Desicritics Comments on Dubai Ports Deal Shines Light on Bigotry

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:52 EST

WASHINGTON -- In a bold rebuke of President Bush, Republicans in Congress joined Democrats in taking the first significant step to reverse a Dubai company's takeover of management of operations at five U.S. ports, putting White House efforts to rescue the deal in serious jeopardy. "Notwithstanding any other provision of law or any prior action," the measure says, the acquisition by DP World of P&O's U.S. facilities "is hereby prohibited and shall have no effect." Looks like all that stands between principles of free trade and bigotry is Mr. Bush's threat of a veto. Sigh! Adam Smith must be rolling in his grave today.

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:26:38 EST

"You have admitted above to not having visited Europe, so know not of the experience of which you talk." Now where did I admit that? I've been to Europe, albeit as a visitor and not to work and that is why I gave you the example of my friend who works and lives in Europe because it was more pertinent to our discussion rather than my experience as a tourist.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:41:32 EST

Anil: Obviously a first-hand account has slightly more credibility than "I have a friend...". And: P&O (a British company) controls the US ports in question. P&O also have seven ports in Europe. No objection has been raised in Europe (as far as I'm aware) towards Dubai Port's acquisition of P&O. Make of it what you will.

Comment by Anil

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:34:55 EST

neither viewpoint is more or less valid.

Yes, but that is according to your viewpoint ;)

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:31:55 EST

Sorry, not a criticism of your credibility, Anil. Merely to (clumsily) demonstrate that you and Mr Chowdhry have opposing views on this matter, and that neither viewpoint is more or less valid.

Comment by Anil

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:20:41 EST

I shall attribute the same credibility to your "German friend" as I do to "Anil".

Woah, that hurts.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:12:49 EST

The US is a melting pot of cultures because it is by its very nature a nation of immigrants. That Europe is not so is not necessarily indicative of racism. However, for what it's worth, I think you shall find that the US, UK, France and Germany have comparable levels of resident foreign born nationals. Increasing globalisation is causing problems in the IT, customer service and manufacturing sectors in Europe. In your rush to depict Europe as barbarians, do not forget the disquiet in the US about the very same challenges faced by the US. It is a common misconception that France banned Muslim headscarves and Sikh turbans. France actually banned conspicuous religious symbols, including, but not limited to: headscarves, turbans, skullcaps and conspicuous crucifixes. To depict the ban as racist would ignore France's prized secularist history. Indeed, chcolates depicting Saint Nicholas were banned under this law. I shall attribute the same credibility to your "German friend" as I do to "Anil". You have admitted above to not having visited Europe, so know not of the experience of which you talk. If, however, you would like to make broad statements, based on my "experience" of US attitude towards racial segregation, universal healthcare, welfare, homosexuality, Darwinism, Iraq, the environment, and the seperation between church and state - to name a few - I prefer Europe. So let's agree to disagree.

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:14:39 EST

Lopsy : It is obvious that you and I have different opinions about Europe and the United States. In my view, while both Europe and United States have had a stained past - US has done much more to make up for it than Europe has ever tried. US as a whole is much more receptive to immigrants and people of other races and that is simply an accepted fact - support for which can be found in the labs, schools and offices across the US. Apart from UK, Europe is not exactly a melting pot of cultures, is it (and that is why I use the term mainland Europe)? You may bury your head in the sand but the fact remains that Europe is a rapidly declining power on the world stage which can be attributed in no small part to its failure to come to terms with a globalized and flat world and its fear of people from other cultures overrunning its own. This is precisely the reason for Europeans blocking the entry of Turkey into EU, for "three nations" that you mention throwing a fit over Mittal's takeover attempt, for France trying to ban Muslim headscarves and Sikh turbans. I have a friend who lives and works in Germany and is practically a German citizen and everytime he visits US, he is wistful seeing the rights and freedoms of immigrants in the US. I think it is a fool's errand to try and convince you of the upper hand of American attitude towards globalization, race and free trade compared to Europe and bottom line for me is that based on my experience, I am glad that I moved to the US rather than mainland Europe.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:55:43 EST

Are you going to address my points? Or will you continue to make vague, unsubstantiated accusations while moving the goal posts? The article you linked address racism at football games. Are you aware that fans who participate in the chanting are prosecuted? Are you labelling the entrie EU population of 450m as racist, bigoted, xenophobes based on the actions of a few hundred? According to your line of reasoning, it follows that the US is a country of racist homophobes!

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:51:29 EST

Lopsky : Here's something that you might want to chew upon. While we are at it - I'd also like to know which European country makes you a de-facto citizen of that country just by the virtue of being born there?

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:27:49 EST

And if we're going to be dredging up the past, recall the roots of the country we now know as the United States.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:26:13 EST

Chowdhry: There are far too many examples for my assertion that Europe is far worse than the US when it comes to supporting free trade. Do you have any in mind? Would you care to provide some, rather than waving your arms about? Would you care to comment on Chapter 11 protection for US airlines? Anyway, I digress. Your article is not about free trade. Protectionism is not bigotism. Your article accuses Europe of being bigoted, compared to the "virtuous" America. You have yet to provide evidence of this.

