDTV like news channel will keep mum ?

Just think every day 18 to 20 bride burnt and every one sleeping ,waht your practical sensense say ?
The situation is , " if a wife goes more than three time to tiolet , waht cound be the reason behind that ??"

And every day more than 18 or 20 brid burnt , and no one come to know ....

Yes a lier have to lie several times , to justyfy the same , and the same thing happening today also in this blog

"every death of a wife termed as dowry death , and get a whole sale free lincence to kill the Indian husabnds .....and earn the money in dishonest way .. that is the reason supreme court says - Stop this legal terrisom .

At least if some one can't stop that , they does not have any right to ask others waht is SIF doing .

SIF will stop automatically the day this terrorist activity will stop in india and the LAW will be made on the basis of some assumption instead of crime based .

#57
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:46 AM

This only you all want ?

#58
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:49 AM

Wasif

"How the hell did Mr. Suketu get this figure of 5000....please show us where this specific figure of bride burning is reported...."

Mr. Suketu , will say the data provided by SIF ... am I right ?
or

Some hiding gosht tell them every day 18 to 20 bride burnt in india !!!!!!!!!!!

#59
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:55 AM

apu
check the deshi critics data of total no of readers ( techonelogy gives that fecility ) .

yes today a lot of legal terrorist are feeling the heat as their job became very very difficult , how to get the money by dishonest way ...

On the other hand a lot of people every day check the deshicritics , like a morning medicine for thier mother and sister .

Criminal is criminal , and BIF is BIF , your coment is the evendece for that , if you can;t digest the truth , boomit it .. wil you fell better , instead of teaching amman waht he have to do ...

Your bribe system works in the news channel like NDTV , where from the mornign to night , Jan to dec only same thing 5000 bride burnt , so send all the husabnd behind the bar along with thier mother and sister ... in internate your bribe system does not work , hope you understand .

#60
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
06:59 AM

"driving readers away!"
apu

hiding criminal away as they are getting caught red handed !!!

it is upto you to decided , you are a readers or legal terrorist ?
Choice is yours , as supreme court says " Stop Legal terrorism "

or
Let go tomorrow and stop the supreme court work , no problem ...as your feminst say truth and supreme court lie .. am i right ?

#61
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
07:06 AM

Some one say :- do you know who ? ust cheke in internate , alternate job instead of going to National highway , and troturter the animal in the name of love :

"I am an animal-lover"

- Yes she is right , as she treat all the husabnds family as animal only .. am i right my dear ?

Do not worry , stop this one sided lie and stop the legal terrorism otherwise , you have to love only animal only , as human will not be there , as allready we do not find any modern laxman , we find only ravan ....

#62
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
07:10 AM

apu

check this
This blog has written by a feminist on dowry. Read it and you will know
how feminist write.
http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=48118

This gives you a lot of entertainment , am i right ?

Whole sale free lincence with out taking any responsibility , only grab the money by hiding behind the word dowry and cheat your own sister , daughter stree dhan , sowry !!!!

#63
swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
07:18 AM


apu , for your enjoyment and worth to read as you like :-

This my was question to her :-

Why your parents does not allow you to chose yuour husabnd by your own capability ?

Why they want to purchase a male postitute for you ?

Are railway howker , jobless poor guy vanish from our society ?

if a good earning guy can marry a poor village girls , waht is the problem to you to go to a village and marry a village guy ?

Ask your parents and your self , hide behind the word dowry , this shows your money minded thinking and your terma a realtionship with the money , but nember after death your are not going to take your money with you , come out from this money minded thinking realtionhsip and go to village hope you will get a lot of honest guy who will marry without your so called dowry , as you can't see waht is streedhan , waht is sowry .. for you ever think dowry ..

Yes offcourse she have to term it as a "Spam " and delete it .

#64
Swarup
April 21, 2006
07:48 AM

498

your coment :-

"I had also told you and answered back that the concerned person did NOT give dowry"

- Yes in the court room , all the streedhan had been submitted and the valuation had been done , and the same comes out worth of Rs. 20,000/- which is less than the husbands one month salary >

Now your story i will expose the last think happened , as you are hiding :-

"Recently one guy father in law , a well known police officer tried
hard to send them and cancel thier bail , but a young lady laywer
fight like a fire band with high court judges and they all got the
bail .

His father -in -law is going to mad , that how this can happen , he
had send so many people behind the bar , but when comes to his own
case , his son-in-law got the bail without arrest .

This SIF tranning.