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:59:18 EST

Anil: Since I've never visited those states I will have to defer to your personal experience.

Comment by Anil

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:34:40 EST

I lived in Boston(cambridge) which I think is the most friendly city in the world. But I have travelled across Red America(particulary the Dakotas, Utah and Tennasse). Believe me, I have never felt so unwelcome anywhere in the world.

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:29:37 EST

Anil : Did you really live in the Middle America or is this coming from hearsay? Having lived in the mid-west all through my time in the US - I'd say that I've not seen a friendlier group of people so I find your assertion hard to believe. I do concede that a lot of resentment against free trade in Europe is politically motivated which is wrong and sad because the Europeans - when they were benefitting from free trade were all for it but now when the developing nations are in a position to claim their share of the pie, the Europeans are sulking!

Comment by Anil

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:22:51 EST

@As some one who has lived in both US and Europe(UK and France) I can assure you that Europe is far less xenophobic than the US(atleast the middle America). I whole heartedly agree that you cannot term whole of Europe as xenophobic based on the actions of few nations. Remember EU is a union of 25 nations. Most of Mr.Mittal's assets are in the EU. As for free trade, most Europeans are socialists and most of the opposition to foreign companies(Pepsi, Mittal steel etc) is ideological than anything else. Particularly in France where politicians pander to every whim of the trade unions, the opposition to Mittal deal is just a ploy to retain the vote base just like the Indian politicos who oppose disinvestment. Nothing more and nothing less.

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:09:24 EST

Lopsky: There are far too many examples for my assertion that Europe is far worse than the US when it comes to supporting free trade. I suggest that you subscribe to The Economist. It is published from Europe and it lays bare the reluctance of Europe to put its money where its mouth is when it comes to free trade.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:42:29 EST

Your opinion piece, is, I belive, a baseless anti-European rant. Like Arcelor, the "Polish plumber" incident is only indicative of French opinions. Not European. Indeed, in the very article you cite, Frits Bolkestein and Pascal Lamy - EU trade officials - express support for Poland. Contrary to your baseless assertions, I can deny Europe-wide "xenophobia", and am. However, you haven't responded to my central point. How can you label Europe as "xenophonic" based on the actions of France, Luxembourg and Belgium? Chowdhry (on free trade & globalisation): "Americans can usually be counted to come through and that's something you can never say about the Europeans." The US on cotton: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3662183.stm The US on steel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_steel_tariff_2002 I'm not claiming that the EU is perfect. Far from it. Both (unfairly) subsidise their farmers and manufacturers. But it is wrong to claim that the EU is compratively worse in this area. They both have agricultural subsidies. They both have export subsidies. They both limit imports.

Comment by Lakshmikanth

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:57:59 EST

me too!! me too!!!

Comment by Vikas Chowdhry

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:07:52 EST

F. Lopsky: "Both the US and Europe have done things that neither should be proud of." You are right about that but you certainly cannot deny the xenophobia in Europe about not only non-European countries but an intra-European xenophobia as well. Who can forget the "Curious incident of the Polish Plumber"? (refresh you memory here and here). Is the US Congress beyond reproach? No! But when it comes to supporting the policies of free trade and globalization, the Americans can usually be counted to come through and that's something you can never say about the Europeans. PS: I'd also like to know about what my article is?

Comment by Aaman

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:59:29 EST

And what is it?

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:22:35 EST

It matters not one iota that CNOOC's withdrawl was voluntary. That congress saw fit to oppose the move because of CNOOC's Chinese ownership exposes Mr Chowdhry's article for what it is.

Comment by Kush Tandon

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:25:50 EST

"Elected representatives of the US people have, however, have successfully blocked a Chinese bid for the US firm Unocal, citing "national security" reasons.' Not really. The Chinese National Oil Company itself pulled out of the bidding process. Quite a few oil companies (independents) opearting in US are foreign-owned. Nobody blocked them. Congress made a lot of noise - just noise but nothing really happened.

Comment by F. Lopsy

Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:00:12 EST

Your central point is valid. It is a view shared by commentators in the UK and many Europeans (including this one). However, only Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Arcelor have expressed opposition to the bid. Hardly the whole of Europe. Accusing the European people as "xenophobic" based on this "evidence" would be akin to describing Islam as "evil" based on the actions of a minority. Elected representatives of the US people have, however, have successfully blocked a Chinese bid for the US firm Unocal, citing "national security" reasons. In what respect does the Unocal bid differ from the Arcelor bid? And let us not in our eagerness to denounce Europe forget US mistakes, past and present. Both the US and Europe have done things that neither should be proud of.

Comment by James Fox

Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:51:04 EST

This is an interesting slant on things, but I'd like to point out that the vast bulk of commentary on this issue from the US, from congress, and from the US press, has been overwhelmingly bigoted and racist, in general making the assumption that any Arab group is either terrorist or terrorism supporters. President Bush's lack of bigotry on this issue is very much the minority in the US. Therefore. I'd say this article is more anti-European distortion, than insightful.