Maximum cases our male laywer also does not fight with the judges ,
as they feel this will give a bad name to them and in future case he
will be in trouble and judges also take that as a week point of the
laywers .

This is your story my dear 498 , as you calim your husabnd does not taken dowry during marrige , he ask after marrige , do you really know waht is called dowry ?

Why in the IPC blackmailling , extrotion of money law's are there ?

Why you have to file your complin only in 498A ? As this law does not require any evidence , only your own statement is sufficient ?
Stop this money earnign busisness through legal terrorism , yes SIF activity will teach you a lesson the way the Police officer got .

#65
Wasif
URL
April 21, 2006
07:49 AM

Temporal,

Just FYI divorce rate in India is quoted to be 11 per 1000.....which comes out to 1.1%
(Source: NDTV debate on institution of marrige dated April 8,2006 in evening..what is their source, plz ask them)

#66
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
07:53 AM

498
your coment :-

"I also had told you in my previous comments" that I agree maybe feminists orgs may not be right"

- show me how many times you try to say the same thing to them instead of SIF volenters ?
or
You have given the whole sale free lincence to them , so you try to stop the SIf voice instead of those feminsit ?

SIF born only one years back ,the are there more than 30 years , how amny time you had rised your voice there ?

#67
Swarup
URL
April 21, 2006
07:56 AM

wasif

your coment ;
Just FYI divorce rate in India is quoted to be 11 per 1000.....which comes out to 1.1%

they have all the whole sale free lincence for saying any thing , only all the restriction for SIF.

You do not know ?

Because they are feminist and some time my boss , says , swarup frankly speaking , " mera undar dam nehi hai to fight aginst bad women "

#68
temporal
URL
April 21, 2006
09:36 AM

Bette Lynch Husted

The Mother as Life Boat

Dust devils whirling toward black holes, maelstrom pulling you down, bones
drowning in fire: stuff of nightmare. Can you rise toward some bright
icicle dawn? Will you find this frail ark? Earthbound, mortal, my blunt hand
reaches for purchase, a holdfast: I would keep, for your sake,
everything. Sunrise at Mirror Lake. Cottonwood, hawk's feather. Black dog.
Three a.m. phone calls. Your locked door. I would give birth again.



#69
sumanth
URL
April 21, 2006
11:22 AM

Bevivek,

What is a credible source?

Every credible source has Feminists sitting inside it. These include Amnesty Internationals and UN.

What is media?

It is made up of a bunch of companies, who claim that they have a sole right to truth and nobody must question them(media).

-----------------
We have a much bigger problem with Media than with judiciary or 498a or feminists.
-----------------

Media twists and distorts truth. So, we in SIF makes sure to bomabard the journalists with as many mails as possible so that they remain dysfunctional. Media is one of the greatest evils in this country today.

We at least give some feedback to politicians and we track their performance. But, the media is completely beyond feedback.

Most journalists are brainwashed with pseudo-liberal literature. That makes them a grandiose feeling that they are changing the world. So, in stead of giving facts, these "bastards" in media start twisting and turning facts to "improve" the society.

Unfortunately, these third rate fellows who get into journalism cause more damage to society than the politicians, police etc.

For example, the alarmism in media about "sufferings of women" makes people feel that girl suffers and brings sufferings. Hence they are indulging in female foeticide.

---------------------------------
I still remember in early 80s, Indian Media used to publish highly "sensual" stories on real incidents of "RAPE" just to sell newspapers.

I do not know, how many rapists these morons must have created.
---------------------------------

#70
Aaman
URL
April 21, 2006
12:01 PM

Apu, I totally agree, and will start cleaning the stables if the same stuff is posted repetitively

#71
bevivek
URL
April 21, 2006
12:04 PM

Sumanth - Female foeticide is a cultural disease and is not a media creation. It is due our traditional view of women as liabilities, as paraya dhan, as dross. This may be accentuated by our new crass consumerism but is basically a derivative of old cultural mores. To label this as a media creation is absurd.

I'm afraid that rather than addressing issues I (and others) have posed, you continue to indulge in rhetoric and paranoia. You see conspiracies everywhere. And since all these agencies such as UN and media are 'infected' by feminists, there are no credible data sources and you manufacture your own facts to offset their 'misinformation'. I'm sure it may seem logical to you but it sure seems like paranoia to me.

There may be morons in the media but there are also damn bright people. And remember, people with questions are not necessarily feminists.

#72
Woman
April 21, 2006
08:08 PM

Swarup

If you have so much problem with your wife and if she has wronged you then Lets then hear her side of the story as well.

Get her here and let her speak too. CONFRONTATION.

You harp so much that you were the innocent kid on the block. Ok

Lets hear her side too and we will see what is actually see the truth. Forget the the law, the press, the media, the police..all are biased,OK.

Since you chose this forum to make people & guys aware of the misuse of the laws...then lets use this very forum to make us more aware to hear & know your wife's version.

Call her.

Give me her number, I will call her and check it out with her too.

Thats a challenge to you.

Now do not say you do not have her contact, what I read about you, you do have court cases going on and know all her whereabouts.

Get her hear too. Lets all hear and decide.

Who is real and who is pretending.

#73
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
02:09 AM

Woman
You know very well , I love personnel attack .

Secondly i do not have any problem with my wife , she is my sweet heart and before marriage we knows each and every part of our life including my dadi ( of course she bribed her also ).

Only thing , if she had done the crime , she have to go to jail , if i have done any crime i will go to jail , as criminal case for punishment , not for earning the money .

I do not know waht she will do if i go to jail , but take it grantee , if she go to jail , I will wait for her , the day she will come out from the jail, and she will find the first person "Swarup " out side the jail.

yes if she does again crime , I will send again to her in jail .. or if she does not do any crime , fine , no problem .

On the other hand , if she want to come any place , at any location , I do not have any problem , I am always there , because my bank statement will tell how much money her father had taken , Marrige hall booking and expenses including the pandit tips , who had paid?
where the first child vanish , how the second child had been saved ..etc all are there , and all the documentrary evidence including marraige CD .

Now hiding host , are the same my sweet heart ?

Why you are hiding , come out , delhi police will not arrest you , as I have allready asked mahesh to get your bail , but i can't grantee waht the judge will do with you , as the documentry evidence can't lie , including your sister letter , here she clearly mentioned , that she does two times sex with her husabnd in four months as she can't forget her boyfriends ( and instruction to you to do the same ) .. you know very well and the same letter allready given to your father in front of you only to expose your sister activity .

Because swarup hate criminals , let be my realtive or your realtive , as criminal is criminal and they should be punished .

At any place you can come with your evidence , always well come my darling !!

Criminal hide thier face , not the honest people , you decided waht you are ?

#74
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
02:15 AM

Darling , last one years , delhi police had tried three times to call you , you had allready hiding , better you come forward and tell your no. to every one , at least delhi police will get the same easily .

Secondly , darling , I told you hang me death if I have done any crime , but do not use the word dowry , as you know very well till date forget any gift , not a glass of water i have taken form your parent house , this is swarup , born only one in millions .. yes very crazy and love you so much , that never ever brother who is your sister and who is your mother before marrige !!

#75
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
02:18 AM

Give me her number, I will call her and check it out with her too.

Thats a challenge to you.
-

Swarup no available for whole world , sorry darling , I am not another stupid , that i will mention your no and you will put a defemation case against me , you can get the no and call any time , accepted the challenge , but not in hiding mode , okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Allready you had tried the same in SIF group , In jago India group and Bharat mata group .. call all your modern ravan , swarup alone is sufficient , let decided if you have doen crime you should go to jail and if i have done crime i will go to jail , and if we both have done crime we both will go to jail ..come on...

#76
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
02:31 AM

Forget the the law, the press, the media, the police..all are biased,OK.


Woman , here is the problem , you think about your self , but swarup never ever think for himself .

This LAWs are family killer , this LAWS are for blackmailling and extortion of money , this laws are responsible for incresing the crime in our society ... and rest all you mentined are the hiding face of those terrorist in the name of feminism !!!!!

This is the difference between you nd me darling . You live for your self , swarup live for otherself ....

At any cost i will not tolerate any husabnds sucide in the hand of thier wives ..

Check today in delhi 5 498A girls make sucide to avoid the punishment for filling a false 498A
http://www.indiatalking.com/blog/swarup



#77
Woman
April 22, 2006
04:02 AM

"Now hiding host , are the same my sweet heart ?
Why you are hiding , come out , delhi police will not arrest you"

Aaman is that for you or someone else?

#78
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
04:06 AM

"There may be morons in the media but there are also damn bright people. And remember, people with questions are not necessarily feminists."

This not only in media , this is every where , but the reality is they rule the same and make blind to others and does not show the reality .

The question is how they take the mask , instead of giving any solution , if any one really want to stop the child killing , the same can't achieve by giving the whole sale free lincence to allow the child or Danching at India gate .

Which a lot of people does not understand , but Star News , Sahara samachar understand and they do their job .. more than 100 feminist doctors caught red handed .

At last , Indian parents consider thier sister and daughter as a burdan and try to hide behind the word so called "dowry ".

This article to open the eyes and expect that those people should consider thier sister or daughter as a responsibility the way they treat thier son and brother , then all the problem will be solved .

Sucide statstics gives the exact picture , as their you can't twist as for entering the same you need a nead body .

But reality is the same had been ignored and our LAW maker had been diverted from the main issue , why ?

Can any one explain ? take the sucide stastics and take the action accordingly .

Once again , TADA/POTA can be changed , but 498A , DV act to be stay as it is , and there should be any punishent for making false case , can any one explain ?

At last once again I have to repeat :-
Money can't buy you love. - Legal Terrorism In India .
http://moviemaza.com/article438651.html
"An estimated 95% of the Story received by the Save Indian Family Yahoo Group ( SFI)in recent times have been from the IIT , IIM , IT and well educated People who believes in hard working , honesty and self respecting and well settled in their Carrier .

In their wildest dream also they and their age old Parents and Pregent Sister never ever thought , that they will one day visit a court room or Police Station , but in reality , today their day start after visiting the Court Room or Police Station ."

That is the reason TADA/POTA changed but 498a and Dv act can't be touched .

#79
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
04:12 AM

No another woman , this is not Aamman , she is my respected wife only .

Amman you can ask her to came at any saterday at delhi court at 4.00 P.M. along with her all modern Ravans gang , as I am coming back to delhi again next month onwards .

#80
Woman
April 22, 2006
04:24 AM

So this is a communication base for dowry takers!

What with swarup and rest passing their messages here and there.

#81
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
04:41 AM

Sumanth

I rember the day when people started abuse you , as you raised the voice , if you rembember my discussion with you .

Before marrige , Boy speaks and Girls obey.
After marrige , Wife speaks and Husband obey.
After child , both speaks and Neighbers obey .

This is the reality , if any one dare to not follow that is called going against the nature , and if any one try to go against nature , have to face the reality .

Same thing happening with Indian feminist , they want every thing without responsibility and the laws and misguided data , like so called 498A , D v act , actually draging them into the dirty well , if some one lost every thing , waht for he will keep quite ?

Criminal case is not a JOKE or ordering PIZZA , any dispute between a mother -in -law Vs. Daughter in law or any dispute between a Husabnd vs wife can't be dealth with one sided criminal law and to be termed as Dowry harrasement .

As a result , today People feel more logic in SIF voice than NCW voice .

Yes now one weapen they are using , SIF use harsh word , as they want that SIF should use soft words for a " Postitute " , then only they will not be termed as Anti-women , am I right Sumanth ?.

Such certificate at least swarup do not want , that use soft word for " Postitute " and earn the certificate , I do not want any certificate from Bindra karte or Indra jai Singh type people who voice for BIF.

Let them use the soft words for them and earn the certificate , not swarup ,

Swarup will not tolerate any abuse of our age old parents , sister ,any sucide of a Husabnds in the hand of thier wife , if a husabnd had done crime hang the husabnd , but no relative to be draged , if a husabnd does not protect his wife from harrasement , he should be hanged , not his realative , then we will see how many false 498A filed for Blackamilling or extrotion of money .

#82
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
04:49 AM

another women

your coment :-
So this is a communication base for dowry takers!

Correction :

"This is a communication base for Sowry takers!"

As they had allready failed at Police station and court , came here for asking sowry .

Check the coment from start of A Women , how they started demanding Sowry from swarup , giving threat, give Sowry other wise they will stop the voice of swarup . ( And for your kind information this is not first time , they have done it regularly , when they see that they have got exposed , have you seen last night , a lady caught red handed by delhi police for using minor child as a postitute , and when the police came , she tear her cloth and sought taht people entered her house to rape her ).

But swarup is not a hiding indentity , that is the problem for you as well as your another partneer .




#83
Swarup
URL
April 22, 2006
05:38 AM

"I'm afraid that rather than addressing issues--"

Bevivek , the real issue and solution , if you really want to save the child .

Check this :- people had allready started working instead of dancing at India gate , check the Star news , Sahara TV , you will get the answer , more than 100 feminist doctors had been caught red handed for killing the child like a " Machhar"
http://www.indiatalking.com/blog/swarup/2267/
Sunday, March 5, 2006 - "Beti Bachaao" (Save Daughter) - Saturday Evening Party at India Gate- New Delhi

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